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gyro

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2004-02-07 04:08 in General Discussion
I want to build a 2-wheel self balancing robot with the tab sumo bot kit that
has a built in bs2. Does anybody know of a cheap gyro to use and any links to
other pages that pertain to balancing robots.


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Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-02-04 03:12
    I've had good results using the iMEMS angular rate sensors from Analog
    Devices ( www.analog.com ). These IC's are the most compact i've found, and
    are well under $50 a piece; however, the pin configuration is a bit
    cumbersome for one-off applications. If you don't want to bother with
    making your own interface circuit, you might want to look at some of the RC
    helicopter gyros. Perhaps try www.towerhobbies.com or something similar.

    Regards,
    Christian Wentz

    >From: Kyle Cooper <crazykurby@y...>
    >Reply-To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    >To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    >Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] gyro
    >Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:15:55 -0800 (PST)
    >
    >I want to build a 2-wheel self balancing robot with the tab sumo bot kit
    >that has a built in bs2. Does anybody know of a cheap gyro to use and any
    >links to other pages that pertain to balancing robots.
    >
    >
    >
    >Do you Yahoo!?
    >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
    >
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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-02-04 03:24
    Thanks Christian, that helps alot.

    Christian Wentz <cwentz86@h...> wrote:I've had good results using the
    iMEMS angular rate sensors from Analog
    Devices ( www.analog.com ). These IC's are the most compact i've found, and
    are well under $50 a piece; however, the pin configuration is a bit
    cumbersome for one-off applications. If you don't want to bother with
    making your own interface circuit, you might want to look at some of the RC
    helicopter gyros. Perhaps try www.towerhobbies.com or something similar.

    Regards,
    Christian Wentz

    >From: Kyle Cooper
    >Reply-To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    >To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    >Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] gyro
    >Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:15:55 -0800 (PST)
    >
    >I want to build a 2-wheel self balancing robot with the tab sumo bot kit
    >that has a built in bs2. Does anybody know of a cheap gyro to use and any
    >links to other pages that pertain to balancing robots.
    >
    >
    >
    >Do you Yahoo!?
    >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
    >
    >[noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    >
    >
    >To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    >Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    >Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    >To visit your group on the web, go to:
    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
    >
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    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-02-04 04:16
    This link should pretty much get you going on everything.
    http://www.dprg.org/projects/2003-01a/
    It has links to some other balancing robots as well.

    Original Message
    From: Kyle Cooper [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=rmUE7X-TLyCicgB1Meyzevh2fO7clNCDx8DeiO_hNNZZDYlwIKzPIZRBbzU5UgzUIl5pHDuqvFd3sA]crazykurby@y...[/url
    Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 8:16 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] gyro

    I want to build a 2-wheel self balancing robot with the tab sumo bot kit
    that has a built in bs2. Does anybody know of a cheap gyro to use and
    any links to other pages that pertain to balancing robots.


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    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-02-04 15:55
    At 06:15 PM 2/3/04 -0800, you wrote:
    >I want to build a 2-wheel self balancing robot with the tab sumo bot kit
    >that has a built in bs2. Does anybody know of a cheap gyro to use and any
    >links to other pages that pertain to balancing robots.

    Not a gyro, but cheap.... Use an old analog Joystick turned upside down
    with a weight on the
    joystick "stick". Monitor resistance changes from the X & Y pots on the
    joystick to
    determine its position and do what you need to do to compensate so that the
    joystick
    values maintain center.

    If you just want your 2-wheel robot to "up-right" itself automatically,
    simply move the
    center of gravity below BOTH of the wheel axis. Sort of like a
    weeble-wobble ...or
    in my opinion not to far off from the self balancing act of a Segway
    (another topic).

    -Beau Schwabe
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-02-04 23:29
    thanks, I was thinking about that earlier today but i think the movement would
    be more jagged and jerk more. I will probably try that but i am looking at a
    single axis piezo gyro around $40 dollars according to a site that was suggested
    on here.

    Beau Schwabe <bschwabe@a...> wrote:At 06:15 PM 2/3/04 -0800, you
    wrote:
    >I want to build a 2-wheel self balancing robot with the tab sumo bot kit
    >that has a built in bs2. Does anybody know of a cheap gyro to use and any
    >links to other pages that pertain to balancing robots.

    Not a gyro, but cheap.... Use an old analog Joystick turned upside down
    with a weight on the
    joystick "stick". Monitor resistance changes from the X & Y pots on the
    joystick to
    determine its position and do what you need to do to compensate so that the
    joystick
    values maintain center.

    If you just want your 2-wheel robot to "up-right" itself automatically,
    simply move the
    center of gravity below BOTH of the wheel axis. Sort of like a
    weeble-wobble ...or
    in my opinion not to far off from the self balancing act of a Segway
    (another topic).

    -Beau Schwabe



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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-02-05 03:39
    I was looking at more homebuilt two wheeled robots. One of the robots used two
    IR measuring sensors instead of a gyro to balance. What would work better a gyro
    or two IR measuring sensors. Thanks everyone for all of your responses.

    Kyle Cooper <crazykurby@y...> wrote:thanks, I was thinking about that
    earlier today but i think the movement would be more jagged and jerk more. I
    will probably try that but i am looking at a single axis piezo gyro around $40
    dollars according to a site that was suggested on here.

    Beau Schwabe wrote:At 06:15 PM 2/3/04 -0800, you wrote:
    >I want to build a 2-wheel self balancing robot with the tab sumo bot kit
    >that has a built in bs2. Does anybody know of a cheap gyro to use and any
    >links to other pages that pertain to balancing robots.

    Not a gyro, but cheap.... Use an old analog Joystick turned upside down
    with a weight on the
    joystick "stick". Monitor resistance changes from the X & Y pots on the
    joystick to
    determine its position and do what you need to do to compensate so that the
    joystick
    values maintain center.

    If you just want your 2-wheel robot to "up-right" itself automatically,
    simply move the
    center of gravity below BOTH of the wheel axis. Sort of like a
    weeble-wobble ...or
    in my opinion not to far off from the self balancing act of a Segway
    (another topic).

    -Beau Schwabe



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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-02-05 04:09
    The IR sensor method works OK on a level surface.
    But it fails if you have to go up or down an incline or over bumps or
    ridges or slots (like the expansion joints on a concrete sidewalk).
    Plus it fails if you add an off balance weight or object to the robot.
    For example a small arm extending and picking up something and then
    retracting again.

    But using the IR sensors make for a lot of fun still, it allows you to
    work out a lot of the basics and get your motor control and balancing
    algorithims going good. Then you can extend it by adding gyros,
    accelerometers or some other method later.


    Original Message
    From: Kyle Cooper [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=0ksHb6n0pAv5pnBbubn9rIo10lGHniKUDdSEZoLEeL3s4xrhHIwzhqx0dYrHoFj_FbuGkA0RdaFQIw]crazykurby@y...[/url
    Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 9:40 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] gyro

    I was looking at more homebuilt two wheeled robots. One of the robots
    used two IR measuring sensors instead of a gyro to balance. What would
    work better a gyro or two IR measuring sensors. Thanks everyone for all
    of your responses.

    Kyle Cooper <crazykurby@y...> wrote:thanks, I was thinking about
    that earlier today but i think the movement would be more jagged and
    jerk more. I will probably try that but i am looking at a single axis
    piezo gyro around $40 dollars according to a site that was suggested on
    here.

    Beau Schwabe wrote:At 06:15 PM 2/3/04 -0800, you wrote:
    >I want to build a 2-wheel self balancing robot with the tab sumo bot
    kit
    >that has a built in bs2. Does anybody know of a cheap gyro to use and
    any
    >links to other pages that pertain to balancing robots.

    Not a gyro, but cheap.... Use an old analog Joystick turned upside down
    with a weight on the
    joystick "stick". Monitor resistance changes from the X & Y pots on the
    joystick to
    determine its position and do what you need to do to compensate so that
    the
    joystick
    values maintain center.

    If you just want your 2-wheel robot to "up-right" itself automatically,
    simply move the
    center of gravity below BOTH of the wheel axis. Sort of like a
    weeble-wobble ...or
    in my opinion not to far off from the self balancing act of a Segway
    (another topic).

    -Beau Schwabe



    To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-02-05 13:15
    Thanks for the advice. I didnt think about inclines and bumps. With this in mind
    I think ill go with a piezo gyro.

    Earl Bollinger <earlwbollinger@c...> wrote:The IR sensor method works OK
    on a level surface.
    But it fails if you have to go up or down an incline or over bumps or
    ridges or slots (like the expansion joints on a concrete sidewalk).
    Plus it fails if you add an off balance weight or object to the robot.
    For example a small arm extending and picking up something and then
    retracting again.

    But using the IR sensors make for a lot of fun still, it allows you to
    work out a lot of the basics and get your motor control and balancing
    algorithims going good. Then you can extend it by adding gyros,
    accelerometers or some other method later.


    Original Message
    From: Kyle Cooper [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=hGToTfvTiu8nuBOUUILlEMp2ShYC2MSUEgRSAUqPFT2tSBswXzRasLp-F6rr267f-x_-z7JgMCaHEA]crazykurby@y...[/url
    Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 9:40 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] gyro

    I was looking at more homebuilt two wheeled robots. One of the robots
    used two IR measuring sensors instead of a gyro to balance. What would
    work better a gyro or two IR measuring sensors. Thanks everyone for all
    of your responses.

    Kyle Cooper wrote:thanks, I was thinking about
    that earlier today but i think the movement would be more jagged and
    jerk more. I will probably try that but i am looking at a single axis
    piezo gyro around $40 dollars according to a site that was suggested on
    here.

    Beau Schwabe wrote:At 06:15 PM 2/3/04 -0800, you wrote:
    >I want to build a 2-wheel self balancing robot with the tab sumo bot
    kit
    >that has a built in bs2. Does anybody know of a cheap gyro to use and
    any
    >links to other pages that pertain to balancing robots.

    Not a gyro, but cheap.... Use an old analog Joystick turned upside down
    with a weight on the
    joystick "stick". Monitor resistance changes from the X & Y pots on the
    joystick to
    determine its position and do what you need to do to compensate so that
    the
    joystick
    values maintain center.

    If you just want your 2-wheel robot to "up-right" itself automatically,
    simply move the
    center of gravity below BOTH of the wheel axis. Sort of like a
    weeble-wobble ...or
    in my opinion not to far off from the self balancing act of a Segway
    (another topic).

    -Beau Schwabe



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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-02-05 17:10
    You will probably need 2 gyros, since each is sensitive about only one
    rotational axis. You need to stabilize both the roll (side to side) and
    pitch (forward-backward) motion, for the same reasons that Earl stated
    -- bumps or slots can lead to falls in either direction.

    Note that humans use 3 angular and 2 linear sensors to help stabilize
    during bipedal standing and walking, plus additional information from
    vision and touch. Stable walking can be done with robots too, but it
    becomes complicated. A Carnegie Mellon robotics lab developed a monopod
    (pogo stick) robot that hopped stably on one foot.

    Dennis
    WSR, Inc. (www.4wsr.com)
    Pasadena CA

    Original Message
    From: Kyle Cooper [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=gy9A73QhP8v7esCyihhzeDoRwtHo3N8DylYsaWdIkUOZMXtbT9nZrAuHZsgRq2MUkoPM423K94cPV_J5vg]crazykurby@y...[/url
    Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 5:16 AM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] gyro


    Thanks for the advice. I didnt think about inclines and bumps. With this
    in mind I think ill go with a piezo gyro.

    Earl Bollinger <earlwbollinger@c...> wrote:The IR sensor method
    works OK on a level surface.
    But it fails if you have to go up or down an incline or over bumps or
    ridges or slots (like the expansion joints on a concrete sidewalk). Plus
    it fails if you add an off balance weight or object to the robot. For
    example a small arm extending and picking up something and then
    retracting again.

    But using the IR sensors make for a lot of fun still, it allows you to
    work out a lot of the basics and get your motor control and balancing
    algorithims going good. Then you can extend it by adding gyros,
    accelerometers or some other method later.


    Original Message
    From: Kyle Cooper [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=gy9A73QhP8v7esCyihhzeDoRwtHo3N8DylYsaWdIkUOZMXtbT9nZrAuHZsgRq2MUkoPM423K94cPV_J5vg]crazykurby@y...[/url
    Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 9:40 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] gyro

    I was looking at more homebuilt two wheeled robots. One of the robots
    used two IR measuring sensors instead of a gyro to balance. What would
    work better a gyro or two IR measuring sensors. Thanks everyone for all
    of your responses.

    Kyle Cooper wrote:thanks, I was thinking about
    that earlier today but i think the movement would be more jagged and
    jerk more. I will probably try that but i am looking at a single axis
    piezo gyro around $40 dollars according to a site that was suggested on
    here.

    Beau Schwabe wrote:At 06:15 PM 2/3/04 -0800, you wrote:
    >I want to build a 2-wheel self balancing robot with the tab sumo bot
    kit
    >that has a built in bs2. Does anybody know of a cheap gyro to use and
    any
    >links to other pages that pertain to balancing robots.

    Not a gyro, but cheap.... Use an old analog Joystick turned upside down
    with a weight on the
    joystick "stick". Monitor resistance changes from the X & Y pots on the
    joystick to
    determine its position and do what you need to do to compensate so that
    the
    joystick
    values maintain center.

    If you just want your 2-wheel robot to "up-right" itself automatically,
    simply move the
    center of gravity below BOTH of the wheel axis. Sort of like a
    weeble-wobble ...or
    in my opinion not to far off from the self balancing act of a Segway
    (another topic).

    -Beau Schwabe



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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-02-06 00:26
    Your probably right, I thought i could get away with one if i had a wide base
    between the wheels. I figured i could get away with 1 gyro to take care of it
    either falling forward or backward. I thought one gyro would work as long as its
    not too top heavy.

    Dennis O'Leary <doleary@e...> wrote:You will probably need 2 gyros,
    since each is sensitive about only one
    rotational axis. You need to stabilize both the roll (side to side) and
    pitch (forward-backward) motion, for the same reasons that Earl stated
    -- bumps or slots can lead to falls in either direction.

    Note that humans use 3 angular and 2 linear sensors to help stabilize
    during bipedal standing and walking, plus additional information from
    vision and touch. Stable walking can be done with robots too, but it
    becomes complicated. A Carnegie Mellon robotics lab developed a monopod
    (pogo stick) robot that hopped stably on one foot.

    Dennis
    WSR, Inc. (www.4wsr.com)
    Pasadena CA

    Original Message
    From: Kyle Cooper [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=J1LtkKuIxEgGmXvmkb0vS8QzXPAnyHKekYwoSzln4bIy3euJtgvRPK0_B9qkMX58B8XEIjdSsLG_De1B]crazykurby@y...[/url
    Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 5:16 AM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] gyro


    Thanks for the advice. I didnt think about inclines and bumps. With this
    in mind I think ill go with a piezo gyro.

    Earl Bollinger wrote:The IR sensor method
    works OK on a level surface.
    But it fails if you have to go up or down an incline or over bumps or
    ridges or slots (like the expansion joints on a concrete sidewalk). Plus
    it fails if you add an off balance weight or object to the robot. For
    example a small arm extending and picking up something and then
    retracting again.

    But using the IR sensors make for a lot of fun still, it allows you to
    work out a lot of the basics and get your motor control and balancing
    algorithims going good. Then you can extend it by adding gyros,
    accelerometers or some other method later.


    Original Message
    From: Kyle Cooper [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=J1LtkKuIxEgGmXvmkb0vS8QzXPAnyHKekYwoSzln4bIy3euJtgvRPK0_B9qkMX58B8XEIjdSsLG_De1B]crazykurby@y...[/url
    Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 9:40 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] gyro

    I was looking at more homebuilt two wheeled robots. One of the robots
    used two IR measuring sensors instead of a gyro to balance. What would
    work better a gyro or two IR measuring sensors. Thanks everyone for all
    of your responses.

    Kyle Cooper wrote:thanks, I was thinking about
    that earlier today but i think the movement would be more jagged and
    jerk more. I will probably try that but i am looking at a single axis
    piezo gyro around $40 dollars according to a site that was suggested on
    here.

    Beau Schwabe wrote:At 06:15 PM 2/3/04 -0800, you wrote:
    >I want to build a 2-wheel self balancing robot with the tab sumo bot
    kit
    >that has a built in bs2. Does anybody know of a cheap gyro to use and
    any
    >links to other pages that pertain to balancing robots.

    Not a gyro, but cheap.... Use an old analog Joystick turned upside down
    with a weight on the
    joystick "stick". Monitor resistance changes from the X & Y pots on the
    joystick to
    determine its position and do what you need to do to compensate so that
    the
    joystick
    values maintain center.

    If you just want your 2-wheel robot to "up-right" itself automatically,
    simply move the
    center of gravity below BOTH of the wheel axis. Sort of like a
    weeble-wobble ...or
    in my opinion not to far off from the self balancing act of a Segway
    (another topic).

    -Beau Schwabe



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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-02-06 04:08
    Actually for a regular two wheel balancing robot you only need one gyro
    (for the forward and aft axis), and a accelerometer (to tell where upor
    vertical is). You basically use the accelerometer to get the up
    reference point and to tell if your off. The gyro is used for the fast
    rate changes as the robot tilts. It's possible to use the accelerometer
    for both, but it tends to be slow thus the gyro does this much better.
    The problem is the gyro only tells you when there is a change, it
    doesn't tell you how much your tilted one way or the other.
    Of course if your doing a mono-bot and not a di-bot then you do need two
    gyros for the x and y axis and also to use both the x and y axis on a
    accellerometer as well.
    The accelerometers are pretty neat, they always know where up is. You
    can tilt the robot, then power it on and the accelerometer chip will
    tell you it's tilted and how much. A gyro won't tell you it's tilted at
    all. But if you move the robot slightly the gyro will suddenly notice
    the change.


    Original Message
    From: Kyle Cooper [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=mfxudhokuXuWCspLNQI7hzwA9-0hA6CwgNgS53bWlZ6Au294FU1ouMtStMfjYK_kXmIwuQPiyc3nsZmI]crazykurby@y...[/url
    Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 6:26 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] gyro

    Your probably right, I thought i could get away with one if i had a wide
    base between the wheels. I figured i could get away with 1 gyro to take
    care of it either falling forward or backward. I thought one gyro would
    work as long as its not too top heavy.


    Dennis O'Leary <doleary@e...> wrote:You will probably need 2
    gyros, since each is sensitive about only one
    rotational axis. You need to stabilize both the roll (side to side) and
    pitch (forward-backward) motion, for the same reasons that Earl stated
    -- bumps or slots can lead to falls in either direction.

    Note that humans use 3 angular and 2 linear sensors to help stabilize
    during bipedal standing and walking, plus additional information from
    vision and touch. Stable walking can be done with robots too, but it
    becomes complicated. A Carnegie Mellon robotics lab developed a monopod
    (pogo stick) robot that hopped stably on one foot.

    Dennis
    WSR, Inc. (www.4wsr.com)
    Pasadena CA

    Original Message
    From: Kyle Cooper [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=mfxudhokuXuWCspLNQI7hzwA9-0hA6CwgNgS53bWlZ6Au294FU1ouMtStMfjYK_kXmIwuQPiyc3nsZmI]crazykurby@y...[/url
    Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 5:16 AM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] gyro


    Thanks for the advice. I didnt think about inclines and bumps. With this
    in mind I think ill go with a piezo gyro.

    Earl Bollinger wrote:The IR sensor method
    works OK on a level surface.
    But it fails if you have to go up or down an incline or over bumps or
    ridges or slots (like the expansion joints on a concrete sidewalk). Plus
    it fails if you add an off balance weight or object to the robot. For
    example a small arm extending and picking up something and then
    retracting again.

    But using the IR sensors make for a lot of fun still, it allows you to
    work out a lot of the basics and get your motor control and balancing
    algorithims going good. Then you can extend it by adding gyros,
    accelerometers or some other method later.


    Original Message
    From: Kyle Cooper [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=mfxudhokuXuWCspLNQI7hzwA9-0hA6CwgNgS53bWlZ6Au294FU1ouMtStMfjYK_kXmIwuQPiyc3nsZmI]crazykurby@y...[/url
    Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 9:40 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] gyro

    I was looking at more homebuilt two wheeled robots. One of the robots
    used two IR measuring sensors instead of a gyro to balance. What would
    work better a gyro or two IR measuring sensors. Thanks everyone for all
    of your responses.

    Kyle Cooper wrote:thanks, I was thinking about
    that earlier today but i think the movement would be more jagged and
    jerk more. I will probably try that but i am looking at a single axis
    piezo gyro around $40 dollars according to a site that was suggested on
    here.

    Beau Schwabe wrote:At 06:15 PM 2/3/04 -0800, you wrote:
    >I want to build a 2-wheel self balancing robot with the tab sumo bot
    kit
    >that has a built in bs2. Does anybody know of a cheap gyro to use and
    any
    >links to other pages that pertain to balancing robots.

    Not a gyro, but cheap.... Use an old analog Joystick turned upside down
    with a weight on the
    joystick "stick". Monitor resistance changes from the X & Y pots on the
    joystick to
    determine its position and do what you need to do to compensate so that
    the
    joystick
    values maintain center.

    If you just want your 2-wheel robot to "up-right" itself automatically,
    simply move the
    center of gravity below BOTH of the wheel axis. Sort of like a
    weeble-wobble ...or
    in my opinion not to far off from the self balancing act of a Segway
    (another topic).

    -Beau Schwabe



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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-02-06 22:15
    With this info and my lack of experience should i use IR sensors and have the
    robot balance on flat surfaces only or go for the accelerometer and gyro.

    Earl Bollinger <earlwbollinger@c...> wrote:Actually for a regular two
    wheel balancing robot you only need one gyro
    (for the forward and aft axis), and a accelerometer (to tell where upor
    vertical is). You basically use the accelerometer to get the up
    reference point and to tell if your off. The gyro is used for the fast
    rate changes as the robot tilts. It's possible to use the accelerometer
    for both, but it tends to be slow thus the gyro does this much better.
    The problem is the gyro only tells you when there is a change, it
    doesn't tell you how much your tilted one way or the other.
    Of course if your doing a mono-bot and not a di-bot then you do need two
    gyros for the x and y axis and also to use both the x and y axis on a
    accellerometer as well.
    The accelerometers are pretty neat, they always know where up is. You
    can tilt the robot, then power it on and the accelerometer chip will
    tell you it's tilted and how much. A gyro won't tell you it's tilted at
    all. But if you move the robot slightly the gyro will suddenly notice
    the change.


    Original Message
    From: Kyle Cooper [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=BTn5ZPeQgOkQBdpM0BSM1LVwNMmh27anMD0kK7btwimr-qazrd8iMzEWtiUHaJeSp6yLZJUuKgSWkTPYDpw]crazykurby@y...[/url
    Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 6:26 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] gyro

    Your probably right, I thought i could get away with one if i had a wide
    base between the wheels. I figured i could get away with 1 gyro to take
    care of it either falling forward or backward. I thought one gyro would
    work as long as its not too top heavy.


    Dennis O'Leary wrote:You will probably need 2
    gyros, since each is sensitive about only one
    rotational axis. You need to stabilize both the roll (side to side) and
    pitch (forward-backward) motion, for the same reasons that Earl stated
    -- bumps or slots can lead to falls in either direction.

    Note that humans use 3 angular and 2 linear sensors to help stabilize
    during bipedal standing and walking, plus additional information from
    vision and touch. Stable walking can be done with robots too, but it
    becomes complicated. A Carnegie Mellon robotics lab developed a monopod
    (pogo stick) robot that hopped stably on one foot.

    Dennis
    WSR, Inc. (www.4wsr.com)
    Pasadena CA

    Original Message
    From: Kyle Cooper [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=BTn5ZPeQgOkQBdpM0BSM1LVwNMmh27anMD0kK7btwimr-qazrd8iMzEWtiUHaJeSp6yLZJUuKgSWkTPYDpw]crazykurby@y...[/url
    Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 5:16 AM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] gyro


    Thanks for the advice. I didnt think about inclines and bumps. With this
    in mind I think ill go with a piezo gyro.

    Earl Bollinger wrote:The IR sensor method
    works OK on a level surface.
    But it fails if you have to go up or down an incline or over bumps or
    ridges or slots (like the expansion joints on a concrete sidewalk). Plus
    it fails if you add an off balance weight or object to the robot. For
    example a small arm extending and picking up something and then
    retracting again.

    But using the IR sensors make for a lot of fun still, it allows you to
    work out a lot of the basics and get your motor control and balancing
    algorithims going good. Then you can extend it by adding gyros,
    accelerometers or some other method later.


    Original Message
    From: Kyle Cooper [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=BTn5ZPeQgOkQBdpM0BSM1LVwNMmh27anMD0kK7btwimr-qazrd8iMzEWtiUHaJeSp6yLZJUuKgSWkTPYDpw]crazykurby@y...[/url
    Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 9:40 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] gyro

    I was looking at more homebuilt two wheeled robots. One of the robots
    used two IR measuring sensors instead of a gyro to balance. What would
    work better a gyro or two IR measuring sensors. Thanks everyone for all
    of your responses.

    Kyle Cooper wrote:thanks, I was thinking about
    that earlier today but i think the movement would be more jagged and
    jerk more. I will probably try that but i am looking at a single axis
    piezo gyro around $40 dollars according to a site that was suggested on
    here.

    Beau Schwabe wrote:At 06:15 PM 2/3/04 -0800, you wrote:
    >I want to build a 2-wheel self balancing robot with the tab sumo bot
    kit
    >that has a built in bs2. Does anybody know of a cheap gyro to use and
    any
    >links to other pages that pertain to balancing robots.

    Not a gyro, but cheap.... Use an old analog Joystick turned upside down
    with a weight on the
    joystick "stick". Monitor resistance changes from the X & Y pots on the
    joystick to
    determine its position and do what you need to do to compensate so that
    the
    joystick
    values maintain center.

    If you just want your 2-wheel robot to "up-right" itself automatically,
    simply move the
    center of gravity below BOTH of the wheel axis. Sort of like a
    weeble-wobble ...or
    in my opinion not to far off from the self balancing act of a Segway
    (another topic).

    -Beau Schwabe



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    Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!

    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-02-07 03:13
    I think you might have a trememndous amount of fun and challenge getting
    IR sensors to work first.
    Then you have much of the algorithims or methods worked out.
    Next you improve it. [noparse]:)[/noparse]


    Original Message
    From: Kyle Cooper [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=pZlCRuPccHkI1JVXZfNmhvO2qgSrR-d2UahVujjWaFZoOPRRgS4_X3QgHUQ1p_aSl8rLkQCsLLuyqbU]crazykurby@y...[/url
    Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 4:15 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] gyro

    With this info and my lack of experience should i use IR sensors and
    have the robot balance on flat surfaces only or go for the accelerometer
    and gyro.

    Earl Bollinger <earlwbollinger@c...> wrote:Actually for a regular
    two wheel balancing robot you only need one gyro
    (for the forward and aft axis), and a accelerometer (to tell where upor
    vertical is). You basically use the accelerometer to get the up
    reference point and to tell if your off. The gyro is used for the fast
    rate changes as the robot tilts. It's possible to use the accelerometer
    for both, but it tends to be slow thus the gyro does this much better.
    The problem is the gyro only tells you when there is a change, it
    doesn't tell you how much your tilted one way or the other.
    Of course if your doing a mono-bot and not a di-bot then you do need two
    gyros for the x and y axis and also to use both the x and y axis on a
    accellerometer as well.
    The accelerometers are pretty neat, they always know where up is. You
    can tilt the robot, then power it on and the accelerometer chip will
    tell you it's tilted and how much. A gyro won't tell you it's tilted at
    all. But if you move the robot slightly the gyro will suddenly notice
    the change.


    Original Message
    From: Kyle Cooper [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=pZlCRuPccHkI1JVXZfNmhvO2qgSrR-d2UahVujjWaFZoOPRRgS4_X3QgHUQ1p_aSl8rLkQCsLLuyqbU]crazykurby@y...[/url
    Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 6:26 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] gyro

    Your probably right, I thought i could get away with one if i had a wide
    base between the wheels. I figured i could get away with 1 gyro to take
    care of it either falling forward or backward. I thought one gyro would
    work as long as its not too top heavy.


    Dennis O'Leary wrote:You will probably need 2
    gyros, since each is sensitive about only one
    rotational axis. You need to stabilize both the roll (side to side) and
    pitch (forward-backward) motion, for the same reasons that Earl stated
    -- bumps or slots can lead to falls in either direction.

    Note that humans use 3 angular and 2 linear sensors to help stabilize
    during bipedal standing and walking, plus additional information from
    vision and touch. Stable walking can be done with robots too, but it
    becomes complicated. A Carnegie Mellon robotics lab developed a monopod
    (pogo stick) robot that hopped stably on one foot.

    Dennis
    WSR, Inc. (www.4wsr.com)
    Pasadena CA

    Original Message
    From: Kyle Cooper [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=pZlCRuPccHkI1JVXZfNmhvO2qgSrR-d2UahVujjWaFZoOPRRgS4_X3QgHUQ1p_aSl8rLkQCsLLuyqbU]crazykurby@y...[/url
    Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 5:16 AM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] gyro


    Thanks for the advice. I didnt think about inclines and bumps. With this
    in mind I think ill go with a piezo gyro.

    Earl Bollinger wrote:The IR sensor method
    works OK on a level surface.
    But it fails if you have to go up or down an incline or over bumps or
    ridges or slots (like the expansion joints on a concrete sidewalk). Plus
    it fails if you add an off balance weight or object to the robot. For
    example a small arm extending and picking up something and then
    retracting again.

    But using the IR sensors make for a lot of fun still, it allows you to
    work out a lot of the basics and get your motor control and balancing
    algorithims going good. Then you can extend it by adding gyros,
    accelerometers or some other method later.


    Original Message
    From: Kyle Cooper [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=pZlCRuPccHkI1JVXZfNmhvO2qgSrR-d2UahVujjWaFZoOPRRgS4_X3QgHUQ1p_aSl8rLkQCsLLuyqbU]crazykurby@y...[/url
    Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 9:40 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] gyro

    I was looking at more homebuilt two wheeled robots. One of the robots
    used two IR measuring sensors instead of a gyro to balance. What would
    work better a gyro or two IR measuring sensors. Thanks everyone for all
    of your responses.

    Kyle Cooper wrote:thanks, I was thinking about
    that earlier today but i think the movement would be more jagged and
    jerk more. I will probably try that but i am looking at a single axis
    piezo gyro around $40 dollars according to a site that was suggested on
    here.

    Beau Schwabe wrote:At 06:15 PM 2/3/04 -0800, you wrote:
    >I want to build a 2-wheel self balancing robot with the tab sumo bot
    kit
    >that has a built in bs2. Does anybody know of a cheap gyro to use and
    any
    >links to other pages that pertain to balancing robots.

    Not a gyro, but cheap.... Use an old analog Joystick turned upside down
    with a weight on the
    joystick "stick". Monitor resistance changes from the X & Y pots on the
    joystick to
    determine its position and do what you need to do to compensate so that
    the
    joystick
    values maintain center.

    If you just want your 2-wheel robot to "up-right" itself automatically,
    simply move the
    center of gravity below BOTH of the wheel axis. Sort of like a
    weeble-wobble ...or
    in my opinion not to far off from the self balancing act of a Segway
    (another topic).

    -Beau Schwabe



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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-02-07 04:08
    I'll go ahead and get the IR sensors and the next challenge will be to get the
    programming worked out. Thanks for everyone's help, I'm sure I'll be posting
    messages for help with the programming. Thanks again for the large amount of
    responses and advice.

    Earl Bollinger <earlwbollinger@c...> wrote:I think you might have a
    trememndous amount of fun and challenge getting
    IR sensors to work first.
    Then you have much of the algorithims or methods worked out.
    Next you improve it. [noparse]:)[/noparse]


    Original Message
    From: Kyle Cooper [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=AIFnx3oqQ6wJeOg310troJjwTlAQEEeVYuO2Sa_EFEOG5Buf6IJckG5mkqnSBlq3U2eqDPPXGMjFUg]crazykurby@y...[/url
    Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 4:15 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] gyro

    With this info and my lack of experience should i use IR sensors and
    have the robot balance on flat surfaces only or go for the accelerometer
    and gyro.

    Earl Bollinger wrote:Actually for a regular
    two wheel balancing robot you only need one gyro
    (for the forward and aft axis), and a accelerometer (to tell where upor
    vertical is). You basically use the accelerometer to get the up
    reference point and to tell if your off. The gyro is used for the fast
    rate changes as the robot tilts. It's possible to use the accelerometer
    for both, but it tends to be slow thus the gyro does this much better.
    The problem is the gyro only tells you when there is a change, it
    doesn't tell you how much your tilted one way or the other.
    Of course if your doing a mono-bot and not a di-bot then you do need two
    gyros for the x and y axis and also to use both the x and y axis on a
    accellerometer as well.
    The accelerometers are pretty neat, they always know where up is. You
    can tilt the robot, then power it on and the accelerometer chip will
    tell you it's tilted and how much. A gyro won't tell you it's tilted at
    all. But if you move the robot slightly the gyro will suddenly notice
    the change.


    Original Message
    From: Kyle Cooper [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=AIFnx3oqQ6wJeOg310troJjwTlAQEEeVYuO2Sa_EFEOG5Buf6IJckG5mkqnSBlq3U2eqDPPXGMjFUg]crazykurby@y...[/url
    Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 6:26 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] gyro

    Your probably right, I thought i could get away with one if i had a wide
    base between the wheels. I figured i could get away with 1 gyro to take
    care of it either falling forward or backward. I thought one gyro would
    work as long as its not too top heavy.


    Dennis O'Leary wrote:You will probably need 2
    gyros, since each is sensitive about only one
    rotational axis. You need to stabilize both the roll (side to side) and
    pitch (forward-backward) motion, for the same reasons that Earl stated
    -- bumps or slots can lead to falls in either direction.

    Note that humans use 3 angular and 2 linear sensors to help stabilize
    during bipedal standing and walking, plus additional information from
    vision and touch. Stable walking can be done with robots too, but it
    becomes complicated. A Carnegie Mellon robotics lab developed a monopod
    (pogo stick) robot that hopped stably on one foot.

    Dennis
    WSR, Inc. (www.4wsr.com)
    Pasadena CA

    Original Message
    From: Kyle Cooper [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=AIFnx3oqQ6wJeOg310troJjwTlAQEEeVYuO2Sa_EFEOG5Buf6IJckG5mkqnSBlq3U2eqDPPXGMjFUg]crazykurby@y...[/url
    Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 5:16 AM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] gyro


    Thanks for the advice. I didnt think about inclines and bumps. With this
    in mind I think ill go with a piezo gyro.

    Earl Bollinger wrote:The IR sensor method
    works OK on a level surface.
    But it fails if you have to go up or down an incline or over bumps or
    ridges or slots (like the expansion joints on a concrete sidewalk). Plus
    it fails if you add an off balance weight or object to the robot. For
    example a small arm extending and picking up something and then
    retracting again.

    But using the IR sensors make for a lot of fun still, it allows you to
    work out a lot of the basics and get your motor control and balancing
    algorithims going good. Then you can extend it by adding gyros,
    accelerometers or some other method later.


    Original Message
    From: Kyle Cooper [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=AIFnx3oqQ6wJeOg310troJjwTlAQEEeVYuO2Sa_EFEOG5Buf6IJckG5mkqnSBlq3U2eqDPPXGMjFUg]crazykurby@y...[/url
    Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 9:40 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] gyro

    I was looking at more homebuilt two wheeled robots. One of the robots
    used two IR measuring sensors instead of a gyro to balance. What would
    work better a gyro or two IR measuring sensors. Thanks everyone for all
    of your responses.

    Kyle Cooper wrote:thanks, I was thinking about
    that earlier today but i think the movement would be more jagged and
    jerk more. I will probably try that but i am looking at a single axis
    piezo gyro around $40 dollars according to a site that was suggested on
    here.

    Beau Schwabe wrote:At 06:15 PM 2/3/04 -0800, you wrote:
    >I want to build a 2-wheel self balancing robot with the tab sumo bot
    kit
    >that has a built in bs2. Does anybody know of a cheap gyro to use and
    any
    >links to other pages that pertain to balancing robots.

    Not a gyro, but cheap.... Use an old analog Joystick turned upside down
    with a weight on the
    joystick "stick". Monitor resistance changes from the X & Y pots on the
    joystick to
    determine its position and do what you need to do to compensate so that
    the
    joystick
    values maintain center.

    If you just want your 2-wheel robot to "up-right" itself automatically,
    simply move the
    center of gravity below BOTH of the wheel axis. Sort of like a
    weeble-wobble ...or
    in my opinion not to far off from the self balancing act of a Segway
    (another topic).

    -Beau Schwabe



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