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Open collector and open drain... — Parallax Forums

Open collector and open drain...

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2004-01-14 15:38 in General Discussion
Hi All,

Can someone explain to me what these two terms mean? I see them on
device datasheets and read them in magazine articles all the time. I
do understand what a collector is on a BJT and a drain on an FET. But
what do these terms mean and what is their significance when hooking
up devices whose datasheets say things like "This output is open
drain, or open collector" at which point I'm supposed to say "Oh,
that means I need to do thus and such". Thanks.

-Dave

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-01-14 00:32
    'Open-collector' means the output pin you
    connect to is connected to the collector of
    a transistor on the chip -- but nothing else.

    The chip can turn that transistor on and off,
    so what you are getting is a high resistance
    to ground (off) (aka 'high-impedance'),
    or a low resistance to ground (on)(aka 'a short').

    This can be very useful in 'wired-or' configurations.
    Since the chip never 'drives' the line HIGH,
    multiple output pins can be wired together.

    You then put a single resistor (10K ohm typical)
    to +5 volts on the line. If all the pins are
    'off', then the line 'floats' to +5. If ONE
    of the pins turn on, it will pull the line
    to 0 volts -- but won't damage the other
    drivers, which are still 'floating'.

    So, open-collector outputs let you do
    this 'party-line' thing with less hardware.
    You just have to add your own resistor.

    Note the 'normal' TTL output is a 'push-pull'
    output -- the output pin gets connected to
    +5 through a low-resistance path to 'push' the
    pin high, or to ground through a low-resistance
    path to 'pull' the pin low. If you connect two
    of THESE drivers together, and one tries to 'push'
    while the other 'pulls', if there isn't some
    small resistor (like 220 ohms) between them,
    one of the drivers on one of the pins is going
    to act like a fuse and burn out.

    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "nuclearspin2000"
    <nuclearspin2000@y...> wrote:
    > Hi All,
    >
    > Can someone explain to me what these two terms mean? I see them on
    > device datasheets and read them in magazine articles all the time.
    I
    > do understand what a collector is on a BJT and a drain on an FET.
    But
    > what do these terms mean and what is their significance when
    hooking
    > up devices whose datasheets say things like "This output is open
    > drain, or open collector" at which point I'm supposed to say "Oh,
    > that means I need to do thus and such". Thanks.
    >
    > -Dave
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-01-14 00:34
    Dave,

    Open collector means that the device (op amp, TTL chip, any kind of module)
    has a transistor where the collector or drain terminal is brought out to a pin,
    and there is nothing connected to the collector.

    For example, take an op amp comparitor running on 12 volts, but you want the
    output of the op amp to be a 0 to 5 volt TTL signal.

    You would connect a resistor (10k 4.7k etc) from the open collector output to
    +5 volts.

    When the comparitor is in one state, the output will read 5 volts, and the
    opposite state 0 volts.

    Picture something like a simple 2N3904 transitor inside the IC or device, and
    the collector terminal of the transistor is brought out to a pin that the
    user can access. I have only seen NPN type open collector devices........not
    sure if there is PNP types....

    Hope this helps more than confuses.

    ken



    In a message dated 1/13/2004 4:23:35 PM Pacific Standard Time,
    nuclearspin2000@y... writes:
    Hi All,

    Can someone explain to me what these two terms mean? I see them on
    device datasheets and read them in magazine articles all the time. I
    do understand what a collector is on a BJT and a drain on an FET. But
    what do these terms mean and what is their significance when hooking
    up devices whose datasheets say things like "This output is open
    drain, or open collector" at which point I'm supposed to say "Oh,
    that means I need to do thus and such". Thanks.

    -Dave


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-01-14 00:36
    Hello from Gregg C Levine
    Close. For the SN7405, which is the Hex inverter but with its outputs
    as that, it means that they do not have an internal pull up resistor.
    The CMOS version of that device, has its outputs arranged in roughly
    the same fashion. To use them, you need to supply a proper pull up
    resistor, a 2.2K one usually does that. They are normally used for
    relay drivers.
    Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@w...
    "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
    "Use the Force, Luke."· Obi-Wan Kenobi
    (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
    (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



    >
    Original Message
    > From: goflo@p... [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=Q08CneCbEI2iZrfSRVWGvrTLjgQaS_lh3lb5Zm_iIRKUmcTXXmXwLbFJ3W3NYxczrDEjdbGDINNz]goflo@p...[/url
    > Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 9:24 PM
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Open collector and open drain...
    >
    > It usually means that when the device is toggled "active" by
    > base current or gate voltage the output will go to ground.
    >
    > Jack
    >
    > > Can someone explain to me what these two terms mean? I see them on
    > > device datasheets and read them in magazine articles all the time.
    I
    > > do understand what a collector is on a BJT and a drain on an FET.
    But
    > > what do these terms mean and what is their significance when
    hooking
    > > up devices whose datasheets say things like "This output is open
    > > drain, or open collector" at which point I'm supposed to say "Oh,
    > > that means I need to do thus and such". Thanks.
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-01-14 00:37
    Also,

    On a transistor spec sheet you will see a term under maximum ratings, a term
    like

    Vebo

    This gives the maximum voltage one can apply across the two labeled terminals
    (emitter base in this example Vebo) and the unlabled last terminal, collector
    in this case, is left open.



    In a message dated 1/13/2004 4:23:35 PM Pacific Standard Time,
    nuclearspin2000@y... writes:
    Hi All,

    Can someone explain to me what these two terms mean? I see them on
    device datasheets and read them in magazine articles all the time. I
    do understand what a collector is on a BJT and a drain on an FET. But
    what do these terms mean and what is their significance when hooking
    up devices whose datasheets say things like "This output is open
    drain, or open collector" at which point I'm supposed to say "Oh,
    that means I need to do thus and such". Thanks.

    -Dave


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-01-14 00:38
    Well said


    In a message dated 1/13/2004 4:34:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,
    allan.lane@h... writes:
    'Open-collector' means the output pin you
    connect to is connected to the collector of
    a transistor on the chip -- but nothing else.

    The chip can turn that transistor on and off,
    so what you are getting is a high resistance
    to ground (off) (aka 'high-impedance'),
    or a low resistance to ground (on)(aka 'a short').

    This can be very useful in 'wired-or' configurations.
    Since the chip never 'drives' the line HIGH,
    multiple output pins can be wired together.

    You then put a single resistor (10K ohm typical)
    to +5 volts on the line. If all the pins are
    'off', then the line 'floats' to +5. If ONE
    of the pins turn on, it will pull the line
    to 0 volts -- but won't damage the other
    drivers, which are still 'floating'.

    So, open-collector outputs let you do
    this 'party-line' thing with less hardware.
    You just have to add your own resistor.

    Note the 'normal' TTL output is a 'push-pull'
    output -- the output pin gets connected to
    +5 through a low-resistance path to 'push' the
    pin high, or to ground through a low-resistance
    path to 'pull' the pin low. If you connect two
    of THESE drivers together, and one tries to 'push'
    while the other 'pulls', if there isn't some
    small resistor (like 220 ohms) between them,
    one of the drivers on one of the pins is going
    to act like a fuse and burn out.


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-01-14 02:23
    It usually means that when the device is toggled "active" by
    base current or gate voltage the output will go to ground.

    Jack

    > Can someone explain to me what these two terms mean? I see them on
    > device datasheets and read them in magazine articles all the time. I
    > do understand what a collector is on a BJT and a drain on an FET. But
    > what do these terms mean and what is their significance when hooking
    > up devices whose datasheets say things like "This output is open
    > drain, or open collector" at which point I'm supposed to say "Oh,
    > that means I need to do thus and such". Thanks.
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-01-14 15:38
    Great explanations all! And very helpful. Thanks much.

    -Dave

    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "nuclearspin2000"
    <nuclearspin2000@y...> wrote:
    > Hi All,
    >
    > Can someone explain to me what these two terms mean? I see them on
    > device datasheets and read them in magazine articles all the time.
    I
    > do understand what a collector is on a BJT and a drain on an FET.
    But
    > what do these terms mean and what is their significance when
    hooking
    > up devices whose datasheets say things like "This output is open
    > drain, or open collector" at which point I'm supposed to say "Oh,
    > that means I need to do thus and such". Thanks.
    >
    > -Dave
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