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PCB etching — Parallax Forums

PCB etching

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2004-01-12 17:15 in General Discussion
Hi,

I'm working on a soccer robot and am up to etching the PCB. I've
got pretty much all the equipment. Now, I'm not sure whether to do
it manually with an etch resistant pen, or to use a comptuer program
and use a toner etch resist transfer.

The problem I see with doing it manually is that I need some kind of
a stencil to draw the sections where the IC's are going to go and so
on.. Does anyone know of such a stencil and where I could get one?

The problem I see with doing it with a computer program is I can't
find a program where I can design it (with all the symbols aready in
the program) and then print it where it's 1:1 with the PCB I've
designed?

If any of you could help me out with eiter of these I'd really
appreciate it.

Thanks
James

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-01-12 09:20
    I've just downloaded eagle. This is Freeware PCB design software.
    Output is 1:1 with the real PCB. Is has some big libraries with lots
    of components.
    There is more software like this, so the software should not be a
    reason to go manual. http://www.cadsoft.de/

    Peter


    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "James Dang" <ensignkim113@y...>
    wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > I'm working on a soccer robot and am up to etching the PCB. I've
    > got pretty much all the equipment. Now, I'm not sure whether to do
    > it manually with an etch resistant pen, or to use a comptuer
    program
    > and use a toner etch resist transfer.
    >
    > The problem I see with doing it manually is that I need some kind
    of
    > a stencil to draw the sections where the IC's are going to go and
    so
    > on.. Does anyone know of such a stencil and where I could get one?
    >
    > The problem I see with doing it with a computer program is I can't
    > find a program where I can design it (with all the symbols aready
    in
    > the program) and then print it where it's 1:1 with the PCB I've
    > designed?
    >
    > If any of you could help me out with eiter of these I'd really
    > appreciate it.
    >
    > Thanks
    > James
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-01-12 13:20
    Well, I do like Eagle (in fact, I wrote a book on it see
    http://tinyurl.com/2vp95).

    However, if you have access to Linux or you will install Cygwin (the Linux
    that runs over Windows more or less) you can run PCB which is OK
    (http://pcb.sourceforge.net/). Last time I looked, it doesn't really
    integrate with gSchem for schematic capture in any meaningful way. The
    version I have running required some tweaks to work on Cygwin, but I see
    they recently have it building under Cygwin "out of the box".

    It isn't Eagle, but it does work.

    Al Williams
    AWC
    * NEW: Universal PCB mounts Stamp, SX, or virtually any CPU
    http://www.al-williams.com/gpmpu40.htm


    Original Message
    From: James Dang [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=Y_ejAHp13jpRx4_2wsF7vw8lEOHYIDJvu7yiAEkjgqljxv_riYlpemN2GeffyzvQlZFJ8C-XhrwGJuZ8Mxf6yA]ensignkim113@y...[/url
    Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 6:16 AM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: SV: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: PCB etching


    yeah thanks, the package looks quite good, although it's a pity
    about the 8 by 10cm restriction. The board I'm thinking to create
    is about a semicircle with 10 and a half cm radius, so it's quite
    large, the thing is, I think I may need all that space.

    If anyone else knows of any other software without any size
    restrictions any help would be appreciated.

    Thanks
    James


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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-01-12 16:18
    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "James Dang" <ensignkim113@y...>
    wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > I'm working on a soccer robot and am up to etching the PCB. I've
    > got pretty much all the equipment. Now, I'm not sure whether to do
    > it manually with an etch resistant pen, or to use a comptuer
    program
    > and use a toner etch resist transfer.
    >
    > The problem I see with doing it manually is that I need some kind
    of
    > a stencil to draw the sections where the IC's are going to go and
    so
    > on.. Does anyone know of such a stencil and where I could get one?
    >
    > The problem I see with doing it with a computer program is I can't
    > find a program where I can design it (with all the symbols aready
    in
    > the program) and then print it where it's 1:1 with the PCB I've
    > designed?
    >
    > If any of you could help me out with eiter of these I'd really
    > appreciate it.
    >
    > Thanks
    > James


    If you are new to schematic software, try WinQCad. This is much
    simplier than Eagle to learn and the free version is limited to 500
    pins and something like a 2 inch square board.

    And, believe it or not, there is an ASCII CAD that will allow you to
    draw with ASCII characters and then turn that into traces and pads.

    Another program and one that offers a lot of stuff to the beginner is
    ExpressPCB. The problem with Express is that you cannot get a black
    and white print.

    As far as the toner transfer, check the group
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/

    Seems they love TIME magazine paper for it's high clay content.

    I toner transfer, then with a magnifyihg glass, check for poor traces
    and use a pen (They also discuss the pens to use) to fill in the
    blanks.

    Dave
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-01-12 16:40
    James,

    I use the laser printer toner method. Etch pens for larger circuits are a
    pain, I would go to perfboard before I used a pen.

    I find that complex circuits made with most CAD programs don't transfer that
    well. The transfers seem to like blocky, square style art for the best
    results. Even so, a little touch up with a pen is usually required. I also
    always seem to want to do oddball stuff which is never in a library. So, odd
    as it may seem, I use Photoshop to make PCB art. I have accumulated a lot of
    part art, so I can usually cut and paste. I use different layers for pads,
    traces, mask, etc. Here is a link to the most complex circuit I have made
    with this method:

    http://madlabs.info/index.php?x=h2fc_rcom.jsp

    While the art isn't on the page, you can see the PCB and get an idea of the
    complexity of the circuit.

    Here is a page that has a small piece of art drawn as described:

    http://madlabs.info/index.php?x=ir_remote.jsp

    The other nice aspect for me is that the boards can easily be made "student
    friendly", with large pads and spacing. Since many of my projects are built
    by students, this is a plus for me.

    All that said, I am fooling around with Eagle too. The only reason I am
    doing so is to be able to send out boards when I want a number of them. One
    off's I will still make the old way.

    Jonathan

    www.madlabs.info


    Original Message
    From: "James Dang" <ensignkim113@y...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 10:49 PM
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] PCB etching


    > Hi,
    >
    > I'm working on a soccer robot and am up to etching the PCB. I've
    > got pretty much all the equipment. Now, I'm not sure whether to do
    > it manually with an etch resistant pen, or to use a comptuer program
    > and use a toner etch resist transfer.
    >
    > The problem I see with doing it manually is that I need some kind of
    > a stencil to draw the sections where the IC's are going to go and so
    > on.. Does anyone know of such a stencil and where I could get one?
    >
    > The problem I see with doing it with a computer program is I can't
    > find a program where I can design it (with all the symbols aready in
    > the program) and then print it where it's 1:1 with the PCB I've
    > designed?
    >
    > If any of you could help me out with eiter of these I'd really
    > appreciate it.
    >
    > Thanks
    > James
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
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    Body of the message will be ignored.
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    >
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    >
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    >
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-01-12 16:57
    > All that said, I am fooling around with Eagle too. The only reason
    I am
    > doing so is to be able to send out boards when I want a number of
    them. One
    > off's I will still make the old way.
    >
    > Jonathan
    >
    > www.madlabs.info
    >

    Express is great for learning and their mini-board service.

    They offer a flat fee to supply the gerber files of boards you have
    already made with them. Kinda costly.

    Eagle is kinda pricy if you don't fall under their student program.

    And WindQCad offers an unlimited board size for $100.00, but does
    limit the pins to 500 actual part pins, not thruholes from traces.

    Each has it's merits.

    Dave
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-01-12 17:15
    --- James Dang <ensignkim113@y...> wrote:
    > Now, I'm not
    > sure whether to do
    > it manually with an etch resistant pen, or to use a
    > comptuer program
    > and use a toner etch resist transfer.
    > The problem I see with doing it manually is that I
    > need some kind of
    > a stencil to draw the sections where the IC's are
    > going to go and so
    > on.. Does anyone know of such a stencil and where I
    > could get one?

    James, what I have done in the past is draw the layout
    using a piece of graph paper. Each point where the
    lines cross would resemble a hole on a soldering ring
    board. I would map the layout onto the graph paper
    putting IC holes exactly 1 space apart. Then I would
    use a piece of wire-wrap or solder-ring PCB from Radio
    Shack to lay over the blank PCB. Then using my Dremel
    (Or Dremel drill-press)and a small bit, I would drill
    in the holes where I wanted them on the resulting PCB.
    This way I am "Pre-Drilling" my PCB. Then I would
    hand-draw out the rest of the layout, and where the IC
    and component pins would go, I would draw a ring
    around the hole using a fine-point Sharpie. This
    works great for Prototype boards with a single layer.
    I never had much luck with Double Layer and have used
    PCB Express for that. Hope this helps.


    >
    > The problem I see with doing it with a computer
    > program is I can't
    > find a program where I can design it (with all the
    > symbols aready in
    > the program) and then print it where it's 1:1 with
    > the PCB I've
    > designed?
    >
    > If any of you could help me out with eiter of these
    > I'd really
    > appreciate it.
    >
    > Thanks
    > James
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed.
    > Text in the Subject and Body of the message will be
    > ignored.
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    > To visit your group on the web, go to:
    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
    >
    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >


    =====
    Chris Savage
    Knight Designs
    324 West Main Street
    Montour Falls, NY 14865
    (607) 535-6777

    http://www.knightdesigns.com

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