Stamp 2 - Alternate Stamp?
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Posts: 46,084
I have the Stamp 2 book by Tom Petruzzellis. I have sucessfully
rolled my own programming board, similar to Board of Education for my
BS2 IC and Javelin Stamps. I want to roll my own home grown Stamp 2.
The schematic Figure 1-10 on page 12 calls for 4 resistors of unknown
value, C1 of unknown value and a diode. Also the BS2 ic calls for a
ceramic resonator of 20 MHZ. The alternate STAMP 2 does not mention
the resonator. Has anyone had success in building a home grown
solution?
I am waiting for free samples of the pic microcontroller to start
building and post my results.
rolled my own programming board, similar to Board of Education for my
BS2 IC and Javelin Stamps. I want to roll my own home grown Stamp 2.
The schematic Figure 1-10 on page 12 calls for 4 resistors of unknown
value, C1 of unknown value and a diode. Also the BS2 ic calls for a
ceramic resonator of 20 MHZ. The alternate STAMP 2 does not mention
the resonator. Has anyone had success in building a home grown
solution?
I am waiting for free samples of the pic microcontroller to start
building and post my results.
Comments
<davidgarciajr@h...> wrote:
> I have the Stamp 2 book by Tom Petruzzellis. I have sucessfully
> rolled my own programming board, similar to Board of Education for
my
> BS2 IC and Javelin Stamps. I want to roll my own home grown Stamp
2.
> The schematic Figure 1-10 on page 12 calls for 4 resistors of
unknown
> value, C1 of unknown value and a diode. Also the BS2 ic calls for a
> ceramic resonator of 20 MHZ. The alternate STAMP 2 does not mention
> the resonator. Has anyone had success in building a home grown
> solution?
>
> I am waiting for free samples of the pic microcontroller to start
> building and post my results.
Personally, I would preferr that if you want to hack or reverse
engineer someone's products, you don't go publish your works.
I certainly have no interest in your efforts to create some third
party stuff that you will not support.
Consider what your goal is. Parallax created a educational based
device that teaches thousands of people in the simplicity of
microcontrollers.
Parallax generates a profit with which the can afford to have a huge
website and offer free software.
Your plan is to circumvent that business model and eliminate their
profits and close down their free services.
Instead of trying to undermine the works of others, impress us all
and go out and develop your own application and offer the entirety
for free.
Or go out and create some all-capable machine that will put all those
nasty businesses out of business, but make sure also figure a way to
house and feed the millions of people they employ.
Dave
Stamp? You can buy raw parts all day long, but you still have to
purchase the interpreter from us (PBASIC is intellectual property owned
by Parallax and not licensed to anyone else). Yes, you can use a
Stamp-like compiler, but NONE of them are 100% compatible -- and you may
not get the same level of support from the compiler vendor as you will
get from us.
If you're wanting to build a Stamp that is 100% compatible with our code
and projects, we can help. We sell OEM parts and make the schematics
available on our web site. You can find schematics here:
<http://www.parallax.com/html_pages/downloads/basicstamps/documentation_
basic_stamp.asp>
-- Jon Williams
-- Applications Engineer, Parallax
-- Dallas Office
Original Message
From: davidgarciajr [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=CAdKr3sNIh_gin-TGjqgSe8t_zUH2H-DdQh46097r17lNO7XdMW2vP_32tmzQJm-JM31KRVGfsDX5wkERMu3UGlI6yc]davidgarciajr@h...[/url
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 6:56 PM
To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Stamp 2 - Alternate Stamp?
I have the Stamp 2 book by Tom Petruzzellis. I have sucessfully
rolled my own programming board, similar to Board of Education for my
BS2 IC and Javelin Stamps. I want to roll my own home grown Stamp 2.
The schematic Figure 1-10 on page 12 calls for 4 resistors of unknown
value, C1 of unknown value and a diode. Also the BS2 ic calls for a
ceramic resonator of 20 MHZ. The alternate STAMP 2 does not mention
the resonator. Has anyone had success in building a home grown
solution?
I am waiting for free samples of the pic microcontroller to start
building and post my results.
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abuse@p....
anything nice to say, don't say it all and abstain. Pardon yourself
while you burst... into flames.
Just so you know, within the past year I have purchased from Parallax:
Board of Education
BS2 ic
Javelin stamp
IR buddy
RF receiver (don't have the keychain transmiter yet)
How to Build a Combat Robot
2 servos
Stamp 2 Communications and Control Projects by Tom Petruzzelis
Over $300 to feed Parallax and subordinate peons. There is still more
that I plan on purchasing.
Now I am having fun with Basic Stamp 2. Excerpt from the
Communications and Control Projects book I bought from Parallax...
"Another approach to obtaining the STAMP 2 is to build your own...you
can save about half the cost...the alternative Stamp 2 perform
equally well for all of the projects in this book." Figure 1-10 on
page 12 outlines the alternate Stamp 2 schematic in STAMP 2 - Tom
Petruzzelis.
Why would I want to do that? It's a free country.
I am looking for anyone out there that has rolled or thought of
rolling their own alternative stamp 2, especially if you use the
STAMP 2 Communications and Control Projects book.
I recommend the Stamp 2 - Communications and Control Projects, it is
a great book. Make sure to buy directly from Parallax. Make sure to
let them know I referred you and recommended it.
Pinky and I haven't plans to take over the world with PIC's, not yet
any ways! ;-)
-David
<davidgarciajr@h...> wrote:
> First and foremost, don't spam or flame me. If you don't have
> anything nice to say, don't say it all and abstain. Pardon yourself
> while you burst... into flames.
>
> Just so you know, within the past year I have purchased from Parallax:
>
> Board of Education
> BS2 ic
> Javelin stamp
> IR buddy
> RF receiver (don't have the keychain transmiter yet)
> How to Build a Combat Robot
> 2 servos
> Stamp 2 Communications and Control Projects by Tom Petruzzelis
>
> Over $300 to feed Parallax and subordinate peons. There is still more
> that I plan on purchasing.
>
> Now I am having fun with Basic Stamp 2. Excerpt from the
> Communications and Control Projects book I bought from Parallax...
>
> "Another approach to obtaining the STAMP 2 is to build your own...you
> can save about half the cost...the alternative Stamp 2 perform
> equally well for all of the projects in this book." Figure 1-10 on
> page 12 outlines the alternate Stamp 2 schematic in STAMP 2 - Tom
> Petruzzelis.
>
> Why would I want to do that? It's a free country.
>
> I am looking for anyone out there that has rolled or thought of
> rolling their own alternative stamp 2, especially if you use the
> STAMP 2 Communications and Control Projects book.
>
> I recommend the Stamp 2 - Communications and Control Projects, it is
> a great book. Make sure to buy directly from Parallax. Make sure to
> let them know I referred you and recommended it.
>
> Pinky and I haven't plans to take over the world with PIC's, not yet
> any ways! ;-)
>
> -David
I am not familiar with the book you mention. However, I have had a
Homebrew Basic Stamp 2 for the last five years. It is $21 for the
first and $19 each thereafter.
See http://www.phanderson.com/stamp/homebrew.html
Peter H Anderson, http://www.phanderson.com
BS2P40? We currently use the BSII in a product but want to
move up to the BS2p40 to add functionality.
Problem is that for security reasons, I don't want a hacker
to be able to readily identify the product as being stamp
based and we're trying to keep production costs to a minimum
so we can price it within reach of our customers. We already
use many of the parts used in the BSII and we want to take
advantage of our inventory and streamline our mfg processes.
--
Regards
Dave Evartt
American Hovercraft
EOM circuit would look like a standard PIC/SX project. If you used a
surface-mount EEPROM and covered it with an epoxy blob that would
prevent a "hacker" from copying your compiled program.
-- Jon Williams
-- Applications Engineer, Parallax
-- Dallas Office
Original Message
From: Dave Evartt [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=TmBbS9HqaFqLkVKk7HLHj0ftChK4FaLN19wvad__P-a9G5jF87u9CboWAaTg0a501La23CVjFiii4iL8oUNvjBtMjQ]davee@a...[/url
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 9:40 AM
To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Stamp 2 - Alternate Stamp?
Has anyone done a PCB using expresspcb with a BSII or
BS2P40? We currently use the BSII in a product but want to
move up to the BS2p40 to add functionality.
Problem is that for security reasons, I don't want a hacker
to be able to readily identify the product as being stamp
based and we're trying to keep production costs to a minimum
so we can price it within reach of our customers. We already
use many of the parts used in the BSII and we want to take
advantage of our inventory and streamline our mfg processes.
--
Regards
Dave Evartt
American Hovercraft
To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
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abuse@p....
We are going to use the 40P interperter from your company,
but we want to build the BS into the board. For security, we
routinly remove part numbers from chips and renumber them to
add confusion to the hackers. We can build a pcb from the
scematics but just thought we could get a head start on it
if someone already had a pcb done for it. It's only a few
hours work so...
Need the 40P variety because the embeddedblue module we're
adding takes a lot of io pins (6) and we are already using
every io pin on the BSII so we thought we'd try to trim our
mfg costs and add the bluetooth functionality at the same
time.
We are trying to scale up and you guys give a great deal in
large quntities of the interpeter and most of the other
parts we already have.
Just looking for an electronic PCB file for the thing. You
got one? We use expresspcb for our prototypes and they will
convert their proprietary files for a modest fee.
--
Regards
Dave Evartt
American Hovercraft
entrepenuer and making hack proof modules. Please start your own post
and refrain from posting to this one. I'll be happy to look at your
post and add any pertinent information.
I am looking for Basic Stampers that are using Basic Stamp 2
Communications and Control Projects by Tom Petruzzelis and
referencing the alternate stamp 2 design in the book to share OEM BS2
ic vs. alternate stamp 2 designs and experiences.
-David
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Dave Evartt <davee@a...> wrote:
> Jon,
>
> We are going to use the 40P interperter from your company,
> but we want to build the BS into the board. For security, we
> routinly remove part numbers from chips and renumber them to
> add confusion to the hackers. We can build a pcb from the
> scematics but just thought we could get a head start on it
> if someone already had a pcb done for it. It's only a few
> hours work so...
>
> Need the 40P variety because the embeddedblue module we're
> adding takes a lot of io pins (6) and we are already using
> every io pin on the BSII so we thought we'd try to trim our
> mfg costs and add the bluetooth functionality at the same
> time.
>
> We are trying to scale up and you guys give a great deal in
> large quntities of the interpeter and most of the other
> parts we already have.
>
> Just looking for an electronic PCB file for the thing. You
> got one? We use expresspcb for our prototypes and they will
> convert their proprietary files for a modest fee.
> --
> Regards
>
> Dave Evartt
> American Hovercraft
davee@a... writes:
Has anyone done a PCB using expresspcb with a BSII or
BS2P40? We currently use the BSII in a product but want to
move up to the BS2p40 to add functionality.
yes,
very happy with express pcb
[noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It's got some great projects. I also am curious about the alternate
method. I'm not opposed to buying the real deal either (I have
some, and BOEs, and this, and that), but I'd like to try the
alternate for a dedicated project I have in mind. I am doing
initial work with a real BSII though, on a breadboard.
Gerry
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "davidgarciajr"
<davidgarciajr@y...> wrote:
> Somehow my post turned into a cross post from a commercial
> entrepenuer and making hack proof modules. Please start your own
post
> and refrain from posting to this one. I'll be happy to look at
your
> post and add any pertinent information.
>
> I am looking for Basic Stampers that are using Basic Stamp 2
> Communications and Control Projects by Tom Petruzzelis and
> referencing the alternate stamp 2 design in the book to share OEM
BS2
> ic vs. alternate stamp 2 designs and experiences.
>
> -David
>
> --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Dave Evartt <davee@a...> wrote:
> > Jon,
> >
> > We are going to use the 40P interperter from your company,
> > but we want to build the BS into the board. For security, we
> > routinly remove part numbers from chips and renumber them to
> > add confusion to the hackers. We can build a pcb from the
> > scematics but just thought we could get a head start on it
> > if someone already had a pcb done for it. It's only a few
> > hours work so...
> >
> > Need the 40P variety because the embeddedblue module we're
> > adding takes a lot of io pins (6) and we are already using
> > every io pin on the BSII so we thought we'd try to trim our
> > mfg costs and add the bluetooth functionality at the same
> > time.
> >
> > We are trying to scale up and you guys give a great deal in
> > large quntities of the interpeter and most of the other
> > parts we already have.
> >
> > Just looking for an electronic PCB file for the thing. You
> > got one? We use expresspcb for our prototypes and they will
> > convert their proprietary files for a modest fee.
> > --
> > Regards
> >
> > Dave Evartt
> > American Hovercraft
to do something commercial with it is no excuse for poor
manners though. nuf said.
--
Regards
Dave Evartt
American Hovercraft
> I am looking for anyone out there that has rolled or thought
> of rolling their own alternative stamp 2, especially if you use
> the STAMP 2 Communications and Control Projects book.
>
Personally, I'm just ignoring you until you answer Jon Williams' question:
> I'm fuzzy as to what your goal is. Are you hoping to get a cheaper
> Stamp? You can buy raw parts all day long, but you still have to
> purchase the interpreter from us (PBASIC is intellectual property
> owned by Parallax and not licensed to anyone else).
>
If you're trying to build a Stamp board from the OEM Stamps that Parallax
sells, that's one topic and worth my attention. If you're trying to build a
PIC-based microprocessor system that will run your own version of a Basic
interpreter, that's another topic. A legitimate one, but it belongs on a
different list. If you're trying to steal the Parallax PBasic interpreter
and build your own board around it, then that's yet another topic -- and an
offensive one.
Did I miss your answer to Jon?
Not being nasty, just asking.
Gary
>a great book.
Hi David,
I hadn't seen the book until you mentioned it, and I found it at my
local bookstore. Yes a lot of nice projects!
In fact the one for chapter 5 "IrDA communicator" is practically
verbatim off of my web page at
<http://www.emesystems.com/BS2IrDA.htm>. I do recall giving
qualified permission to the author, for him borrow from that
material, but I was quite surprised to find it there whole cloth
without the least bit of attribution or acknowledgement. (hmmmm)
>The schematic Figure 1-10 on page 12 calls for 4 resistors of unknown
>value, C1 of unknown value and a diode. Also the BS2 ic calls for a
>ceramic resonator of 20 MHZ. The alternate STAMP 2 does not mention
>the resonator.
Some of the parts values are given in the text. In particular, that
the PIC has to be a genuine PBASIC interpreter chip from Parallax.
Some of the other parts are not covered, as you noticed.
R1: ~4.7 kohm, pullup for eeprom serial data line
R2: this resistor (pullup on sck) is not necessary.
R3: ~1kohm, isolate the MAX232 from the pushbutton.
the MAX232 provides an internal 5kohm pulldown on the DTR input
but you may want to add a capacitor between the input and DTR.
R4: ~4.7 kohm, serial port crossover
D1: 1N4148 or just about any diode.
C1: 4.7 uF, power supply filter
C2-C5: 1uF, MAX232 charge pump
resonator: 20mhz ceramic. The schematic does not show it, but needs it!
resistor: 100 kohm feedback for resonator, also needed.
You really can get a good deal on the DIY BASIC Stamp kit from Prof.
Peter Anderson, along with good tutorials:
http://www.phanderson.com/stamp/homebrew.html
-- regards
Tracy Allen
http://www.emesystems.com
Buy the book or read the posts and that may help understand. Creating
the ALT BS2 was a project listed in the book.
I don't appreciate being attacked for my interest in pursuing this
hobby and trying the experiment to make an ALT BS2 from the book,
STAMP 2 - Communications and Control Projects by Tom Petruzzellis
purchased from Parallax.
For those that have the book and posted, thanks for your posts. It
really is a great book and I am looking forward to collaberating with
all regardless of OEM BS2 or ALT BS2.
Flamers, cross posters, and self righteous intellectual property
flamers refrain from this post.
The rude cross postings, flames and personal attacks are not quite
what I expected and not a very pleasant experience to a newbie.
I am still waiting on parts to roll the ALT BS2. Anyone had any luck
with it yet?
-David
'No wonder it took so long to get out of the stone age! Knowledge is
power - Share the knowledge.'
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Gary W. Sims" <simsgw@c...>
wrote:
> From: "davidgarciajr" <davidgarciajr@h...>
>
> > I am looking for anyone out there that has rolled or thought
> > of rolling their own alternative stamp 2, especially if you use
> > the STAMP 2 Communications and Control Projects book.
> >
> Personally, I'm just ignoring you until you answer Jon Williams'
question:
>
> > I'm fuzzy as to what your goal is. Are you hoping to get a
cheaper
> > Stamp? You can buy raw parts all day long, but you still have to
> > purchase the interpreter from us (PBASIC is intellectual property
> > owned by Parallax and not licensed to anyone else).
> >
> If you're trying to build a Stamp board from the OEM Stamps that
Parallax
> sells, that's one topic and worth my attention. If you're trying to
build a
> PIC-based microprocessor system that will run your own version of a
Basic
> interpreter, that's another topic. A legitimate one, but it belongs
on a
> different list. If you're trying to steal the Parallax PBasic
interpreter
> and build your own board around it, then that's yet another topic --
and an
> offensive one.
>
> Did I miss your answer to Jon?
>
> Not being nasty, just asking.
>
> Gary
<davidgarciajr@h...> wrote:
> First and foremost, don't spam or flame me. If you don't have
> anything nice to say, don't say it all and abstain. Pardon yourself
> while you burst... into flames.
>
> Over $300 to feed Parallax and subordinate peons.
<snip>
> Why would I want to do that? It's a free country.
>
<snip>
>
> Pinky and I haven't plans to take over the world with PIC's, not
yet
> any ways! ;-)
>
> -David
Hi David,
No flames, but once in awhile some 'genius' realizes that it is
possible to use other microcontrolers so as to do the same thing as a
Stamp.
I'm on a few other lists and will recommend to beginners to spend the
hundred bux to buy the Stamp. It is an investment in yourself and
your education. Any idea how much a course in a community collage
costs these days ?
The 'problem' with the suggestion of going the back-door route is
that the grasshopper then asks for support from all quarters,
typically here, but has not helped to keep this list and the people
here employed with a few pittance.
Dave
who has no connection to Parallax and gets no financial benefit from
them.
here and we're getting mixed up.
--
Regards
Dave Evartt
American Hovercraft
What is exactly ALT BS2 ?
I don't have that book.
Regards.
Mensaje citado por davidgarciajr <davidgarciajr@y...>:
> Answer? What? This is a free country. I'll do as I please.
>
> Buy the book or read the posts and that may help understand. Creating
> the ALT BS2 was a project listed in the book.
>
> I don't appreciate being attacked for my interest in pursuing this
> hobby and trying the experiment to make an ALT BS2 from the book,
> STAMP 2 - Communications and Control Projects by Tom Petruzzellis
> purchased from Parallax.
>
> For those that have the book and posted, thanks for your posts. It
> really is a great book and I am looking forward to collaberating with
> all regardless of OEM BS2 or ALT BS2.
>
> Flamers, cross posters, and self righteous intellectual property
> flamers refrain from this post.
>
> The rude cross postings, flames and personal attacks are not quite
> what I expected and not a very pleasant experience to a newbie.
>
> I am still waiting on parts to roll the ALT BS2. Anyone had any luck
> with it yet?
>
> -David
>
> 'No wonder it took so long to get out of the stone age! Knowledge is
> power - Share the knowledge.'
>
> --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Gary W. Sims" <simsgw@c...>
> wrote:
> > From: "davidgarciajr" <davidgarciajr@h...>
> >
> > > I am looking for anyone out there that has rolled or thought
> > > of rolling their own alternative stamp 2, especially if you use
> > > the STAMP 2 Communications and Control Projects book.
> > >
> > Personally, I'm just ignoring you until you answer Jon Williams'
> question:
> >
> > > I'm fuzzy as to what your goal is. Are you hoping to get a
> cheaper
> > > Stamp? You can buy raw parts all day long, but you still have to
> > > purchase the interpreter from us (PBASIC is intellectual property
> > > owned by Parallax and not licensed to anyone else).
> > >
> > If you're trying to build a Stamp board from the OEM Stamps that
> Parallax
> > sells, that's one topic and worth my attention. If you're trying to
> build a
> > PIC-based microprocessor system that will run your own version of a
> Basic
> > interpreter, that's another topic. A legitimate one, but it belongs
> on a
> > different list. If you're trying to steal the Parallax PBasic
> interpreter
> > and build your own board around it, then that's yet another topic --
> and an
> > offensive one.
> >
> > Did I miss your answer to Jon?
> >
> > Not being nasty, just asking.
> >
> > Gary
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
> Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>>
>> [noparse][[/noparse]...]
>> Did I miss your answer to Jon?
>>
>> Not being nasty, just asking.
>>
From: "davidgarciajr" <davidgarciajr@y...>
> Answer? What? This is a free country. I'll do as I please.
> [noparse][[/noparse]...]
I'm sure you will. But you asked for help doing it which involves the rest
of us. Since you decline to answer a civil question about your project goal,
I'll do as I please and continue to ignore you.
> I don't appreciate being attacked for my interest in pursuing
> this hobby and trying the experiment to make an ALT BS2 [noparse][[/noparse]...]
And if you consider that decision an attack, that also is your choice.
Gary
the level of experience and the knowledge to "clone" a Stamp it
should be very very easy to buy en program a PIC or some similar chip.
I just don't understand the fuzz about this topic. Or is the problem
here the lack of experience, knowledge, vision or just money??
Hmmmmmm!!
Regards,
Klaus
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Gary W. Sims" <simsgw@c...>
wrote:
> > From: "Gary W. Sims" simsgw@c...
> >>
> >> [noparse][[/noparse]...]
> >> Did I miss your answer to Jon?
> >>
> >> Not being nasty, just asking.
> >>
>
> From: "davidgarciajr" <davidgarciajr@y...>
>
> > Answer? What? This is a free country. I'll do as I please.
> > [noparse][[/noparse]...]
>
> I'm sure you will. But you asked for help doing it which involves
the rest
> of us. Since you decline to answer a civil question about your
project goal,
> I'll do as I please and continue to ignore you.
>
> > I don't appreciate being attacked for my interest in pursuing
> > this hobby and trying the experiment to make an ALT BS2 [noparse][[/noparse]...]
>
> And if you consider that decision an attack, that also is your
choice.
>
> Gary
klausdejong@x... writes:
> I just don't understand the fuzz about this topic. Or is the problem
> here the lack of experience, knowledge, vision or just money??
>
I don't understand it either. Can we just put this topic behind us?
Sid
[noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
want to read your emails that have been filling my mail box.
Geoffrey
Original Message
From: klausdejong
To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 6:29 PM
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Stamp 2 - Alternate Stamp?
I might mis the point in this discussion but to my opinion if one has
the level of experience and the knowledge to "clone" a Stamp it
should be very very easy to buy en program a PIC or some similar chip.
I just don't understand the fuzz about this topic. Or is the problem
here the lack of experience, knowledge, vision or just money??
Hmmmmmm!!
Regards,
Klaus
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Gary W. Sims" <simsgw@c...>
wrote:
> > From: "Gary W. Sims" simsgw@c...
> >>
> >> [noparse][[/noparse]...]
> >> Did I miss your answer to Jon?
> >>
> >> Not being nasty, just asking.
> >>
>
> From: "davidgarciajr" <davidgarciajr@y...>
>
> > Answer? What? This is a free country. I'll do as I please.
> > [noparse][[/noparse]...]
>
> I'm sure you will. But you asked for help doing it which involves
the rest
> of us. Since you decline to answer a civil question about your
project goal,
> I'll do as I please and continue to ignore you.
>
> > I don't appreciate being attacked for my interest in pursuing
> > this hobby and trying the experiment to make an ALT BS2 [noparse][[/noparse]...]
>
> And if you consider that decision an attack, that also is your
choice.
>
> Gary
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