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Need Info on GPS

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2003-12-29 21:49 in General Discussion
Hey everyone!

I want to use GPS to track the flight of my RC plane. Has anyone
done this already and also can anyone suggest any reputable
companies that sell quality GPS modules? I want fairly descent
resolution say less than 2 meters or so (preferably less than 1m
since next I would like to build a robot that uses GPS to navigate
around my yard). Also are there any good sources that document GPS
data logging with a BS2 (BS2p24 specifically).

Many thanks
Arridh

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-29 15:23
    We do this all the time at Parallax -- one of our favorite demos is a
    model airplane with a GPS datalogger, then we export the data to Excel
    for graphing. We use off-the-shelf Garmin GPS units and live with the
    10 meter resolution they provide; you're not going to get any better
    than that (I think) unless you setup a differential GPS system.

    I've written about GPS twice in my Nuts & Volts column:

    http://www.parallax.com/dl/docs/cols/nv/vol3/col/83.pdf
    http://www.parallax.com/dl/docs/cols/nv/vol4/col/103.pdf

    I believe you will find a file called AeroGPS.BSP in the File section of
    Yahoo Groups, though I can't confirm it right now because it's not
    letting me in....

    -- Jon Williams
    -- Applications Engineer, Parallax
    -- Dallas Office



    Original Message
    From: arridh_shashank [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=7lojdJm9QbLqP-MZonQ1Aalkzr69GOmQwCb7ZrMqQutl9VP60ntrpUvXJhSuu-20OcdsT17v4MF2nmJH-v7nXwptxmbncfI]arridh_shashank@y...[/url
    Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 9:00 AM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Need Info on GPS


    Hey everyone!

    I want to use GPS to track the flight of my RC plane. Has anyone
    done this already and also can anyone suggest any reputable
    companies that sell quality GPS modules? I want fairly descent
    resolution say less than 2 meters or so (preferably less than 1m
    since next I would like to build a robot that uses GPS to navigate
    around my yard). Also are there any good sources that document GPS
    data logging with a BS2 (BS2p24 specifically).

    Many thanks
    Arridh


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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-29 15:40
    I would be interested in what people have done using differential GPS for
    navigation. I would like resolution down to 1 foot for a robot. Maybe throw
    out GPS entirely and use some other triangulation method?
    Any advise would be appreciated.
    -Kerry

    At 07:23 AM 12/29/03 -0800, you wrote:
    >We do this all the time at Parallax -- one of our favorite demos is a
    >model airplane with a GPS datalogger, then we export the data to Excel
    >for graphing. We use off-the-shelf Garmin GPS units and live with the
    >10 meter resolution they provide; you're not going to get any better
    >than that (I think) unless you setup a differential GPS system.
    >
    >I've written about GPS twice in my Nuts & Volts column:
    >
    >http://www.parallax.com/dl/docs/cols/nv/vol3/col/83.pdf
    >http://www.parallax.com/dl/docs/cols/nv/vol4/col/103.pdf
    >
    >I believe you will find a file called AeroGPS.BSP in the File section of
    >Yahoo Groups, though I can't confirm it right now because it's not
    >letting me in....
    >
    >-- Jon Williams
    >-- Applications Engineer, Parallax
    >-- Dallas Office
    >
    >
    >
    >
    Original Message
    >From: arridh_shashank [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=mqpFKQXJ0RUDBmhoiH_lkBoudd0rpVpOgy41Qqd2iihCxZL5ssCJ3qBEdQfebJy2sqCD5MqbGhcEr6lC7FSMQhURBWM]arridh_shashank@y...[/url
    >Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 9:00 AM
    >To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    >Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Need Info on GPS
    >
    >
    >Hey everyone!
    >
    >I want to use GPS to track the flight of my RC plane. Has anyone
    >done this already and also can anyone suggest any reputable
    >companies that sell quality GPS modules? I want fairly descent
    >resolution say less than 2 meters or so (preferably less than 1m
    >since next I would like to build a robot that uses GPS to navigate
    >around my yard). Also are there any good sources that document GPS
    >data logging with a BS2 (BS2p24 specifically).
    >
    >Many thanks
    >Arridh
    >
    >
    >To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
    >and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    >Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    >To visit your group on the web, go to:
    >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
    >
    >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    >basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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    >
    >
    >
    >This message has been scanned by WebShield. Please report SPAM to
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    >
    Very respectfully, your obedient servant.
    Brig. Gen. Johnston Pettigrew

    Admin@M...
    WWW server hosting [url=Http://mntnweb.com]Http://mntnweb.com[/url]
    Kerry Barlow
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    kirkwood ny
    13795
    607-775-1575
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-29 16:53
    GPS accuracy from a standard Garmin type of GPS unit
    is good to about plus or minus 30 foot of error in the
    X,Y coordinate system and double that for the
    altitude. You can get more accurate using an L1/L2 GPS
    reciever. A reciever to get you to accuracies of about
    1 foot of error will cost about $3,000. To get down to
    centimeter accuracy your talking about a $5,000-7,000
    receiver. Also these receivers require differential
    corrections which you'd get from a base station
    (another $10,000 - includes radio) or using the
    Omnistar correction data from their satellites. You
    could try two regular garmin GPS receivers and hold
    one on a fixed point and transmit the error
    corrections via radio to the roving unit. This can
    work reasonably well provided you don't stray to far
    from the fixed unit. Regardless of what you do I
    believe you'll find that differential corrections will
    require some form of radio telemetry, even the WAAS
    system.

    Perhaps some sort of sonar system with an electronic
    compass could give position for enclosed spaces.

    Eric



    --- Kerry Barlow <admin@m...> wrote:
    > I would be interested in what people have done using
    > differential GPS for
    > navigation. I would like resolution down to 1 foot
    > for a robot. Maybe throw
    > out GPS entirely and use some other triangulation
    > method?
    > Any advise would be appreciated.
    > -Kerry
    >
    > At 07:23 AM 12/29/03 -0800, you wrote:
    > >We do this all the time at Parallax -- one of our
    > favorite demos is a
    > >model airplane with a GPS datalogger, then we
    > export the data to Excel
    > >for graphing. We use off-the-shelf Garmin GPS
    > units and live with the
    > >10 meter resolution they provide; you're not going
    > to get any better
    > >than that (I think) unless you setup a differential
    > GPS system.
    > >
    > >I've written about GPS twice in my Nuts & Volts
    > column:
    > >
    >
    >http://www.parallax.com/dl/docs/cols/nv/vol3/col/83.pdf
    >
    >http://www.parallax.com/dl/docs/cols/nv/vol4/col/103.pdf
    > >
    > >I believe you will find a file called AeroGPS.BSP
    > in the File section of
    > >Yahoo Groups, though I can't confirm it right now
    > because it's not
    > >letting me in....
    > >
    > >-- Jon Williams
    > >-- Applications Engineer, Parallax
    > >-- Dallas Office
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    Original Message
    > >From: arridh_shashank
    > [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=usT4pAlHkaIP4fE7UkZwwo57jCcPjvpCh1q85MjKBV2aRCEQEYGnlzvOWea0ICUfNdjUa2-EwR03VHH-30VLEyCg7OHF]arridh_shashank@y...[/url
    > >Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 9:00 AM
    > >To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > >Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Need Info on GPS
    > >
    > >
    > >Hey everyone!
    > >
    > >I want to use GPS to track the flight of my RC
    > plane. Has anyone
    > >done this already and also can anyone suggest any
    > reputable
    > >companies that sell quality GPS modules? I want
    > fairly descent
    > >resolution say less than 2 meters or so (preferably
    > less than 1m
    > >since next I would like to build a robot that uses
    > GPS to navigate
    > >around my yard). Also are there any good sources
    > that document GPS
    > >data logging with a BS2 (BS2p24 specifically).
    > >
    > >Many thanks
    > >Arridh
    > >
    > >
    > >To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > >from the same email address that you subscribed.
    > Text in the Subject
    > >and Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >
    > >
    > >Yahoo! Groups Links
    > >
    > >To visit your group on the web, go to:
    > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
    > >
    > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > >basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > >
    > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >This message has been scanned by WebShield. Please
    > report SPAM to
    > >abuse@p....
    > >
    > >
    > >To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > >from the same email address that you subscribed.
    > Text in the Subject and
    > Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >
    > >
    > >Yahoo! Groups Links
    > >
    > >To visit your group on the web, go to:
    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
    > >
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    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > >
    > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
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    > >
    > >
    > >
    > Very respectfully, your obedient servant.
    > Brig. Gen. Johnston Pettigrew
    >
    > Admin@M...
    > WWW server hosting [url=Http://mntnweb.com]Http://mntnweb.com[/url]
    > Kerry Barlow
    > p.o. box 21
    > kirkwood ny
    > 13795
    > 607-775-1575
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed.
    > Text in the Subject and Body of the message will be
    > ignored.
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
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    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
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    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-29 18:39
    arridh_shashank wrote:
    |I want to use GPS to track the flight of my RC plane.... I want fairly
    descent
    |resolution say less than 2 meters or so (preferably less than 1m

    I don't think this sort of resolution is possible with the standard GPS
    receivers currently available for the normal consumer i.e.Garmin etc. Where
    WAAS is available, it is posible to achieve perhaps 2 to 5 meters otherwise
    you will have to be content with 5 to 10 meters. I am not positive that WAAS
    is available to you in Oz. You might want to direct a query about resolution
    to the folks that hang out at sci.geo.satellite-nav or alt.satellite.gps
    newsgroups.

    BTW: there are WAAS receiver modules available. Check the garmin website or
    google WAAS.

    HTH

    Vic
    ________________________________________________________

    Victor Fraenckel - The Windman
    vfraenc1 ATSIGN nycap DOT rr DOTcom
    KC2GUI

    Home of the WindReader Electronic Theodolite
    Read the WIND

    "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long
    and hard the road may be; for without victory there is no survival."
    - Winston [noparse][[/noparse]Leonard Spencer] Churchill (1874 - 1965)

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    -Count Oxenstierna (ca 1620) to the young King Gustavus Adolphus
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-29 21:06
    YIKES, expensive!: Sounds like I need some other scheme for positioning. I
    am sure this position problem has been done many times before, but I have
    not found any articles on how it is done on the web.
    -Kerry

    At 08:53 AM 12/29/03 -0800, you wrote:
    >GPS accuracy from a standard Garmin type of GPS unit
    >is good to about plus or minus 30 foot of error in the
    >X,Y coordinate system and double that for the
    >altitude. You can get more accurate using an L1/L2 GPS
    >reciever. A reciever to get you to accuracies of about
    >1 foot of error will cost about $3,000. To get down to
    >centimeter accuracy your talking about a $5,000-7,000
    >receiver. Also these receivers require differential
    >corrections which you'd get from a base station
    >(another $10,000 - includes radio) or using the
    >Omnistar correction data from their satellites. You
    >could try two regular garmin GPS receivers and hold
    >one on a fixed point and transmit the error
    >corrections via radio to the roving unit. This can
    >work reasonably well provided you don't stray to far
    >from the fixed unit. Regardless of what you do I
    >believe you'll find that differential corrections will
    >require some form of radio telemetry, even the WAAS
    >system.
    >
    >Perhaps some sort of sonar system with an electronic
    >compass could give position for enclosed spaces.
    >
    >Eric
    >
    >
    >
    >--- Kerry Barlow <admin@m...> wrote:
    >> I would be interested in what people have done using
    >> differential GPS for
    >> navigation. I would like resolution down to 1 foot
    >> for a robot. Maybe throw
    >> out GPS entirely and use some other triangulation
    >> method?
    >> Any advise would be appreciated.
    >> -Kerry
    >>
    >> At 07:23 AM 12/29/03 -0800, you wrote:
    >> >We do this all the time at Parallax -- one of our
    >> favorite demos is a
    >> >model airplane with a GPS datalogger, then we
    >> export the data to Excel
    >> >for graphing. We use off-the-shelf Garmin GPS
    >> units and live with the
    >> >10 meter resolution they provide; you're not going
    >> to get any better
    >> >than that (I think) unless you setup a differential
    >> GPS system.
    >> >
    >> >I've written about GPS twice in my Nuts & Volts
    >> column:
    >> >
    >>
    >>http://www.parallax.com/dl/docs/cols/nv/vol3/col/83.pdf
    >>
    >>http://www.parallax.com/dl/docs/cols/nv/vol4/col/103.pdf
    >> >
    >> >I believe you will find a file called AeroGPS.BSP
    >> in the File section of
    >> >Yahoo Groups, though I can't confirm it right now
    >> because it's not
    >> >letting me in....
    >> >
    >> >-- Jon Williams
    >> >-- Applications Engineer, Parallax
    >> >-- Dallas Office
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    Original Message
    >> >From: arridh_shashank
    >> [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=oQyIIf0eurIRUr2Pb99KA-IOj7zB_FhV67aICdYeTGJX0DO7caOnciszc3P_mYa2pz5eN5sp_GAlWqGYg-2eNUEo4L0MELg]arridh_shashank@y...[/url
    >> >Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 9:00 AM
    >> >To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    >> >Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Need Info on GPS
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >Hey everyone!
    >> >
    >> >I want to use GPS to track the flight of my RC
    >> plane. Has anyone
    >> >done this already and also can anyone suggest any
    >> reputable
    >> >companies that sell quality GPS modules? I want
    >> fairly descent
    >> >resolution say less than 2 meters or so (preferably
    >> less than 1m
    >> >since next I would like to build a robot that uses
    >> GPS to navigate
    >> >around my yard). Also are there any good sources
    >> that document GPS
    >> >data logging with a BS2 (BS2p24 specifically).
    >> >
    >> >Many thanks
    >> >Arridh
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    >> > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >> >from the same email address that you subscribed.
    >> Text in the Subject
    >> >and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
    >> >
    >> >To visit your group on the web, go to:
    >> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
    >> >
    >> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    >> >basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >> >
    >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    >> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >This message has been scanned by WebShield. Please
    >> report SPAM to
    >> >abuse@p....
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    >> > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >> >from the same email address that you subscribed.
    >> Text in the Subject and
    >> Body of the message will be ignored.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
    >> >
    >> >To visit your group on the web, go to:
    >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
    >> >
    >> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    >> > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >> >
    >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
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    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> Very respectfully, your obedient servant.
    >> Brig. Gen. Johnston Pettigrew
    >>
    >> Admin@M...
    >> WWW server hosting [url=Http://mntnweb.com]Http://mntnweb.com[/url]
    >> Kerry Barlow
    >> p.o. box 21
    >> kirkwood ny
    >> 13795
    >> 607-775-1575
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    >> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >> from the same email address that you subscribed.
    >> Text in the Subject and Body of the message will be
    >> ignored.
    >>
    >>
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    >>
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    >>
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    >>
    >
    >
    >To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
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    Body of the message will be ignored.
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    >
    Very respectfully, your obedient servant.
    Brig. Gen. Johnston Pettigrew

    Admin@M...
    WWW server hosting [url=Http://mntnweb.com]Http://mntnweb.com[/url]
    Kerry Barlow
    p.o. box 21
    kirkwood ny
    13795
    607-775-1575
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-29 21:49
    Hi Kerry:

    I don't think you are going to get down to 1 foot without what's called
    Real Time Kinematic survey grade equipment that's expensive.
    What called poor man's DGPS, just correcting the Lat and Lon based on a
    reference receiver really does not work.
    DGPS will improve the solution but requires a real time link from the
    base station or a DGPS receiver to the rover.
    But there's a way to do DGPS with only a single receiver that has
    special capability, i.e. the ability to both generate and utilize DGPS
    corrections, like the Motorola GPS modules. For more on this check out
    U.S. Patent 6397147
    <http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%\
    2Fnetahtml%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6397147.WKU.&OS=PN/6397147&RS=PN/639714\
    7
    >

    Have Fun,

    Brooke Clarke, N6GCE
    http://www.PRC68.com

    >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:40:20 -0500
    > From: Kerry Barlow <admin@m...>
    >Subject: RE: Need Info on GPS
    >
    >I would be interested in what people have done using differential GPS for
    >navigation. I would like resolution down to 1 foot for a robot. Maybe throw
    >out GPS entirely and use some other triangulation method?
    >Any advise would be appreciated.
    >-Kerry
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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