Basic Stamp Web Browser
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Posts: 46,084
Has any one ever thought of using a Basic Stamp, GUI panel and some
simple web browser software to make a portable or semi portable web
browser. Just wondering if it is possible to make an internet
appliance with a basic stamp. I have seen the web server modules,
but could they also be used as a web browser to display on a
LCD/Stamp device.
simple web browser software to make a portable or semi portable web
browser. Just wondering if it is possible to make an internet
appliance with a basic stamp. I have seen the web server modules,
but could they also be used as a web browser to display on a
LCD/Stamp device.
Comments
Original Message
From: "d_mahfad" <d_mahfad@y...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 10:35 AM
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Basic Stamp Web Browser
> Has any one ever thought of using a Basic Stamp, GUI panel and some
> simple web browser software to make a portable or semi portable web
> browser. Just wondering if it is possible to make an internet
> appliance with a basic stamp. I have seen the web server modules,
> but could they also be used as a web browser to display on a
> LCD/Stamp device.
>
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
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>
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>
>
>
thrown down.
--
Regards
Dave Evartt
American Hovercraft
Yes, someone out here has thought about doing a web browser. I have.
If a Stamp can send and received data from the 'Net, I would be
shocked if one couldn't be configured to be a browser.
Down the road a piece, I plan on having my robots be web based. Part
of that includes a Stamp based web browser.
You may write me directly using my screen name at yahoo.com.
I got to get my first robot done. It is going extremely well! Am
missing one part and then just have to assemble everything. All the
pieces are already tested.
Best wishes,
Frank
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Staph" <rstaph@d...>
wrote:
> Something like that could never be done with the basic or javelin
stamp.
>
>
>
>
Original Message
> From: "d_mahfad" <d_mahfad@y...>
> To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 10:35 AM
> Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Basic Stamp Web Browser
>
>
> > Has any one ever thought of using a Basic Stamp, GUI panel and
some
> > simple web browser software to make a portable or semi portable
web
> > browser. Just wondering if it is possible to make an internet
> > appliance with a basic stamp. I have seen the web server modules,
> > but could they also be used as a web browser to display on a
> > LCD/Stamp device.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
Subject and
> Body of the message will be ignored.
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
wrote:
> Something like that could never be done with the basic or javelin
stamp.
1959 Old what his name at IBM said their would never be more than a
handful of computers made.
1979 IBM said their would never be more than 10,000 PC made. LOL.
Maybe per hour.
1999 IBM marketing group said there will never be a demand of
computers that boot from a network. This too will be proven wrong.
>
>
>
>
Original Message
> From: "d_mahfad" <d_mahfad@y...>
> To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 10:35 AM
> Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Basic Stamp Web Browser
>
>
> > Has any one ever thought of using a Basic Stamp, GUI panel and
some
> > simple web browser software to make a portable or semi portable
web
> > browser. Just wondering if it is possible to make an internet
> > appliance with a basic stamp. I have seen the web server modules,
> > but could they also be used as a web browser to display on a
> > LCD/Stamp device.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
Subject and
> Body of the message will be ignored.
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
Would be glad to work on this if you would like.
Take care,
Frank
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Dave Evartt <davee@a...> wrote:
> famous last words. LOL Sounds like the guantlet has been
> thrown down.
> --
> Regards
>
> Dave Evartt
> American Hovercraft
system.
--
Regards
Dave Evartt
American Hovercraft
system.
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Dave Evartt <davee@a...> wrote:
> Bill Gates once said 640K is enough memory for an operating
> system.
> --
> Regards
>
> Dave Evartt
> American Hovercraft
scope, not a particular piece of technology, which has very fixed limits.
My impression is, the stamp doesn't have the memory resources, processor
power, or memory storage to implement a TCP/IP stack, which sometimes can
be tricky. One could probably implement SL/IP and attach it to the stamp,
but this would be sort of cheating. It would also be nontrivial to write
an ethernet device driver.
And BTW sun systems have been successfully running diskless & netbooting
since at least the 80's.
On Sun, 28 Dec 2003, franksmith512 wrote:
> --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Staph" <rstaph@d...>
> wrote:
> > Something like that could never be done with the basic or javelin
> stamp.
>
> 1959 Old what his name at IBM said their would never be more than a
> handful of computers made.
>
> 1979 IBM said their would never be more than 10,000 PC made. LOL.
> Maybe per hour.
>
> 1999 IBM marketing group said there will never be a demand of
> computers that boot from a network. This too will be proven wrong.
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
Original Message
> > From: "d_mahfad" <d_mahfad@y...>
> > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 10:35 AM
> > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Basic Stamp Web Browser
> >
> >
> > > Has any one ever thought of using a Basic Stamp, GUI panel and
> some
> > > simple web browser software to make a portable or semi portable
> web
> > > browser. Just wondering if it is possible to make an internet
> > > appliance with a basic stamp. I have seen the web server modules,
> > > but could they also be used as a web browser to display on a
> > > LCD/Stamp device.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
> Subject and
> > Body of the message will be ignored.
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
>
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>
>
Sean T. Lamont, CTO / Chief NetNerd, Abstract Software, Inc. (ServNet)
Seattle - Bellingham - Vancouver - Portland - Everett - Tacoma - Bremerton
email: lamont@a... WWW: http://www.serv.net
"Do not fear mistakes, There Are None" - Miles Davis
>You're making quotes about technology, which is effectively infinite in
>scope, not a particular piece of technology, which has very fixed limits.
>My impression is, the stamp doesn't have the memory resources, processor
>power, or memory storage to implement a TCP/IP stack, which sometimes can
>be tricky. One could probably implement SL/IP and attach it to the stamp,
>but this would be sort of cheating. It would also be nontrivial to write
>an ethernet device driver.
This may change your mind about how large a system you need to implement a
TCP/IP stack, or an entire web server for that matter. This is done on the
smallest PIC made:
http://www-ccs.cs.umass.edu/~shri/iPic.html
>And BTW sun systems have been successfully running diskless & netbooting
>since at least the 80's.
Happy New Year to All !
Regards,
Bruce Bates
operating system. Operating systems abstract the hardware level from the
application level via an API, which is exactly what you don't want to do
when you're writing real-time microcontroller apps.
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003, Allan Lane wrote:
> Gosh, in the BS2, 2K is enough for an operating
> system.
>
> --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Dave Evartt <davee@a...> wrote:
> > Bill Gates once said 640K is enough memory for an operating
> > system.
> > --
> > Regards
> >
> > Dave Evartt
> > American Hovercraft
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
of the message will be ignored.
>
>
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>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
>
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> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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>
>
>
Sean T. Lamont, CTO / Chief NetNerd, Abstract Software, Inc. (ServNet)
Seattle - Bellingham - Vancouver - Portland - Everett - Tacoma - Bremerton
email: lamont@a... WWW: http://www.serv.net
"Do not fear mistakes, There Are None" - Miles Davis
enough resources to run a TCP/IP stack, it's run on the router that the
pic is connected to, and runs SL/IP.
I've also seen a microcontroller with an integrated ethernet / IP stack
which was a little more than the stamp, as I recall. I think it had 'net'
in the name, does anyone know what I'm talking about? I can't find the
reference just now.
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003, Bruce Bates wrote:
> At 10:51 AM 12/30/03 -0800, Sean T. Lamont .lost. wrote:
>
> >You're making quotes about technology, which is effectively infinite in
> >scope, not a particular piece of technology, which has very fixed limits.
> >My impression is, the stamp doesn't have the memory resources, processor
> >power, or memory storage to implement a TCP/IP stack, which sometimes can
> >be tricky. One could probably implement SL/IP and attach it to the stamp,
> >but this would be sort of cheating. It would also be nontrivial to write
> >an ethernet device driver.
>
> This may change your mind about how large a system you need to implement a
> TCP/IP stack, or an entire web server for that matter. This is done on the
> smallest PIC made:
> http://www-ccs.cs.umass.edu/~shri/iPic.html
>
>
> >And BTW sun systems have been successfully running diskless & netbooting
> >since at least the 80's.
>
> Happy New Year to All !
>
> Regards,
>
> Bruce Bates
>
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Sean T. Lamont, CTO / Chief NetNerd, Abstract Software, Inc. (ServNet)
Seattle - Bellingham - Vancouver - Portland - Everett - Tacoma - Bremerton
email: lamont@a... WWW: http://www.serv.net
"Do not fear mistakes, There Are None" - Miles Davis
-Rob
Original Message
From: "Sean T. Lamont .lost." <lamont@a...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Basic Stamp Web Browser
>
> Interesting: this is exactly what I said. The PIC itself doesn't have
> enough resources to run a TCP/IP stack, it's run on the router that the
> pic is connected to, and runs SL/IP.
>
> I've also seen a microcontroller with an integrated ethernet / IP stack
> which was a little more than the stamp, as I recall. I think it had 'net'
> in the name, does anyone know what I'm talking about? I can't find the
> reference just now.
>
> On Tue, 30 Dec 2003, Bruce Bates wrote:
>
> > At 10:51 AM 12/30/03 -0800, Sean T. Lamont .lost. wrote:
> >
> > >You're making quotes about technology, which is effectively infinite in
> > >scope, not a particular piece of technology, which has very fixed
limits.
> > >My impression is, the stamp doesn't have the memory resources,
processor
> > >power, or memory storage to implement a TCP/IP stack, which sometimes
can
> > >be tricky. One could probably implement SL/IP and attach it to the
stamp,
> > >but this would be sort of cheating. It would also be nontrivial to
write
> > >an ethernet device driver.
> >
> > This may change your mind about how large a system you need to implement
a
> > TCP/IP stack, or an entire web server for that matter. This is done on
the
> > smallest PIC made:
> > http://www-ccs.cs.umass.edu/~shri/iPic.html
> >
> >
> > >And BTW sun systems have been successfully running diskless &
netbooting
> > >since at least the 80's.
> >
> > Happy New Year to All !
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Bruce Bates
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
and Body of the message will be ignored.
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
> Sean T. Lamont, CTO / Chief NetNerd, Abstract Software, Inc. (ServNet)
> Seattle - Bellingham - Vancouver - Portland - Everett - Tacoma - Bremerton
> email: lamont@a... WWW: http://www.serv.net
> "Do not fear mistakes, There Are None" - Miles Davis
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
a web browser? Adding ethernet, memory, display, keyboard
and all that other stuff would be cheating wouldn't it?
No processor is worth a darn without it being combined with
other things. That's the whole point. To hold a stamp to
that standard that no other is held to seems unthinkable.
Besides, I can just see it now... Maybe it'll have to wait
for the BS V, LOL
--
Regards
Dave Evartt
American Hovercraft
"TCP/IP Lean" by Jeremy Bentham. He works
at IOSoft, which has published a TCP/IP
stack for PIC 16F877. Note the PIC makes
extensive use of an Ethernet coprocessor
chip's resources. Note also the PIC is
programmed in compiled 'C'.
Microchip has the PICDem.Net board, using
their stack.
Fred Eady www.edtp.com has a couple of low-cost
boards which implement this stack, also.
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Sean T. Lamont .lost."
<lamont@a...> wrote:
>
> Interesting: this is exactly what I said. The PIC itself doesn't
have
> enough resources to run a TCP/IP stack, it's run on the router that
the
> pic is connected to, and runs SL/IP.
>
> I've also seen a microcontroller with an integrated ethernet / IP
stack
> which was a little more than the stamp, as I recall. I think it
had 'net'
> in the name, does anyone know what I'm talking about? I can't find
the
> reference just now.
>
> On Tue, 30 Dec 2003, Bruce Bates wrote:
>
> > At 10:51 AM 12/30/03 -0800, Sean T. Lamont .lost. wrote:
> >
> > >You're making quotes about technology, which is effectively
infinite in
> > >scope, not a particular piece of technology, which has very
fixed limits.
> > >My impression is, the stamp doesn't have the memory resources,
processor
> > >power, or memory storage to implement a TCP/IP stack, which
sometimes can
> > >be tricky. One could probably implement SL/IP and attach it to
the stamp,
> > >but this would be sort of cheating. It would also be nontrivial
to write
> > >an ethernet device driver.
> >
> > This may change your mind about how large a system you need to
implement a
> > TCP/IP stack, or an entire web server for that matter. This is
done on the
> > smallest PIC made:
> > http://www-ccs.cs.umass.edu/~shri/iPic.html
> >
> >
> > >And BTW sun systems have been successfully running diskless &
netbooting
> > >since at least the 80's.
> >
> > Happy New Year to All !
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Bruce Bates
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
> Sean T. Lamont, CTO / Chief NetNerd, Abstract Software, Inc.
(ServNet)
> Seattle - Bellingham - Vancouver - Portland - Everett - Tacoma -
Bremerton
> email: lamont@a... WWW: http://www.serv.net
> "Do not fear mistakes, There Are None" - Miles Davis
browser by making the little wheels type into the browser window. If
you're outsourcing the IP stack itself, you're not precisely an integrated
peripheral.
So, in answer to the question, it's fairly trivial to run a web browser on
a stamp. Get a Pentium, build a unix www client on it, and talk to it via
the serial line.
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003, Dave Evartt wrote:
> Isn't that a lot like saying a pentium couldn't be made into
> a web browser? Adding ethernet, memory, display, keyboard
> and all that other stuff would be cheating wouldn't it?
>
> No processor is worth a darn without it being combined with
> other things. That's the whole point. To hold a stamp to
> that standard that no other is held to seems unthinkable.
> Besides, I can just see it now... Maybe it'll have to wait
> for the BS V, LOL
> --
> Regards
>
> Dave Evartt
> American Hovercraft
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Sean T. Lamont, CTO / Chief NetNerd, Abstract Software, Inc. (ServNet)
Seattle - Bellingham - Vancouver - Portland - Everett - Tacoma - Bremerton
email: lamont@a... WWW: http://www.serv.net
"Do not fear mistakes, There Are None" - Miles Davis
Happy New Year,
Frank
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Dave Evartt <davee@a...> wrote:
> Bill Gates once said 640K is enough memory for an operating
> system.
> --
> Regards
>
> Dave Evartt
> American Hovercraft
BTW, I am actually quite suprised at how much can be stuck into 2K.
My project spans three banks, but alot of that is for variable and
just organization.
Happy New Year,
Frank
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Bates <bvbates@u...> wrote:
> At 10:51 AM 12/30/03 -0800, Sean T. Lamont .lost. wrote:
>
> >You're making quotes about technology, which is effectively
infinite in
> >scope, not a particular piece of technology, which has very fixed
limits.
> >My impression is, the stamp doesn't have the memory resources,
processor
> >power, or memory storage to implement a TCP/IP stack, which
sometimes can
> >be tricky. One could probably implement SL/IP and attach it to the
stamp,
> >but this would be sort of cheating. It would also be nontrivial to
write
> >an ethernet device driver.
>
> This may change your mind about how large a system you need to
implement a
> TCP/IP stack, or an entire web server for that matter. This is done
on the
> smallest PIC made:
> http://www-ccs.cs.umass.edu/~shri/iPic.html
>
>
> >And BTW sun systems have been successfully running diskless &
netbooting
> >since at least the 80's.
>
> Happy New Year to All !
>
> Regards,
>
> Bruce Bates
Frequently words are .lost. on people.
My old boss says that it is impossible to build robots for the
construction industry. I have done rought designs on about five
construction robots. Enough to convince myself that each concept was
feasible and not too expensive.
In the last three weeks I have built one. It is only missing an
RS232 port. Big whoopdy doo. That part didn't get here til
yesterday. In another week or so, it will be ready for the job site.
If I show him that it does work, he still probably won't beleive it.
They don't want to believe. Nothing is going to change their mind.
I am glad there has been people who did belive that made computer so
available within my life time.
Happy New Year,
Frank
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Dave Evartt <davee@a...> wrote:
> Isn't that a lot like saying a pentium couldn't be made into
> a web browser? Adding ethernet, memory, display, keyboard
> and all that other stuff would be cheating wouldn't it?
>
> No processor is worth a darn without it being combined with
> other things. That's the whole point. To hold a stamp to
> that standard that no other is held to seems unthinkable.
> Besides, I can just see it now... Maybe it'll have to wait
> for the BS V, LOL
> --
> Regards
>
> Dave Evartt
> American Hovercraft
you're doing something wrong!'
--
Regards
Dave Evartt
American Hovercraft
--
Regards
Dave Evartt
American Hovercraft
to be a snap, hop to it.
I'll keep my $100 on it being impossible without a ton of support systems.
Its honestly much easier to hop on ebay and nab a P2-300mhz+ laptop if you
want to do something like that. With just the cost of 1 javelin or BSP40
you're half way to one of those.
Yeah, back then xx KB was alot.. But you didn't have 90% of the capability
you do now.. Its nice to look back and see what was being done with so
little. If that way of doing things was so great how did we get where we
are now? People pushed the limits of 64K, accepted the limitations of the
hardware when they had too, did what they could to get by. Then the next
time they used something better. For a web browser, the basicstamp is not
the way to go no matter what your requirements are. Instead of pushing the
limits on the stamp just to get it doing something it will never be good at,
put your money behind an MCU that will do it for sure and still fits your
other needs.
-Rob
Original Message
From: "Dave Evartt" <davee@a...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Basic Stamp Web Browser
> back in 1978 we used to say 'if you can't do it in 64K,
> you're doing something wrong!'
> --
> Regards
>
> Dave Evartt
> American Hovercraft
>
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attention to every byte used and every machine cycle
executed. After the second generation languages came into
being and the 'c' programmers took over the world,
programmers just stooped caring about it. When you think
about nonmultitasking systems, you'd be surprised what you
can do with 64K. witness the popularity of the Basic Stamp
and all the lookalikes that fhave followed it. When you have
compilers that include everything including the kitchen
sink, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why everyone
thinks we needs tons of money, but a computer scientist
knows better.
I never claimed one could build a webbrowser around a stamp,
I merely pointed out the shortsightness of all the people
who don't know how to do things coming off as experts. Good
god, any decent robot is ultimatly more complex than a web
browser, unless you want to qualify the browser with specs
that require a ton so support hardware. Remember, the firs
web browsers were very simple and would easily run in a 64K
space. Sure they didn't do graphics, but I don't remember
graphics being a requirement for a web browser.
In conclusion, I say this. Let the dreamers dream, it's how
we got here in the first place.
--
Regards
Dave Evartt
American Hovercraft
Within 2K, even. I'm just saying that both TCP/IP and web browsers
(even simple ones) are complex creatures. Just the matter of resegmenting
possibly nonlinear packets takes substantial recordkeeping & memory. I
agree in principle that stuff can get bloated, though I think blaming C
is a little misguided. As I recall, kernighan & ritchie developed C to
build efficient code on a 16K operating system. Maybe it was 64K, though,
I'm not sure.
As a matter of historical note, the first web browser was written by tim
berners-lee for the NeXT platform (that's the precursor of OS-X, for those
keeping track...) in 1991, had multiple windowing capability, but no
graphics. It is around 177K, and this doesn't include the TCP/IP stack,
the ethernet device drivers, or anything to talk to the display hardware.
When you include all the libraries to run it, I expect your in the 3-5 meg
range. Some later, textual web browsers were substantially smaller,
though.
Of course, I didn't believe that someone could write a functional IDE
device driver on a stamp, and I saw it come across the list a while back,
so I could be surprised.
On Wed, 31 Dec 2003, Dave Evartt wrote:
> Sorry, the reason is 'bloatware' back then, programmers paid
> attention to every byte used and every machine cycle
> executed. After the second generation languages came into
> being and the 'c' programmers took over the world,
> programmers just stooped caring about it. When you think
> about nonmultitasking systems, you'd be surprised what you
> can do with 64K. witness the popularity of the Basic Stamp
> and all the lookalikes that fhave followed it. When you have
> compilers that include everything including the kitchen
> sink, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why everyone
> thinks we needs tons of money, but a computer scientist
> knows better.
>
> I never claimed one could build a webbrowser around a stamp,
> I merely pointed out the shortsightness of all the people
> who don't know how to do things coming off as experts. Good
> god, any decent robot is ultimatly more complex than a web
> browser, unless you want to qualify the browser with specs
> that require a ton so support hardware. Remember, the firs
> web browsers were very simple and would easily run in a 64K
> space. Sure they didn't do graphics, but I don't remember
> graphics being a requirement for a web browser.
>
> In conclusion, I say this. Let the dreamers dream, it's how
> we got here in the first place.
> --
> Regards
>
> Dave Evartt
> American Hovercraft
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
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>
>
>
Sean T. Lamont, CTO / Chief NetNerd, Abstract Software, Inc. (ServNet)
Seattle - Bellingham - Vancouver - Portland - Everett - Tacoma - Bremerton
email: lamont@a... WWW: http://www.serv.net
"Do not fear mistakes, There Are None" - Miles Davis
> I never claimed one could build a webbrowser around a stamp,
> I merely pointed out the shortsightness of all the people
> who don't know how to do things coming off as experts. Good
> god, any decent robot is ultimatly more complex than a web
> browser, unless you want to qualify the browser with specs
> that require a ton so support hardware. Remember, the firs
> web browsers were very simple and would easily run in a 64K
> space. Sure they didn't do graphics, but I don't remember
> graphics being a requirement for a web browser.
>
For my robots, in the making, I want a web interface. No graphics.
Nothing fancy. Just simple text so I can give them instructions via
the 'Net. I am not out to replace a PC.
> In conclusion, I say this. Let the dreamers dream, it's how
> we got here in the first place.
I whole heartedly agree!
Take care,
Frank
> --
> Regards
>
> Dave Evartt
> American Hovercraft
firmware to make a web browser. What I'm looking for
is an appmod like the ones found for web servers. I
would like to use the Stamp in conjuction with a GUI
panel (possibly Amulet's) and maybe a appmod web
browser.
--- "Sean T. Lamont .lost."
<lamont@a...> a