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Software Choices

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2003-12-29 15:38 in General Discussion
I built a simple Robot which the book recomends Picbasic Pro
software w/Epic programer. About a $300.00+ investment. I can get
the Parallax Radio Shack 79.00 promo pack that includes the Parallax
software and programer. Is the Parallax RS kit going to work like
the Picbasic/Epic recomendation? The book has some programs in it
and I am wondering if the Parallax software will accept the same
commands. The robot is the "Insectronics" walker by Karl Williams.

TIA
rdowellus

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-25 01:46
    If you are an experienced programmer with higher electronic
    education or at least had this hobby for some years, you probably
    can get the PIC work for you. If you only know some basic language
    and familiar with some logic circuitry, like myself, jump strait to
    Basic Stamp.

    Basic Stamp works on your first try, I promise.

    Remember to download the last beta version 2.1 of Basic Stamp editor
    free from:

    [url=Http://www.parallax.com/html_pages/downloads/software/software_basic_]Http://www.parallax.com/html_pages/downloads/software/software_basic_[/url]
    stamp.asp

    One year ago, I had to use a whole PC to control my robotic and lost
    interest due to complexity. But now I do a new project every month,
    and they work.

    Stein.

    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "rdowellus" <rdowellus@y...>
    wrote:
    > I built a simple Robot which the book recomends Picbasic Pro
    > software w/Epic programer. About a $300.00+ investment. I can get
    > the Parallax Radio Shack 79.00 promo pack that includes the
    Parallax
    > software and programer. Is the Parallax RS kit going to work like
    > the Picbasic/Epic recomendation? The book has some programs in it
    > and I am wondering if the Parallax software will accept the same
    > commands. The robot is the "Insectronics" walker by Karl Williams.
    >
    > TIA
    > rdowellus
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-25 02:20
    In a message dated 12/24/2003 1:23:02 PM Pacific Standard Time,
    rdowellus@y... writes:
    I built a simple Robot which the book recomends Picbasic Pro
    software w/Epic programer. About a $300.00+ investment. I can get
    the Parallax Radio Shack 79.00 promo pack that includes the Parallax
    software and programer. Is the Parallax RS kit going to work like
    the Picbasic/Epic recomendation? The book has some programs in it
    and I am wondering if the Parallax software will accept the same
    commands. The robot is the "Insectronics" walker by Karl Williams.

    TIA
    rdowellus

    It is unlikely the program for the pic will directly translate to a stamp
    program. However, MANY people have made robots with the Basic Stamp, and there
    is
    a ton of documentation on the subject.


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-25 05:59
    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "rdowellus" <rdowellus@y...>
    wrote:
    > I built a simple Robot which the book recomends Picbasic Pro
    > software w/Epic programer. About a $300.00+ investment. I can get
    > the Parallax Radio Shack 79.00 promo pack that includes the
    Parallax
    > software and programer. Is the Parallax RS kit going to work like
    > the Picbasic/Epic recomendation? The book has some programs in it
    > and I am wondering if the Parallax software will accept the same
    > commands. The robot is the "Insectronics" walker by Karl Williams.
    >
    > TIA
    > rdowellus

    I think there is a point of view to be taken into account.

    Do you want to learn programming and learn electronics and towards
    that end, are willing to troubleshoot and really get the background
    of learning electronics ?

    Or, are you more interested in seeing your robot move in a short
    period of time ?

    There are people who get delighted by creating circuits, etching the
    boards, drilling the holes, and making the completed board.

    There are others who would rather buy a Board of Education and get
    the circuit to work this afternoon.

    The PIC offers more variety and more complexity than the Stamp.

    The Stamp offers a treasure trove of well documented circuits and
    applications.

    I guess an analogy might be cake.
    If you want a cake, do you go out and buy one?
    or do you go out and buy flour ?

    There a pleanty of people on both sides of the issue, and both are
    right for their purposes.

    Dave
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-25 08:05
    There is no question that the Stamp is very easy to get going. I have been
    selling some OEM BASIC Stamps recently, and one of the things I mention in
    the ad is that the Stamp is probably the easiest and best-supported way to
    start with microcontrollers. And Parallax support is absolutely first
    class -- I've been a happy customer since buying my first Stamp in 1993. As
    others have already said, they just work.

    ...But consider that you are building a robot with multiple PC boards, and
    the boards are already set up for the PIC. They already have the 5V
    regulator and a crystal in place for the PIC's clock signal. All the rest
    of the connections to the PIC are inputs and outputs -- just like you would
    connect to a Stamp. It could actually be slightly more challenging to adapt
    the pre-designed board to the Stamp, compared to using the PIC as Karl had
    intended. If you have the skill and perseverance to get the robot working,
    you could probably handle either hardware approach without difficulty. The
    PIC vs. Stamp issue won't be the determining factor in whether it ends up
    working or not.

    How about programming the PIC? I have supplied numerous customers with the
    EPIC/PicBasic Pro combination -- some with previous Stamp experience and
    some starting from scratch. You write/edit your program in a Windows
    editing environment quite similar to the Stamp editor. When you're ready to
    program the PIC, one mouse click compiles your BASIC code, launches the EPIC
    software, and programs the PIC. Karl provides even more detail about the
    process in his second book, Amphibionics, but it's easy enough. There are a
    few more details to attend to the first time you set it up, but for someone
    building a project like this it should not be a problem. Once you install
    and configure the software, working with the PIC is very much like working
    with the Stamp.

    Like many things, there are pros and cons to either approach. On your first
    day, you would get the Stamp up and running a little faster, no doubt. But
    you're building a walking robot from scratch, including the electronics. In
    that context, neither approach is difficult. Karl used PicBasic Pro because
    it is easy to work with -- we're not talking about assembly language here.
    Once you invest the cost of several Stamps in the tools, you have the
    ability to run your robot (and other projects) with a $3 PIC. Whether that
    sounds appealing may depend on your plans for future projects beyond the one
    Insectronic robot.

    It is not my intention to promote other products on the Stamp list, but the
    responses to your question so far were all on one side, and there are
    definitely two viable alternatives. I hope this helps you make an informed
    decision, and believe you will be successful regardless of your choice.

    Have fun with your robot!

    Randy
    www.glitchbuster.com

    PS -- FYI, Karl has a similar but less complex hexapod project in the
    November and December issues of SERVO Magazine.



    > I built a simple Robot which the book recomends Picbasic Pro
    > software w/Epic programer. About a $300.00+ investment. I can get
    > the Parallax Radio Shack 79.00 promo pack that includes the Parallax
    > software and programer. Is the Parallax RS kit going to work like
    > the Picbasic/Epic recomendation? The book has some programs in it
    > and I am wondering if the Parallax software will accept the same
    > commands. The robot is the "Insectronics" walker by Karl Williams.
    >
    > TIA
    > rdowellus
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-25 13:35
    Randy,
    I picked up from your response that a PIC and a Stamp are not the
    same thing and assume from that they probably will not accept the
    same commands. Up to this point it had not occured to me that there
    was a difference (Duh). I was thinking the Parallax software might
    work on the parts I have already installed (PIC). After comparing
    screenshots of both software packages I had seen many similarities.
    Sounds like I need to stick with the PIC/Epic combo to continue with
    this project though. Wish I would have found the Parallax site and
    this groop sooner. Karls book was on Stampbuilder.com not
    PICbuilder.com. Oooops...My bad. Now I have a minor dilema. Invest
    further in PIC or modify/can the project and switch to Stamp and
    future Stamp projects.

    Thanks to all for excellent responses. This has been a way cool
    project so far and a fantastic education so far.
    Happy Holidays and I'll be back

    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Jones" <randyjones@w...>
    wrote:
    > There is no question that the Stamp is very easy to get going. I
    have been
    > selling some OEM BASIC Stamps recently, and one of the things I
    mention in
    > the ad is that the Stamp is probably the easiest and best-
    supported way to
    > start with microcontrollers. And Parallax support is absolutely
    first
    > class -- I've been a happy customer since buying my first Stamp in
    1993. As
    > others have already said, they just work.
    >
    > ...But consider that you are building a robot with multiple PC
    boards, and
    > the boards are already set up for the PIC. They already have the
    5V
    > regulator and a crystal in place for the PIC's clock signal. All
    the rest
    > of the connections to the PIC are inputs and outputs -- just like
    you would
    > connect to a Stamp. It could actually be slightly more
    challenging to adapt
    > the pre-designed board to the Stamp, compared to using the PIC as
    Karl had
    > intended. If you have the skill and perseverance to get the robot
    working,
    > you could probably handle either hardware approach without
    difficulty. The
    > PIC vs. Stamp issue won't be the determining factor in whether it
    ends up
    > working or not.
    >
    > How about programming the PIC? I have supplied numerous customers
    with the
    > EPIC/PicBasic Pro combination -- some with previous Stamp
    experience and
    > some starting from scratch. You write/edit your program in a
    Windows
    > editing environment quite similar to the Stamp editor. When
    you're ready to
    > program the PIC, one mouse click compiles your BASIC code,
    launches the EPIC
    > software, and programs the PIC. Karl provides even more detail
    about the
    > process in his second book, Amphibionics, but it's easy enough.
    There are a
    > few more details to attend to the first time you set it up, but
    for someone
    > building a project like this it should not be a problem. Once you
    install
    > and configure the software, working with the PIC is very much like
    working
    > with the Stamp.
    >
    > Like many things, there are pros and cons to either approach. On
    your first
    > day, you would get the Stamp up and running a little faster, no
    doubt. But
    > you're building a walking robot from scratch, including the
    electronics. In
    > that context, neither approach is difficult. Karl used PicBasic
    Pro because
    > it is easy to work with -- we're not talking about assembly
    language here.
    > Once you invest the cost of several Stamps in the tools, you have
    the
    > ability to run your robot (and other projects) with a $3 PIC.
    Whether that
    > sounds appealing may depend on your plans for future projects
    beyond the one
    > Insectronic robot.
    >
    > It is not my intention to promote other products on the Stamp
    list, but the
    > responses to your question so far were all on one side, and there
    are
    > definitely two viable alternatives. I hope this helps you make an
    informed
    > decision, and believe you will be successful regardless of your
    choice.
    >
    > Have fun with your robot!
    >
    > Randy
    > www.glitchbuster.com
    >
    > PS -- FYI, Karl has a similar but less complex hexapod project in
    the
    > November and December issues of SERVO Magazine.
    >
    >
    >
    > > I built a simple Robot which the book recomends Picbasic Pro
    > > software w/Epic programer. About a $300.00+ investment. I can get
    > > the Parallax Radio Shack 79.00 promo pack that includes the
    Parallax
    > > software and programer. Is the Parallax RS kit going to work like
    > > the Picbasic/Epic recomendation? The book has some programs in it
    > > and I am wondering if the Parallax software will accept the same
    > > commands. The robot is the "Insectronics" walker by Karl
    Williams.
    > >
    > > TIA
    > > rdowellus
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-25 15:40
    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "rdowellus" <rdowellus@y...>
    wrote:
    > Randy,
    > I picked up from your response that a PIC and a Stamp are not the
    > same thing and assume from that they probably will not accept the
    > same commands.


    Wow, did we miss mentioning that ? Holly-Cow Bat-man. PBasic is
    VASTLY different than PicBasic or (PBP) the languages are not
    interchangable bwtween chips. not even close.

    <snip>

    > Sounds like I need to stick with the PIC/Epic combo to continue
    with this project though.

    Sure does.


    > Now I have a minor dilema. Invest
    > further in PIC or modify/can the project and switch to Stamp and
    > future Stamp projects.

    This may be heressay on this list, but I would advise following thru
    on the project with the way it was laid out.

    Trying to re-work it would add considderable time and trouble as you
    would be breaking new ground.

    Also, there are a few free basic compliers for the PIC so PicBasicPro
    (although a great product) may be a little heavy on the wallet if all
    you want is to finish one project.

    Here, I would advise checking with others to see if the kit has been
    ported into other languages. Not too far off following the path laid
    down.

    Also, PIC programmers can be really cheap. (how much does one
    resistor cost these days ?) or you can spend big bux !

    In the end, if you plan on using the Stamp, don't spend a bunch on
    one project.

    Dave
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-29 15:38
    "PBasic" is the variant of the Basic language
    used by the Stamps. "PicBasic" is the language
    used by the PicBasic compiler. I believe they
    are sort-of compatible with each other -- but
    PicBasic lets you program in
    PIC assembler if you want, which PBasic does
    not. And, PicBasic compiles to assembly,
    where PBasic compiles to 'tokens'.
    Assembly lets you be faster, 'Tokens' allows
    you to be larger.

    Also, when you use a BS2 based solution, you
    have a 24-pin wide-dip module which uses the
    PBasic language.

    The benefit of the BS2 is that it is a very
    robust design, with a robust implementation of
    Basic. By 'robust' I mean it will work with
    power from 6 volts to 12 volts, ALWAYS comes
    up on power-up, sources or sinks 20 mA or so
    on its I/O pins, has diode over-voltage
    protection on its I/O pins, and has built-in
    brown-out protection.



    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "rdowellus" <rdowellus@y...>
    wrote:
    > Randy,
    > I picked up from your response that a PIC and a Stamp are not the
    > same thing and assume from that they probably will not accept the
    > same commands. Up to this point it had not occured to me that there
    > was a difference (Duh). I was thinking the Parallax software might
    > work on the parts I have already installed (PIC). After comparing
    > screenshots of both software packages I had seen many similarities.
    > Sounds like I need to stick with the PIC/Epic combo to continue
    with
    > this project though. Wish I would have found the Parallax site and
    > this groop sooner. Karls book was on Stampbuilder.com not
    > PICbuilder.com. Oooops...My bad. Now I have a minor dilema. Invest
    > further in PIC or modify/can the project and switch to Stamp and
    > future Stamp projects.
    >
    > Thanks to all for excellent responses. This has been a way cool
    > project so far and a fantastic education so far.
    > Happy Holidays and I'll be back
    >
    > --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Jones" <randyjones@w...>
    > wrote:
    > > There is no question that the Stamp is very easy to get going. I
    > have been
    > > selling some OEM BASIC Stamps recently, and one of the things I
    > mention in
    > > the ad is that the Stamp is probably the easiest and best-
    > supported way to
    > > start with microcontrollers. And Parallax support is absolutely
    > first
    > > class -- I've been a happy customer since buying my first Stamp
    in
    > 1993. As
    > > others have already said, they just work.
    > >
    > > ...But consider that you are building a robot with multiple PC
    > boards, and
    > > the boards are already set up for the PIC. They already have the
    > 5V
    > > regulator and a crystal in place for the PIC's clock signal. All
    > the rest
    > > of the connections to the PIC are inputs and outputs -- just like
    > you would
    > > connect to a Stamp. It could actually be slightly more
    > challenging to adapt
    > > the pre-designed board to the Stamp, compared to using the PIC as
    > Karl had
    > > intended. If you have the skill and perseverance to get the
    robot
    > working,
    > > you could probably handle either hardware approach without
    > difficulty. The
    > > PIC vs. Stamp issue won't be the determining factor in whether it
    > ends up
    > > working or not.
    > >
    > > How about programming the PIC? I have supplied numerous
    customers
    > with the
    > > EPIC/PicBasic Pro combination -- some with previous Stamp
    > experience and
    > > some starting from scratch. You write/edit your program in a
    > Windows
    > > editing environment quite similar to the Stamp editor. When
    > you're ready to
    > > program the PIC, one mouse click compiles your BASIC code,
    > launches the EPIC
    > > software, and programs the PIC. Karl provides even more detail
    > about the
    > > process in his second book, Amphibionics, but it's easy enough.
    > There are a
    > > few more details to attend to the first time you set it up, but
    > for someone
    > > building a project like this it should not be a problem. Once
    you
    > install
    > > and configure the software, working with the PIC is very much
    like
    > working
    > > with the Stamp.
    > >
    > > Like many things, there are pros and cons to either approach. On
    > your first
    > > day, you would get the Stamp up and running a little faster, no
    > doubt. But
    > > you're building a walking robot from scratch, including the
    > electronics. In
    > > that context, neither approach is difficult. Karl used PicBasic
    > Pro because
    > > it is easy to work with -- we're not talking about assembly
    > language here.
    > > Once you invest the cost of several Stamps in the tools, you have
    > the
    > > ability to run your robot (and other projects) with a $3 PIC.
    > Whether that
    > > sounds appealing may depend on your plans for future projects
    > beyond the one
    > > Insectronic robot.
    > >
    > > It is not my intention to promote other products on the Stamp
    > list, but the
    > > responses to your question so far were all on one side, and there
    > are
    > > definitely two viable alternatives. I hope this helps you make
    an
    > informed
    > > decision, and believe you will be successful regardless of your
    > choice.
    > >
    > > Have fun with your robot!
    > >
    > > Randy
    > > www.glitchbuster.com
    > >
    > > PS -- FYI, Karl has a similar but less complex hexapod project in
    > the
    > > November and December issues of SERVO Magazine.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > > I built a simple Robot which the book recomends Picbasic Pro
    > > > software w/Epic programer. About a $300.00+ investment. I can
    get
    > > > the Parallax Radio Shack 79.00 promo pack that includes the
    > Parallax
    > > > software and programer. Is the Parallax RS kit going to work
    like
    > > > the Picbasic/Epic recomendation? The book has some programs in
    it
    > > > and I am wondering if the Parallax software will accept the same
    > > > commands. The robot is the "Insectronics" walker by Karl
    > Williams.
    > > >
    > > > TIA
    > > > rdowellus
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