That screaming you hear is me...

Archiver

I need to get a saner hobby. It's day 17 of The Alarm Clock Project From
Heck. I expected to spend 3 days on it. My wife has leared to avoid me when
I'm muttering and poking at wires. My children are laughing behind my back.
Why do I do this? Why don't I take up basket weaving or candlemaking? At
least with those hobbies, you get something that *works*.

The Quadravox Voice Module started my slow slide into madness. It's a simple
device; no, honestly, a child could use it. *Only* children can use it,
because children naturally believe in the miraculous, the magical and the
incomprehensible. Just pull RST low for 100ms, then pull it high again. Wait
2000ms. Volia, now you can ask the board to speak words. That's what the doc
states.

Uh huh. The Quadravox speaks, alright: but the wrong words. It turns out
that 2000ms is not enough. In fact, 10000ms is not enough. The trick is to
wait 3000ms, ask it to speak something (which it generally gets wrong), and
then wait 5000ms. *Then* it will work properly. How did I find this out?
Trial and error.

So I got that settled. Now we'll just program the DS1302.... Hm, trickle
charging of backup power supply. Nifty: but the doc is incomprehensible. One
diode or two? 2K vs 8k? How do I know? I just want it to charge up a big
cap, and use that when the power fails. Maybe I should just put in a
battery. No. I don't like batteries. Batteries don't merely go bad, they go
bad and leak, corroding things. Never trust a battery in anything more
expensive than a flashlight, that's my motto. And this alarm clock is
already *obscenely* more expensive than any such device has a right to be.

Skip the trickle charger. I'll just put a big capacitor and a diode network
in on the main power pin, that will keep the DS1302 running for days when
the power fails, no fear...

Yes, fear. When I pulled the power cord, the chip would lose track of the
time, even then the cap was fully charged at 5v. Not always, of course.
Just... occasionally. Randomly. Given that my alarm clock has to be hooked
back up to a computer to reset the time, which means I don't want to have to
reset the time very often, I want the power backup scheme to *work*.

OK. Let's do it the right way. Put the cap on the trickle charger side of
the chip. Enable the chip's quirky little trickle charger option (fussle,
fussle, fussle). How many diodes? What resistance to specify? Sheesh, the
doc doesn't even give any hints. I went with one diode and 2K. Gee, that
seems to be working!

Working. Uh huh. For about a day. Suddenly the DS1302 reported it was
February the 55th. Hm. OK, reset the clock.. Now it's January the 3rd... in
the year 2000. At this point I hear laughing, and I suspect the Quadravox is
mocking me, but no, it's me that's laughing. Manically. I have a soldering
iron in my hand and I'm eyeing the DS1302. This is not good. I get a grip on
myself.

OK. Maybe the cap on the trickle charger was a bad move. In an AppNote I
didn't find before, it talks about only using a SuperCap or a battery.
What's a SuperCap? Is this soda-can sized 161,000uF@10v cap of mine a
supercap? No idea. Maybe that's the problem. Maybe SuperCaps are *different*
than other caps, and the DS1302 can tell the difference. Maybe it's
offended. Can something that small get offended? How do you calm down
offended hardware? I put the soldering iron down again. I take a deep
breath. Violence is not the answer.

I take the cap back out of the circuit, and tie the trickle charger pin to
ground, which is what the doc says to do when you aren't using a backup
power system. I power cycle, try again...

The DS1302 has gone mad. I can't set the time anymore: I get back garbage
when I read it, every time. I check the connections: yes, all the lines are
correct. I check the code. Yes, initialise the DS1302, enable the trickle
charger...

Enable the trickle charger. I'd just tied the trickle pin to ground. Oh...
dear. (I did not actually say "Oh, dear", but it's possible that children
read this list, so I won't give an accurate description of my verbiage at
that moment. If any children *do* read this list, for mercy's sake, run.
Find a normal hobby. Save yourselves.)

This is turning out just like the Pump Project. I don't want to think about
the Pump project. That way madness lies.

So here I sit. Giggling. Do I order another DS1302? Why, so I can kill it,
too? Maybe it deserves to die. Maybe they all deserve to die... bwah
hahahah... yes.. kill them all, my precious... let the smoke out... death to
all hardware... the wall socket... 120v at 15A... watch the pretty sparks...
free the smoke within... free it all...

No. I'm fine. I'm sane. I have not been driven to raving by little pieces of
electronics. I will get past this. I got past the Pump project, didn't I?
And the Doorbell project. *Flinch* The $175 Doorbell from Hell...

I need to get a saner hobby. Heaven help me, I do.

Archiver

Thanks I needed that !!!!

Bet quite a few of us can easily remember ourselves in the same situation.
Once I resorted to the 120VAC and watching the sparks and smoke (a great
feeling). The project is finally completed (he he he)!!!!! I made carbon
!!!

Happy Holidays

---

Original Message

---

From: "Scott" <scott@m...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 7:41 PM
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] That screaming you hear is me...


> I need to get a saner hobby. It's day 17 of The Alarm Clock Project From
> Heck. I expected to spend 3 days on it. My wife has leared to avoid me
when
> I'm muttering and poking at wires. My children are laughing behind my
back.
> Why do I do this? Why don't I take up basket weaving or candlemaking? At
> least with those hobbies, you get something that *works*.
>
> The Quadravox Voice Module started my slow slide into madness. It's a
simple
> device; no, honestly, a child could use it. *Only* children can use it,
> because children naturally believe in the miraculous, the magical and the
> incomprehensible. Just pull RST low for 100ms, then pull it high again.
Wait
> 2000ms. Volia, now you can ask the board to speak words. That's what the
doc
> states.
>
> Uh huh. The Quadravox speaks, alright: but the wrong words. It turns out
> that 2000ms is not enough. In fact, 10000ms is not enough. The trick is to
> wait 3000ms, ask it to speak something (which it generally gets wrong),
and
> then wait 5000ms. *Then* it will work properly. How did I find this out?
> Trial and error.
>
> So I got that settled. Now we'll just program the DS1302.... Hm, trickle
> charging of backup power supply. Nifty: but the doc is incomprehensible.
One
> diode or two? 2K vs 8k? How do I know? I just want it to charge up a big
> cap, and use that when the power fails. Maybe I should just put in a
> battery. No. I don't like batteries. Batteries don't merely go bad, they
go
> bad and leak, corroding things. Never trust a battery in anything more
> expensive than a flashlight, that's my motto. And this alarm clock is
> already *obscenely* more expensive than any such device has a right to be.
>
> Skip the trickle charger. I'll just put a big capacitor and a diode
network
> in on the main power pin, that will keep the DS1302 running for days when
> the power fails, no fear...
>
> Yes, fear. When I pulled the power cord, the chip would lose track of the
> time, even then the cap was fully charged at 5v. Not always, of course.
> Just... occasionally. Randomly. Given that my alarm clock has to be hooked
> back up to a computer to reset the time, which means I don't want to have
to
> reset the time very often, I want the power backup scheme to *work*.
>
> OK. Let's do it the right way. Put the cap on the trickle charger side of
> the chip. Enable the chip's quirky little trickle charger option (fussle,
> fussle, fussle). How many diodes? What resistance to specify? Sheesh, the
> doc doesn't even give any hints. I went with one diode and 2K. Gee, that
> seems to be working!
>
> Working. Uh huh. For about a day. Suddenly the DS1302 reported it was
> February the 55th. Hm. OK, reset the clock.. Now it's January the 3rd...
in
> the year 2000. At this point I hear laughing, and I suspect the Quadravox
is
> mocking me, but no, it's me that's laughing. Manically. I have a soldering
> iron in my hand and I'm eyeing the DS1302. This is not good. I get a grip
on
> myself.
>
> OK. Maybe the cap on the trickle charger was a bad move. In an AppNote I
> didn't find before, it talks about only using a SuperCap or a battery.
> What's a SuperCap? Is this soda-can sized 161,000uF@10v cap of mine a
> supercap? No idea. Maybe that's the problem. Maybe SuperCaps are
*different*
> than other caps, and the DS1302 can tell the difference. Maybe it's
> offended. Can something that small get offended? How do you calm down
> offended hardware? I put the soldering iron down again. I take a deep
> breath. Violence is not the answer.
>
> I take the cap back out of the circuit, and tie the trickle charger pin to
> ground, which is what the doc says to do when you aren't using a backup
> power system. I power cycle, try again...
>
> The DS1302 has gone mad. I can't set the time anymore: I get back garbage
> when I read it, every time. I check the connections: yes, all the lines
are
> correct. I check the code. Yes, initialise the DS1302, enable the trickle
> charger...
>
> Enable the trickle charger. I'd just tied the trickle pin to ground. Oh...
> dear. (I did not actually say "Oh, dear", but it's possible that children
> read this list, so I won't give an accurate description of my verbiage at
> that moment. If any children *do* read this list, for mercy's sake, run.
> Find a normal hobby. Save yourselves.)
>
> This is turning out just like the Pump Project. I don't want to think
about
> the Pump project. That way madness lies.
>
> So here I sit. Giggling. Do I order another DS1302? Why, so I can kill it,
> too? Maybe it deserves to die. Maybe they all deserve to die... bwah
> hahahah... yes.. kill them all, my precious... let the smoke out... death
to
> all hardware... the wall socket... 120v at 15A... watch the pretty
sparks...
> free the smoke within... free it all...
>
> No. I'm fine. I'm sane. I have not been driven to raving by little pieces
of
> electronics. I will get past this. I got past the Pump project, didn't I?
> And the Doorbell project. *Flinch* The $175 Doorbell from Hell...
>
> I need to get a saner hobby. Heaven help me, I do.
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Archiver

I often find BEER fixes most problems. Then again drinking and
electronics don't often mix well. I once had a nice little 8x8
carbon arc-light matrix made of old carbon rods from batteries that
was hooked to 4 CMD-64's and an arc welder, yes for a time I had the
worlds brightest configurable display you might say until beer
entered the picture and I put the + to - and the - to the + from the
welder which in turn instantly vaporized the 4 cmd64's.. not to
mention summoned the fire department for the first time.... That
hasn't phased the beer drinking though, but I don't play with arc
welders anymore [noparse]:)[/noparse]

I've killed 1 Stamp, half an OOPIC, 7 sets of ULN2803's, numerous
digital relays and potentiometers, inumerable transistors and LEDS
by the dozen. My motto, "you ain't learnin unless you see the magic
smoke". I haven't fried anythin in quite some time, and that has me
worried that I might actually know what I'm doing now..

I've been in the phase you are at right now many times. It's the
phase where you go insane trying to get the stupidest little thing
functioning, and then throw it in the closet for six months. I
found that if you run in to trouble, let it sit there for a week and
get back at it and you would be amazed how fast things get going
after a break when you mind is not insane.

Resc.



--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Scott" <scott@m...> wrote:
> I need to get a saner hobby. It's day 17 of The Alarm Clock
Project From
> Heck. I expected to spend 3 days on it. My wife has leared to
avoid me when
> I'm muttering and poking at wires. My children are laughing behind
my back.
> Why do I do this? Why don't I take up basket weaving or
candlemaking? At
> least with those hobbies, you get something that *works*.
>
> The Quadravox Voice Module started my slow slide into madness.
It's a simple
> device; no, honestly, a child could use it. *Only* children can
use it,
> because children naturally believe in the miraculous, the magical
and the
> incomprehensible. Just pull RST low for 100ms, then pull it high
again. Wait
> 2000ms. Volia, now you can ask the board to speak words. That's
what the doc
> states.
>
> Uh huh. The Quadravox speaks, alright: but the wrong words. It
turns out
> that 2000ms is not enough. In fact, 10000ms is not enough. The
trick is to
> wait 3000ms, ask it to speak something (which it generally gets
wrong), and
> then wait 5000ms. *Then* it will work properly. How did I find
this out?
> Trial and error.
>
> So I got that settled. Now we'll just program the DS1302.... Hm,
trickle
> charging of backup power supply. Nifty: but the doc is
incomprehensible. One
> diode or two? 2K vs 8k? How do I know? I just want it to charge up
a big
> cap, and use that when the power fails. Maybe I should just put in
a
> battery. No. I don't like batteries. Batteries don't merely go
bad, they go
> bad and leak, corroding things. Never trust a battery in anything
more
> expensive than a flashlight, that's my motto. And this alarm clock
is
> already *obscenely* more expensive than any such device has a
right to be.
>
> Skip the trickle charger. I'll just put a big capacitor and a
diode network
> in on the main power pin, that will keep the DS1302 running for
days when
> the power fails, no fear...
>
> Yes, fear. When I pulled the power cord, the chip would lose track
of the
> time, even then the cap was fully charged at 5v. Not always, of
course.
> Just... occasionally. Randomly. Given that my alarm clock has to
be hooked
> back up to a computer to reset the time, which means I don't want
to have to
> reset the time very often, I want the power backup scheme to
*work*.
>
> OK. Let's do it the right way. Put the cap on the trickle charger
side of
> the chip. Enable the chip's quirky little trickle charger option
(fussle,
> fussle, fussle). How many diodes? What resistance to specify?
Sheesh, the
> doc doesn't even give any hints. I went with one diode and 2K.
Gee, that
> seems to be working!
>
> Working. Uh huh. For about a day. Suddenly the DS1302 reported it
was
> February the 55th. Hm. OK, reset the clock.. Now it's January the
3rd... in
> the year 2000. At this point I hear laughing, and I suspect the
Quadravox is
> mocking me, but no, it's me that's laughing. Manically. I have a
soldering
> iron in my hand and I'm eyeing the DS1302. This is not good. I get
a grip on
> myself.
>
> OK. Maybe the cap on the trickle charger was a bad move. In an
AppNote I
> didn't find before, it talks about only using a SuperCap or a
battery.
> What's a SuperCap? Is this soda-can sized 161,000uF@10v cap of
mine a
> supercap? No idea. Maybe that's the problem. Maybe SuperCaps are
*different*
> than other caps, and the DS1302 can tell the difference. Maybe it's
> offended. Can something that small get offended? How do you calm
down
> offended hardware? I put the soldering iron down again. I take a
deep
> breath. Violence is not the answer.
>
> I take the cap back out of the circuit, and tie the trickle
charger pin to
> ground, which is what the doc says to do when you aren't using a
backup
> power system. I power cycle, try again...
>
> The DS1302 has gone mad. I can't set the time anymore: I get back
garbage
> when I read it, every time. I check the connections: yes, all the
lines are
> correct. I check the code. Yes, initialise the DS1302, enable the
trickle
> charger...
>
> Enable the trickle charger. I'd just tied the trickle pin to
ground. Oh...
> dear. (I did not actually say "Oh, dear", but it's possible that
children
> read this list, so I won't give an accurate description of my
verbiage at
> that moment. If any children *do* read this list, for mercy's
sake, run.
> Find a normal hobby. Save yourselves.)
>
> This is turning out just like the Pump Project. I don't want to
think about
> the Pump project. That way madness lies.
>
> So here I sit. Giggling. Do I order another DS1302? Why, so I can
kill it,
> too? Maybe it deserves to die. Maybe they all deserve to die...
bwah
> hahahah... yes.. kill them all, my precious... let the smoke
out... death to
> all hardware... the wall socket... 120v at 15A... watch the pretty
sparks...
> free the smoke within... free it all...
>
> No. I'm fine. I'm sane. I have not been driven to raving by little
pieces of
> electronics. I will get past this. I got past the Pump project,
didn't I?
> And the Doorbell project. *Flinch* The $175 Doorbell from Hell...
>
> I need to get a saner hobby. Heaven help me, I do.

Archiver

Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] That screaming you hear is me...


> I need to get a saner hobby. It's day 17 of The Alarm Clock Project From
> Heck. I expected to spend 3 days on it. My wife has leared to avoid me
when
> I'm muttering and poking at wires. My children are laughing behind my
back.
> Why do I do this? Why don't I take up basket weaving or candlemaking? At
> least with those hobbies, you get something that *works*.
>
>

Scott:

I am sitting here laughing out loud! Well, if you never make it in the
stamp world you have a wonderful future as a creative writer!!! Seriously,
very funny. Happy Holidays. (Some say a hobby is cheaper than therapy
...... hmmmmmm maybe not.)

Al, W3AL

Archiver

Man.... and I thought I was the only one!!!
:-)
Uriel

---

Original Message

---

From: Scott [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=yAZREDid-KNYQM0tlDQT5YRDj_mQkCLLeHudEN9Qs-sbgwEQHWM3SJWG8y6hoZEQz-HGxKjF]scott@m...[/url
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 7:41 PM
To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] That screaming you hear is me...

I need to get a saner hobby. It's day 17 of The Alarm Clock Project From
Heck. I expected to spend 3 days on it. My wife has leared to avoid me
when
I'm muttering and poking at wires. My children are laughing behind my
back.
Why do I do this? Why don't I take up basket weaving or candlemaking? At
least with those hobbies, you get something that *works*.

The Quadravox Voice Module started my slow slide into madness. It's a
simple
device; no, honestly, a child could use it. *Only* children can use it,
because children naturally believe in the miraculous, the magical and
the
incomprehensible. Just pull RST low for 100ms, then pull it high again.
Wait
2000ms. Volia, now you can ask the board to speak words. That's what the
doc
states.

Uh huh. The Quadravox speaks, alright: but the wrong words. It turns out
that 2000ms is not enough. In fact, 10000ms is not enough. The trick is
to
wait 3000ms, ask it to speak something (which it generally gets wrong),
and
then wait 5000ms. *Then* it will work properly. How did I find this out?
Trial and error.

So I got that settled. Now we'll just program the DS1302.... Hm, trickle
charging of backup power supply. Nifty: but the doc is incomprehensible.
One
diode or two? 2K vs 8k? How do I know? I just want it to charge up a big
cap, and use that when the power fails. Maybe I should just put in a
battery. No. I don't like batteries. Batteries don't merely go bad, they
go
bad and leak, corroding things. Never trust a battery in anything more
expensive than a flashlight, that's my motto. And this alarm clock is
already *obscenely* more expensive than any such device has a right to
be.

Skip the trickle charger. I'll just put a big capacitor and a diode
network
in on the main power pin, that will keep the DS1302 running for days
when
the power fails, no fear...

Yes, fear. When I pulled the power cord, the chip would lose track of
the
time, even then the cap was fully charged at 5v. Not always, of course.
Just... occasionally. Randomly. Given that my alarm clock has to be
hooked
back up to a computer to reset the time, which means I don't want to
have to
reset the time very often, I want the power backup scheme to *work*.

OK. Let's do it the right way. Put the cap on the trickle charger side
of
the chip. Enable the chip's quirky little trickle charger option
(fussle,
fussle, fussle). How many diodes? What resistance to specify? Sheesh,
the
doc doesn't even give any hints. I went with one diode and 2K. Gee, that
seems to be working!

Working. Uh huh. For about a day. Suddenly the DS1302 reported it was
February the 55th. Hm. OK, reset the clock.. Now it's January the 3rd...
in
the year 2000. At this point I hear laughing, and I suspect the
Quadravox is
mocking me, but no, it's me that's laughing. Manically. I have a
soldering
iron in my hand and I'm eyeing the DS1302. This is not good. I get a
grip on
myself.

OK. Maybe the cap on the trickle charger was a bad move. In an AppNote I
didn't find before, it talks about only using a SuperCap or a battery.
What's a SuperCap? Is this soda-can sized 161,000uF@10v cap of mine a
supercap? No idea. Maybe that's the problem. Maybe SuperCaps are
*different*
than other caps, and the DS1302 can tell the difference. Maybe it's
offended. Can something that small get offended? How do you calm down
offended hardware? I put the soldering iron down again. I take a deep
breath. Violence is not the answer.

I take the cap back out of the circuit, and tie the trickle charger pin
to
ground, which is what the doc says to do when you aren't using a backup
power system. I power cycle, try again...

The DS1302 has gone mad. I can't set the time anymore: I get back
garbage
when I read it, every time. I check the connections: yes, all the lines
are
correct. I check the code. Yes, initialise the DS1302, enable the
trickle
charger...

Enable the trickle charger. I'd just tied the trickle pin to ground.
Oh...
dear. (I did not actually say "Oh, dear", but it's possible that
children
read this list, so I won't give an accurate description of my verbiage
at
that moment. If any children *do* read this list, for mercy's sake, run.
Find a normal hobby. Save yourselves.)

This is turning out just like the Pump Project. I don't want to think
about
the Pump project. That way madness lies.

So here I sit. Giggling. Do I order another DS1302? Why, so I can kill
it,
too? Maybe it deserves to die. Maybe they all deserve to die... bwah
hahahah... yes.. kill them all, my precious... let the smoke out...
death to
all hardware... the wall socket... 120v at 15A... watch the pretty
sparks...
free the smoke within... free it all...

No. I'm fine. I'm sane. I have not been driven to raving by little
pieces of
electronics. I will get past this. I got past the Pump project, didn't
I?
And the Doorbell project. *Flinch* The $175 Doorbell from Hell...

I need to get a saner hobby. Heaven help me, I do.



To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
and Body of the message will be ignored.


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Archiver

"I need to get a saner hobby. Heaven help me, I do."

Perhaps you could may want to think about changing careers/hobbies......I
think you would do great as a comedian......that was pretty funny. I think at
some point we all have been there.

ken

---

I need to get a saner hobby. It's day 17 of The Alarm Clock Project From
Heck. I expected to spend 3 days on it. My wife has leared to avoid me when
I'm muttering and poking at wires. My children are laughing behind my back.
Why do I do this? Why don't I take up basket weaving or candlemaking? At
least with those hobbies, you get something that *works*.

The Quadravox Voice Module started my slow slide into madness. It's a simple
device; no, honestly, a child could use it. *Only* children can use it,
because children naturally believe in the miraculous, the magical and the
incomprehensible. Just pull RST low for 100ms, then pull it high again. Wait
2000ms. Volia, now you can ask the board to speak words. That's what the doc
states.

Uh huh. The Quadravox speaks, alright: but the wrong words. It turns out
that 2000ms is not enough. In fact, 10000ms is not enough. The trick is to
wait 3000ms, ask it to speak something (which it generally gets wrong), and
then wait 5000ms. *Then* it will work properly. How did I find this out?
Trial and error.

So I got that settled. Now we'll just program the DS1302.... Hm, trickle
charging of backup power supply. Nifty: but the doc is incomprehensible. One
diode or two? 2K vs 8k? How do I know? I just want it to charge up a big
cap, and use that when the power fails. Maybe I should just put in a
battery. No. I don't like batteries. Batteries don't merely go bad, they go
bad and leak, corroding things. Never trust a battery in anything more
expensive than a flashlight, that's my motto. And this alarm clock is
already *obscenely* more expensive than any such device has a right to be.

Skip the trickle charger. I'll just put a big capacitor and a diode network
in on the main power pin, that will keep the DS1302 running for days when
the power fails, no fear...

Yes, fear. When I pulled the power cord, the chip would lose track of the
time, even then the cap was fully charged at 5v. Not always, of course.
Just... occasionally. Randomly. Given that my alarm clock has to be hooked
back up to a computer to reset the time, which means I don't want to have to
reset the time very often, I want the power backup scheme to *work*.

OK. Let's do it the right way. Put the cap on the trickle charger side of
the chip. Enable the chip's quirky little trickle charger option (fussle,
fussle, fussle). How many diodes? What resistance to specify? Sheesh, the
doc doesn't even give any hints. I went with one diode and 2K. Gee, that
seems to be working!

Working. Uh huh. For about a day. Suddenly the DS1302 reported it was
February the 55th. Hm. OK, reset the clock.. Now it's January the 3rd... in
the year 2000. At this point I hear laughing, and I suspect the Quadravox is
mocking me, but no, it's me that's laughing. Manically. I have a soldering
iron in my hand and I'm eyeing the DS1302. This is not good. I get a grip on
myself.

OK. Maybe the cap on the trickle charger was a bad move. In an AppNote I
didn't find before, it talks about only using a SuperCap or a battery.
What's a SuperCap? Is this soda-can sized 161,000uF@10v cap of mine a
supercap? No idea. Maybe that's the problem. Maybe SuperCaps are *different*
than other caps, and the DS1302 can tell the difference. Maybe it's
offended. Can something that small get offended? How do you calm down
offended hardware? I put the soldering iron down again. I take a deep
breath. Violence is not the answer.

I take the cap back out of the circuit, and tie the trickle charger pin to
ground, which is what the doc says to do when you aren't using a backup
power system. I power cycle, try again...

The DS1302 has gone mad. I can't set the time anymore: I get back garbage
when I read it, every time. I check the connections: yes, all the lines are
correct. I check the code. Yes, initialise the DS1302, enable the trickle
charger...

Enable the trickle charger. I'd just tied the trickle pin to ground. Oh...
dear. (I did not actually say "Oh, dear", but it's possible that children
read this list, so I won't give an accurate description of my verbiage at
that moment. If any children *do* read this list, for mercy's sake, run.
Find a normal hobby. Save yourselves.)

This is turning out just like the Pump Project. I don't want to think about
the Pump project. That way madness lies.

So here I sit. Giggling. Do I order another DS1302? Why, so I can kill it,
too? Maybe it deserves to die. Maybe they all deserve to die... bwah
hahahah... yes.. kill them all, my precious... let the smoke out... death to
all hardware... the wall socket... 120v at 15A... watch the pretty sparks...
free the smoke within... free it all...

No. I'm fine. I'm sane. I have not been driven to raving by little pieces of
electronics. I will get past this. I got past the Pump project, didn't I?
And the Doorbell project. *Flinch* The $175 Doorbell from Hell...

I need to get a saner hobby. Heaven help me, I do.


[noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Archiver

Boy does that sound familiar.

Might be time to take a break. [noparse]:)[/noparse]

I usually take at least a one week break to consider what may be going
wrong and develop strategies to track down the circuit demons.

Sometimes it's something simple like a bad ground.

Other times I've used new approaches.

While on a sabbatical expect the demons to haunt you from time to time.
Reading a book will generally divert your conscious mind long enough to
allow sleep.


Scott wrote:
>
> I need to get a saner hobby. It's day 17 of The Alarm Clock Project From
> Heck. I expected to spend 3 days on it. My wife has leared to avoid me when
> I'm muttering and poking at wires. My children are laughing behind my back.
> Why do I do this? Why don't I take up basket weaving or candlemaking? At
> least with those hobbies, you get something that *works*.
>
> The Quadravox Voice Module started my slow slide into madness. It's a simple
> device; no, honestly, a child could use it. *Only* children can use it,
> because children naturally believe in the miraculous, the magical and the
> incomprehensible. Just pull RST low for 100ms, then pull it high again. Wait
> 2000ms. Volia, now you can ask the board to speak words. That's what the doc
> states.
>
> Uh huh. The Quadravox speaks, alright: but the wrong words. It turns out
> that 2000ms is not enough. In fact, 10000ms is not enough. The trick is to
> wait 3000ms, ask it to speak something (which it generally gets wrong), and
> then wait 5000ms. *Then* it will work properly. How did I find this out?
> Trial and error.
>
> So I got that settled. Now we'll just program the DS1302.... Hm, trickle
> charging of backup power supply. Nifty: but the doc is incomprehensible. One
> diode or two? 2K vs 8k? How do I know? I just want it to charge up a big
> cap, and use that when the power fails. Maybe I should just put in a
> battery. No. I don't like batteries. Batteries don't merely go bad, they go
> bad and leak, corroding things. Never trust a battery in anything more
> expensive than a flashlight, that's my motto. And this alarm clock is
> already *obscenely* more expensive than any such device has a right to be.
>
> Skip the trickle charger. I'll just put a big capacitor and a diode network
> in on the main power pin, that will keep the DS1302 running for days when
> the power fails, no fear...
>
> Yes, fear. When I pulled the power cord, the chip would lose track of the
> time, even then the cap was fully charged at 5v. Not always, of course.
> Just... occasionally. Randomly. Given that my alarm clock has to be hooked
> back up to a computer to reset the time, which means I don't want to have to
> reset the time very often, I want the power backup scheme to *work*.
>
> OK. Let's do it the right way. Put the cap on the trickle charger side of
> the chip. Enable the chip's quirky little trickle charger option (fussle,
> fussle, fussle). How many diodes? What resistance to specify? Sheesh, the
> doc doesn't even give any hints. I went with one diode and 2K. Gee, that
> seems to be working!
>
> Working. Uh huh. For about a day. Suddenly the DS1302 reported it was
> February the 55th. Hm. OK, reset the clock.. Now it's January the 3rd... in
> the year 2000. At this point I hear laughing, and I suspect the Quadravox is
> mocking me, but no, it's me that's laughing. Manically. I have a soldering
> iron in my hand and I'm eyeing the DS1302. This is not good. I get a grip on
> myself.
>
> OK. Maybe the cap on the trickle charger was a bad move. In an AppNote I
> didn't find before, it talks about only using a SuperCap or a battery.
> What's a SuperCap? Is this soda-can sized 161,000uF@10v cap of mine a
> supercap? No idea. Maybe that's the problem. Maybe SuperCaps are *different*
> than other caps, and the DS1302 can tell the difference. Maybe it's
> offended. Can something that small get offended? How do you calm down
> offended hardware? I put the soldering iron down again. I take a deep
> breath. Violence is not the answer.
>
> I take the cap back out of the circuit, and tie the trickle charger pin to
> ground, which is what the doc says to do when you aren't using a backup
> power system. I power cycle, try again...
>
> The DS1302 has gone mad. I can't set the time anymore: I get back garbage
> when I read it, every time. I check the connections: yes, all the lines are
> correct. I check the code. Yes, initialise the DS1302, enable the trickle
> charger...
>
> Enable the trickle charger. I'd just tied the trickle pin to ground. Oh...
> dear. (I did not actually say "Oh, dear", but it's possible that children
> read this list, so I won't give an accurate description of my verbiage at
> that moment. If any children *do* read this list, for mercy's sake, run.
> Find a normal hobby. Save yourselves.)
>
> This is turning out just like the Pump Project. I don't want to think about
> the Pump project. That way madness lies.
>
> So here I sit. Giggling. Do I order another DS1302? Why, so I can kill it,
> too? Maybe it deserves to die. Maybe they all deserve to die... bwah
> hahahah... yes.. kill them all, my precious... let the smoke out... death to
> all hardware... the wall socket... 120v at 15A... watch the pretty sparks...
> free the smoke within... free it all...
>
> No. I'm fine. I'm sane. I have not been driven to raving by little pieces of
> electronics. I will get past this. I got past the Pump project, didn't I?
> And the Doorbell project. *Flinch* The $175 Doorbell from Hell...
>
> I need to get a saner hobby. Heaven help me, I do.
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Archiver

From: "Scott" <scott@m...>

> No. I'm fine. I'm sane. I have not been driven to raving by little pieces
of
> electronics. I will get past this. I got past the Pump project, didn't I?
> And the Doorbell project. *Flinch* The $175 Doorbell from Hell...
>
Since I'm in the middle of a doorbell project that is a temporary respite
from my own "quick and dirty" golf-ball-collector-robot that is rapidly
closing on a thousand dollar project, empathy demands that I try to help,
Scott. I have a DS1302 for my robot sitting here waiting for the doorbell to
be done, so I might as well read the doc's more carefully and offer what I
can.

First, a "Super Cap" refers to a new type of capacitor, not a soda can, but
more like the lid off a soda pop bottle. This one on my desk looks like the
tire off a very small model car. It's about 3/4" in diameter and 1/4" thick.
Like a stack of nickels. A very short stack. This one is a Panasonic with
one farad capacitance, and the line ranges from 0.1 to 1.5 farads. I've seen
catalog listings for other Super Caps up to 50 farads. I empathize with your
soda can however. When I went to school, the professor gleefully awaited the
perennial question about why we only see capacitors rated in pico and micro
units instead of whole units: "because a one Farad capacitor would fill this
room." Well now, one farad will barely cover my thumb nail. Don't know when
they developed this process, but it certainly merits the term "super cap"
for me. Try Digikey part number P6955-ND.

Second, I suggest trying to get the DS1302 working without a recharging
function first. Just slap a couple of AA batteries on the Vcc1 pin if you
must have a back-up supply for this first version. That will provide
something around three volts, ample since the spec permits a Vcc as low as
two volts. Unless I misread the spec, two AA's would work fine as a back-up
source for a power outage of at least a year. (Just guessing. Maybe it's
only six months, or it might be ten years. I'm too preoccupied with other
things to do the arithmetic right now, but they would be ample for a first
cut. This chip is verrrry low power. A microwatt, I think it said?) Be sure
to leave the trickle charge register unset if you do this, so the chip won't
try to trickle charge an alkaline.

Third, download the app note from Parallax if you haven't already:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2D7321C6 It's six years old, or nearly, and
the text isn't edited to Jon Williams' current standard, but it looks
credible and I'll bet the code works. (Just disable anything that sets the
trickle charge register if you use those alkalines.) I always like to write
my own code, but it sure helps to have a running version around when my head
hurts too much from beating it against the wall.

Fourth and last: that trickle charger:

>[noparse][[/noparse]...] One diode or two? 2K vs 8k? How do I know? I just want it to charge
> up a big cap, and use that when the power fails. [noparse][[/noparse]...] Skip the trickle
> charger. I'll just put a big capacitor and a diode network in on the main
> power pin, that will keep the DS1302 running for days when
> the power fails, no fear...

That circuitry may be the source of your problems, so get rid of it first as
I suggested above. When you get the chip running without a back-up power
supply, and you return to the back-up issue, consider that the doc's say the
chip has it's own diodes and resistors to control charging. That's why you
can't find guidance on where to wire your own. My interpretation of their
description took a couple of readings I admit. You'd think they'd brag a
little more explicitly about including the complete control circuit.

Here's what I understand to be the case. You're controlling the voltage and
current used to charge the back-up power source with the "Trickle Charge
Register" or TCR. This is a two step process:

1. Pick one or two diodes to put in series with the charging current in
order to control the voltage presented to the backup supply. The super caps
I've seen are not rated for high voltages. Since the back-up voltage needs
to be only 2.0 volts, you might well be using a capacitor or a back-up NiCad
battery that tolerates no more than four volts when charging. If your supply
voltage on Vcc2, the normal source, is running a little high at 5.1V let's
say, then a single diode would only drop that to 4.4V and you would fry your
back-up. So you choose instead the code "10" for "put two diodes in series."
If your primary source ranges from 4.9 to 5.1V, then that will give you 3.5V
to 4.0V on the charging circuit. If your back-up will tolerate as much as
4.4V, then specify only a single diode. In either case, you are specifying
the use of diodes already on the chip, not external ones you add.

2. Different back-ups will tolerate different charging rates. So they
provide three resistors: 2k, 4k, and 8k ohms. With that example above, we
used two diodes in series to drop the charging voltage 1.4V to something
between 3.5 and 4.0. In that range, a completely discharged super cap would
draw 1.75 to 2.00 mA with the 2k choice, 0.875 mA to 1 mA with the 4k
choice, and 0.438 to .500 mA with the largest choice, the 8k. You pick the
current your backup can tolerate as a maximum, and then specify the resistor
value that will achieve that limit.

So if we had a back-up battery we wanted to limit to 4V charging at 2
milliamps, we would specify two diodes, DS bits=10, and the 2k resistor, RS
bits=01. With the trickle-charge-enable code of 1010 that means the trickle
charge register would have to be set to 10101001. The super cap in front of
me has an effective series resistance of only 30 ohms, so I neglected that
in the calculation. And of course, that current is only the maximum, to be
seen only when the back-up being charged is at ground potential, a rare
condition. Normally, you'll have a charging current in the micro-amp range.

>
> The Quadravox Voice Module started my slow slide into madness.

And here I can't help at all. Made that slide years ago wire programming an
IBM 14~~ <mumble mumble>, and I've haven't needed a Quadravox to cement my
fall. I do suggest you explicitly ask Parallax tech support about those
symptoms, and if they have nothing to suggest I'm sure they'll send you
another.

Gary

Archiver

From: "Gary W. Sims" <simsgw@c...>
Ummm... Let's try that arithmetic again:

> voltage on Vcc2, the normal source, is running a little high at 5.1V let's
> say, then a single diode would only drop that to 4.4V and you would fry
your
> back-up. [noparse][[/noparse]...]

True enough, but:

So you choose instead the code "10" for "put two diodes in series."
> If your primary source ranges from 4.9 to 5.1V, then that will give you
3.5V
> to 4.0V on the charging circuit.

No. Can't even guess where the remains of my mind were hiding when I wrote
that. 5.0 less 1.4 is 3.6V. With that range of plus or minus 100 millivolts
on Vcc1, you'll have a charging voltage of 3.5V to 3.7V. Correct the rest of
the arithmetic appropriately if you really use any of that example.

Sorry, folks. It's tired out tonight.

Gary

Archiver

Bravo Bravo!!!!

I hate to say I laughed....but it's like watching someone stub their toe.
The hop around cursing with the oddest of maniacal faces....all the while
cursing the furniture for being where it shouldn't be!!

We've all been there and perhaps that's why it's so much funnier to know
we're in good company....

We work on these things and we get better at what we do. But....when the
grogginess is about us....we still stub our toe on that coffee table that
shouldn't have been there in the first place....

....and I'll still laugh the next time it happens!

sb

---

Original Message

---

From: Scott [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=4qP94YCW3UhhRyv1RvUtK8f9xubfrgySZAlu1m9JuDBS-geBqvCvLLT8ibC-jk3x1X2fdkXz5A]scott@m...[/url
Sent: December 8, 2003 4:41 PM
To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] That screaming you hear is me...


I need to get a saner hobby. It's day 17 of The Alarm Clock Project From
Heck. I expected to spend 3 days on it. My wife has leared to avoid me when
I'm muttering and poking at wires. My children are laughing behind my back.
Why do I do this? Why don't I take up basket weaving or candlemaking? At
least with those hobbies, you get something that *works*.

The Quadravox Voice Module started my slow slide into madness. It's a simple
device; no, honestly, a child could use it. *Only* children can use it,
because children naturally believe in the miraculous, the magical and the
incomprehensible. Just pull RST low for 100ms, then pull it high again. Wait
2000ms. Volia, now you can ask the board to speak words. That's what the doc
states.

Uh huh. The Quadravox speaks, alright: but the wrong words. It turns out
that 2000ms is not enough. In fact, 10000ms is not enough. The trick is to
wait 3000ms, ask it to speak something (which it generally gets wrong), and
then wait 5000ms. *Then* it will work properly. How did I find this out?
Trial and error.

So I got that settled. Now we'll just program the DS1302.... Hm, trickle
charging of backup power supply. Nifty: but the doc is incomprehensible. One
diode or two? 2K vs 8k? How do I know? I just want it to charge up a big
cap, and use that when the power fails. Maybe I should just put in a
battery. No. I don't like batteries. Batteries don't merely go bad, they go
bad and leak, corroding things. Never trust a battery in anything more
expensive than a flashlight, that's my motto. And this alarm clock is
already *obscenely* more expensive than any such device has a right to be.

Skip the trickle charger. I'll just put a big capacitor and a diode network
in on the main power pin, that will keep the DS1302 running for days when
the power fails, no fear...

Yes, fear. When I pulled the power cord, the chip would lose track of the
time, even then the cap was fully charged at 5v. Not always, of course.
Just... occasionally. Randomly. Given that my alarm clock has to be hooked
back up to a computer to reset the time, which means I don't want to have to
reset the time very often, I want the power backup scheme to *work*.

OK. Let's do it the right way. Put the cap on the trickle charger side of
the chip. Enable the chip's quirky little trickle charger option (fussle,
fussle, fussle). How many diodes? What resistance to specify? Sheesh, the
doc doesn't even give any hints. I went with one diode and 2K. Gee, that
seems to be working!

Working. Uh huh. For about a day. Suddenly the DS1302 reported it was
February the 55th. Hm. OK, reset the clock.. Now it's January the 3rd... in
the year 2000. At this point I hear laughing, and I suspect the Quadravox is
mocking me, but no, it's me that's laughing. Manically. I have a soldering
iron in my hand and I'm eyeing the DS1302. This is not good. I get a grip on
myself.

OK. Maybe the cap on the trickle charger was a bad move. In an AppNote I
didn't find before, it talks about only using a SuperCap or a battery.
What's a SuperCap? Is this soda-can sized 161,000uF@10v cap of mine a
supercap? No idea. Maybe that's the problem. Maybe SuperCaps are *different*
than other caps, and the DS1302 can tell the difference. Maybe it's
offended. Can something that small get offended? How do you calm down
offended hardware? I put the soldering iron down again. I take a deep
breath. Violence is not the answer.

I take the cap back out of the circuit, and tie the trickle charger pin to
ground, which is what the doc says to do when you aren't using a backup
power system. I power cycle, try again...

The DS1302 has gone mad. I can't set the time anymore: I get back garbage
when I read it, every time. I check the connections: yes, all the lines are
correct. I check the code. Yes, initialise the DS1302, enable the trickle
charger...

Enable the trickle charger. I'd just tied the trickle pin to ground. Oh...
dear. (I did not actually say "Oh, dear", but it's possible that children
read this list, so I won't give an accurate description of my verbiage at
that moment. If any children *do* read this list, for mercy's sake, run.
Find a normal hobby. Save yourselves.)

This is turning out just like the Pump Project. I don't want to think about
the Pump project. That way madness lies.

So here I sit. Giggling. Do I order another DS1302? Why, so I can kill it,
too? Maybe it deserves to die. Maybe they all deserve to die... bwah
hahahah... yes.. kill them all, my precious... let the smoke out... death to
all hardware... the wall socket... 120v at 15A... watch the pretty sparks...
free the smoke within... free it all...

No. I'm fine. I'm sane. I have not been driven to raving by little pieces of
electronics. I will get past this. I got past the Pump project, didn't I?
And the Doorbell project. *Flinch* The $175 Doorbell from Hell...

I need to get a saner hobby. Heaven help me, I do.



To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
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Body of the message will be ignored.


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Archiver

You managed to put together a doorbell for under $200? ... I'm going
to spend the week in a dark room in the fetal position.

CAT...



--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Scott" <scott@m...> wrote:
> I need to get a saner hobby. It's day 17 of The Alarm Clock Project From
> Heck. I expected to spend 3 days on it. My wife has leared to avoid
me when
> I'm muttering and poking at wires. My children are laughing behind
my back.
> Why do I do this? Why don't I take up basket weaving or candlemaking? At
> least with those hobbies, you get something that *works*.
>
> The Quadravox Voice Module started my slow slide into madness. It's
a simple
> device; no, honestly, a child could use it. *Only* children can use it,
> because children naturally believe in the miraculous, the magical
and the
> incomprehensible. Just pull RST low for 100ms, then pull it high
again. Wait
> 2000ms. Volia, now you can ask the board to speak words. That's what
the doc
> states.
>
> Uh huh. The Quadravox speaks, alright: but the wrong words. It turns out
> that 2000ms is not enough. In fact, 10000ms is not enough. The trick
is to
> wait 3000ms, ask it to speak something (which it generally gets
wrong), and
> then wait 5000ms. *Then* it will work properly. How did I find this out?
> Trial and error.
>
> So I got that settled. Now we'll just program the DS1302.... Hm, trickle
> charging of backup power supply. Nifty: but the doc is
incomprehensible. One
> diode or two? 2K vs 8k? How do I know? I just want it to charge up a big
> cap, and use that when the power fails. Maybe I should just put in a
> battery. No. I don't like batteries. Batteries don't merely go bad,
they go
> bad and leak, corroding things. Never trust a battery in anything more
> expensive than a flashlight, that's my motto. And this alarm clock is
> already *obscenely* more expensive than any such device has a right
to be.
>
> Skip the trickle charger. I'll just put a big capacitor and a diode
network
> in on the main power pin, that will keep the DS1302 running for days
when
> the power fails, no fear...
>
> Yes, fear. When I pulled the power cord, the chip would lose track
of the
> time, even then the cap was fully charged at 5v. Not always, of course.
> Just... occasionally. Randomly. Given that my alarm clock has to be
hooked
> back up to a computer to reset the time, which means I don't want to
have to
> reset the time very often, I want the power backup scheme to *work*.
>
> OK. Let's do it the right way. Put the cap on the trickle charger
side of
> the chip. Enable the chip's quirky little trickle charger option
(fussle,
> fussle, fussle). How many diodes? What resistance to specify?
Sheesh, the
> doc doesn't even give any hints. I went with one diode and 2K. Gee, that
> seems to be working!
>
> Working. Uh huh. For about a day. Suddenly the DS1302 reported it was
> February the 55th. Hm. OK, reset the clock.. Now it's January the
3rd... in
> the year 2000. At this point I hear laughing, and I suspect the
Quadravox is
> mocking me, but no, it's me that's laughing. Manically. I have a
soldering
> iron in my hand and I'm eyeing the DS1302. This is not good. I get a
grip on
> myself.
>
> OK. Maybe the cap on the trickle charger was a bad move. In an AppNote I
> didn't find before, it talks about only using a SuperCap or a battery.
> What's a SuperCap? Is this soda-can sized 161,000uF@10v cap of mine a
> supercap? No idea. Maybe that's the problem. Maybe SuperCaps are
*different*
> than other caps, and the DS1302 can tell the difference. Maybe it's
> offended. Can something that small get offended? How do you calm down
> offended hardware? I put the soldering iron down again. I take a deep
> breath. Violence is not the answer.
>
> I take the cap back out of the circuit, and tie the trickle charger
pin to
> ground, which is what the doc says to do when you aren't using a backup
> power system. I power cycle, try again...
>
> The DS1302 has gone mad. I can't set the time anymore: I get back
garbage
> when I read it, every time. I check the connections: yes, all the
lines are
> correct. I check the code. Yes, initialise the DS1302, enable the
trickle
> charger...
>
> Enable the trickle charger. I'd just tied the trickle pin to ground.
Oh...
> dear. (I did not actually say "Oh, dear", but it's possible that
children
> read this list, so I won't give an accurate description of my
verbiage at
> that moment. If any children *do* read this list, for mercy's sake, run.
> Find a normal hobby. Save yourselves.)
>
> This is turning out just like the Pump Project. I don't want to
think about
> the Pump project. That way madness lies.
>
> So here I sit. Giggling. Do I order another DS1302? Why, so I can
kill it,
> too? Maybe it deserves to die. Maybe they all deserve to die... bwah
> hahahah... yes.. kill them all, my precious... let the smoke out...
death to
> all hardware... the wall socket... 120v at 15A... watch the pretty
sparks...
> free the smoke within... free it all...
>
> No. I'm fine. I'm sane. I have not been driven to raving by little
pieces of
> electronics. I will get past this. I got past the Pump project,
didn't I?
> And the Doorbell project. *Flinch* The $175 Doorbell from Hell...
>
> I need to get a saner hobby. Heaven help me, I do.

Archiver

Dude! Thank you so much for that post... I almost wet my pants laughing!!
I really needed that today!! Boy, been there done that, felt that. My
downfall was the $400.00 animatronic skull for 1 night of Halloween
haunting I had to explain to my wife... Thats OK, the BSII in that became
my Raingutter Regatta race timer, so figure $200 for halloweeen and $200
for a two hour cub scout event... hmmm..

No one understands...... but us!! [noparse]:D[/noparse]

Vern

--
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services | paying you? Of course, if the network
http://www.txis.com | is up, then we obviously don't need
Austin Office 512 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG

Scott said:
> I need to get a saner hobby. It's day 17 of The Alarm Clock Project From
> Heck. I expected to spend 3 days on it. My wife has leared to avoid me
> when
> I'm muttering and poking at wires. My children are laughing behind my
> back.
> Why do I do this? Why don't I take up basket weaving or candlemaking? At
> least with those hobbies, you get something that *works*.
>
> The Quadravox Voice Module started my slow slide into madness. It's a
> simple
> device; no, honestly, a child could use it. *Only* children can use it,
> because children naturally believe in the miraculous, the magical and the
> incomprehensible. Just pull RST low for 100ms, then pull it high again.
> Wait
> 2000ms. Volia, now you can ask the board to speak words. That's what the
> doc
> states.
>
> Uh huh. The Quadravox speaks, alright: but the wrong words. It turns out
> that 2000ms is not enough. In fact, 10000ms is not enough. The trick is
> to
> wait 3000ms, ask it to speak something (which it generally gets wrong),
> and
> then wait 5000ms. *Then* it will work properly. How did I find this out?
> Trial and error.
>
> So I got that settled. Now we'll just program the DS1302.... Hm, trickle
> charging of backup power supply. Nifty: but the doc is incomprehensible.
> One
> diode or two? 2K vs 8k? How do I know? I just want it to charge up a big
> cap, and use that when the power fails. Maybe I should just put in a
> battery. No. I don't like batteries. Batteries don't merely go bad, they
> go
> bad and leak, corroding things. Never trust a battery in anything more
> expensive than a flashlight, that's my motto. And this alarm clock is
> already *obscenely* more expensive than any such device has a right to
> be.
>
> Skip the trickle charger. I'll just put a big capacitor and a diode
> network
> in on the main power pin, that will keep the DS1302 running for days when
> the power fails, no fear...
>
> Yes, fear. When I pulled the power cord, the chip would lose track of the
> time, even then the cap was fully charged at 5v. Not always, of course.
> Just... occasionally. Randomly. Given that my alarm clock has to be
> hooked
> back up to a computer to reset the time, which means I don't want to have
> to
> reset the time very often, I want the power backup scheme to *work*.
>
> OK. Let's do it the right way. Put the cap on the trickle charger side of
> the chip. Enable the chip's quirky little trickle charger option (fussle,
> fussle, fussle). How many diodes? What resistance to specify? Sheesh, the
> doc doesn't even give any hints. I went with one diode and 2K. Gee, that
> seems to be working!
>
> Working. Uh huh. For about a day. Suddenly the DS1302 reported it was
> February the 55th. Hm. OK, reset the clock.. Now it's January the 3rd...
> in
> the year 2000. At this point I hear laughing, and I suspect the Quadravox
> is
> mocking me, but no, it's me that's laughing. Manically. I have a
> soldering
> iron in my hand and I'm eyeing the DS1302. This is not good. I get a grip
> on
> myself.
>
> OK. Maybe the cap on the trickle charger was a bad move. In an AppNote I
> didn't find before, it talks about only using a SuperCap or a battery.
> What's a SuperCap? Is this soda-can sized 161,000uF@10v cap of mine a
> supercap? No idea. Maybe that's the problem. Maybe SuperCaps are
> *different*
> than other caps, and the DS1302 can tell the difference. Maybe it's
> offended. Can something that small get offended? How do you calm down
> offended hardware? I put the soldering iron down again. I take a deep
> breath. Violence is not the answer.
>
> I take the cap back out of the circuit, and tie the trickle charger pin
> to
> ground, which is what the doc says to do when you aren't using a backup
> power system. I power cycle, try again...
>
> The DS1302 has gone mad. I can't set the time anymore: I get back garbage
> when I read it, every time. I check the connections: yes, all the lines
> are
> correct. I check the code. Yes, initialise the DS1302, enable the trickle
> charger...
>
> Enable the trickle charger. I'd just tied the trickle pin to ground.
> Oh...
> dear. (I did not actually say "Oh, dear", but it's possible that children
> read this list, so I won't give an accurate description of my verbiage at
> that moment. If any children *do* read this list, for mercy's sake, run.
> Find a normal hobby. Save yourselves.)
>
> This is turning out just like the Pump Project. I don't want to think
> about
> the Pump project. That way madness lies.
>
> So here I sit. Giggling. Do I order another DS1302? Why, so I can kill
> it,
> too? Maybe it deserves to die. Maybe they all deserve to die... bwah
> hahahah... yes.. kill them all, my precious... let the smoke out... death
> to
> all hardware... the wall socket... 120v at 15A... watch the pretty
> sparks...
> free the smoke within... free it all...
>
> No. I'm fine. I'm sane. I have not been driven to raving by little pieces
> of
> electronics. I will get past this. I got past the Pump project, didn't I?
> And the Doorbell project. *Flinch* The $175 Doorbell from Hell...
>
> I need to get a saner hobby. Heaven help me, I do.
>
>
>
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>
>
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>
>
>

Archiver

Some try to understand... For instance when I go out to the garage
for about 15 min to 'dink' with some idea I have, my wife comes to
me the next day or so and says "I thought you were done with that",
or "I thought that you figured all that out". Where in reality
when a project works on the SBB (solderless bread board), in her
eyes it is done, finished, and ready to use. I at least like to
take projects to term with several trial and error periods on the SBB
before I etch and populate a board. Not to mention the various
other projects I have floating about at any given time. Currently
these seem to be a focal point:

1) Stand-alone Wave Player for my daughter's Ferris Wheel
(works on the SBB, but needs a little tweaking-grin)

2) keyboard & Mouse A B switch between a Sun UNIX and IBM PC
(one keyboard / one mouse)

3) Home Security Upgrade/Overhaul

4) Specific TV-Channel tuned Dipole antenna (for brother in-law)

5) Automatic sensor (train start/end) for model train crosslights
complete with ding-ding-ding sound and flashing lights. (for
brother in-law)

6) Several other various projects.


-Beau Schwabe


>Dude! Thank you so much for that post... I almost wet my pants laughing!!
>I really needed that today!! Boy, been there done that, felt that. My
>downfall was the $400.00 animatronic skull for 1 night of Halloween
>haunting I had to explain to my wife... Thats OK, the BSII in that became
>my Raingutter Regatta race timer, so figure $200 for halloweeen and $200
>for a two hour cub scout event... hmmm..
>
>No one understands...... but us!! [noparse]:D[/noparse]
>
>Vern

Archiver

As I'm sure many of you know, I write a lot of PC software books and
articles. My wife has learned to quit asking me what I am doing, but years
ago we would have conversations like this:

Pat: What are you working on?
Al: My C++ column for next month
Pat (feigning interest): Oh. What's it about?
Al: I'm showing people how to write programs that can paste pictures from
the clipboard.
Pat: Oh. Well you know, Microsoft Word can already paste pictures.
Al: Yes, but if you are writing your own program you have to know how to
make it work yourself.
Pat: But it is really easy. You just press Edit Paste on the menu.
Al: Yes, but that's because someone who wrote Word knows how to do what I'm
showing people how to do.
Pat: Why can't they just use Word?

This would go on until she would get bored with it. After the first 10
years, she pretty much quit doing it though. So I now have relative peace.

Al Williams
AWC
http://www.al-williams.com/awce

Archiver

Wow, so you ARE that Al Williams. I bought your
book on C/C++.

That's one of the complaints I have about Microsoft,
is that they have created some wonderful
off-the-shelf software, but yet it can be so
difficult to duplicate that functionality. It
can also be difficult to automate that functionality.

I would have thought, that having solved the
problem, they could make the solution (not just
the product) available to the world. Of course,
they still need a revenue stream, and if creating
Word was easy there goes your revenue stream.

Still, I'm glad there are people like you and
Parallax who can get you very close to the
solution you need, and tend to tell you how
to tweak what they've done.

--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Al Williams" <alw@a...> wrote:
> As I'm sure many of you know, I write a lot of PC software books and
> articles. My wife has learned to quit asking me what I am doing,
but years
> ago we would have conversations like this:
>
> Pat: What are you working on?
> Al: My C++ column for next month
> Pat (feigning interest): Oh. What's it about?
> Al: I'm showing people how to write programs that can paste
pictures from
> the clipboard.
> Pat: Oh. Well you know, Microsoft Word can already paste pictures.
> Al: Yes, but if you are writing your own program you have to know
how to
> make it work yourself.
> Pat: But it is really easy. You just press Edit Paste on the menu.
> Al: Yes, but that's because someone who wrote Word knows how to do
what I'm
> showing people how to do.
> Pat: Why can't they just use Word?
>
> This would go on until she would get bored with it. After the first
10
> years, she pretty much quit doing it though. So I now have relative
peace.
>
> Al Williams
> AWC
> http://www.al-williams.com/awce

Archiver

From: "Allan Lane" <allan.lane@h...>

>[noparse][[/noparse]...] they have created some wonderful
> off-the-shelf software, but yet it can be so
> difficult to duplicate that functionality.

Well, isn't that like complaining that it's hard to build your own Basic
Stamp from scratch because Parallax did such a good job? Or like eating a
fine meal at a top restaurant and then complaining that you won't be able to
cook it yourself tomorrow night?

>
> I would have thought, that having solved the
> problem, they could make the solution (not just
> the product) available to the world.
>
Actually, they pretty much do. Most of the things Microsoft products do can
be repeated by a competent programmer using Microsoft development products.
The development library includes enormous amounts of code that is relatively
easy to invoke -- assuming you're at least qualified to understand what the
code is supposed to accomplish. A lot of the software we see in specialty
markets is made practical by using these development tools from Microsoft.

The difficulty comes when you try to use that trick to compete with their
own products in the same general market as Microsoft themselves address.
Like Parallax and their tokenizer, people who spend years building something
don't like to give it to their competitors. An attitude I rather share
myself.

Gary

Archiver

Yes, I wrote the original post a little
ironically. Producers MUST have some kind
of revenue stream if they are going to
continue to innovate and produce. I don't
want them to GIVE away the store, OR their
intellectual property (IP).

Much as I bash Microsoft, if you subscribe
to their 'MSDN' CD/DVD's, or even buy a set
on Ebay occasionally, you find they really do
document the resources they provide.

(You also find there are some undocumented
features that they NEVER mention, which they
do use, which are only mentioned in non-softy
books. That's one reason I bash Microsoft)

(Their indexing of this information also
makes the information hard to find, unless
you know EXACTLY the command you need)

On the other hand, Parallax provides some of
the best documentation and application support
I've ever seen, still without giving away
their IP.

--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Gary W. Sims" <simsgw@c...>
wrote:
> From: "Allan Lane" <allan.lane@h...>
>
> >[noparse][[/noparse]...] they have created some wonderful
> > off-the-shelf software, but yet it can be so
> > difficult to duplicate that functionality.
>
> Well, isn't that like complaining that it's hard to build your own
Basic
> Stamp from scratch because Parallax did such a good job? Or like
eating a
> fine meal at a top restaurant and then complaining that you won't
be able to
> cook it yourself tomorrow night?
>
> >
> > I would have thought, that having solved the
> > problem, they could make the solution (not just
> > the product) available to the world.
> >
> Actually, they pretty much do. Most of the things Microsoft
products do can
> be repeated by a competent programmer using Microsoft development
products.
> The development library includes enormous amounts of code that is
relatively
> easy to invoke -- assuming you're at least qualified to understand
what the
> code is supposed to accomplish. A lot of the software we see in
specialty
> markets is made practical by using these development tools from
Microsoft.
>
> The difficulty comes when you try to use that trick to compete with
their
> own products in the same general market as Microsoft themselves
address.
> Like Parallax and their tokenizer, people who spend years building
something
> don't like to give it to their competitors. An attitude I rather
share
> myself.
>
> Gary

Archiver

In a message dated 12/11/2003 7:32:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,
allan.lane@h... writes:
On the other hand, Parallax provides some of
the best documentation and application support
I've ever seen, still without giving away
their IP.

---

How true,

ken


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