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Long range communication

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2003-12-02 22:54 in General Discussion
Has anyone ever tried using two of those 5-mile radios (I think they
are GRMS) to communicate between two stamps. Could it be as simple
as putting a relay to transmit across the push-to-talk button to
transmit. Maybe have the transmitting stamp put out X amount of
pulses and the receiving stamp can decode those pulses. Does anyone
have any experience with this or know where I can get more
information?

Thanks,

Chris

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-02 15:36
    GMRS requires a $75.00 License for the operator at each end, FRS does not.
    However I am uncertain as to the use of digital communication on those bands.
    Ham radio allows for digital modes and licensing is a mere $6.00 to take the
    exam.

    That being said, you would need a "COR" signal coming from the receiver to
    recognize the presence of an unmodulated carrier to
    implement the method you described.
    I have had some success in using "Direct FSK" but the range tends to be less
    than that of a voice signal, DTMF provides a bit more
    range, but slows the throughput.
    If speed vs. bandwidth dictates there a devices known as "TNC's" which are radio
    modems that allow digital serial data to be sent
    over distances equal to or greater than that of voice using the same radio
    equipment.

    - KF4HAZ -

    From: "christopher41877" <CHRIS@
    > Has anyone ever tried using two of those 5-mile radios (I think they
    > are GRMS) to communicate between two stamps. Could it be as simple
    > as putting a relay to transmit across the push-to-talk button to
    > transmit. Maybe have the transmitting stamp put out X amount of
    > pulses and the receiving stamp can decode those pulses. Does anyone
    > have any experience with this or know where I can get more
    > information?
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Chris
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-02 15:49
    Can you use ham radios to send signals? I was thinking more along
    the lines of morse code. I know that it's easier to interpret
    pulses instead of voice communication and that's why I was thinking
    of cheap radios. Thanks for the info.

    Chris


    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "FalconWireless Tech Support -
    KF4HAZ" <techsupport@f...> wrote:
    > GMRS requires a $75.00 License for the operator at each end, FRS
    does not.
    > However I am uncertain as to the use of digital communication on
    those bands.
    > Ham radio allows for digital modes and licensing is a mere $6.00
    to take the exam.
    >
    > That being said, you would need a "COR" signal coming from the
    receiver to recognize the presence of an unmodulated carrier to
    > implement the method you described.
    > I have had some success in using "Direct FSK" but the range tends
    to be less than that of a voice signal, DTMF provides a bit more
    > range, but slows the throughput.
    > If speed vs. bandwidth dictates there a devices known as "TNC's"
    which are radio modems that allow digital serial data to be sent
    > over distances equal to or greater than that of voice using the
    same radio equipment.
    >
    > - KF4HAZ -
    >
    >
    From: "christopher41877" <CHRIS@
    > > Has anyone ever tried using two of those 5-mile radios (I think
    they
    > > are GRMS) to communicate between two stamps. Could it be as
    simple
    > > as putting a relay to transmit across the push-to-talk button to
    > > transmit. Maybe have the transmitting stamp put out X amount of
    > > pulses and the receiving stamp can decode those pulses. Does
    anyone
    > > have any experience with this or know where I can get more
    > > information?
    > >
    > > Thanks,
    > >
    > > Chris
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-02 16:05
    We use ham radio extensivly for digital communications.
    There is lots of hardware out there for the HAM from simple
    radio modems, aka TNCs to things the PSK31 and a host of
    other protocols. In fact ham radio has been doing wireless
    data communications since it's inception in the early days
    of radio.

    The biggest problem lies inthe fact that high speed
    communications is almost non existant in the HAM bands. Most
    of it is in te 1200 baud or below range because there are
    legal limitations to bandwidths and most of the high speed
    stuff is not done in the ham bands. We do do amatuer TV,
    Slow Scan TV and a number of other high bandwidth protocols,
    but almost all the ham based data transmissions are done at
    a fairly low speed due to these bandwidth limitations. If
    you can live with 9600 baud, there are a number of options
    available to all hams, technician class and above. 9600 baud
    is pretty good unless you plan on sending lot's of graphics,
    in which case, you'll just have to wait. For graphics, it's
    better to send via ATV on a seperate channel. If you're
    planing relativly short range communications, there are a
    number of commercial options available to you. By the time
    you pay for all the hardware, you'd probably be better off
    using a comercial venue. A cellular modem is small and not
    as expesive as some other options, but you pay for the
    service.

    If you operate in the 0-500 foot range, I would suggest
    using wireless ethernet. There are ethernet modules that can
    be plugged into the stamp and those can be connected to
    wireless 802.11b or 802.11g adaptors that are readily
    available. These offer high bandwidth capabilities that the
    stamp will not push. Look at the wireless game adaptors for
    the xbox and playstation from Linksys. They're fairly
    bulletproof, cheap and don't require any licensing to
    operate.
    --
    Regards

    Dave Evartt
    American Hovercraft
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-02 16:06
    Yes a Technician class license gives you remote control and radio telemetry
    privileges in some parts of the bands. As to cheap
    radios, after you get your license visit a hamfest, you can pick up bricks like
    the good ol htx-202 with a busted lcd cheap, and who
    cares if the display is shot if you want to play packet or monitor a remote
    weather station or control some new experimental gizmo.
    Experimentation is encouraged in the ham bands (within the frequency ranges
    designated for experimental/digital/remote/et.al.)
    provided you have the license.

    From: "christopher41877" <CHRIS@
    > Can you use ham radios to send signals? I was thinking more along
    > the lines of morse code. I know that it's easier to interpret
    > pulses instead of voice communication and that's why I was thinking
    > of cheap radios. Thanks for the info.
    >
    > Chris
    >
    >
    > --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "FalconWireless Tech Support -
    > KF4HAZ" <techsupport@f...> wrote:
    > > GMRS requires a $75.00 License for the operator at each end, FRS
    > does not.
    > > However I am uncertain as to the use of digital communication on
    > those bands.
    > > Ham radio allows for digital modes and licensing is a mere $6.00
    > to take the exam.
    > >
    > > That being said, you would need a "COR" signal coming from the
    > receiver to recognize the presence of an unmodulated carrier to
    > > implement the method you described.
    > > I have had some success in using "Direct FSK" but the range tends
    > to be less than that of a voice signal, DTMF provides a bit more
    > > range, but slows the throughput.
    > > If speed vs. bandwidth dictates there a devices known as "TNC's"
    > which are radio modems that allow digital serial data to be sent
    > > over distances equal to or greater than that of voice using the
    > same radio equipment.
    > >
    > > - KF4HAZ -
    > >
    > >
    From: "christopher41877" <CHRIS@
    > > > Has anyone ever tried using two of those 5-mile radios (I think
    > they
    > > > are GRMS) to communicate between two stamps. Could it be as
    > simple
    > > > as putting a relay to transmit across the push-to-talk button to
    > > > transmit. Maybe have the transmitting stamp put out X amount of
    > > > pulses and the receiving stamp can decode those pulses. Does
    > anyone
    > > > have any experience with this or know where I can get more
    > > > information?
    > > >
    > > > Thanks,
    > > >
    > > > Chris
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
    of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-02 16:12
    Fantastic, but two more questions since I have little knowledge of
    ham radios. 1, what is the range? 2, where can I get more
    information on getting a license?

    Thanks,

    Chris


    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "FalconWireless Tech Support -
    KF4HAZ" <techsupport@f...> wrote:
    > Yes a Technician class license gives you remote control and radio
    telemetry privileges in some parts of the bands. As to cheap
    > radios, after you get your license visit a hamfest, you can pick
    up bricks like the good ol htx-202 with a busted lcd cheap, and who
    > cares if the display is shot if you want to play packet or monitor
    a remote weather station or control some new experimental gizmo.
    > Experimentation is encouraged in the ham bands (within the
    frequency ranges designated for experimental/digital/remote/et.al.)
    > provided you have the license.
    >
    >
    From: "christopher41877" <CHRIS@
    > > Can you use ham radios to send signals? I was thinking more
    along
    > > the lines of morse code. I know that it's easier to interpret
    > > pulses instead of voice communication and that's why I was
    thinking
    > > of cheap radios. Thanks for the info.
    > >
    > > Chris
    > >
    > >
    > > --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "FalconWireless Tech
    Support -
    > > KF4HAZ" <techsupport@f...> wrote:
    > > > GMRS requires a $75.00 License for the operator at each end,
    FRS
    > > does not.
    > > > However I am uncertain as to the use of digital communication
    on
    > > those bands.
    > > > Ham radio allows for digital modes and licensing is a mere
    $6.00
    > > to take the exam.
    > > >
    > > > That being said, you would need a "COR" signal coming from the
    > > receiver to recognize the presence of an unmodulated carrier to
    > > > implement the method you described.
    > > > I have had some success in using "Direct FSK" but the range
    tends
    > > to be less than that of a voice signal, DTMF provides a bit more
    > > > range, but slows the throughput.
    > > > If speed vs. bandwidth dictates there a devices known
    as "TNC's"
    > > which are radio modems that allow digital serial data to be sent
    > > > over distances equal to or greater than that of voice using the
    > > same radio equipment.
    > > >
    > > > - KF4HAZ -
    > > >
    > > >
    From: "christopher41877" <CHRIS@
    > > > > Has anyone ever tried using two of those 5-mile radios (I
    think
    > > they
    > > > > are GRMS) to communicate between two stamps. Could it be as
    > > simple
    > > > > as putting a relay to transmit across the push-to-talk
    button to
    > > > > transmit. Maybe have the transmitting stamp put out X
    amount of
    > > > > pulses and the receiving stamp can decode those pulses. Does
    > > anyone
    > > > > have any experience with this or know where I can get more
    > > > > information?
    > > > >
    > > > > Thanks,
    > > > >
    > > > > Chris
    > >
    > >
    > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
    Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > >
    > >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-02 16:56
    I am using a 2-way pager modem right now but I liked the radio idea
    because there is no monthly service.


    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Dave Evartt <davee@a...> wrote:
    > We use ham radio extensivly for digital communications.
    > There is lots of hardware out there for the HAM from simple
    > radio modems, aka TNCs to things the PSK31 and a host of
    > other protocols. In fact ham radio has been doing wireless
    > data communications since it's inception in the early days
    > of radio.
    >
    > The biggest problem lies inthe fact that high speed
    > communications is almost non existant in the HAM bands. Most
    > of it is in te 1200 baud or below range because there are
    > legal limitations to bandwidths and most of the high speed
    > stuff is not done in the ham bands. We do do amatuer TV,
    > Slow Scan TV and a number of other high bandwidth protocols,
    > but almost all the ham based data transmissions are done at
    > a fairly low speed due to these bandwidth limitations. If
    > you can live with 9600 baud, there are a number of options
    > available to all hams, technician class and above. 9600 baud
    > is pretty good unless you plan on sending lot's of graphics,
    > in which case, you'll just have to wait. For graphics, it's
    > better to send via ATV on a seperate channel. If you're
    > planing relativly short range communications, there are a
    > number of commercial options available to you. By the time
    > you pay for all the hardware, you'd probably be better off
    > using a comercial venue. A cellular modem is small and not
    > as expesive as some other options, but you pay for the
    > service.
    >
    > If you operate in the 0-500 foot range, I would suggest
    > using wireless ethernet. There are ethernet modules that can
    > be plugged into the stamp and those can be connected to
    > wireless 802.11b or 802.11g adaptors that are readily
    > available. These offer high bandwidth capabilities that the
    > stamp will not push. Look at the wireless game adaptors for
    > the xbox and playstation from Linksys. They're fairly
    > bulletproof, cheap and don't require any licensing to
    > operate.
    > --
    > Regards
    >
    > Dave Evartt
    > American Hovercraft
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-02 19:43
    As for range, I have talked 90miles on 1 watt on VHF, made a contact with the
    south-pole-expedition using 40watts on 80meters,
    Australia using 10w on 40 meters, and have made digital 9600 baud connections on
    6 meters with 150watts over a 250 mile distance.
    for more info on getting started see
    http://www.remote.arrl.org/hamradio.html
    or simply start at www.arrl.org and browse around
    - KF4HAZ -

    From: "christopher41877" <CHRIS@
    > Fantastic, but two more questions since I have little knowledge of
    > ham radios. 1, what is the range? 2, where can I get more
    > information on getting a license?
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Chris
    >
    >
    > --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "FalconWireless Tech Support -
    > KF4HAZ" <techsupport@f...> wrote:
    > > Yes a Technician class license gives you remote control and radio
    > telemetry privileges in some parts of the bands. As to cheap
    > > radios, after you get your license visit a hamfest, you can pick
    > up bricks like the good ol htx-202 with a busted lcd cheap, and who
    > > cares if the display is shot if you want to play packet or monitor
    > a remote weather station or control some new experimental gizmo.
    > > Experimentation is encouraged in the ham bands (within the
    > frequency ranges designated for experimental/digital/remote/et.al.)
    > > provided you have the license.
    > >
    > >
    From: "christopher41877" <CHRIS@
    > > > Can you use ham radios to send signals? I was thinking more
    > along
    > > > the lines of morse code. I know that it's easier to interpret
    > > > pulses instead of voice communication and that's why I was
    > thinking
    > > > of cheap radios. Thanks for the info.
    > > >
    > > > Chris
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "FalconWireless Tech
    > Support -
    > > > KF4HAZ" <techsupport@f...> wrote:
    > > > > GMRS requires a $75.00 License for the operator at each end,
    > FRS
    > > > does not.
    > > > > However I am uncertain as to the use of digital communication
    > on
    > > > those bands.
    > > > > Ham radio allows for digital modes and licensing is a mere
    > $6.00
    > > > to take the exam.
    > > > >
    > > > > That being said, you would need a "COR" signal coming from the
    > > > receiver to recognize the presence of an unmodulated carrier to
    > > > > implement the method you described.
    > > > > I have had some success in using "Direct FSK" but the range
    > tends
    > > > to be less than that of a voice signal, DTMF provides a bit more
    > > > > range, but slows the throughput.
    > > > > If speed vs. bandwidth dictates there a devices known
    > as "TNC's"
    > > > which are radio modems that allow digital serial data to be sent
    > > > > over distances equal to or greater than that of voice using the
    > > > same radio equipment.
    > > > >
    > > > > - KF4HAZ -
    > > > >
    > > > >
    From: "christopher41877" <CHRIS@
    > > > > > Has anyone ever tried using two of those 5-mile radios (I
    > think
    > > > they
    > > > > > are GRMS) to communicate between two stamps. Could it be as
    > > > simple
    > > > > > as putting a relay to transmit across the push-to-talk
    > button to
    > > > > > transmit. Maybe have the transmitting stamp put out X
    > amount of
    > > > > > pulses and the receiving stamp can decode those pulses. Does
    > > > anyone
    > > > > > have any experience with this or know where I can get more
    > > > > > information?
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Thanks,
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Chris
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
    > Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > > >
    > > >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
    of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-02 22:19
    Hi Chris,
    One more thing about Ham Radio. I do not know what your application is.
    Amateur Radio Communications is for non commercial use only. If you want to use
    it
    to monitor a commercial remote site, it is not allowed. If you want to monitor
    a remote site for personal use then it is a great application for Ham Radio.
    Just wanted to make that point.

    Alan Bradford N1YMQ
    Plasma Technologies

    In a message dated 12/2/2003 12:12:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
    CHRIS@R... writes:
    I am using a 2-way pager modem right now but I liked the radio idea
    because there is no monthly service.


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-02 22:54
    Good point Alan, I just assumed he was doing something experimental.
    If it is for business use the options are MURS or a business band license.
    Either way you go Chris, keep in mind that your circuit will need to monitor the
    COR signal to ensure the frequency is not in use
    before it PTT's and burps out it's data.

    Lonnie Underwood - KF4HAZ -

    From: <plasmastamp@a
    > Hi Chris,
    > One more thing about Ham Radio. I do not know what your application is.
    > Amateur Radio Communications is for non commercial use only. If you want to
    use it
    > to monitor a commercial remote site, it is not allowed. If you want to monitor
    > a remote site for personal use then it is a great application for Ham Radio.
    > Just wanted to make that point.
    >
    > Alan Bradford N1YMQ
    > Plasma Technologies
    >
    > In a message dated 12/2/2003 12:12:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
    > CHRIS@R... writes:
    > I am using a 2-way pager modem right now but I liked the radio idea
    > because there is no monthly service.
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