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High Voltage Interface — Parallax Forums

High Voltage Interface

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2003-11-22 05:40 in General Discussion
Hi,


I need to interface a 100mA 24VDC device with 750 VDC. I was
thinking of making a voltage divider circuit say 30 to 1. Can
someone tell me if this will work or will it go up in smoke?

Thanks,

Chris

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-11-21 03:58
    Chris,

    Please don't take this wrong.....but if you don't know the answer to that
    question, you probably should not be messing with a circuit that carries 750
    VDC.
    It can kill you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    ---



    I need to interface a 100mA 24VDC device with 750 VDC. I was
    thinking of making a voltage divider circuit say 30 to 1. Can
    someone tell me if this will work or will it go up in smoke?

    Thanks,

    Chris


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-11-21 04:08
    I know what precautions to take in reference to high voltage
    circuits and even if this shorted it wouldn't matter because it is
    fused. I work around these voltages every day and I am extremely
    safe. I simply need to know if a voltage divider circuit (30 to 1)
    would work in stepping down a voltage of 750 VDC to 25 VDC @100mA?


    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, smartdim@a... wrote:
    > Chris,
    >
    > Please don't take this wrong.....but if you don't know the answer
    to that
    > question, you probably should not be messing with a circuit that
    carries 750 VDC.
    > It can kill you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    >
    >

    > ---
    >
    >
    >
    > I need to interface a 100mA 24VDC device with 750 VDC. I was
    > thinking of making a voltage divider circuit say 30 to 1. Can
    > someone tell me if this will work or will it go up in smoke?
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Chris
    >
    >
    > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-11-21 04:15
    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, smartdim@a... wrote:
    > Chris,
    >
    > Please don't take this wrong.....but if you don't know the answer
    to that
    > question, you probably should not be messing with a circuit that
    carries 750 VDC.
    > It can kill you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    AMEN!
    Sometimes the questions posted here are pretty broad or vague.
    This one should not be one of them!
    Either be very specific about your "interface" or do not even get
    within spitting distance of this project!
    Vaclav
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-11-21 04:24
    Ok,

    Apparently I am not being specific enough for the group. I have a
    device that works off of 750 VDC. I need to know when it is turned
    on. What is the easiest way to do this?

    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "aa7ej" <aa7ej@y...> wrote:
    > --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, smartdim@a... wrote:
    > > Chris,
    > >
    > > Please don't take this wrong.....but if you don't know the
    answer
    > to that
    > > question, you probably should not be messing with a circuit that
    > carries 750 VDC.
    > > It can kill you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    >
    > AMEN!
    > Sometimes the questions posted here are pretty broad or vague.
    > This one should not be one of them!
    > Either be very specific about your "interface" or do not even get
    > within spitting distance of this project!
    > Vaclav
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-11-21 04:43
    I would try to keep a high degree of isolation between the 750VDC and the
    rest of the circuit. For example, allow the 750VDC circuit to drive an
    electromagnet and then use a reed switch that will draw in when current
    flows. You can probably even find relays that work at that voltage and
    current. Now you have a pretty safe deal since there is no direct connection
    between the two sides. Be sure the relay is overrated for your application.
    If you don't want anything mechanical, you could use a hall effect sensor
    instead of a reed.

    Optical would be another way to go. If you could light a neon or other type
    of bulb, you could sense the light from it. Again, very safe.

    Regardless of how safe you feel it would be, I would strongly recommend not
    using a voltage divider for lots of reasons. There are many very bad failure
    modes that would be of nuisance value at 5V but would be disastrous at
    750VDC. Also, wiring at 750V requires some care. You need insulation that is
    sturdy enough, no sharp points, and a certain distance between anything
    exposed. In many states (maybe all of them), you would need to be a licensed
    electrician to legally wire something like this.

    I would also avoid any scheme involving current sensing torroids or other
    transformers. Again, too many failure modes that would be very hazardous.

    As the other posters mention, I would urge you to be very careful working
    with something like this. If you have any doubt, you should defer to someone
    with experience. This is one case where mistakes are not good teachers.

    Al Williams
    AWC
    *New Position Sensor Kit
    http://www.al-williams.com/gp5.htm


    >
    Original Message
    > From: christopher41877 [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=ScNjPYhKA3IfukR07ULoqZrifIL2F8wQBZMgqDw5AqgAgHe88vWDDfH1cPWpStqui2u6lmJz7pd3YMTcuuvjaE_e]CHRIS@R...[/url
    > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 10:24 PM
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: High Voltage Interface
    >
    >
    > Ok,
    >
    > Apparently I am not being specific enough for the group. I have a
    > device that works off of 750 VDC. I need to know when it is turned
    > on. What is the easiest way to do this?
    >
    > --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "aa7ej" <aa7ej@y...> wrote:
    > > --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, smartdim@a... wrote:
    > > > Chris,
    > > >
    > > > Please don't take this wrong.....but if you don't know the
    > answer
    > > to that
    > > > question, you probably should not be messing with a circuit that
    > > carries 750 VDC.
    > > > It can kill you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    > >
    > > AMEN!
    > > Sometimes the questions posted here are pretty broad or vague. This
    > > one should not be one of them! Either be very specific about your
    > > "interface" or do not even get within spitting distance of this
    > > project! Vaclav
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
    > Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-11-21 04:49
    You're bound to have some kind of AC power supply for this thing (right?).
    How about using an inductive pick-up on the AC side of things to tell when
    it's sourcing power? This would be the easiest and safest, I should think.

    Idea #2 (I'm not sure if it would work, though)... How about using an
    inductive pick-up on the DC side? You would only get a signal during turn-on
    and turn-off, but I think it might work.

    If I'm not being too inquisitive, what the heck do you have that runs off of
    750V DC?

    - Robert


    >
    Original Message
    >From: christopher41877 [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=PX3f8rmgpOkjabcai7PkN8vRNNLlCJvnuK9o0nDAc8nh4U67iuDLz6rJM5-v9XcX-BFppmb6PtLGhW9tNsE5wI-F]CHRIS@R...[/url
    >
    >Ok,
    >
    >Apparently I am not being specific enough for the group. I have a
    >device that works off of 750 VDC. I need to know when it is turned
    >on. What is the easiest way to do this?
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-11-21 11:21
    Hi Chris,
    First off...A fuse will not blow faster than your heart can stop. Im sure you
    don't want to bet your life on it. It takes 150 microamps to stop your heart.
    At 750 volts your skin resistance is not as good a protector as it is at 100
    or lower. A 750 Volt 100 MA power source is VERY DEADLY.
    Also DC is more dangerous than AC as it will paralyze your muscles and make
    it difficult if not impossible to let go.
    Use great big boat loads of caution, and if in doubt don't do it.

    Yes, and no to the voltage divider. If you are just looking for an On/Off
    condition I would use an opto-isolator with a big dropping resistor. Actually I
    would use 2-3 in series as an added precaution.
    Is the 750 VDC clean or noisy?
    Use a dropping resistor to allow the current flow you need to trigger the
    opto isolator's input LED. If you put 2 to 3 in series then if one shorts out
    you
    still have others to give you a true indication of On/Off. Do not trust this
    indicator before working on the circuit. Check it with a Volt Meter and make
    sure the filter caps have bleeder resistors and they work.

    I have built voltage dividers to measure 800 Volt DC outputs from Plasma
    Cutting Machines (at 1000 amps).
    I use lots of filtering and an Analog Opto Isolation Amplifier.

    Good luck and be safe.
    Alan Bradford
    Plasma Technologies


    In a message dated 11/20/2003 9:34:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
    CHRIS@R... writes:
    Hi,


    I need to interface a 100mA 24VDC device with 750 VDC. I was
    thinking of making a voltage divider circuit say 30 to 1. Can
    someone tell me if this will work or will it go up in smoke?

    Thanks,

    Chris


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-11-21 13:03
    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Ussery" <uavscience@f...>
    wrote:
    >
    > You're bound to have some kind of AC power supply for this thing
    (right?).
    > How about using an inductive pick-up on the AC side of things to
    tell when
    > it's sourcing power? This would be the easiest and safest, I should
    think.
    >
    > Idea #2 (I'm not sure if it would work, though)... How about using
    an
    > inductive pick-up on the DC side? You would only get a signal
    during turn-on
    > and turn-off, but I think it might work.
    >
    > If I'm not being too inquisitive, what the heck do you have that
    runs off of
    > 750V DC?
    >
    > - Robert

    I have to concur that the DC is a result of some AC input. my first
    thought was a welder, but those are often extremely low Volts/high
    amp jobbs.

    a CT or Current Transformer will yield a signal on the AC side that
    relates to the current used. so it will change output as the current
    changes.

    The problem we joke about is that "it's not he volt, but the AMPS
    that will kill you"

    with 750V, an arc will occur at about 0.001" per each 70 volts, so an
    arc may occur at 0.01". this would be a normal and expected thing,
    not the oddity or worst case. I get this from the EDM (Electronic
    Discharge Machine) used to cut metals and extrapolated it to 750
    volts. those machines are used at MUCH lower voltages.

    OK, that said, the sense wires will have 750 volts. so they need to
    be separated.

    normally, I'd point out that the wire used to carry the load will
    have a voltage drop and you could get a reading, but still the
    voltage is too high.

    Putting a resistor near each pick-up might work to drop the sense
    line voltage so you never get high voltages near anything or each
    other, or ground.

    even bringing out the leads for a sensor is kinda scarry.

    But, my recommendation is to find another way.

    Dave
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-11-21 13:29
    Thanks for all of the replies, especially Al. This voltage is from
    an electric transit bus in California. Anyway, this is being done
    in a controlled environment and I won't even have to go near it when
    the power is on. Like I said, I know how to be safe around it just
    wasn't sure how to monitor it.


    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Mucha" <davemucha@j...>
    wrote:
    > --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Ussery"
    <uavscience@f...>
    > wrote:
    > >
    > > You're bound to have some kind of AC power supply for this thing
    > (right?).
    > > How about using an inductive pick-up on the AC side of things to
    > tell when
    > > it's sourcing power? This would be the easiest and safest, I
    should
    > think.
    > >
    > > Idea #2 (I'm not sure if it would work, though)... How about
    using
    > an
    > > inductive pick-up on the DC side? You would only get a signal
    > during turn-on
    > > and turn-off, but I think it might work.
    > >
    > > If I'm not being too inquisitive, what the heck do you have that
    > runs off of
    > > 750V DC?
    > >
    > > - Robert
    >
    > I have to concur that the DC is a result of some AC input. my
    first
    > thought was a welder, but those are often extremely low Volts/high
    > amp jobbs.
    >
    > a CT or Current Transformer will yield a signal on the AC side
    that
    > relates to the current used. so it will change output as the
    current
    > changes.
    >
    > The problem we joke about is that "it's not he volt, but the AMPS
    > that will kill you"
    >
    > with 750V, an arc will occur at about 0.001" per each 70 volts, so
    an
    > arc may occur at 0.01". this would be a normal and expected thing,
    > not the oddity or worst case. I get this from the EDM (Electronic
    > Discharge Machine) used to cut metals and extrapolated it to 750
    > volts. those machines are used at MUCH lower voltages.
    >
    > OK, that said, the sense wires will have 750 volts. so they need
    to
    > be separated.
    >
    > normally, I'd point out that the wire used to carry the load will
    > have a voltage drop and you could get a reading, but still the
    > voltage is too high.
    >
    > Putting a resistor near each pick-up might work to drop the sense
    > line voltage so you never get high voltages near anything or each
    > other, or ground.
    >
    > even bringing out the leads for a sensor is kinda scarry.
    >
    > But, my recommendation is to find another way.
    >
    > Dave
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-11-21 14:16
    It will work. But there are caveats.

    Notes. We work with high Voltage daily, up to 100 kV, but usually uner 35
    kV.

    Resistors have Voltage limits. While it may be simple to put a single 20
    Meg Ohm RCR07 resistor on 30 kV to drop the Voltage down, a single RCR07
    resistor has a Voltage rating of only 250 Volts, across the single resistor.

    Also, make certain that the Voltage divider is complete within the box.
    Example, real one. The Tektronix high Voltage oscilloscope probe uses the
    oscilloscope itself as a part of the Voltage divider. If one were to
    measure 30 kV, and with the probe still attached to 30 kV, remove the probe
    from the front of the oscilloscope, then there will be 30 kV snapping in
    your hand across the bnc connector on the probe interface, which, by the
    way, is rated for less than 1kV<G>.

    The opto-isolator is a great idea. They make them which isolate 10 kV, and
    are relatively easy to find. Also, wire dress and grounding is extremely
    important.

    You didn't say which direction you were trying to go? Control the 24 VDC
    with the 750 or the other way around.

    We generally use FET transistors for less than 1 kV. Turn the fet on with
    TTL. If a FET dies, it shorts the 1 kV to ground. Still, there is a small
    amount of risk that it may get into the TTL, but never seen it yet<G>.
    These boxes are isolated from people<G>.

    The opto is an excellent approach.

    Original Message
    From: plasmastamp@a... [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=I2Jb5fXPc1cg3WNjtvgopX2T2jBKaPPj6GOeoE7AGEG7Eraj_KQt-I0mcWRuyRp6cPXdbVS0H0V_5Q]plasmastamp@a...[/url
    Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 6:22 AM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] High Voltage Interface


    Hi Chris,
    First off...A fuse will not blow faster than your heart can stop. Im sure
    you
    don't want to bet your life on it. It takes 150 microamps to stop your
    heart.
    At 750 volts your skin resistance is not as good a protector as it is at 100

    or lower. A 750 Volt 100 MA power source is VERY DEADLY.
    Also DC is more dangerous than AC as it will paralyze your muscles and make
    it difficult if not impossible to let go.
    Use great big boat loads of caution, and if in doubt don't do it.

    Yes, and no to the voltage divider. If you are just looking for an On/Off
    condition I would use an opto-isolator with a big dropping resistor.
    Actually I
    would use 2-3 in series as an added precaution.
    Is the 750 VDC clean or noisy?
    Use a dropping resistor to allow the current flow you need to trigger the
    opto isolator's input LED. If you put 2 to 3 in series then if one shorts
    out you
    still have others to give you a true indication of On/Off. Do not trust this

    indicator before working on the circuit. Check it with a Volt Meter and make

    sure the filter caps have bleeder resistors and they work.

    I have built voltage dividers to measure 800 Volt DC outputs from Plasma
    Cutting Machines (at 1000 amps).
    I use lots of filtering and an Analog Opto Isolation Amplifier.

    Good luck and be safe.
    Alan Bradford
    Plasma Technologies


    In a message dated 11/20/2003 9:34:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
    CHRIS@R... writes:
    Hi,


    I need to interface a 100mA 24VDC device with 750 VDC. I was
    thinking of making a voltage divider circuit say 30 to 1. Can
    someone tell me if this will work or will it go up in smoke?

    Thanks,

    Chris


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


    To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-11-21 15:14

    From: "christopher41877" <CHRIS@
    > Thanks for all of the replies, especially Al. This voltage is from
    > an electric transit bus in California. Anyway, this is being done
    > in a controlled environment and I won't even have to go near it when
    > the power is on. Like I said, I know how to be safe around it just
    > wasn't sure how to monitor it.

    A few more specifics please:
    Is the current constant? Is it Known?
    Is one side of the circuit grounded?
    Are you looking for a simple on / off indication?
    Or Do you need to know the amount of current flowing, or the voltage present?
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-11-21 15:21
    Use a current sensing Transformer


    Larry





    Original Message
    From: "christopher41877" <CHRIS@R...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: November 20, 2003 8:24 PM
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: High Voltage Interface


    : Ok,
    :
    : Apparently I am not being specific enough for the group. I have a
    : device that works off of 750 VDC. I need to know when it is turned
    : on. What is the easiest way to do this?
    :
    : --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "aa7ej" <aa7ej@y...> wrote:
    : > --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, smartdim@a... wrote:
    : > > Chris,
    : > >
    : > > Please don't take this wrong.....but if you don't know the
    : answer
    : > to that
    : > > question, you probably should not be messing with a circuit that
    : > carries 750 VDC.
    : > > It can kill you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    : >
    : > AMEN!
    : > Sometimes the questions posted here are pretty broad or vague.
    : > This one should not be one of them!
    : > Either be very specific about your "interface" or do not even get
    : > within spitting distance of this project!
    : > Vaclav
    :
    :
    : To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    : basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    : from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    :
    :
    : Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    :
    :
    :
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-11-21 15:23
    You should be aware that the BasicStamp is used by
    many schools, from elementary to high-schools to
    junior-colleges. Our audience can be VERY innocent,
    and very in-experienced. Plus, the audience for
    transit equipment that deals with this kind of
    voltage (and BTW, huge currents also) is kind of
    small.

    Your original question, short as it was, had the
    brevity we associate with inexperience -- and all
    posters reacted appropriately with dire warnings.

    Also, very few of us have dealt with this
    equipment, so you had to deal with our innocence
    too.

    I think you've gotten several good suggestions so
    far. If you MUST monitor the 750 VDC line,
    isolation is the keyword. A voltage divider does
    NOT give you that kind of isolation. Yes, things
    can and will explode. Monitoring a 750 VDC lamp
    with a light sensor is your best bet.

    If you can find some other lower voltage control
    point to monitor, that's better. Note that
    electric motor voltage/current tends to be VERY
    NOISY -- brush arcs, current surges, voltage peaks.
    So whatever method you use should filter the noise,
    or you'll have to filter it in software.

    P.S. I'm glad you don't have to be near it when
    the power is on. You WILL have to be near whatever
    monitor equipment you build to indicate it IS on.
    We don't want you to couple that voltage into
    your monitor.


    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "christopher41877" <CHRIS@R...>
    wrote:
    > Thanks for all of the replies, especially Al. This voltage is from
    > an electric transit bus in California. Anyway, this is being done
    > in a controlled environment and I won't even have to go near it
    when
    > the power is on. Like I said, I know how to be safe around it just
    > wasn't sure how to monitor it.
    >
    >
    > --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Mucha" <davemucha@j...>
    > wrote:
    > > --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Ussery"
    > <uavscience@f...>
    > > wrote:
    > > >
    > > > You're bound to have some kind of AC power supply for this
    thing
    > > (right?).
    > > > How about using an inductive pick-up on the AC side of things
    to
    > > tell when
    > > > it's sourcing power? This would be the easiest and safest, I
    > should
    > > think.
    > > >
    > > > Idea #2 (I'm not sure if it would work, though)... How about
    > using
    > > an
    > > > inductive pick-up on the DC side? You would only get a signal
    > > during turn-on
    > > > and turn-off, but I think it might work.
    > > >
    > > > If I'm not being too inquisitive, what the heck do you have
    that
    > > runs off of
    > > > 750V DC?
    > > >
    > > > - Robert
    > >
    > > I have to concur that the DC is a result of some AC input. my
    > first
    > > thought was a welder, but those are often extremely low
    Volts/high
    > > amp jobbs.
    > >
    > > a CT or Current Transformer will yield a signal on the AC side
    > that
    > > relates to the current used. so it will change output as the
    > current
    > > changes.
    > >
    > > The problem we joke about is that "it's not he volt, but the AMPS
    > > that will kill you"
    > >
    > > with 750V, an arc will occur at about 0.001" per each 70 volts,
    so
    > an
    > > arc may occur at 0.01". this would be a normal and expected
    thing,
    > > not the oddity or worst case. I get this from the EDM
    (Electronic
    > > Discharge Machine) used to cut metals and extrapolated it to 750
    > > volts. those machines are used at MUCH lower voltages.
    > >
    > > OK, that said, the sense wires will have 750 volts. so they need
    > to
    > > be separated.
    > >
    > > normally, I'd point out that the wire used to carry the load will
    > > have a voltage drop and you could get a reading, but still the
    > > voltage is too high.
    > >
    > > Putting a resistor near each pick-up might work to drop the
    sense
    > > line voltage so you never get high voltages near anything or each
    > > other, or ground.
    > >
    > > even bringing out the leads for a sensor is kinda scarry.
    > >
    > > But, my recommendation is to find another way.
    > >
    > > Dave
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-11-21 15:27
    The polarity will swing both ways depending on the situation. The
    voltage is connected directly to a resistor that is about 5KW, 1.4
    ohms. I found an easy, simple and safe method to do this. We just
    need to know when voltage is present so my meter has a peak hold on
    it and when there is voltage then the meter will beep.


    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "FalconWireless Tech Support -
    KF4HAZ" <techsupport@f...> wrote:
    >
    >
    From: "christopher41877" <CHRIS@
    > > Thanks for all of the replies, especially Al. This voltage is
    from
    > > an electric transit bus in California. Anyway, this is being
    done
    > > in a controlled environment and I won't even have to go near it
    when
    > > the power is on. Like I said, I know how to be safe around it
    just
    > > wasn't sure how to monitor it.
    >
    > A few more specifics please:
    > Is the current constant? Is it Known?
    > Is one side of the circuit grounded?
    > Are you looking for a simple on / off indication?
    > Or Do you need to know the amount of current flowing, or the
    voltage present?
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-11-21 17:33
    Current transformer it never touches the power goes around the leads or use
    a clip on amp meter.




    Original Message
    From: "christopher41877" <CHRIS@R...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: November 21, 2003 7:27 AM
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: High Voltage Interface


    : The polarity will swing both ways depending on the situation. The
    : voltage is connected directly to a resistor that is about 5KW, 1.4
    : ohms. I found an easy, simple and safe method to do this. We just
    : need to know when voltage is present so my meter has a peak hold on
    : it and when there is voltage then the meter will beep.
    :
    :
    : --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "FalconWireless Tech Support -
    : KF4HAZ" <techsupport@f...> wrote:
    : >
    : >
    From: "christopher41877" <CHRIS@
    : > > Thanks for all of the replies, especially Al. This voltage is
    : from
    : > > an electric transit bus in California. Anyway, this is being
    : done
    : > > in a controlled environment and I won't even have to go near it
    : when
    : > > the power is on. Like I said, I know how to be safe around it
    : just
    : > > wasn't sure how to monitor it.
    : >
    : > A few more specifics please:
    : > Is the current constant? Is it Known?
    : > Is one side of the circuit grounded?
    : > Are you looking for a simple on / off indication?
    : > Or Do you need to know the amount of current flowing, or the
    : voltage present?
    :
    :
    : To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    : basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    : from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    :
    :
    : Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    :
    :
    :
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-11-21 18:57
    You hit the nail right on the head.
    Most of the Stamp (or similar) users only deal with harmeless low
    voltage circuits. Do not realize the dangers of dealing with high
    energy systems.
    UL defines 32 volts as the limit between low energy and high energy
    systems.
    Some body sugested the use of a current transformer to sense current
    in a DC circuit. Are you kidding?.
    Galvanic isolation should be a safety concern.
    To sense currents in a relatively high voltage circuit, a Hall effect
    device is good alternative.
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-11-21 19:54
    I think the most straightforward and safe way to do this is a neon bulb with
    a proper dropping resistor (a known technology that easily works with a 700
    volt feed) pointing into a 6" length of black plastic pipe with a
    phototransistor on the other end. That would isolate you from anything short
    of a lightening strike. I would concur with the rest of the group that you
    don't want a direct electrical connection between a 700 volt supply and any
    low voltage circuitry. Too many things to go wrong with potential
    life-threatening results.

    BTW: I was very stupid in my youth while working on a tube guitar amp with a
    600-volt DC supply 30 years ago. My left hand was on the chassis and my
    right hand on the screwdriver which slipped and touched the power supply
    cap. Last thing I remember was my arm flying past my head and me flying into
    the corner as the blackness descended. I woke up what could have been a few
    seconds or few minutes later feeling like I had been kicked in the chest.
    Two important lessons from this... Always keep one hand in your pocket while
    working with any lethal voltages (yes, 120 Volts AC is lethal). This
    minimizes the chance of a hand-to-hand shock which can stop your heart. And
    secondly, never ever work by yourself on any high voltages. Always make sure
    someone else is close by that can dial 911, at least. A few lessons in CPR
    would be a good thing as well. I was EXTREMELY lucky, and could have been in
    fibrillation on the floor and then died. My unlucky parents would have found
    me dead the next day. I think about this every time I dive into a
    high-voltage
    circuit, which is probably what keep me from electrocuting myself over the
    following 30 years.

    Mike Sokol
    www.modernrecording.com
    mikes@m...

    " One should not increase, beyond what is necessary,
    the number of entities required to explain anything"...
    -William of Occam-


    Original Message
    From: "Albert Catano" <acatano2002@y...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 1:57 PM
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: High Voltage Interface


    > You hit the nail right on the head.
    > Most of the Stamp (or similar) users only deal with harmeless low
    > voltage circuits. Do not realize the dangers of dealing with high
    > energy systems.
    > UL defines 32 volts as the limit between low energy and high energy
    > systems.
    > Some body sugested the use of a current transformer to sense current
    > in a DC circuit. Are you kidding?.
    > Galvanic isolation should be a safety concern.
    > To sense currents in a relatively high voltage circuit, a Hall effect
    > device is good alternative.
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-11-21 20:07
    perhaps you could use an inductive coil near the device?

    On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, christopher41877 wrote:

    > Ok,
    >
    > Apparently I am not being specific enough for the group. I have a
    > device that works off of 750 VDC. I need to know when it is turned
    > on. What is the easiest way to do this?
    >
    > --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "aa7ej" <aa7ej@y...> wrote:
    > > --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, smartdim@a... wrote:
    > > > Chris,
    > > >
    > > > Please don't take this wrong.....but if you don't know the
    > answer
    > > to that
    > > > question, you probably should not be messing with a circuit that
    > > carries 750 VDC.
    > > > It can kill you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    > >
    > > AMEN!
    > > Sometimes the questions posted here are pretty broad or vague.
    > > This one should not be one of them!
    > > Either be very specific about your "interface" or do not even get
    > > within spitting distance of this project!
    > > Vaclav
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
    of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >

    Sean T. Lamont, CTO / Chief NetNerd, Abstract Software, Inc. (ServNet)
    Seattle - Bellingham - Vancouver - Portland - Everett - Tacoma - Bremerton
    email: lamont@a... WWW: http://www.serv.net
    "Do not fear mistakes, There Are None" - Miles Davis
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-11-21 20:36
    Some body suggested the use of a current transformer to sense current
    in a DC circuit. Are you kidding?.

    That would be me! guess I did not read the part about it being DC, thought
    he wanted it to be dc to read with his meter?

    So yea I was Kidding

    Larry


    Original Message
    From: "Albert Catano" <acatano2002@y...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: November 21, 2003 10:57 AM
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: High Voltage Interface


    : You hit the nail right on the head.
    : Most of the Stamp (or similar) users only deal with harmeless low
    : voltage circuits. Do not realize the dangers of dealing with high
    : energy systems.
    : UL defines 32 volts as the limit between low energy and high energy
    : systems.
    : Some body sugested the use of a current transformer to sense current
    : in a DC circuit. Are you kidding?.
    : Galvanic isolation should be a safety concern.
    : To sense currents in a relatively high voltage circuit, a Hall effect
    : device is good alternative.
    :
    :
    : To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    : basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    : from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    :
    :
    : Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    :
    :
    :
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-11-22 01:10
    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Albert Catano"
    <acatano2002@y...> wrote:
    > You hit the nail right on the head.
    > Most of the Stamp (or similar) users only deal with harmeless low
    > voltage circuits. Do not realize the dangers of dealing with high
    > energy systems.
    > UL defines 32 volts as the limit between low energy and high energy
    > systems.
    > Some body sugested the use of a current transformer to sense
    current
    > in a DC circuit. Are you kidding?.


    I think the CT's were offered for the AC, before it became DC,
    assuming of course, there is an AC line that feeds the Dc.

    Dave
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-11-22 01:17
    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Sokol" <mike.sokol@m...>
    wrote:
    > I think the most straightforward and safe way to do this is a neon
    bulb with
    > a proper dropping resistor (a known technology that easily works
    with a 700
    > volt feed) pointing into a 6" length of black plastic pipe with a
    > phototransistor on the other end. That would isolate you from
    anything short
    > of a lightening strike. I would concur with the rest of the group
    that you
    > don't want a direct electrical connection between a 700 volt supply
    and any
    > low voltage circuitry. Too many things to go wrong with potential
    > life-threatening results.
    >
    > BTW: I was very stupid in my youth while working on a tube guitar
    amp with a
    > 600-volt DC supply 30 years ago. My left hand was on the chassis
    and my
    > right hand on the screwdriver which slipped and touched the power
    supply
    > cap. Last thing I remember was my arm flying past my head and me
    flying into
    > the corner as the blackness descended. I woke up what could have
    been a few
    > seconds or few minutes later feeling like I had been kicked in the
    chest.
    > Two important lessons from this... Always keep one hand in your
    pocket while
    > working with any lethal voltages (yes, 120 Volts AC is lethal). This
    > minimizes the chance of a hand-to-hand shock which can stop your
    heart. And
    > secondly, never ever work by yourself on any high voltages. Always
    make sure
    > someone else is close by that can dial 911, at least. A few lessons
    in CPR
    > would be a good thing as well. I was EXTREMELY lucky, and could
    have been in
    > fibrillation on the floor and then died. My unlucky parents would
    have found
    > me dead the next day. I think about this every time I dive into a
    > high-voltage
    > circuit, which is probably what keep me from electrocuting myself
    over the
    > following 30 years.
    >
    > Mike Sokol
    > www.modernrecording.com
    > mikes@m...


    Interesting, anyone know what it takes to make a Jacobs ladder ?

    Not THAT would be a really COOOL ! circuit monitor.

    heck, you could monitor that with an AM radio from a long distance.

    Or a Tesla coil ?

    why be stuck with a boring meter display when you can have huge arcs ?

    and as a note, on high voltage stuff, a friend who worked for the
    power company told me he firmly plants his hand on the box and passes
    his thumb over the contacts before doing any work.

    if said that if the meter was faulty, he would rather suffer damage
    to one hand than have power pass thru his body.

    Guess, it was his final go/no-go test.

    And I think his idea was that BEFORE he risked his own hand, he darn
    well made sure everything was safe. I know I would !

    Dave
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-11-22 05:40
    Seems like this high voltage thread is WAY off track relative to the
    usual Stamp related, low-voltage, topics. I suggest dropping it.

    Dennis

    Original Message
    From: Dave Mucha [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=YHmgY7_XnV_LSDQitdrLCEysP_sTaWt0qN5adiwHOgAVwkNJqcGVbFbLR4OQeqhKOd_D7RarxrHz6kk]davemucha@j...[/url
    Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 5:18 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: High Voltage Interface


    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Sokol" <mike.sokol@m...>
    wrote:
    > I think the most straightforward and safe way to do this is a neon
    bulb with
    > a proper dropping resistor (a known technology that easily works
    with a 700
    > volt feed) pointing into a 6" length of black plastic pipe with a
    > phototransistor on the other end. That would isolate you from
    anything short
    > of a lightening strike. I would concur with the rest of the group
    that you
    > don't want a direct electrical connection between a 700 volt supply
    and any
    > low voltage circuitry. Too many things to go wrong with potential
    > life-threatening results.
    >
    > BTW: I was very stupid in my youth while working on a tube guitar
    amp with a
    > 600-volt DC supply 30 years ago. My left hand was on the chassis
    and my
    > right hand on the screwdriver which slipped and touched the power
    supply
    > cap. Last thing I remember was my arm flying past my head and me
    flying into
    > the corner as the blackness descended. I woke up what could have
    been a few
    > seconds or few minutes later feeling like I had been kicked in the
    chest.
    > Two important lessons from this... Always keep one hand in your
    pocket while
    > working with any lethal voltages (yes, 120 Volts AC is lethal). This
    > minimizes the chance of a hand-to-hand shock which can stop your
    heart. And
    > secondly, never ever work by yourself on any high voltages. Always
    make sure
    > someone else is close by that can dial 911, at least. A few lessons
    in CPR
    > would be a good thing as well. I was EXTREMELY lucky, and could
    have been in
    > fibrillation on the floor and then died. My unlucky parents would
    have found
    > me dead the next day. I think about this every time I dive into a
    > high-voltage circuit, which is probably what keep me from
    > electrocuting myself
    over the
    > following 30 years.
    >
    > Mike Sokol
    > www.modernrecording.com
    > mikes@m...


    Interesting, anyone know what it takes to make a Jacobs ladder ?

    Not THAT would be a really COOOL ! circuit monitor.

    heck, you could monitor that with an AM radio from a long distance.

    Or a Tesla coil ?

    why be stuck with a boring meter display when you can have huge arcs ?

    and as a note, on high voltage stuff, a friend who worked for the
    power company told me he firmly plants his hand on the box and passes
    his thumb over the contacts before doing any work.

    if said that if the meter was faulty, he would rather suffer damage
    to one hand than have power pass thru his body.

    Guess, it was his final go/no-go test.

    And I think his idea was that BEFORE he risked his own hand, he darn
    well made sure everything was safe. I know I would !

    Dave








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