Can you make your own BS2?
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Posts: 46,084
my question for today is simple... ive been reading on what type of
PIC the bs2 uses's and saw that it has a pic16c57c microchip.... and
i was thinking off the parallax website they ahve the scematics on
whats on the curface of a BS2 , and if u were to wire all the eeprom
and little commpoents needed to have ur own bs2 , would it still be
able to be programmed from the basic stamp 2 progammer??? im just
trying to get information on useing different pics.... the bs2 is
a "hefty" price for when u can buy just same pic or better for 4~ 5
bucks out of mousers catalog.... also ive seen that on other
different pics u need to have different software or something ..
i rather just be able to make my own clone of a bs2 with more eeprom
space and faster cpu but still be able use same commands/ programs u
would normaly use on the bs2...
can anyone help??
Sean....
PIC the bs2 uses's and saw that it has a pic16c57c microchip.... and
i was thinking off the parallax website they ahve the scematics on
whats on the curface of a BS2 , and if u were to wire all the eeprom
and little commpoents needed to have ur own bs2 , would it still be
able to be programmed from the basic stamp 2 progammer??? im just
trying to get information on useing different pics.... the bs2 is
a "hefty" price for when u can buy just same pic or better for 4~ 5
bucks out of mousers catalog.... also ive seen that on other
different pics u need to have different software or something ..
i rather just be able to make my own clone of a bs2 with more eeprom
space and faster cpu but still be able use same commands/ programs u
would normaly use on the bs2...
can anyone help??
Sean....
Comments
into it. It would have no idea how to load files, run programs, etc.
On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:43:22 +0000, djrevolution99 wrote:
>·my question for today is simple... ive been reading on what type of
>·PIC the bs2 uses's and saw that it has a pic16c57c microchip....
>·and i was thinking off the parallax website they ahve the scematics
>·on whats on the curface of a BS2 , and if u were to wire all the
>·eeprom and little commpoents needed to have ur own bs2 , would it
>·still be able to be programmed from the basic stamp 2 progammer???
>·im just trying to get information on useing different pics.... the
>·bs2 is a "hefty" price for when u can buy just same pic or better
>·for 4~ 5 bucks out of mousers catalog.... ·also ive seen that on
>·other different pics u need to have different software or something
>·..
>
>
>·i rather just be able to make my own clone of a bs2 with more
>·eeprom space and faster cpu but still be able use same commands/
>·programs u would normaly use on the bs2...
>
>·can anyone help??
>
>
>·Sean....
>
>
>·To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
>·basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>·from the same email address that you subscribed. ·Text in the
>·Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
>·Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>·http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
programmer that works with the chip you are using, as well as software
to use it with. The best site to find cheap programmers is
www.sparkfun.com (they have one for 6.95 for the PIC18F chips!)
That being said, a lot what you're paying for when you buy a BASIC Stamp
is the interpreter code on the PIC. This pulls the "tokens" (codes that
stand for BASIC instructions) out of EEPROM and executes them. Many
people have written code to imitate the Stamp interpreter, so it is
possible to burn your own Stamp which will work with the standard
software. There's even one called the BS-1/4 which emulates a BASIC
Stamp 1 on a single chip with no external memory (very handy for small,
simple projects) and just uses the PIC's internal EEPROM and RAM.
But when you think about how much work it takes to make your own, as
well as the cost of the programmer, chips, etc. it's often not worth it.
Also, if you've bought a PIC programmer, that sort-of defeats the
purpose of the Stamp and you might as well just get a BASIC compiler for
the PIC (that's one advantage of PIC's -- you can use just about any
language you want!).
Overall, if you are looking for ease of use and programming, go with a
stock BS2-series. This is how I started out and I highly recommend it.
If you feel like you want something faster, cheaper, or more efficient,
there's not really much point in trying to burn your own Stamp; you
might as well just get yourself a good PIC-BASIC compiler and write your
programs straight to the PIC's.
73 de Greg KG6SGY
On Tue, 2003-10-14 at 19:43, djrevolution99 wrote:
> my question for today is simple... ive been reading on what type of
> PIC the bs2 uses's and saw that it has a pic16c57c microchip.... and
> i was thinking off the parallax website they ahve the scematics on
> whats on the curface of a BS2 , and if u were to wire all the eeprom
> and little commpoents needed to have ur own bs2 , would it still be
> able to be programmed from the basic stamp 2 progammer??? im just
> trying to get information on useing different pics.... the bs2 is
> a "hefty" price for when u can buy just same pic or better for 4~ 5
> bucks out of mousers catalog.... also ive seen that on other
> different pics u need to have different software or something ..
>
>
> i rather just be able to make my own clone of a bs2 with more eeprom
> space and faster cpu but still be able use same commands/ programs u
> would normaly use on the bs2...
>
> can anyone help??
>
> Sean....
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
<djrevolution99@y...> wrote:
> my question for today is simple... ive been reading on what type of
> PIC the bs2 uses's and saw that it has a pic16c57c microchip....
and
> i was thinking off the parallax website they ahve the scematics on
> whats on the curface of a BS2 , and if u were to wire all the
eeprom
> and little commpoents needed to have ur own bs2 , would it still be
> able to be programmed from the basic stamp 2 progammer??? im just
> trying to get information on useing different pics.... the bs2 is
> a "hefty" price for when u can buy just same pic or better for 4~ 5
> bucks out of mousers catalog.... also ive seen that on other
> different pics u need to have different software or something ..
>
>
> i rather just be able to make my own clone of a bs2 with more
eeprom
> space and faster cpu but still be able use same commands/ programs
u
> would normaly use on the bs2...
>
> can anyone help??
>
> Sean....
For that 'hefty' price, you get free software, and a bountyful
resource of well documented and proven designs.
Plus, you get this support list and parallax support.
down load the manual, the stamps in class stuff, the industrial stuff
and all that and see if you feel all that is worth the price.
on the other hand, you can buy just the pre-programed chip and still
roll your own board with ADC chips, mutiplexing I's and O's and get
one powerful motherboard for little more than the cost of the parts
and a small charge for the pre-programming of the chip.
Figure the difference between the pre-programmed chip and the Mouser
part and see if you can program for that cost.
remember you would need to buy or build a pic programmer.
lay out a spreadsheet and figure the costs, i'm not sure if it's 30
or 75 units is where you break even with purchasing software and a
programmer to program the chip.
Another way to look at it is to call your local community college and
local trade schools and see what they want for a semister. compare
that to the cost of a Stamp.
and I would wager your Stamp and home schooling will yield far
greater results.
On the flip side, if you feel the need to break out of the mold,
learn C or ASM and program a PIC directly. Much lower cost and a
faster chip and a LOT more chip choices.
Is Parallax getting rich ? sure, and BECAUSE of that, they can offer
FREE manuals and FREE software and FREE schematics and they can hire
real talent ! and they do, and we all benefit !
Dave
(checks or paypal can be sent directly to my account)
davemucha@j... writes:
On the flip side, if you feel the need to break out of the mold,
learn C or ASM and program a PIC directly. Much lower cost and a
faster chip and a LOT more chip choices.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
I never used a PIC, but through school got introduced to the SX sold through
Parallax, and have been hooked since.
The SX sold through Parallax is lighting fast. IC & resonator less than $10.
But........to debug you need an SX key ($180 one time investment) and must
program in assembly. Using the SX I can do anything the Basic stamp can do, and
do it faster with the SX......but at a very, very, very hefty price, TIME.
The Basic stamp is so easy to use it is sick, really sick. For example, the
shift out command with the basic stamp is one very simple line of code, and
takes someone literally 20 minutes or less to hook up four of the 74hc595's and
shift out data. To do the same thing with the SX took me an entire weekend to
make the code work with the same 74HC595's.
If you plan to stick with this uController thing for the long haul, or intend
to sell several fuel injection units to your go-cart brethren, then the time
up front to make the program work may well be worth the initial investment of
your time to get the Program working.
Dave also mentioned "For that 'hefty' price, you get free software, and a
bountyful
Resource of well documented and proven designs. Plus, you get this support
list and parallax support." which cannot be overlooked. There is a yahoo group
for the SX just like this group, but not nearly as many posts.
So in my opinion, it comes down to time versus convenience.
[noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
space and faster cpu but still be able use same commands/ programs u
would normaly use on the bs2..."
Then you will want to look at MELabs PICBasic Pro. All the
porgramming ease of the BS2 but on a PIC.
www.melabs.com
There are some differences but those can be overcome.
Here is the kicker.........
PicBasic Pro
$250
EPIC Programmer----$99
LAB-X1
$140
Experimenting With the
PicBasic Pro
$40
Total cost
$530
To program a $5 PIC with the ease of PBASIC.
I still use stamps to prototype circuits cause they always work!!
When I have a working circuit and code, then I port to the PIC with
PICBasic Pro and unleash the speed of the PIC and cost savings. If I
had to buy a BS2p40 for all of the widgets I have made over the past
2 years I would have spent over $1500 just for the stamps. I have
saved money but I had to spend money to save money : )
If you only make 1 ot 2 widgets a year then stick with the stamp as
it will take you many years to see a return on your investment. And
with the infrequent use you will forget things like tieing MCLR high
on the PIC and wondering why it doesn't work for 2 days before you
figure it out. : (
Jason
programmer and BASCOM though. And don't count on 10% of the resources
and support Parallax offers.
> "i rather just be able to make my own clone of a bs2 with more eeprom
> space and faster cpu but still be able use same commands/ programs u
> would normaly use on the bs2..."
>
>
> Then you will want to look at MELabs PICBasic Pro. All the
> porgramming ease of the BS2 but on a PIC.
>
> www.melabs.com
>
> There are some differences but those can be overcome.
>
> Here is the kicker.........
>
> PicBasic Pro
$250
> EPIC Programmer----$99
> LAB-X1
$140
> Experimenting With the
> PicBasic Pro
$40
>
> Total cost
$530
>
> To program a $5 PIC with the ease of PBASIC.
>
> I still use stamps to prototype circuits cause they always work!!
>
> When I have a working circuit and code, then I port to the PIC with
> PICBasic Pro and unleash the speed of the PIC and cost savings. If I
> had to buy a BS2p40 for all of the widgets I have made over the past
> 2 years I would have spent over $1500 just for the stamps. I have
> saved money but I had to spend money to save money : )
>
> If you only make 1 ot 2 widgets a year then stick with the stamp as
> it will take you many years to see a return on your investment. And
> with the infrequent use you will forget things like tieing MCLR high
> on the PIC and wondering why it doesn't work for 2 days before you
> figure it out. : (
Well, yes, I can. Certainly. But the people at Parallax have already spent
several years of work to do that. Why would I want to roll my own?
Oh. Did you mean, could I show YOU how to avoid paying them for their work?
Yes, but I won't. And if I did, I'd charge a whole lot more than the cost of
a Stamp just to answer one of your questions on this list, let alone all the
questions answered for all of us.
Basically, if you have to ask how you'd go about using raw components
instead of the finished product, then you aren't competent to use raw
components. So stick with paying for someone else's competence.
Maybe I'm just a little cranky because I'm not feeling well today, but
personally I find it offensive that you would ask this on a list sponsored
by the company you're trying to rip off. Just my personal feeling...
Gary
The basic stamp is a singular beast. Its not for every person or every
purpose. The Stamp fills a niche in the microcontroller market that other
microcontrollers dont. That niche is ease of use combined with a wealth of
(free) information and easily accessable support.
I use AVR microcontrollers mostly, but I still have my stamps kicking
around. Whenever I want to learn something new, I try it on the stamp first.
In most cases I can find something, somewhere on the net, that already deals
with what I'm trying to learn - but only on the stamp.
I don't understand why you'd want to go through the hassle of making your
own stamps. If you're capable of doing something like that, just move on to
a different microcontroller. Atmel AVRs are easy to get into. You can make
your own programmer with a few resistors and a parallel cable. Buy Bascom
Basic or one of the C,C++,C# compilers and Bob's your uncle. Chips range
from $2 to $20 retail. Programmer (roll your own) costs a couple dollars.
The language of your choice will add anywhere from $100 to $500 up front.
Cash wise, the switch to AVRs or Pics (or whatever) is a good one. The real
price is in complexity. Stamps are a breeze to learn and use, AVRs and PICs
are orders of magnitude more complex. Definetly not impossible (hell, I'm
doing ok on AVRs and if I can, most others probably can too - it just takes
a looooong time learning).
>
Original Message
> From: Greg Courville [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=aKvui3KLfYFB8hMkIEgPkqUoke5ioOA8rYsIVDGERRGG6JaU--hqGNNe1MVeeHdK1LJvRr5Mg65_46pPv5-tRopc]KG6SGY@G...[/url
> Sent: October 14, 2003 8:39 PM
> To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Can you make your own BS2?
>
>
> In any case, if you want to do anything with a a PIC, you'll need a
> programmer that works with the chip you are using, as well as software
> to use it with. The best site to find cheap programmers is
> www.sparkfun.com (they have one for 6.95 for the PIC18F chips!)
>
> That being said, a lot what you're paying for when you buy a BASIC Stamp
> is the interpreter code on the PIC. This pulls the "tokens" (codes that
> stand for BASIC instructions) out of EEPROM and executes them. Many
> people have written code to imitate the Stamp interpreter, so it is
> possible to burn your own Stamp which will work with the standard
> software. There's even one called the BS-1/4 which emulates a BASIC
> Stamp 1 on a single chip with no external memory (very handy for small,
> simple projects) and just uses the PIC's internal EEPROM and RAM.
> But when you think about how much work it takes to make your own, as
> well as the cost of the programmer, chips, etc. it's often not worth it.
> Also, if you've bought a PIC programmer, that sort-of defeats the
> purpose of the Stamp and you might as well just get a BASIC compiler for
> the PIC (that's one advantage of PIC's -- you can use just about any
> language you want!).
>
> Overall, if you are looking for ease of use and programming, go with a
> stock BS2-series. This is how I started out and I highly recommend it.
> If you feel like you want something faster, cheaper, or more efficient,
> there's not really much point in trying to burn your own Stamp; you
> might as well just get yourself a good PIC-BASIC compiler and write your
> programs straight to the PIC's.
>
be programmable from the parallax's software. The BS2 uses a interpreter
program that fetches the tokens from the EEPROM then executes them.
Parallax understandably keeps this firmware for the PIC and SX based basic
stamps under lock and key. Parallax does however sell preprogrammed PICs on
their site, but you still won't be able to change the EEPROM size and
changing the clock would certainly create problems. If you really want to
swap over to PICs then I suggest you get the programming hardware and a copy
of PIC Basic Pro, but keep in mind it still won't be identical to PBasic.
Chris Shuster
Original Message
From: "djrevolution99" <djrevolution99@y...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 8:43 PM
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Can you make your own BS2?
> my question for today is simple... ive been reading on what type of
> PIC the bs2 uses's and saw that it has a pic16c57c microchip.... and
> i was thinking off the parallax website they ahve the scematics on
> whats on the curface of a BS2 , and if u were to wire all the eeprom
> and little commpoents needed to have ur own bs2 , would it still be
> able to be programmed from the basic stamp 2 progammer??? im just
> trying to get information on useing different pics.... the bs2 is
> a "hefty" price for when u can buy just same pic or better for 4~ 5
> bucks out of mousers catalog.... also ive seen that on other
> different pics u need to have different software or something ..
>
>
> i rather just be able to make my own clone of a bs2 with more eeprom
> space and faster cpu but still be able use same commands/ programs u
> would normaly use on the bs2...
>
> can anyone help??
>
> Sean....
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Many thanks!!!!!
Original Message
From: Dave Mucha [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=dsjpbZqZvyM7ABXZSSgTZju6LyvVvk4y0WgG2B4H5o_YVeWQVDtTUrSgzN55KJtm4_Sp2kmC99wOmME]davemucha@j...[/url
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 11:41 AM
To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Can you make your own BS2?
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Williams" <jwilliams@p...>
wrote:
> I can assure you that NOBODY at Parallax is getting rich. We lost
four
> employees this year and a few even took pay cuts. The cost of
providing
> materials, downloads, phone support is not free; we do it because we
> feel it is the right thing to do.
>
> -- Jon Williams
> -- Applications Engineer, Parallax
> -- Dallas Office