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Best way to get 4 temp measurements — Parallax Forums

Best way to get 4 temp measurements

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2003-10-09 21:07 in General Discussion
I want to measure some temperatures under the hood. I have read a
lot about the OW stuff and even found an obscure reference on
multiplexing sensors. I want to pick everyones brain and find out
what you have done. Note that I didn't say "inside the engine" ie
combustions temps, I am mostly interest in intake and ambient air
temps in various locations.

Thanks a bit

KK

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-10-09 17:43
    In a message dated 10/9/2003 12:40:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
    kaptnknemo@y... writes:


    > I want to measure some temperatures under the hood. I have read a
    > lot about the OW stuff and even found an obscure reference on
    > multiplexing sensors. I want to pick everyones brain and find out
    > what you have done. Note that I didn't say "inside the engine" ie
    > combustions temps, I am mostly interest in intake and ambient air
    > temps in various locations.
    >

    What is the highest temperature you would anticipate?

    Sid


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-10-09 17:51
    KK,

    A cheap and easy way to do it is with LM34 sensors and an ADC. This would
    only use 2 I/O pins from the stamp, and will be quite accurate. Get an ADC
    with a bunch of inputs, and you will have left over ADC for stuff you think
    of later. I like the TLC2543.

    You could go even cheaper and use thermistors and the POT command, but it
    will be less accurate. With all of the noise under a hood, I don't know if I
    would go with digital sensors. Mind you, I have never done it, so maybe they
    work quite well.

    Jonathan

    www.madlabs.info



    Original Message
    From: "Matt Evans" <kaptnknemo@y...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:32 AM
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Best way to get 4 temp measurements


    > I want to measure some temperatures under the hood. I have read a
    > lot about the OW stuff and even found an obscure reference on
    > multiplexing sensors. I want to pick everyones brain and find out
    > what you have done. Note that I didn't say "inside the engine" ie
    > combustions temps, I am mostly interest in intake and ambient air
    > temps in various locations.
    >
    > Thanks a bit
    >
    > KK
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-10-09 18:04
    Hi KK,

    You could optimize my wine thermometer for ambient temperatures, I guess. It
    needs only a BS2 and a couple of small and inexpensive sensors. For what I
    have seen from digital thermometers (error +/- 1 or 2 degrees) this one will
    be far more accurate.

    Klaus

    Hi,

    I'm develloping a fast and accurate thermometer with the BS2 to meaure the
    temperature of (good) wine. The sensor is a miniture NTC as used in fever
    thermometers.

    The resistance and the slope of the nearly exponential curve of the sensor
    are specified in in 5-degree intervals by the manufacturer. I.e. 100 kOhm
    and 4.7 kOhm/degree at 20 degree C.

    I develloped an aproximation by 4 straight lines over 5-degree intervals.
    The intervals are: below 12.5C, between 12.5C and 17.5C, between 17.5C and
    22.5C and above 22.5C. For a thermometer for wine this makes sense to me.

    The result is a very fast responding (2 seconds for a full reading) and
    fairly accurate (error ca. 0.2C absolute) measuring instrument.

    If I had done this using LOOKUP, as I planned first, I would have ended up
    with a table of about 200 elements for this acuracy and resolution. The
    NO-GO for this table was when I realised that if small corrections would
    have to be made in a later stage of calibrating the system I would have to
    work over the entire table, or mess up my code.

    The code and the formulas I used are listed below.

    Next thing to do is write the code for a display and fix the decimal point
    :-).

    Klaus

    '///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    ///
    ' Ts = Cx - RT/Cy Ts: Temperature of sensor * 10
    ' RT: output of RCTIME
    ' Cx = T_cal + R_cal/(dR/dT)_cal cal: 10,15,20,25 degree C
    ' Cy = K*(dR/dT)_cal (dR/dT): slope of curve
    ' K = 29,57 K: system constant for BS2 and cap = 0.47 uF


    '{$STAMP BS2}

    OUTPUT 15

    Ts VAR WORD
    RT VAR WORD


    Main:

    OUT15 = 1

    HIGH 12
    PAUSE 10
    RCTIME 12, 1, RT

    OUT15 = 0

    Ts = 479 - (RT/107)
    IF Ts>225 THEN Label1

    Ts = 420 - (RT/139)
    IF Ts>175 THEN Label1

    Ts = 367 - (RT/177)
    IF Ts>125 THEN Label1

    Ts = 306 - (RT/231)

    Label1:

    DEBUG CLS, DEC Ts, " RT= ", DEC RT

    PAUSE 440

    GOTO Main


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    Oorspronkelijk bericht
    Van: Matt Evans [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=y7Jvcihp_VylZEh1RoH3WDhvua8JjRtGlqPcEnRxJ6hVHlvq5pHwLVKWgEhstg-4XRbaVCYzj1g5AaD1]kaptnknemo@y...[/url
    Verzonden: donderdag 9 oktober 2003 17:32
    Aan: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Onderwerp: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Best way to get 4 temp measurements


    I want to measure some temperatures under the hood. I have read a
    lot about the OW stuff and even found an obscure reference on
    multiplexing sensors. I want to pick everyones brain and find out
    what you have done. Note that I didn't say "inside the engine" ie
    combustions temps, I am mostly interest in intake and ambient air
    temps in various locations.

    Thanks a bit

    KK


    To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.


    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-10-09 18:15
    I looking at the LM32DZ (the cheapest one). Something that perplexes me -
    its range is 32F to err, forget now.. Its output is 10mV/degree F. Does that
    mean it puts out 0mV at 32F and you have to add 32 to the reading? The other
    flavours of the LM34 go much lower, -35 or something. The datasheet is mum
    about how to convert the mV reading to degrees. I would assume it means 32mV
    at 32F and anything below that is unreliable (otherwise why not a rating
    starting at zero?).

    Any clues?


    >
    Original Message
    > From: Jonathan Peakall [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=6YZh5AQwiXq4fwcBpo6xAf_Ch_BhwKIlmXd3lpZqlzU4_Nf9Y9tCV6jPzU--hjQMXkgnRt-dMkCLusR_sw]jpeakall@m...[/url
    > Sent: October 9, 2003 9:52 AM
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Best way to get 4 temp measurements
    >
    >
    > KK,
    >
    > A cheap and easy way to do it is with LM34 sensors and an ADC. This would
    > only use 2 I/O pins from the stamp, and will be quite accurate. Get an ADC
    > with a bunch of inputs, and you will have left over ADC for stuff
    > you think
    > of later. I like the TLC2543.
    >
    > You could go even cheaper and use thermistors and the POT command, but it
    > will be less accurate. With all of the noise under a hood, I
    > don't know if I
    > would go with digital sensors. Mind you, I have never done it, so
    > maybe they
    > work quite well.
    >
    > Jonathan
    >
    > www.madlabs.info
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-10-09 18:37
    Actually, I just recalled that the industrial control text uses an LM34 so I
    looked it up. It does indeed just use direct readings i.e. .753 volts is
    75.3F.
    Hmm, wonder why they don't just rate it for 0-300...


    >
    Original Message
    > From: PatM [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=vFz6YKEOyzo9vi_eh3xBem05LW22bFmIDpBRDypcyuCLzSDWrnyWssrF-BjLmxwhtY_tOC2QoAZq]pmeloy@s...[/url
    > Sent: October 9, 2003 10:15 AM
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Best way to get 4 temp measurements
    >
    >
    > I looking at the LM32DZ (the cheapest one). Something that perplexes me -
    > its range is 32F to err, forget now.. Its output is 10mV/degree
    > F. Does that
    > mean it puts out 0mV at 32F and you have to add 32 to the
    > reading? The other
    > flavours of the LM34 go much lower, -35 or something. The datasheet is mum
    > about how to convert the mV reading to degrees. I would assume it
    > means 32mV
    > at 32F and anything below that is unreliable (otherwise why not a rating
    > starting at zero?).
    >
    > Any clues?
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
    > Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-10-09 18:49
    Check out MAX6674/6675 from Maxim. They are thermalcouple to digital
    converters that are fully compensated. Maxim will sample 2 at a time
    for free.

    I have used these and are fairly accurate at +- 2 C and can handle
    temps up to 1000 C with the MAX6675.

    You will need to use K type thermal couple wire which is available
    from Digikey.

    Jason


    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, PatM <pmeloy@s...> wrote:
    > Actually, I just recalled that the industrial control text uses an
    LM34 so I
    > looked it up. It does indeed just use direct readings i.e. .753
    volts is
    > 75.3F.
    > Hmm, wonder why they don't just rate it for 0-300...
    >
    >
    > >
    Original Message
    > > From: PatM [noparse][[/noparse]mailto[noparse]:p[/noparse]meloy@s...]
    > > Sent: October 9, 2003 10:15 AM
    > > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > > Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Best way to get 4 temp measurements
    > >
    > >
    > > I looking at the LM32DZ (the cheapest one). Something that
    perplexes me -
    > > its range is 32F to err, forget now.. Its output is 10mV/degree
    > > F. Does that
    > > mean it puts out 0mV at 32F and you have to add 32 to the
    > > reading? The other
    > > flavours of the LM34 go much lower, -35 or something. The
    datasheet is mum
    > > about how to convert the mV reading to degrees. I would assume it
    > > means 32mV
    > > at 32F and anything below that is unreliable (otherwise why not a
    rating
    > > starting at zero?).
    > >
    > > Any clues?
    > >
    > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
    > > Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > >
    > >
    > >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-10-09 19:32
    The best way to do this is with a Dallas 1-wire, DS2760. If you have a BS2p
    this is very easy to do. Parallax has some code for I/C and C/A thermocouples.
    A small kit should be available soon.
    Chuck
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-10-09 20:20
    Hi Pat,

    The output of the LM34 at 32 degrees Fahrenheit is 320 millivolts.
    All of the LM34 grades have the same equation. degF = millivolts/10
    (+/- a fraction of a degree to 3 degrees for accuracy spec, depending
    on the grade and the individual unit)

    Look at the "specified operating temperature range" on the data
    sheet for the different grades. The best grade, ($$) is speced from
    -50 to +300 F, the middle grade from -40 to +240 F, while the
    cheapest LM34DZ from +32 to +212. This has to do with the packaging
    and with the testing they do on the chip. You can use the lower
    grade beyond their rated temperature range, and they will follow the
    same equation, but the accuracy is not guaranteed. And the plastic
    package may fail at extremes.

    To reach the negative temperatures, you need a resistor connected
    from the output down to a negative power supply. Then the output at
    -20 degrees F will be -200 millivolts. You need a system that can
    read that. One nice thing about the LM34 is that it can read down to
    nearly 0 degrees F on a single supply, well below freezing.

    Another option is the AD590 temperature sensor. Or for high
    temperatures, thermocouples with the MAX6674 or MAX6675.

    Here is some more temperature sensor/stamp info:
    <http://www.emesystems.com/BS2index.htm#interface>

    -- best regards
    Tracy Allen
    electronically monitored ecosystems
    http://www.emesystems.com
    mailto:tracy@e...




    >I looking at the LM32DZ (the cheapest one). Something that perplexes me -
    >its range is 32F to err, forget now.. Its output is 10mV/degree F. Does that
    >mean it puts out 0mV at 32F and you have to add 32 to the reading? The other
    >flavours of the LM34 go much lower, -35 or something. The datasheet is mum
    >about how to convert the mV reading to degrees. I would assume it means 32mV
    >at 32F and anything below that is unreliable (otherwise why not a rating
    >starting at zero?).
    >
    >Any clues?
    >
    >
    >>
    Original Message
    >> From: Jonathan Peakall [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=q_sJwzEkckabb3dGzQfv1wGpDDmlRUofEQG92UOj-mZiMCyzlogXuehhIfoxfhliZ_1kPCr_xBhpixgY]jpeakall@m...[/url
    >> Sent: October 9, 2003 9:52 AM
    >> To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    >> Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Best way to get 4 temp measurements
    >>
    >>
    >> KK,
    >>
    >> A cheap and easy way to do it is with LM34 sensors and an ADC. This would
    >> only use 2 I/O pins from the stamp, and will be quite accurate. Get an ADC
    >> with a bunch of inputs, and you will have left over ADC for stuff
    >> you think
    >> of later. I like the TLC2543.
    >>
    >> You could go even cheaper and use thermistors and the POT command, but it
    >> will be less accurate. With all of the noise under a hood, I
    >> don't know if I
    >> would go with digital sensors. Mind you, I have never done it, so
    > > maybe they
    > > work quite well.
    > >
    > > Jonathan
    > >
    > > www.madlabs.info
    > >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-10-09 21:07
    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Evans" <kaptnknemo@y...>
    wrote:
    > I want to measure some temperatures under the hood. I have read a
    > lot about the OW stuff and even found an obscure reference on
    > multiplexing sensors. I want to pick everyones brain and find out
    > what you have done. Note that I didn't say "inside the engine" ie
    > combustions temps, I am mostly interest in intake and ambient air
    > temps in various locations.
    >
    > Thanks a bit
    >
    > KK

    look at DS1822 I just posted
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