New guy looking for a quick fix
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Posts: 46,084
Well, I'm looking to control a large boiler. Basically I want a
temperature reading circuit and the based on the temperature, switch
a 240V 20AMP element on. I'm new to electronics, but I understand
how the basic stamp works ie. I do some programming. any suggestions?
temperature reading circuit and the based on the temperature, switch
a 240V 20AMP element on. I'm new to electronics, but I understand
how the basic stamp works ie. I do some programming. any suggestions?
Comments
What you want to do is easy, and a BS1 would be more than capable for the
job. With an LM34, you can easily make an in-line water temp. sensor, and
use the RCTIME command to determine the temperature. A relay would be used
to switch the 240V element on and off.
Jonathan
www.madlabs.info
Original Message
From: "jjlwork" <jjlwork@y...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 11:00 PM
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] New guy looking for a quick fix
> Well, I'm looking to control a large boiler. Basically I want a
> temperature reading circuit and the based on the temperature, switch
> a 240V 20AMP element on. I'm new to electronics, but I understand
> how the basic stamp works ie. I do some programming. any suggestions?
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
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boiler on too long, that leads to too much pressure, that leads to...
umm.. bang.
[noparse]:([/noparse]
The concept and implementation of this type of circuit is pretty straight
forward and a stamp circuit is well suited. Frankly, I'd *much* rather
have the stamp watching a possibly dangerous process than have a Windows
box with some code doing the same thing (could lead to a new definition
of MSBlaster!!) [noparse];)[/noparse]
However, I would want to make DANG sure the code was working properly
before I used it on a boiler that could do *real* damage if it became
over-pressured. Maybe a fail-safe implementation i.e. any anomalous state
leads to boiler power OFF. Just my $0.02. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Vern
--
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services | paying you? Of course, if the network
vern@t... www.txis.com | is up, then we obviously don't need
Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG
jjlwork said:
> Well, I'm looking to control a large boiler. Basically I want a
> temperature reading circuit and the based on the temperature, switch
> a 240V 20AMP element on. I'm new to electronics, but I understand
> how the basic stamp works ie. I do some programming. any suggestions?
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
> Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
You bet. I would keep the original overheat shut off and overflow valves in
place for sure.
Jonathan
www.madlabs.info
Original Message
From: "Vernon Graner" <vern@t...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] New guy looking for a quick fix
> Hmm.. this sounds a little scary. A mistake in code that keeps the
> boiler on too long, that leads to too much pressure, that leads to...
> umm.. bang.
>
> [noparse]:([/noparse]
>
> The concept and implementation of this type of circuit is pretty straight
> forward and a stamp circuit is well suited. Frankly, I'd *much* rather
> have the stamp watching a possibly dangerous process than have a Windows
> box with some code doing the same thing (could lead to a new definition
> of MSBlaster!!) [noparse];)[/noparse]
>
> However, I would want to make DANG sure the code was working properly
> before I used it on a boiler that could do *real* damage if it became
> over-pressured. Maybe a fail-safe implementation i.e. any anomalous state
> leads to boiler power OFF. Just my $0.02. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
>
> Vern
>
> --
> Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE | "If the network is down, then you're
> Senior Systems Engineer | obviously incompetent so why are we
> Texas Information Services | paying you? Of course, if the network
> vern@t... www.txis.com | is up, then we obviously don't need
> Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG
>
>
>
> jjlwork said:
> > Well, I'm looking to control a large boiler. Basically I want a
> > temperature reading circuit and the based on the temperature, switch
> > a 240V 20AMP element on. I'm new to electronics, but I understand
> > how the basic stamp works ie. I do some programming. any suggestions?
> >
> >
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
and
> > Body of the message will be ignored.
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
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>
>
>
quite as dangerous as you might think.
Although electronics are in control of general operation, all boilers have
(by law) safety controls that keep things from blowing up. Typically,
automatic controls will cycle between two different temperature - high and
low operating setpoints. These can be virtually anything, from a Stamp to an
Aquastat. I've worked on Babcox and Wilcox ship-borne boilers (Destroyers -
550PSI Superheat), Vapour Clarkson auxiliary boilers (100psi saturated
steam), Fire tube and water tube LP boilers and hot water boilers (just big
versions of your home gas fired hot water heater). They all share common
safety devices.
1) High temperature limit controller - If the high operating setpoint is
surpassed, this shuts it down.
2) Low water sensor - run low on water and this shuts it down before you
start burning tubes
These two controls will override the operating controls.
3) Pressure relief valve - Vents excess pressure. This isn't typically
connected to the control system at all and will not shut down the boiler.
An awful lot of things have to fail in order for real damage to occur.
>
Original Message
> From: Vernon Graner [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=Rb0aEettFAzYjSM7fvfuiyQRsrFQo_Ku50jTZ64J8MBDYUKCm9cACuIMaPh44Q0OcfuVs7c]vern@t...[/url
> Sent: August 29, 2003 8:28 AM
> To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] New guy looking for a quick fix
>
>
> Hmm.. this sounds a little scary. A mistake in code that keeps the
> boiler on too long, that leads to too much pressure, that leads to...
> umm.. bang.
>
> [noparse]:([/noparse]
>
> The concept and implementation of this type of circuit is pretty straight
> forward and a stamp circuit is well suited. Frankly, I'd *much* rather
> have the stamp watching a possibly dangerous process than have a Windows
> box with some code doing the same thing (could lead to a new definition
> of MSBlaster!!) [noparse];)[/noparse]
>
> However, I would want to make DANG sure the code was working properly
> before I used it on a boiler that could do *real* damage if it became
> over-pressured. Maybe a fail-safe implementation i.e. any anomalous state
> leads to boiler power OFF. Just my $0.02. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
>
> Vern
>
> --
> Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE | "If the network is down, then you're
> Senior Systems Engineer | obviously incompetent so why are we
> Texas Information Services | paying you? Of course, if the network
> vern@t... www.txis.com | is up, then we obviously don't need
> Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG
>
>
>
> jjlwork said:
> > Well, I'm looking to control a large boiler. Basically I want a
> > temperature reading circuit and the based on the temperature, switch
> > a 240V 20AMP element on. I'm new to electronics, but I understand
> > how the basic stamp works ie. I do some programming. any suggestions?
> >
> >
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
> Subject and
> > Body of the message will be ignored.
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
> Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
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>
>
>
be played with; it would be a shame to have an explosion because of a
programming or hardware failure.
jim
http://www.geocities.com/jimforkin2003/
Original Message
From: jjlwork [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=X2W345q5GPUOHWYxKsZ-Y9UrxzVeW3GnLjzT755XTCewHm8v6HC57O8rnjcZ4nZNMfk_kZlr]jjlwork@y...[/url
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 2:01 AM
To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] New guy looking for a quick fix
Well, I'm looking to control a large boiler. Basically I want a
temperature reading circuit and the based on the temperature, switch
a 240V 20AMP element on. I'm new to electronics, but I understand
how the basic stamp works ie. I do some programming. any suggestions?
To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> Well, while I wholeheartedly agree with the cautionary statement,
its not
> quite as dangerous as you might think.
>
> Although electronics are in control of general operation, all
boilers have
> (by law) safety controls that keep things from blowing up.
Typically,
> automatic controls will cycle between two different temperature -
high and
> low operating setpoints. These can be virtually anything, from a
Stamp to an
> Aquastat. I've worked on Babcox and Wilcox ship-borne boilers
(Destroyers -
> 550PSI Superheat), Vapour Clarkson auxiliary boilers (100psi
saturated
> steam), Fire tube and water tube LP boilers and hot water boilers
(just big
> versions of your home gas fired hot water heater). They all share
common
> safety devices.
>
> 1) High temperature limit controller - If the high operating
setpoint is
> surpassed, this shuts it down.
> 2) Low water sensor - run low on water and this shuts it down
before you
> start burning tubes
>
> These two controls will override the operating controls.
>
> 3) Pressure relief valve - Vents excess pressure. This isn't
typically
> connected to the control system at all and will not shut down the
boiler.
>
> An awful lot of things have to fail in order for real damage to
occur.
You are correct, but about 99.9% of the stuff we do will self
destruct in a neat flash of light or puff of smoke.
boilers have all those safety controls from all the people who died
after a failure.
Enhancing a control of a boiler might offer energy savings, but in NJ
abnd PA, you must be liscensed to operate a boiler, and a liscensed
person must be on-site when the boiler is operating.
In my 25 years in HVAC, I have only heard of one boiler accident and
only one death.
My recomendation is to double check your controls and make sure they
do not superceed or override any other controls.
proceed, but with caution.
as far as sensors, use sensors approved for the application, they may
cost more, but the temperatures and pressuers involved will have been
proven on those devices.
Dave
http://www.savannahnow.com/stories/073101/LOCexplosap.shtml
>I personally do not think there is any
> chance of explosion! [noparse][[/noparse]snip] I'm making BEER!
Heh! Maybe just an explosaion in people willing to come and "help" with
your projects! [noparse]:D[/noparse]
"hmmm Lemme taste that.. nah I think we need to add a PAUSE 500 command
and retaste--- er... reTEST!" [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Vern
--
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services | paying you? Of course, if the network
vern@t... www.txis.com | is up, then we obviously don't need
Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG
expressed safety concerns, I personally do not think there is any
chance of explosion! Maybe I should elaborate more. I'm making BEER!
Basically I have to mash(steep) grains in water between 150F - 158F.
I'm using a modified 10 Gal stainless steel pot with a heating
element in it. I want to monitor the temperature of the mash and any
time it drops below 145F turn the element on or goes over 150 turn
the element off. I want to take it one step further as well, after
the grain has been steeping for an hour I want to turn a pump on and
open some sort of electric valve to transfer the liquid through a
filter to another pot with the same type of setup for boiling. I
want an alarm to sound at three diferent time intervals...these are
the intervals that I add hops to the boil add flavour. This is a
little more complicated than this but the rest are details.
Basically it would look something like this:
Process:
1) Heat water to 158F
2) when water reaches 158F start timer and hold temp between 150- 158
Start stiring arm moptor.
3) After 1 hour open drain valve and start pump
4)check to see if tank is empty every second if it is shut of the
pump and start element #2
5) bring water to boil(temp TBD) and start timer
6) at 3 diferent (TBD) intervals sound alarm for adding hops
7) After 1 hour start pump#2 and open Drain#2 to fill fermentor(Same
as before)
8) Stop
maybe I could put another process so that if a maximum mash
temperature or boiling temperature is reached then an alrm will
sound.
"people who make beer" and "people who drink beer"
...and then there are those who "drink and make beer"
I wonder what the threshold level is before too much drinking
causes the beer not to be made - grin
Can we set this test up with a Stamp?
-Beau Schwabe (why not it's Friday!! - I love to program Drunk!!)
>jjlwork said:
> >I personally do not think there is any
> > chance of explosion! [noparse][[/noparse]snip] I'm making BEER!
>
>Heh! Maybe just an explosaion in people willing to come and "help" with
>your projects! [noparse]:D[/noparse]
>
>"hmmm Lemme taste that.. nah I think we need to add a PAUSE 500 command
>and retaste--- er... reTEST!" [noparse]:)[/noparse]
>
>Vern
>
>--
>Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE | "If the network is down, then you're
>Senior Systems Engineer | obviously incompetent so why are we
>Texas Information Services | paying you? Of course, if the network
>vern@t... www.txis.com | is up, then we obviously don't need
>Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG
Original Message
> From: Dave Mucha [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=LPVfQKP3qzc9CNunYvsl2Wkq8mf4oG684GiWzpj9UiryZJj7Xg1hvcVLyAVKePvradBWguBJT3Sx]davemucha@j...[/url
> Sent: August 29, 2003 10:01 AM
> To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: New guy looking for a quick fix
>
> boilers have all those safety controls from all the people who died
> after a failure.
Which is where most regulation originate - sad to say.
> Enhancing a control of a boiler might offer energy savings, but in NJ
> abnd PA, you must be liscensed to operate a boiler, and a liscensed
> person must be on-site when the boiler is operating.
Yep, I'm one of them - basically every jurisdiction has similar rules.
Though the coverage required is determined by heating surface and/or
pressure of the unit. Here in British columbia they have to be fairly large
to require an operator on site. In the 11 recreation centres we have, not
one of the boilers requires an operator. Doing actual work on them usually
requires a gas ticket and/or electrical ticket depending on what you're
doing. If you alter them in any way you automatically terminate your licence
to operate the unit and must have an inspector re-evaluate the unit before
operating it again. Usually you'd contact the inspector and discuss the
alteration long before doing anything - to get their go-ahead.
Haven't seen a boiler accident yet. Been at it 23 years myself.
are no air tight lids, the potential for accident id if I get a boil
over...could be an electrifying experience! However I can implemnt
some safety circuits.
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, PatM <pmeloy@s...> wrote:
>
> >
Original Message
> > From: Dave Mucha [noparse][[/noparse]mailto:davemucha@j...]
> > Sent: August 29, 2003 10:01 AM
> > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: New guy looking for a quick fix
> >
> > boilers have all those safety controls from all the people who
died
> > after a failure.
>
> Which is where most regulation originate - sad to say.
>
> > Enhancing a control of a boiler might offer energy savings, but
in NJ
> > abnd PA, you must be liscensed to operate a boiler, and a
liscensed
> > person must be on-site when the boiler is operating.
>
> Yep, I'm one of them - basically every jurisdiction has
similar rules.
> Though the coverage required is determined by heating surface
and/or
> pressure of the unit. Here in British columbia they have to be
fairly large
> to require an operator on site. In the 11 recreation centres we
have, not
> one of the boilers requires an operator. Doing actual work on them
usually
> requires a gas ticket and/or electrical ticket depending on what
you're
> doing. If you alter them in any way you automatically terminate
your licence
> to operate the unit and must have an inspector re-evaluate the
unit before
> operating it again. Usually you'd contact the inspector and
discuss the
> alteration long before doing anything - to get their go-ahead.
>
>
> Haven't seen a boiler accident yet. Been at it 23 years myself.
Aha, you are making a beer machine! I myself have made a RIMS, but it was
before I used Stamps, so it has a PID controller. It is a 10 gallon,
auto-sparging and has a built in counter flow chiller. A pump circulates the
wort and heats it as it passes by an electric element. This also uses the
grain bed as a filter, so my beer is super clear. The mash tun is a Sanky
keg with the top cut open. It has 2 inches of insulation, and is covered
with sheet metal. It isn't exactly what I would make if I was to do it
again, but it works really well.
Contact me off-list if you want, there are lots of issues, like: Is it worth
it to have a stirrer? I get great extraction without one, and it makes for
other issues. For example, it makes it harder to insulate the top, and it
disturbs the grain bed. This means longer circulation times to get decent
clarity, and if you are doing that by hand, ugh. If you are using a false
bottom, it can make a "stuck" mash. Also, with an electric element in direct
contact with the wort, carmalization occurs, which results in color change
and the production of un-fermentables. So the less you have to run the
heater the better, unless you are making dark beers, in which case it can be
good. With proper insulation very little heating is required.
What size batches are you making? What is the mash tun to be made of?
Jonathan
www.madlabs.info
Original Message
From: "jjlwork" <jjlwork@y...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 10:36 AM
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] New guy looking for a quick fix
> A lot of you have provided some good information, some of you
> expressed safety concerns, I personally do not think there is any
> chance of explosion! Maybe I should elaborate more. I'm making BEER!
> Basically I have to mash(steep) grains in water between 150F - 158F.
> I'm using a modified 10 Gal stainless steel pot with a heating
> element in it. I want to monitor the temperature of the mash and any
> time it drops below 145F turn the element on or goes over 150 turn
> the element off. I want to take it one step further as well, after
> the grain has been steeping for an hour I want to turn a pump on and
> open some sort of electric valve to transfer the liquid through a
> filter to another pot with the same type of setup for boiling. I
> want an alarm to sound at three diferent time intervals...these are
> the intervals that I add hops to the boil add flavour. This is a
> little more complicated than this but the rest are details.
> Basically it would look something like this:
>
> Process:
>
> 1) Heat water to 158F
> 2) when water reaches 158F start timer and hold temp between 150- 158
> Start stiring arm moptor.
> 3) After 1 hour open drain valve and start pump
> 4)check to see if tank is empty every second if it is shut of the
> pump and start element #2
> 5) bring water to boil(temp TBD) and start timer
> 6) at 3 diferent (TBD) intervals sound alarm for adding hops
> 7) After 1 hour start pump#2 and open Drain#2 to fill fermentor(Same
> as before)
> 8) Stop
>
> maybe I could put another process so that if a maximum mash
> temperature or boiling temperature is reached then an alrm will
> sound.
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
what you're doing. To those in the trade, "medium" starts around 1000 sq.
ft. of heating surface.
No worries though, at 240/20A you're well below any licensing requirements
in BC. Couldn't say about other jurisdictions for sure but I'm doubtfull
something like that would be licensed. If its for use in your own home, you
don't even have to worry about electrical tickets (at least, not in BC).
Just make sure you have some sort of safety devices like a second
temperature sensor that would cut power to the coils. A fuse/breaker sized
appropriately and some sort of low-fluid trip to shut it off.
Remember, household fire insurance usually has a clause that negates
coverage if the fire is caused by a non CSA/UL listed device.
>
Original Message
> From: jjlwork [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=v5OZH_RkqcY0QGizcr5jf7N5oTAtuO-jYufij93ScIUuyK9yHB4mzJ8Xgm8dDGDmanw8p6Pu4mc]jjlwork@y...[/url
> Sent: August 29, 2003 11:07 AM
> To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: New guy looking for a quick fix
>
>
> I would just like to add that this is not a pressurized sytem, there
> are no air tight lids, the potential for accident id if I get a boil
> over...could be an electrifying experience! However I can implemnt
> some safety circuits.
>
>