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OT: Power Supplies — Parallax Forums

OT: Power Supplies

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2003-08-11 15:37 in General Discussion
Hello:

I appologize for this post being a little off topic however I'm
confident that a member of this group has the ability to quickly
answer my query. I have a need for a DC power supply somewhere in
the 80-110 VDC range. I have scowered the internet for info
regarding this and have found plenty of examples for AC-DC power
supply's using a transformer, bridge rectifier, and capacitor (along
with various fuses and the like). What I'm interested in is is it
possible to construct a power supply without the transformer and
what the voltage of the resulting power supply would be. I'd also be
interested in being directed to some entry level education on power
supplies if anyone has any recomendations.

Thank You
Aaron Nielsen

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-08-06 01:38
    Well, for a start, I'd suggest an isolation transformer (1:1 winding ratio)
    to isolate you from mains, a bridge rectifier, and a bunch of filter caps.
    This will get you ~110VDC. From there, you can set up a switching reg. or
    whatever to bring the voltage to where you need it. In fact, you could prob.
    run the switcher right off of 110VAC, after it goes through the isolation
    transformer.
    Investigate it some more, though... I'm no expert.

    - Robert


    Original Message
    From: "Aaron" <snazzyguy2@y...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 5:55 PM
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] OT: Power Supplies


    > Hello:
    >
    > I appologize for this post being a little off topic however I'm
    > confident that a member of this group has the ability to quickly
    > answer my query. I have a need for a DC power supply somewhere in
    > the 80-110 VDC range. I have scowered the internet for info
    > regarding this and have found plenty of examples for AC-DC power
    > supply's using a transformer, bridge rectifier, and capacitor (along
    > with various fuses and the like). What I'm interested in is is it
    > possible to construct a power supply without the transformer and
    > what the voltage of the resulting power supply would be. I'd also be
    > interested in being directed to some entry level education on power
    > supplies if anyone has any recomendations.
    >
    > Thank You
    > Aaron Nielsen
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-08-06 01:39
    Hi Aaron,

    You do not mention how much current you need.

    The 2 biggest reasons to use a transformer is to get the proper voltage, and
    Safety.

    The transformer will isolate the circuit from the Main AC power. Any short or
    marginal circuit component can over heat, burn, catch fire, or cause a deadly
    shock.
    Remember there are more lawyers listed in the phone book than physicians.

    If you are using a low power device then spend the $$ and buy an isolation
    transformer.
    If it is a high current circuit then you really need to have an experienced
    electrical engineer look it over. It only takes once to get blasted to
    oblivion.

    Im sure this is not the answer you were looking for, but it is good advice
    for using mains powered circuits.

    Alan Bradford
    Plasma Technologies


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-08-06 04:17
    Aaron,

    There are all sorts of transformerless power supplies out there. A lot
    depends on what you are looking for. What kind of a device are you running
    and what current do you need? For example, I made a power supply for a Nixie
    tube from a disposable camera flash unit, but I only needed 1-2mA at 170VDC.
    But it ran on a battery!

    However, any transformerless design that hooks up to the mains 110VAC has
    inherent dangers. Transformers limit current and are safer. If you can find
    the room for a transformer, and they make some pretty small ones, it's
    probably the way to go. Remember the max voltage of a transformer will be
    1.4 times the rated voltage, so plan accordingly. If you need a lot of
    current, make sure of what you are doing, you are dealing with potentially
    lethal voltages.

    Jonathan

    www.madlabs.info



    Original Message
    From: "Aaron" <snazzyguy2@y...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 4:55 PM
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] OT: Power Supplies


    > Hello:
    >
    > I appologize for this post being a little off topic however I'm
    > confident that a member of this group has the ability to quickly
    > answer my query. I have a need for a DC power supply somewhere in
    > the 80-110 VDC range. I have scowered the internet for info
    > regarding this and have found plenty of examples for AC-DC power
    > supply's using a transformer, bridge rectifier, and capacitor (along
    > with various fuses and the like). What I'm interested in is is it
    > possible to construct a power supply without the transformer and
    > what the voltage of the resulting power supply would be. I'd also be
    > interested in being directed to some entry level education on power
    > supplies if anyone has any recomendations.
    >
    > Thank You
    > Aaron Nielsen
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-08-09 16:53
    Hi Aaron,

    First, let me stress safety when dealing with high
    voltages. Not to lecture, but these voltages can be
    lethal and a capacitor charged to 110VDC can blow a
    small screwdriver into pieces if it's shorted.

    My first suggestion would be to look on eBay for a
    Sorensen power supply. I've seen 0 to 120 VDC, fully
    adjustable, laboratory grade, with current capacity
    from 0 to 8 amps for about the $300 range. A little
    pricey, but very nice and safer than piecing one
    together.

    A cheaper suggestion, but far less safe would be to
    use a variable transformer (still a tranformer, but it
    has a large knob to adjust the AC output voltage -
    check out Jameco's 121275 unit) to derive 0 to 120VAC,
    then rectify and filter the voltage to get 0 to
    160VDC. (You end up with about 160VDC because VDC =
    VAC RMS * 1.414)

    For some good electronics basics, including power
    supplies, and some great circuit ideas, I recommend
    Forrest Mims Engineer's Notebook. It's about $14 on
    Amazon.com.

    Be Careful,
    Dr. Diode
    --- Aaron <snazzyguy2@y...> wrote:
    > Hello:
    >
    > I appologize for this post being a little off topic
    > however I'm
    > confident that a member of this group has the
    > ability to quickly
    > answer my query. I have a need for a DC power supply
    > somewhere in
    > the 80-110 VDC range. I have scowered the internet
    > for info
    > regarding this and have found plenty of examples for
    > AC-DC power
    > supply's using a transformer, bridge rectifier, and
    > capacitor (along
    > with various fuses and the like). What I'm
    > interested in is is it
    > possible to construct a power supply without the
    > transformer and
    > what the voltage of the resulting power supply would
    > be. I'd also be
    > interested in being directed to some entry level
    > education on power
    > supplies if anyone has any recomendations.
    >
    > Thank You
    > Aaron Nielsen
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed.
    > Text in the Subject and Body of the message will be
    > ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >


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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-08-09 17:26
    Ref About using a variable transformer for this sort of power supply....
    most (if not all) variable transformers are Variacs of some sort, which
    don't offer any isolation between the inputs and outputs. They do buck and
    boost modes from a single coil with a variable tap. If you then feed the
    output of such a unit into a full-wave bridge rectifier attempting to make
    DC, the whole filter capacitor assembly will be riding on a 120 AC sine
    wave, which is about as dangerous as it gets.

    DD's remarks on safety cannot be stressed enough. While messing with the
    relatively low voltages and currents from a wall-wart derived supply cab be
    pretty benign, once you attach a circuit directly to a 120 Volt 20 Amp
    source, any real failure will be catastrophic. And I'm talking about
    capacitors that blow up like small bombs, blowing aluminum confetti all over
    your circuit (and your face), wires that vaporize in a cloud of superheated
    molten copper, parts welded together, large fires, etc.... And I'm not
    writing about this from a textbook, but from 40 years of working with
    electronics in general.

    Let's be careful out there...

    Mike Sokol
    www.modernrecording.com
    mikes@m...


    Original Message
    From: "PH" <drdiode2002@y...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 11:53 AM
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] OT: Power Supplies


    > Hi Aaron,
    >
    > First, let me stress safety when dealing with high
    > voltages. Not to lecture, but these voltages can be
    > lethal and a capacitor charged to 110VDC can blow a
    > small screwdriver into pieces if it's shorted.
    >
    > My first suggestion would be to look on eBay for a
    > Sorensen power supply. I've seen 0 to 120 VDC, fully
    > adjustable, laboratory grade, with current capacity
    > from 0 to 8 amps for about the $300 range. A little
    > pricey, but very nice and safer than piecing one
    > together.
    >
    > A cheaper suggestion, but far less safe would be to
    > use a variable transformer (still a tranformer, but it
    > has a large knob to adjust the AC output voltage -
    > check out Jameco's 121275 unit) to derive 0 to 120VAC,
    > then rectify and filter the voltage to get 0 to
    > 160VDC. (You end up with about 160VDC because VDC =
    > VAC RMS * 1.414)
    >
    > For some good electronics basics, including power
    > supplies, and some great circuit ideas, I recommend
    > Forrest Mims Engineer's Notebook. It's about $14 on
    > Amazon.com.
    >
    > Be Careful,
    > Dr. Diode
    > --- Aaron <snazzyguy2@y...> wrote:
    > > Hello:
    > >
    > > I appologize for this post being a little off topic
    > > however I'm
    > > confident that a member of this group has the
    > > ability to quickly
    > > answer my query. I have a need for a DC power supply
    > > somewhere in
    > > the 80-110 VDC range. I have scowered the internet
    > > for info
    > > regarding this and have found plenty of examples for
    > > AC-DC power
    > > supply's using a transformer, bridge rectifier, and
    > > capacitor (along
    > > with various fuses and the like). What I'm
    > > interested in is is it
    > > possible to construct a power supply without the
    > > transformer and
    > > what the voltage of the resulting power supply would
    > > be. I'd also be
    > > interested in being directed to some entry level
    > > education on power
    > > supplies if anyone has any recomendations.
    > >
    > > Thank You
    > > Aaron Nielsen
    > >
    > >
    > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > from the same email address that you subscribed.
    > > Text in the Subject and Body of the message will be
    > > ignored.
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    > __________________________________
    > Do you Yahoo!?
    > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
    > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-08-09 17:29
    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron" <snazzyguy2@y...> wrote:
    > Hello:
    >
    > I appologize for this post being a little off topic however I'm
    > confident that a member of this group has the ability to quickly
    > answer my query. I have a need for a DC power supply somewhere in
    > the 80-110 VDC range. I have scowered the internet for info
    > regarding this and have found plenty of examples for AC-DC power
    > supply's using a transformer, bridge rectifier, and capacitor
    (along
    > with various fuses and the like). What I'm interested in is is it
    > possible to construct a power supply without the transformer and
    > what the voltage of the resulting power supply would be. I'd also
    be
    > interested in being directed to some entry level education on power
    > supplies if anyone has any recomendations.


    What you are talking about is a switcher type of power supply. This
    will have huge ripple problems and the inductors used to remove the
    ripple are often as large as a transformer. or you will need to
    design the caps to remove the frequencies in the ranges you are
    worried about.

    it would seem that you are not after low power or a simple resistor
    network would offer high voltage signals, but low power or high heat.

    once you start to get away from the self regulating effects of the
    transformer, you need to compensate with active circuit components.

    but, if you don't need high power, get one of those Torche lamps.
    rated for around 300 watts. it has a tiny circuit to regulate
    voltage into the lamp.

    The problem with not using active regulation is that you are subject
    to power line glitches and spikes.

    A word of caution - tie stuff to the bench when working. small
    circuit boards can flip over from the twist of the wire. (Don't ask
    me how I know, but the scar has healed nicely.)






    >
    > Thank You
    > Aaron Nielsen
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-08-11 15:37
    the Amateur Radio Handbook available from arrl.com has excellent technical
    and design information about power supplies and other electronics. Many
    other publications are also available there.

    jim
    http://www.geocities.com/jimforkin2003/


    Original Message
    From: Dave Mucha [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=iYqb9DdD-wRNZUjlCRYv8ton7jVgc_87vbz65CI6J2C646FvLk_RTMuL5CRjjWSqz23zsnnKEqedVQ0]davemucha@j...[/url
    Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 12:30 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: OT: Power Supplies


    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron" <snazzyguy2@y...> wrote:
    > Hello:
    >
    > I appologize for this post being a little off topic however I'm
    > confident that a member of this group has the ability to quickly
    > answer my query. I have a need for a DC power supply somewhere in
    > the 80-110 VDC range. I have scowered the internet for info
    > regarding this and have found plenty of examples for AC-DC power
    > supply's using a transformer, bridge rectifier, and capacitor
    (along
    > with various fuses and the like). What I'm interested in is is it
    > possible to construct a power supply without the transformer and
    > what the voltage of the resulting power supply would be. I'd also
    be
    > interested in being directed to some entry level education on power
    > supplies if anyone has any recomendations.


    What you are talking about is a switcher type of power supply. This
    will have huge ripple problems and the inductors used to remove the
    ripple are often as large as a transformer. or you will need to
    design the caps to remove the frequencies in the ranges you are
    worried about.

    it would seem that you are not after low power or a simple resistor
    network would offer high voltage signals, but low power or high heat.

    once you start to get away from the self regulating effects of the
    transformer, you need to compensate with active circuit components.

    but, if you don't need high power, get one of those Torche lamps.
    rated for around 300 watts. it has a tiny circuit to regulate
    voltage into the lamp.

    The problem with not using active regulation is that you are subject
    to power line glitches and spikes.

    A word of caution - tie stuff to the bench when working. small
    circuit boards can flip over from the twist of the wire. (Don't ask
    me how I know, but the scar has healed nicely.)






    >
    > Thank You
    > Aaron Nielsen


    To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
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