How to lock BS2 ?
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Posts: 46,084
How can I lock the program in the BS2 so no one can access it? Need
info on the software procedure and hardware one...thanks.
info on the software procedure and hardware one...thanks.
Comments
is compiled to tokens and downloaded to the BASIC Stamp. Once they're
in the Stamp in token form, the extremely difficult to remove and no one
-- that we know of -- has produced a decompiler that actually works.
The only thing you have to protect is your source code file(s).
-- Jon Williams
-- Parallax
Original Message
From: basilflorida [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=9tl5YyMlvJCPoRl3v48K0R01bvpUpEmR7ltLZTIdkubkYAkVEYNFYZUihJe8rK5EP6J3zIwIiI38TVMHFw]basilflorida@y...[/url
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 4:33 PM
To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] How to lock BS2 ?
How can I lock the program in the BS2 so no one can access it? Need
info on the software procedure and hardware one...thanks.
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on your Stamp's EEPROM for access via your Stamp's microprocessor. If
the EEPROM were "locked", the microprocessor itself couldn't fetch
it, and your program couldn't run. It's a fact of the Stamp's
architecture.
As Jon pointed out, it is not possible to recover your Stamp
program's source code from the EEPROM. The reason is simple--it's
not stored on the Stamp, it resides on your programmer platform only
(PC or whatever). However, the tokenized version of the program can
in fact be recovered--in mere seconds and without leaving any
sign--then easily cloned in other Stamps, and/or analyzed to produce
a functionally equivalent set of source code. This isn't speculation
or theory--it's been done. While Parallax may not acknowledge this
possibility, you may want to know it exists.
Bottom line: very sensitive information (e.g., high cost proprietary
code, DATA statements containing location of secret moon base, Stamp
program to steal gold from Fort Knox) can be retrieved and used by
others.
Regards,
Steve
On 24 Jul 03 at 21:32, basilflorida wrote:
> How can I lock the program in the BS2 so no one can access it? Need
> info on the software procedure and hardware one...thanks.
pin, and maybe cover whatever metal that is still visible with epoxy.
Of course, you will not be able to program it anymore.
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "S Parkis" <parkiss@e...> wrote:
> This isn't practical or feasible. Your (tokenized) program is
stored
> on your Stamp's EEPROM for access via your Stamp's microprocessor.
If
> the EEPROM were "locked", the microprocessor itself couldn't fetch
> it, and your program couldn't run. It's a fact of the Stamp's
> architecture.
>
> As Jon pointed out, it is not possible to recover your Stamp
> program's source code from the EEPROM. The reason is simple--it's
> not stored on the Stamp, it resides on your programmer platform only
> (PC or whatever). However, the tokenized version of the program can
> in fact be recovered--in mere seconds and without leaving any
> sign--then easily cloned in other Stamps, and/or analyzed to produce
> a functionally equivalent set of source code. This isn't
speculation
> or theory--it's been done. While Parallax may not acknowledge this
> possibility, you may want to know it exists.
>
> Bottom line: very sensitive information (e.g., high cost proprietary
> code, DATA statements containing location of secret moon base, Stamp
> program to steal gold from Fort Knox) can be retrieved and used by
> others.
>
> Regards,
>
> Steve
>
>
> On 24 Jul 03 at 21:32, basilflorida wrote:
>
> > How can I lock the program in the BS2 so no one can access it?
Need
> > info on the software procedure and hardware one...thanks.
onto the EEPROM or pull the EEPROM from the Stamp board. Only solution there
is to cut off the pin actually on the EEPROM, but then it becomes useless to
the Stamp.
- Robert
Original Message
From: "LarryR" <nospam4russell@c...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 2:03 PM
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: How to lock BS2 ?
> A radical solution: After you program it, cut off the serial output
> pin, and maybe cover whatever metal that is still visible with epoxy.
> Of course, you will not be able to program it anymore.
>
> --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "S Parkis" <parkiss@e...> wrote:
> > This isn't practical or feasible. Your (tokenized) program is
> stored
> > on your Stamp's EEPROM for access via your Stamp's microprocessor.
> If
> > the EEPROM were "locked", the microprocessor itself couldn't fetch
> > it, and your program couldn't run. It's a fact of the Stamp's
> > architecture.
> >
> > As Jon pointed out, it is not possible to recover your Stamp
> > program's source code from the EEPROM. The reason is simple--it's
> > not stored on the Stamp, it resides on your programmer platform only
> > (PC or whatever). However, the tokenized version of the program can
> > in fact be recovered--in mere seconds and without leaving any
> > sign--then easily cloned in other Stamps, and/or analyzed to produce
> > a functionally equivalent set of source code. This isn't
> speculation
> > or theory--it's been done. While Parallax may not acknowledge this
> > possibility, you may want to know it exists.
> >
> > Bottom line: very sensitive information (e.g., high cost proprietary
> > code, DATA statements containing location of secret moon base, Stamp
> > program to steal gold from Fort Knox) can be retrieved and used by
> > others.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > On 24 Jul 03 at 21:32, basilflorida wrote:
> >
> > > How can I lock the program in the BS2 so no one can access it?
> Need
> > > info on the software procedure and hardware one...thanks.
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
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> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
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>
>
set, attempts to read the assembled hex code from the PIC will produce
randomized code. This can be defeated, but it requires a major effort
and extra hardware.
In theory, pBASIC could be extended to include this option, but in
practice there wouldn't be much call for it among the Stamp user group.
Dennis
Original Message
From: Robert Ussery [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=-_zpRPXQMhNOXrRccjxoMob6Y9Gwxn3ET9c8EOfueLvvF4JY6T5HPR4-ex33ufniJcbeUkWDEXhgpEyL]uavscience@f...[/url
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 1:24 PM
To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: How to lock BS2 ?
Problem with that is you can still access the EEPROM - just solder a
wire onto the EEPROM or pull the EEPROM from the Stamp board. Only
solution there is to cut off the pin actually on the EEPROM, but then it
becomes useless to the Stamp.
- Robert
<deleted>
interpreter. It stores the P-compiled code
in an on-module EEPROM as part of the
download process. So while you
can't read the PIC's interpreter, you
still can read the EEPROM.
As has been mentioned, though, this only
gets you the compiled version of the code,
which is of limited use. I suppose
someone COULD go through all the effort of
reverse-engineering the source, and there's
really no way to prevent that. What I ask
myself is, doesn't this take an awful
amount of time, effort, (and perhaps money?).
If you're code is so sensitive that it is
WORTH the time and money to reverse-engineer
it, then you probably shouldn't put it in
a BS2. You could put it directly into a
PIC, and set the no-read bit, for instance.
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Dennis O'Leary <doleary@e...>
wrote:
> Microchip PICs can be programmed to set the Code Fuse Bit. When it
is
> set, attempts to read the assembled hex code from the PIC will
produce
> randomized code. This can be defeated, but it requires a major
effort
> and extra hardware.
>
> In theory, pBASIC could be extended to include this option, but in
> practice there wouldn't be much call for it among the Stamp user
group.
>
> Dennis
>
>
Original Message
> From: Robert Ussery [noparse][[/noparse]mailto:uavscience@f...]
> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 1:24 PM
> To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: How to lock BS2 ?
>
>
> Problem with that is you can still access the EEPROM - just solder a
> wire onto the EEPROM or pull the EEPROM from the Stamp board. Only
> solution there is to cut off the pin actually on the EEPROM, but
then it
> becomes useless to the Stamp.
>
> - Robert
> <deleted>