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tooling telescoping tube — Parallax Forums

tooling telescoping tube

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2003-05-24 17:10 in General Discussion
I wonder if you guys who make robots and mechanical things might have
any advice about this.

I have a 2 inch long stainless steel tube, 5/8" o.d., 0.029" wall,
and I need to cut a longitudinal slot in the wall. The slot has to
be between 0.08" and 0.1" wide, and it has to be 0.6" long, starting
0.25" from one end of the tube.

I don't know what tooling would work best to cut a clean slot. side
cutter? grinder? rotary tool? I have a lathe and a die grinder.

The idea is that this tube will telescope into another tube, and a
#52 machine screw will come through the outside tube into the slot
and constrain the travel. There will be a detector switch at the end
inside the slot that will be activated by the screw coming in from
outside.

-- best regards
Tracy Allen
electronically monitored ecosystems
http://www.emesystems.com
mailto:tracy@e...

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-20 22:05
    if the part is high-volume, you "punch" the slot in the part with hard
    tooling.

    Short runs I would use a end mill and machine the slot with a
    Bridgeport or such.

    If it's one-out and you don't have a mill then you could drill some
    holes and file the slot to size.

    --- Tracy Allen <tracy@e...> wrote:
    > I wonder if you guys who make robots and mechanical things might have
    >
    > any advice about this.
    >
    > I have a 2 inch long stainless steel tube, 5/8" o.d., 0.029" wall,
    > and I need to cut a longitudinal slot in the wall. The slot has to
    > be between 0.08" and 0.1" wide, and it has to be 0.6" long, starting
    > 0.25" from one end of the tube.
    >
    > I don't know what tooling would work best to cut a clean slot. side
    > cutter? grinder? rotary tool? I have a lathe and a die grinder.
    >
    > The idea is that this tube will telescope into another tube, and a
    > #52 machine screw will come through the outside tube into the slot
    > and constrain the travel. There will be a detector switch at the end
    >
    > inside the slot that will be activated by the screw coming in from
    > outside.
    >
    > -- best regards
    > Tracy Allen
    > electronically monitored ecosystems
    > http://www.emesystems.com
    > mailto:tracy@e...
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
    > and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >


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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-20 22:14
    Ideally a mill and an end mill would do the trick, but.... you might chuck
    your tube in your lathe, clamp your die grinder in the tool post, and use
    an appropriate sized burr. Stainless is a bit tricky to work with, I would
    suggest trying to create your slot on a scrap piece first. Drilling a
    series of holes with a drill and use a very small hand file to finish is
    another (albeit not elegant) solution. Maybe a small grinder wheel in your
    die grinder held perpendicular to the axis of the tube would work, I'm not
    sure how thick one of those are. Or make a three axis mill using the stamp
    for control and use a couple temp and humidity sensors to calculate the
    expansion rate of the stainless and compensate for the difference (just
    joking) [noparse]:)[/noparse] Dan


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    | | 05/20/2003 04:55 |
    | | PM |
    | | Please respond to|
    | | basicstamps |
    | | |
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    +
    >

    >
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    | To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
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    | Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] tooling telescoping tube
    |

    >
    \
    |




    I wonder if you guys who make robots and mechanical things might have
    any advice about this.

    I have a 2 inch long stainless steel tube, 5/8" o.d., 0.029" wall,
    and I need to cut a longitudinal slot in the wall. The slot has to
    be between 0.08" and 0.1" wide, and it has to be 0.6" long, starting
    0.25" from one end of the tube.

    I don't know what tooling would work best to cut a clean slot. side
    cutter? grinder? rotary tool? I have a lathe and a die grinder.

    The idea is that this tube will telescope into another tube, and a
    #52 machine screw will come through the outside tube into the slot
    and constrain the travel. There will be a detector switch at the end
    inside the slot that will be activated by the screw coming in from
    outside.

    -- best regards
    Tracy Allen
    electronically monitored ecosystems
    http://www.emesystems.com
    mailto:tracy@e...

    To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-20 23:07
    > I wonder if you guys who make robots and mechanical things might have
    > any advice about this.
    >
    > I have a 2 inch long stainless steel tube, 5/8" o.d., 0.029" wall,
    > and I need to cut a longitudinal slot in the wall. The slot has to
    > be between 0.08" and 0.1" wide, and it has to be 0.6" long, starting
    > 0.25" from one end of the tube.
    >
    > I don't know what tooling would work best to cut a clean slot. side
    > cutter? grinder? rotary tool? I have a lathe and a die grinder.
    >
    > The idea is that this tube will telescope into another tube, and a
    > #52 machine screw will come through the outside tube into the slot
    > and constrain the travel. There will be a detector switch at the end
    > inside the slot that will be activated by the screw coming in from
    > outside.

    A mill with an endmill would be the 'proper' tool for the job. For a
    one-of prototype, you could use a dremel.

    For production quantities, you should look into laser or waterjet
    cutting.

    Mark Hillier, VE6HVW
    President, HVW Technologies Inc.
    Canadian Distributors of Parallax Products and other Neat Stuff
    Tel: (403)-730-8603 Fax: (403)-730-8903
    http://www.HVWTech.com
    ** New Breadboard Voltage Regulator (BVR) -A plugable +5 Volt
    power supply !
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-21 01:08
    Hi,

    if you have a lathe, use a jewelers saw.

    you can easily make an arbor for a 1" saw.

    you can buy either the full size or a smaller one and take a couple
    cuts.

    I just made a collet for my router and it went very easy.

    since you can turn the lathe very slow (you need to cut slow) it is a
    piece of cake.

    if you want some drawings or picutes, let me know.

    I make a sqare holder for the tube and held it in the tool post, then
    just fed it in to the part with the cross slide.

    it went very smoothly and would be easy to do if you have even
    minimal lathe experiance.

    An alternative method would be to hold the tube the same way, but use
    an end mill of the final size. you would feed the carrage to
    penetrate the tube with the mill, and then feed the carrage to the
    lenght you need. this too is pretty simple.


    Dave


    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Tracy Allen <tracy@e...> wrote:
    > I wonder if you guys who make robots and mechanical things might
    have
    > any advice about this.
    >
    > I have a 2 inch long stainless steel tube, 5/8" o.d., 0.029" wall,
    > and I need to cut a longitudinal slot in the wall. The slot has to
    > be between 0.08" and 0.1" wide, and it has to be 0.6" long,
    starting
    > 0.25" from one end of the tube.
    >
    > I don't know what tooling would work best to cut a clean slot.
    side
    > cutter? grinder? rotary tool? I have a lathe and a die grinder.
    >
    > The idea is that this tube will telescope into another tube, and a
    > #52 machine screw will come through the outside tube into the slot
    > and constrain the travel. There will be a detector switch at the
    end
    > inside the slot that will be activated by the screw coming in from
    > outside.
    >
    > -- best regards
    > Tracy Allen
    > electronically monitored ecosystems
    > http://www.emesystems.com
    > mailto:tracy@e...
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-21 03:58
    If all else fails, send me a foot or so of it (I need to practice too!) and
    I'll cut you one on our laser. It isn't a rotary (which would be
    preferred) but we could do what you are talking about. We call that
    'Government' work. The stuff you don't pay for [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    -John


    At 01:55 PM 5/20/2003 -0700, you wrote:
    >I wonder if you guys who make robots and mechanical things might have
    >any advice about this.
    >
    >I have a 2 inch long stainless steel tube, 5/8" o.d., 0.029" wall,
    >and I need to cut a longitudinal slot in the wall. The slot has to
    >be between 0.08" and 0.1" wide, and it has to be 0.6" long, starting
    >0.25" from one end of the tube.
    >
    >I don't know what tooling would work best to cut a clean slot. side
    >cutter? grinder? rotary tool? I have a lathe and a die grinder.
    >
    >The idea is that this tube will telescope into another tube, and a
    >#52 machine screw will come through the outside tube into the slot
    >and constrain the travel. There will be a detector switch at the end
    >inside the slot that will be activated by the screw coming in from
    >outside.
    >
    > -- best regards
    > Tracy Allen
    > electronically monitored ecosystems
    > http://www.emesystems.com
    > mailto:tracy@e...
    >
    >To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    >Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-21 04:04
    Kinda tough due to the dimensions, especially if it has to be accurate. Its
    easy to find 1/8" endmills, but smaller ones are $$$. Doubtful an of the
    Dremel bits would cut the stainless cleanly.

    The trick may be to mount the tube on the cross slide of the lathe and use a
    reinforced Dremel cutoff disk chucked in the lathe to cut the slot.

    Original Message

    > I wonder if you guys who make robots and mechanical things might have
    > any advice about this.
    >
    > I have a 2 inch long stainless steel tube, 5/8" o.d., 0.029" wall,
    > and I need to cut a longitudinal slot in the wall. The slot has to
    > be between 0.08" and 0.1" wide, and it has to be 0.6" long, starting
    > 0.25" from one end of the tube.
    >
    > I don't know what tooling would work best to cut a clean slot. side
    > cutter? grinder? rotary tool? I have a lathe and a die grinder.
    >
    > The idea is that this tube will telescope into another tube, and a
    > #52 machine screw will come through the outside tube into the slot
    > and constrain the travel. There will be a detector switch at the end
    > inside the slot that will be activated by the screw coming in from
    > outside.
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-21 05:03
    okay, I hate to double post, but you could try this:

    clamp the part onto the toolholder / carriage

    put a 1/16 center drill in the chuck

    poke holes for the rough slot, then use the center drill as an end mill
    to clean up the slot on the z axis.

    Run high r's, use coolant, if it's 300 series stainless take big bites
    or get a bunch of those center drills. Good thing they're double
    ended.

    --- Rodent <daweasel@s...> wrote:
    > Kinda tough due to the dimensions, especially if it has to be
    > accurate. Its
    > easy to find 1/8" endmills, but smaller ones are $$$. Doubtful an of
    > the
    > Dremel bits would cut the stainless cleanly.
    >
    > The trick may be to mount the tube on the cross slide of the lathe
    > and use a
    > reinforced Dremel cutoff disk chucked in the lathe to cut the slot.
    >
    >
    Original Message
    >
    > > I wonder if you guys who make robots and mechanical things might
    > have
    > > any advice about this.
    > >
    > > I have a 2 inch long stainless steel tube, 5/8" o.d., 0.029" wall,
    > > and I need to cut a longitudinal slot in the wall. The slot has to
    > > be between 0.08" and 0.1" wide, and it has to be 0.6" long,
    > starting
    > > 0.25" from one end of the tube.
    > >
    > > I don't know what tooling would work best to cut a clean slot.
    > side
    > > cutter? grinder? rotary tool? I have a lathe and a die grinder.
    > >
    > > The idea is that this tube will telescope into another tube, and a
    > > #52 machine screw will come through the outside tube into the slot
    > > and constrain the travel. There will be a detector switch at the
    > end
    > > inside the slot that will be activated by the screw coming in from
    > > outside.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
    > and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >


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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-21 05:10
    Thanks for all of the suggestions.

    I looked at the end mills in McMaster-Carr catalog, and find that
    most of the ones less than 1/8" diameter are carbide. (=brittle? You
    break it you buy $$ another.) There are a couple in highspeed steel
    with TiN surface hardening. But I would still not know what to buy
    one, two three, four flute, straight flute spiral flute? There are
    also woodruff key cutters of the right thickness, and some small
    slitting saws. Some of you also suggested grinding tools (at high
    speed?) and a jeweller's saw. (is that a kind of blade?).

    I don't know how fast to run the tools for SS. Do you go in a little
    ways and then go along the length of the cut, and then a little
    deeper along the length, or do you go all the way through at one end,
    and then cut the length all the way through? With cutting oil? I'm
    more used to brass and to plastic.

    I do want a nice smooth, straight cut. I know the workpiece has to
    be held very rigid. I do have a lathe, an old Myford (not numerical
    by a long shot!). It has a nice smooth cross-slide, and I also have
    a vertical slide, and a v-groove holder and assorted dogs and clamps.

    -- best regards,
    Tracy
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-21 12:25
    Chances are your lathe can't turn fast enough to deal with the small
    endmill -- its takes some serious RPM. The abrasive or slitting saw would be
    best. You just work really slow and make small cuts.

    One other method mentioned by others was to mount the tube in the chuck on
    the lathe, lock it so it can't rotate, then mount a Dremel tool on the
    toolpost. This would give you the accuracy and speed.

    Original Message

    > I looked at the end mills in McMaster-Carr catalog, and find that
    > most of the ones less than 1/8" diameter are carbide. (=brittle? You
    > break it you buy $$ another.) There are a couple in highspeed steel
    > with TiN surface hardening. But I would still not know what to buy
    > one, two three, four flute, straight flute spiral flute? There are
    > also woodruff key cutters of the right thickness, and some small
    > slitting saws. Some of you also suggested grinding tools (at high
    > speed?) and a jeweller's saw. (is that a kind of blade?).
    >
    > I don't know how fast to run the tools for SS. Do you go in a little
    > ways and then go along the length of the cut, and then a little
    > deeper along the length, or do you go all the way through at one end,
    > and then cut the length all the way through? With cutting oil? I'm
    > more used to brass and to plastic.
    >
    > I do want a nice smooth, straight cut. I know the workpiece has to
    > be held very rigid. I do have a lathe, an old Myford (not numerical
    > by a long shot!). It has a nice smooth cross-slide, and I also have
    > a vertical slide, and a v-groove holder and assorted dogs and clamps.
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-21 13:06
    I missed out on some of this but...
    Why not use some hall effect sensors? No slots or switches needed then.
    You only need some small magnets to mount at choice places on the tube(s),
    then when the magnet moves in close to the hall effect sensor, the MCU can
    pick up on this and stop/start whatever. I got my magnets from a guy on EBAY
    who had some really small ones too.

    Although many of you missed out on on DPRG's Ralph demonstrating a neat
    PCB cutter using a dremel tool mounted on a fabricated frame. This would be
    a good approach. You make up a board and frame with a dremel tool mounted on
    it so that the dremel can slide back and forth, then clamp down the PCB or
    tube in this case. Next you fire it up and carefully move the dremel long
    the PCB or tube as far as is needed.


    Original Message
    From: Rodent [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=roZ8jxn4hS5W2M5bPQzh0b8yzPKZOu5zjcxKPK1XA0kw8UOR94HuAT_8Hm11YXQPUMKIJbqj6AK1fQ]daweasel@s...[/url
    Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 6:25 AM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] tooling telescoping tube


    Chances are your lathe can't turn fast enough to deal with the small
    endmill -- its takes some serious RPM. The abrasive or slitting saw would be
    best. You just work really slow and make small cuts.

    One other method mentioned by others was to mount the tube in the chuck on
    the lathe, lock it so it can't rotate, then mount a Dremel tool on the
    toolpost. This would give you the accuracy and speed.

    Original Message

    > I looked at the end mills in McMaster-Carr catalog, and find that
    > most of the ones less than 1/8" diameter are carbide. (=brittle? You
    > break it you buy $$ another.) There are a couple in highspeed steel
    > with TiN surface hardening. But I would still not know what to buy
    > one, two three, four flute, straight flute spiral flute? There are
    > also woodruff key cutters of the right thickness, and some small
    > slitting saws. Some of you also suggested grinding tools (at high
    > speed?) and a jeweller's saw. (is that a kind of blade?).
    >
    > I don't know how fast to run the tools for SS. Do you go in a little
    > ways and then go along the length of the cut, and then a little
    > deeper along the length, or do you go all the way through at one end,
    > and then cut the length all the way through? With cutting oil? I'm
    > more used to brass and to plastic.
    >
    > I do want a nice smooth, straight cut. I know the workpiece has to
    > be held very rigid. I do have a lathe, an old Myford (not numerical
    > by a long shot!). It has a nice smooth cross-slide, and I also have
    > a vertical slide, and a v-groove holder and assorted dogs and clamps.




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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-21 15:59
    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Rodent <daweasel@s...> wrote:
    > Chances are your lathe can't turn fast enough to deal with the small
    > endmill -- its takes some serious RPM. The abrasive or slitting saw
    would be
    > best. You just work really slow and make small cuts.
    >
    > One other method mentioned by others was to mount the tube in the
    chuck on
    > the lathe, lock it so it can't rotate, then mount a Dremel tool on
    the
    > toolpost. This would give you the accuracy and speed.



    The endmill does not need to run fast at all. each flute will take
    roughly 0.001" or metal, so a 2 flute end mill will take roughly 500
    cuts per inch. at 500 RPM, it would take a full minute to cut a one
    inch lenght. at 250 RPM, twice as long.

    the Dremel will spin at roughly 25,000 RPM as compared to the lathe's
    top end of about 3,000 RPM. mounting the Dremel on the tool post
    would be better if you wanted to go this route. A word of caution is
    to cover all the ways with rags whenever grinding near them, then
    clean off everything to get any bits of grinding dust off.

    Dave











    >
    >
    Original Message
    >
    > > I looked at the end mills in McMaster-Carr catalog, and find that
    > > most of the ones less than 1/8" diameter are carbide. (=brittle?
    You
    > > break it you buy $$ another.) There are a couple in highspeed
    steel
    > > with TiN surface hardening. But I would still not know what to
    buy
    > > one, two three, four flute, straight flute spiral flute? There
    are
    > > also woodruff key cutters of the right thickness, and some small
    > > slitting saws. Some of you also suggested grinding tools (at high
    > > speed?) and a jeweller's saw. (is that a kind of blade?).
    > >
    > > I don't know how fast to run the tools for SS. Do you go in a
    little
    > > ways and then go along the length of the cut, and then a little
    > > deeper along the length, or do you go all the way through at one
    end,
    > > and then cut the length all the way through? With cutting oil?
    I'm
    > > more used to brass and to plastic.
    > >
    > > I do want a nice smooth, straight cut. I know the workpiece has
    to
    > > be held very rigid. I do have a lathe, an old Myford (not
    numerical
    > > by a long shot!). It has a nice smooth cross-slide, and I also
    have
    > > a vertical slide, and a v-groove holder and assorted dogs and
    clamps.
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-21 17:33
    Hi Tracy -

    Tracy Allen wrote:
    > I looked at the end mills in McMaster-Carr catalog, and find that
    > most of the ones less than 1/8" diameter are carbide. (=brittle? You
    > break it you buy $$ another.)

    Quite brittle. Works well for most materials IF the setup is rigid.

    > There are a couple in highspeed steel with TiN surface hardening.

    Good way to go for GP use.

    > But I would still not know what to buy one, two three, four flute,
    > straight flute spiral flute?

    Usually you'd choose two flute mills for plunge cuts, four flutes
    for milling (faster, or better finish). Spiral flutes most apps,
    faster spiral for softer material.

    Cutoff wheels are usually the cheapest solution if you can
    live with the tolerance and finish.

    > I don't know how fast to run the tools for SS.

    Look in Handbooks under "Feeds & Speeds". SS thermal conductivity is
    low, so heat buildup work-hardens the piece ahead of the cutter...

    regards, Jack
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-21 17:55
    Tracy,
    Another supplier of cutting tools you may wish to check
    out is www.use-enco.com. They have an online catalog and
    ordering and you may find their prices a little lower.

    Stainless can be difficult to machine in a small home type shop
    because of it's work hardening properties. The thin wall of the
    tube shouldn't be too difficult though. As another has already
    suggested, feed the cutter as aggressively as possible. Real
    fine feed and slow cutting leads to the work hardening problem.
    Use plenty of coolant. In my home shop, this means a steady
    stream of wd40. Not good for much else, but it makes a reasonable
    coolant for us home shop guys.

    Success will also depend on how rigidly you hold the tubing.
    You might try machining a piece of aluminum rod to be a nice
    push fit into the tubing. This would allow you to solidly clamp
    the tubing horizontally in your vertical slide and reduce the
    burr from cutting. Another product called Cerrosafe Alloy would
    lend itself nicely to this job. Cerrosafe is a low temp alloy that
    melts between 158-190 deg F. You melt it, fill the piece of tubing,
    do the machining, then simply melt it back out for reuse. This
    would allow very rigid holding either horizontally or vertically in
    your vertical slide.

    I would suggest carbide end mills. 2 or 4 flute will work, just make
    sure they are center cutting (allows you to drill a hole like a drill bit).
    The 4-flute would require less rpm to get the same surface feet per
    minute cutting speed compared to the 2-flute.
    The end mill should be available in .09375 diameter and not too
    expensive (Enco322-6006~$4.50). M42 cobalt would be my second
    choice (Enco321-9515~$6.00).

    Remember, the softer the material, the faster the bit should turn,
    and the harder the slower. SS is pretty hard, so a slower rpm
    would be called for, but since the cutter is such a small diameter,
    it can still be run at a pretty high rpm. I would try 1000+ rpm.
    You will have to experiment to see what works best for your
    setup and cutter combination. I find that I can seldom run at
    the suggested SFPM as quoted in the professional machining
    references. I have much better luck slowing things down to
    even half the suggested rates. Our small home shop equipment
    usually doesn't have the rigidity and control required for the
    higher cut rates.

    Hope these ideas help,
    Dennis

    > >>I have a 2 inch long stainless steel tube, 5/8" o.d., 0.029" wall,
    > >>and I need to cut a longitudinal slot in the wall. The slot has to
    > >>be between 0.08" and 0.1" wide, and it has to be 0.6" long,
    > >starting
    > >>0.25" from one end of the tube.
    >
    >
    > I looked at the end mills in McMaster-Carr catalog, and find that
    > most of the ones less than 1/8" diameter are carbide. (=brittle? You
    > break it you buy $$ another.) There are a couple in highspeed steel
    > with TiN surface hardening. But I would still not know what to buy
    > one, two three, four flute, straight flute spiral flute? There are
    > also woodruff key cutters of the right thickness, and some small
    > slitting saws. Some of you also suggested grinding tools (at high
    > speed?) and a jeweller's saw. (is that a kind of blade?).
    >
    > I don't know how fast to run the tools for SS. Do you go in a little
    > ways and then go along the length of the cut, and then a little
    > deeper along the length, or do you go all the way through at one end,
    > and then cut the length all the way through? With cutting oil? I'm
    > more used to brass and to plastic.
    >
    > I do want a nice smooth, straight cut. I know the workpiece has to
    > be held very rigid. I do have a lathe, an old Myford (not numerical
    > by a long shot!). It has a nice smooth cross-slide, and I also have
    > a vertical slide, and a v-groove holder and assorted dogs and clamps.
    >
    > -- best regards,
    > Tracy
    >
    >

    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-22 17:37
    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, borgmandl@c... wrote:
    > Tracy,
    > Another supplier of cutting tools you may wish to check
    > out is www.use-enco.com. They have an online catalog and
    > ordering and you may find their prices a little lower.
    >
    > Stainless can be difficult to machine in a small home type shop
    > because of it's work hardening properties. The thin wall of the
    > tube shouldn't be too difficult though. As another has already
    > suggested, feed the cutter as aggressively as possible. Real
    > fine feed and slow cutting leads to the work hardening problem.

    The problem of work hardening is caused by 2 things. one is
    excessive heat that is heat treating the metals. the other is a dull
    cutter pushing the metal, besides heat, it compresses the surface
    making it more dense.

    Speed has little to do with it and slow speed will not result in work
    hardening if the bit is sharp. much like a hand file will not cause
    the problem of work hardening.

    One of the probems with feeds is that cutters need to work is some
    specific way. Carbides have edges that are duller due to the fact
    that they are brittle. razor point edges will break ruining the
    bits. but, they can handle deeper cuts per flute and will last much
    longer. so a heavier feed for carbide is recomended.

    Personally, I could be concerned with carbide on such a small cutter
    as they are prone to snap more easily than HSS or cobalt.

    cobalt is a great choice as it is often much harder HSS and wears
    much longer.

    lubracation for cutting on this type of part is for cooling the part
    and cutter as well as cutting lubracation. a drip oiler will work
    great and you can just stop occasionally to refil it. if you catch
    the old oil, you can just pour it back in and let it drip again,
    chips and all. or you can filter it thru a cloth and get the big
    chips out.

    the idea about work support is dead on. as you mill the slot, the
    part will naturally become weaker. an internal support or external
    clamp will work, if the external clamp is more like a collet than a
    vise.

    Dave









    > Use plenty of coolant. In my home shop, this means a steady
    > stream of wd40. Not good for much else, but it makes a reasonable
    > coolant for us home shop guys.





    >
    > Success will also depend on how rigidly you hold the tubing.
    > You might try machining a piece of aluminum rod to be a nice
    > push fit into the tubing. This would allow you to solidly clamp
    > the tubing horizontally in your vertical slide and reduce the
    > burr from cutting. Another product called Cerrosafe Alloy would
    > lend itself nicely to this job. Cerrosafe is a low temp alloy that
    > melts between 158-190 deg F. You melt it, fill the piece of tubing,
    > do the machining, then simply melt it back out for reuse. This
    > would allow very rigid holding either horizontally or vertically in
    > your vertical slide.
    >
    > I would suggest carbide end mills. 2 or 4 flute will work, just make
    > sure they are center cutting (allows you to drill a hole like a
    drill bit).
    > The 4-flute would require less rpm to get the same surface feet per
    > minute cutting speed compared to the 2-flute.
    > The end mill should be available in .09375 diameter and not too
    > expensive (Enco322-6006~$4.50). M42 cobalt would be my second
    > choice (Enco321-9515~$6.00).
    >
    > Remember, the softer the material, the faster the bit should turn,
    > and the harder the slower. SS is pretty hard, so a slower rpm
    > would be called for, but since the cutter is such a small diameter,
    > it can still be run at a pretty high rpm. I would try 1000+ rpm.
    > You will have to experiment to see what works best for your
    > setup and cutter combination. I find that I can seldom run at
    > the suggested SFPM as quoted in the professional machining
    > references. I have much better luck slowing things down to
    > even half the suggested rates. Our small home shop equipment
    > usually doesn't have the rigidity and control required for the
    > higher cut rates.
    >
    > Hope these ideas help,
    > Dennis
    >
    > > >>I have a 2 inch long stainless steel tube, 5/8" o.d., 0.029"
    wall,
    > > >>and I need to cut a longitudinal slot in the wall. The slot
    has to
    > > >>be between 0.08" and 0.1" wide, and it has to be 0.6" long,
    > > >starting
    > > >>0.25" from one end of the tube.
    > >
    > >
    > > I looked at the end mills in McMaster-Carr catalog, and find that
    > > most of the ones less than 1/8" diameter are carbide. (=brittle?
    You
    > > break it you buy $$ another.) There are a couple in highspeed
    steel
    > > with TiN surface hardening. But I would still not know what to
    buy
    > > one, two three, four flute, straight flute spiral flute? There
    are
    > > also woodruff key cutters of the right thickness, and some small
    > > slitting saws. Some of you also suggested grinding tools (at high
    > > speed?) and a jeweller's saw. (is that a kind of blade?).
    > >
    > > I don't know how fast to run the tools for SS. Do you go in a
    little
    > > ways and then go along the length of the cut, and then a little
    > > deeper along the length, or do you go all the way through at one
    end,
    > > and then cut the length all the way through? With cutting oil?
    I'm
    > > more used to brass and to plastic.
    > >
    > > I do want a nice smooth, straight cut. I know the workpiece has
    to
    > > be held very rigid. I do have a lathe, an old Myford (not
    numerical
    > > by a long shot!). It has a nice smooth cross-slide, and I also
    have
    > > a vertical slide, and a v-groove holder and assorted dogs and
    clamps.
    > >
    > > -- best regards,
    > > Tracy
    > >
    > >
    >
    > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-22 18:52
    Thanks for all the good advice. I'll order a couple of cutters and
    try to mount the part to be worked on the lathe so that it will be
    rigid and not deform from the clamping pressure. The maximum speed
    of this lathe is 745rpm. We only have to do four of these as
    prototypes.

    I didn't know that laser could work on this relatively thick
    material. (0.029" wall), and I don't know the economies of it. I
    guess when we pay $500 for a solder-paste stencil for a surface mount
    board, they probably cut that thin stainless steel material on a
    laser, from the Gerber file?

    The reason we are cutting the slot, instead of using a magnet to
    sense the position, is that we need to restrict the travel and
    prevent rotation of the tubes. The screw projecting through the slot
    kills two birds with one stone (at least that is the idea), because
    it can also activate the detector switch when the slotted tube is at
    one end of its travel. There is a spring inside the outer tube that
    determines the activation force.

    -- best regards
    Tracy Allen
    electronically monitored ecosystems
    http://www.emesystems.com
    mailto:tracy@e...
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-22 19:07
    Hi John,

    I'm intrigued by this. Can you really cut material of this
    sort,.029" 304SS, on a laser? What is a "rotary"? If not rotary,
    what is it?

    -- Tracy


    >If all else fails, send me a foot or so of it (I need to practice too!) and
    >I'll cut you one on our laser. It isn't a rotary (which would be
    >preferred) but we could do what you are talking about. We call that
    >'Government' work. The stuff you don't pay for [noparse]:)[/noparse]
    >
    >-John
    >
    >
    >At 01:55 PM 5/20/2003 -0700, you wrote:
    >>I wonder if you guys who make robots and mechanical things might have
    >>any advice about this.
    >>
    >>I have a 2 inch long stainless steel tube, 5/8" o.d., 0.029" wall,
    >>and I need to cut a longitudinal slot in the wall. The slot has to
    >>be between 0.08" and 0.1" wide, and it has to be 0.6" long, starting
    >>0.25" from one end of the tube.
    >>
    >>I don't know what tooling would work best to cut a clean slot. side
    >>cutter? grinder? rotary tool? I have a lathe and a die grinder.
    >>
    >>The idea is that this tube will telescope into another tube, and a
    >>#52 machine screw will come through the outside tube into the slot
    >>and constrain the travel. There will be a detector switch at the end
    >>inside the slot that will be activated by the screw coming in from
    >>outside.
    >>
    >> -- best regards
    >> Tracy Allen
    >> electronically monitored ecosystems
    >> http://www.emesystems.com
    > > mailto:tracy@e...
    >>
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-22 19:49
    I was really surprised what they can do with laser cutting. We can often
    farm out a complex design and have it done quicker and much, much cheaper
    than if we did it with a mill. I'm not a laser expert, but our supplier
    can cut up to 1/4"? and using materials that would be a bugger using a mill
    (temper, stainless, etc.). If they had a rotatory table hooked up to their
    laser they could easily do spiral cuts in tube, etc. I'll let the experts
    fill in the details. A quick search on the web should show some cool stuff
    they can do. Most larger cities have a couple laser cutting shops. Does
    Parallax use laser to cut out their robot chassis? We often use 'puzzle
    piece joints' when we need to cut sections that are too large for the laser
    and the pieces fit together, well, like a puzzle.





    Hi John,

    I'm intrigued by this. Can you really cut material of this
    sort,.029" 304SS, on a laser? What is a "rotary"? If not rotary,
    what is it?

    -- Tracy
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-22 19:57
    Hi Tracy,

    At our facility we have several laser cutting machines, some of which
    are capable of cutting 304SS thicker than 0.200".
    We can even cut mild steel up to 0.750" thick.

    I'm not sure what John means by rotary laser.
    However, we do have a 5-axis laser that is capable of cutting
    irregular shaped materials including tubing.

    As to the economy of laser cutting...
    We charge about $135.00 per hour (setup, programming, and cutting
    time) for most jobs.I think the 5-axis laser is about $175.00 per hour.
    It can be economical for flat material because you can cut a lot of
    material in an hour, however the irregular shaped material can take
    much longer if each piece has to be set-up individually. It depends on
    the precision required on some jobs.

    Mike W.


    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Tracy Allen <tracy@e...> wrote:
    > Hi John,
    >
    > I'm intrigued by this. Can you really cut material of this
    > sort,.029" 304SS, on a laser? What is a "rotary"? If not rotary,
    > what is it?
    >
    > -- Tracy
    >
    >
    > >If all else fails, send me a foot or so of it (I need to practice
    too!) and
    > >I'll cut you one on our laser. It isn't a rotary (which would be
    > >preferred) but we could do what you are talking about. We call that
    > >'Government' work. The stuff you don't pay for [noparse]:)[/noparse]
    > >
    > >-John
    > >
    > >
    > >At 01:55 PM 5/20/2003 -0700, you wrote:
    > >>I wonder if you guys who make robots and mechanical things might have
    > >>any advice about this.
    > >>
    > >>I have a 2 inch long stainless steel tube, 5/8" o.d., 0.029" wall,
    > >>and I need to cut a longitudinal slot in the wall. The slot has to
    > >>be between 0.08" and 0.1" wide, and it has to be 0.6" long, starting
    > >>0.25" from one end of the tube.
    > >>
    > >>I don't know what tooling would work best to cut a clean slot. side
    > >>cutter? grinder? rotary tool? I have a lathe and a die grinder.
    > >>
    > >>The idea is that this tube will telescope into another tube, and a
    > >>#52 machine screw will come through the outside tube into the slot
    > >>and constrain the travel. There will be a detector switch at the end
    > >>inside the slot that will be activated by the screw coming in from
    > >>outside.
    > >>
    > >> -- best regards
    > >> Tracy Allen
    > >> electronically monitored ecosystems
    > >> http://www.emesystems.com
    > > > mailto:tracy@e...
    > >>
    > >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-22 20:33
    "I didn't know that laser could work on this relatively thick
    material. (0.029" wall), and I don't know the economies of it. I
    guess when we pay $500 for a solder-paste stencil for a surface mount
    board, they probably cut that thin stainless steel material on a
    laser, from the Gerber file?"


    We currently have CO2 lasers that will cut 1/2" Stainless steel (3000
    watts) and are soon to buy another that will cut 3/4" Stainless (5000
    watts)

    0.029 is easy! [noparse];)[/noparse]

    John
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-22 20:55
    Tracy,

    I didn't see this post before I put up the last one, but check this out:
    http://www.us.trumpf.com/31.tcl3050.html

    A 'rotary' is an additional axis that goes on a machine like this that
    looks kind of like a lathe, it turns the material, while the laser beam
    cuts from above, the rotary takes care of the rotational axis movement,
    and the laser moves in the other axis (2 axis cutting) there is a third
    axis, but that is only for keeping a predetermined distance away from
    the material. There are full 5 axis machines, those are used for stuff
    like trimming automotive panels after they are stamped (no, not basic
    stamp[noparse]:)[/noparse]

    Finally, something I know something about on this list! Off topic none
    the less! [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    -John


    Original Message
    From: Tracy Allen [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=o7X89vNIMWWpHetXwKjf9FMOF6HJ_HA2jejsBETnSrKxDigRb7i6fltmU-FAB4BvMvh_C_v9DC_lSkwLcg]tracy@e...[/url
    Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 1:08 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] tooling telescoping tube

    Hi John,

    I'm intrigued by this. Can you really cut material of this
    sort,.029" 304SS, on a laser? What is a "rotary"? If not rotary,
    what is it?

    -- Tracy


    >If all else fails, send me a foot or so of it (I need to practice too!)
    and
    >I'll cut you one on our laser. It isn't a rotary (which would be
    >preferred) but we could do what you are talking about. We call that
    >'Government' work. The stuff you don't pay for [noparse]:)[/noparse]
    >
    >-John
    >
    >
    >At 01:55 PM 5/20/2003 -0700, you wrote:
    >>I wonder if you guys who make robots and mechanical things might have
    >>any advice about this.
    >>
    >>I have a 2 inch long stainless steel tube, 5/8" o.d., 0.029" wall,
    >>and I need to cut a longitudinal slot in the wall. The slot has to
    >>be between 0.08" and 0.1" wide, and it has to be 0.6" long, starting
    >>0.25" from one end of the tube.
    >>
    >>I don't know what tooling would work best to cut a clean slot. side
    >>cutter? grinder? rotary tool? I have a lathe and a die grinder.
    >>
    >>The idea is that this tube will telescope into another tube, and a
    >>#52 machine screw will come through the outside tube into the slot
    >>and constrain the travel. There will be a detector switch at the end
    >>inside the slot that will be activated by the screw coming in from
    >>outside.
    >>
    >> -- best regards
    >> Tracy Allen
    >> electronically monitored ecosystems
    >> http://www.emesystems.com
    > > mailto:tracy@e...
    >>
    >

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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-23 02:44
    That is one scarry machine !

    12,000 inches per minute ?

    resolutions down to 0.001" or better ? man that feedback must be
    something to handle the PID on postioning from an encoder and moving
    parts.

    I have to assume it has more than a half dozen servo's moving things
    around.

    And YES, Tracy, this will cut your tube with precision you may not be
    able to measure. and, if you want a radius on the end of the slot,
    it could do that, a square end, or even the EME outline. darn nice
    machine.

    Dave



    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "John Walton" <john@l...> wrote:
    > Tracy,
    >
    > I didn't see this post before I put up the last one, but check this
    out:
    > http://www.us.trumpf.com/31.tcl3050.html
    >
    > A 'rotary' is an additional axis that goes on a machine like this
    that
    > looks kind of like a lathe, it turns the material, while the laser
    beam
    > cuts from above, the rotary takes care of the rotational axis
    movement,
    > and the laser moves in the other axis (2 axis cutting) there is a
    third
    > axis, but that is only for keeping a predetermined distance away
    from
    > the material. There are full 5 axis machines, those are used for
    stuff
    > like trimming automotive panels after they are stamped (no, not
    basic
    > stamp[noparse]:)[/noparse]
    >
    > Finally, something I know something about on this list! Off topic
    none
    > the less! [noparse]:)[/noparse]
    >
    > -John
    >
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: Tracy Allen [noparse][[/noparse]mailto:tracy@e...]
    > Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 1:08 PM
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] tooling telescoping tube
    >
    > Hi John,
    >
    > I'm intrigued by this. Can you really cut material of this
    > sort,.029" 304SS, on a laser? What is a "rotary"? If not rotary,
    > what is it?
    >
    > -- Tracy
    >
    >
    > >If all else fails, send me a foot or so of it (I need to practice
    too!)
    > and
    > >I'll cut you one on our laser. It isn't a rotary (which would be
    > >preferred) but we could do what you are talking about. We call
    that
    > >'Government' work. The stuff you don't pay for [noparse]:)[/noparse]
    > >
    > >-John
    > >
    > >
    > >At 01:55 PM 5/20/2003 -0700, you wrote:
    > >>I wonder if you guys who make robots and mechanical things might
    have
    > >>any advice about this.
    > >>
    > >>I have a 2 inch long stainless steel tube, 5/8" o.d., 0.029" wall,
    > >>and I need to cut a longitudinal slot in the wall. The slot has
    to
    > >>be between 0.08" and 0.1" wide, and it has to be 0.6" long,
    starting
    > >>0.25" from one end of the tube.
    > >>
    > >>I don't know what tooling would work best to cut a clean slot.
    side
    > >>cutter? grinder? rotary tool? I have a lathe and a die grinder.
    > >>
    > >>The idea is that this tube will telescope into another tube, and a
    > >>#52 machine screw will come through the outside tube into the slot
    > >>and constrain the travel. There will be a detector switch at the
    end
    > >>inside the slot that will be activated by the screw coming in from
    > >>outside.
    > >>
    > >> -- best regards
    > >> Tracy Allen
    > >> electronically monitored ecosystems
    > >> http://www.emesystems.com
    > > > mailto:tracy@e...
    > >>
    > >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
    Subject
    > and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-23 02:56
    Tracy,

    I had some aluminum parts cut by laser, wound up to be around $2.00
    to $3.00 each in lots of 25, and that included the sheets, and
    bending !

    the parts were around 8" long, by 3" by 0.08" thick.

    once you get your prototype, look into having them made. I assumed
    you were doing one for your home telescope with CCD and all that
    stuff.


    Dave



    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Tracy Allen <tracy@e...> wrote:
    > Thanks for all the good advice. I'll order a couple of cutters and
    > try to mount the part to be worked on the lathe so that it will be
    > rigid and not deform from the clamping pressure. The maximum speed
    > of this lathe is 745rpm. We only have to do four of these as
    > prototypes.
    >
    > I didn't know that laser could work on this relatively thick
    > material. (0.029" wall), and I don't know the economies of it. I
    > guess when we pay $500 for a solder-paste stencil for a surface
    mount
    > board, they probably cut that thin stainless steel material on a
    > laser, from the Gerber file?
    >
    > The reason we are cutting the slot, instead of using a magnet to
    > sense the position, is that we need to restrict the travel and
    > prevent rotation of the tubes. The screw projecting through the
    slot
    > kills two birds with one stone (at least that is the idea), because
    > it can also activate the detector switch when the slotted tube is
    at
    > one end of its travel. There is a spring inside the outer tube
    that
    > determines the activation force.
    >
    > -- best regards
    > Tracy Allen
    > electronically monitored ecosystems
    > http://www.emesystems.com
    > mailto:tracy@e...
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-23 06:04
    At 01:44 AM 5/23/2003 +0000, you wrote:
    >That is one scarry machine !
    >
    >12,000 inches per minute ?

    Sounds scary, you should see it, unbelievable.

    (This thread is off topic, so I'll shut up after this post unless someone
    asks something specific)

    -John
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-24 17:10
    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "watsoneng" <mikew@w...> wrote:
    > Hi Tracy,
    >
    > At our facility we have several laser cutting machines, some of
    which
    > are capable of cutting 304SS thicker than 0.200".
    > We can even cut mild steel up to 0.750" thick.
    >
    > I'm not sure what John means by rotary laser.
    > However, we do have a 5-axis laser that is capable of cutting
    > irregular shaped materials including tubing.


    Rotary is either that the cutter can rotate or that the part can
    rotate.

    but if you already have a 5 axis, you have that capability.


    prices seem about right. $175 an hour plus metal. and since you
    guys buy in bulk, it cost me less to have parts made than to buy the
    metal !

    Dave






    >
    > As to the economy of laser cutting...
    > We charge about $135.00 per hour (setup, programming, and cutting
    > time) for most jobs.I think the 5-axis laser is about $175.00 per
    hour.
    > It can be economical for flat material because you can cut a lot of
    > material in an hour, however the irregular shaped material can take
    > much longer if each piece has to be set-up individually. It depends
    on
    > the precision required on some jobs.
    >
    > Mike W.
    >
    >
    > --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Tracy Allen <tracy@e...> wrote:
    > > Hi John,
    > >
    > > I'm intrigued by this. Can you really cut material of this
    > > sort,.029" 304SS, on a laser? What is a "rotary"? If not
    rotary,
    > > what is it?
    > >
    > > -- Tracy
    > >
    > >
    > > >If all else fails, send me a foot or so of it (I need to practice
    > too!) and
    > > >I'll cut you one on our laser. It isn't a rotary (which would be
    > > >preferred) but we could do what you are talking about. We call
    that
    > > >'Government' work. The stuff you don't pay for [noparse]:)[/noparse]
    > > >
    > > >-John
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >At 01:55 PM 5/20/2003 -0700, you wrote:
    > > >>I wonder if you guys who make robots and mechanical things
    might have
    > > >>any advice about this.
    > > >>
    > > >>I have a 2 inch long stainless steel tube, 5/8" o.d., 0.029"
    wall,
    > > >>and I need to cut a longitudinal slot in the wall. The slot
    has to
    > > >>be between 0.08" and 0.1" wide, and it has to be 0.6" long,
    starting
    > > >>0.25" from one end of the tube.
    > > >>
    > > >>I don't know what tooling would work best to cut a clean slot.
    side
    > > >>cutter? grinder? rotary tool? I have a lathe and a die
    grinder.
    > > >>
    > > >>The idea is that this tube will telescope into another tube,
    and a
    > > >>#52 machine screw will come through the outside tube into the
    slot
    > > >>and constrain the travel. There will be a detector switch at
    the end
    > > >>inside the slot that will be activated by the screw coming in
    from
    > > >>outside.
    > > >>
    > > >> -- best regards
    > > >> Tracy Allen
    > > >> electronically monitored ecosystems
    > > >> http://www.emesystems.com
    > > > > mailto:tracy@e...
    > > >>
    > > >
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