memory expansion
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the other day i was reading some FAQ documentation on the parallax
site. I found two things on memory expansion one said data memory
expansion was possible but program memory was not. What is the
difference, does anybody know? is it possible to hook up a drive of
some sort (hard drive, cd drive, especially a cd type drive) up to a
stamp to store code that can be used/processed by the chip?
site. I found two things on memory expansion one said data memory
expansion was possible but program memory was not. What is the
difference, does anybody know? is it possible to hook up a drive of
some sort (hard drive, cd drive, especially a cd type drive) up to a
stamp to store code that can be used/processed by the chip?
Comments
Original Message
From: "flyfatmanfly2000" <flyfatmanfly2000@y...>
| the other day i was reading some FAQ documentation on the parallax
| site. I found two things on memory expansion one said data memory
| expansion was possible but program memory was not. What is the
| difference, does anybody know? is it possible to hook up a drive of
| some sort (hard drive, cd drive, especially a cd type drive) up to a
| stamp to store code that can be used/processed by the chip?
Nope... There's no way to expand the program memory. What you see is what
you got...
- Robert
though. Basically your stamp program would be an interpreter program and
you'd store program code on an external memory device. Pull in the opcodes
and do the voodoo magic on it.
The stamp itself is really a PIC microcontroller doing what I describe. It's
program is a PBasic interpreter and it pulls the code from external eeprom
for execution. This is why the stamp is slower than other controllers.If you
are capable of writing an interpreter that'd run on a stamp then you'd most
likely use a pic or avr controller instead and wouldn't need the stamp.
My 'lectronic Newb site http://members.shaw.ca/pmeloy/
Original Message
From: "flyfatmanfly2000" <flyfatmanfly2000@y...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 4:17 PM
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] memory expansion
> the other day i was reading some FAQ documentation on the parallax
> site. I found two things on memory expansion one said data memory
> expansion was possible but program memory was not. What is the
> difference, does anybody know? is it possible to hook up a drive of
> some sort (hard drive, cd drive, especially a cd type drive) up to a
> stamp to store code that can be used/processed by the chip?
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
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> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
using the SEROUT/SERIN commands. (Note external 8-pin 8K to 32K
EEPROM also exist)
The BasicMicro 'Atom' is pin-compatible with the Stamp, and has 368
bytes of RAM. Their Beta 'Atom Pro' has 2000 bytes of RAM -- but
their manual needs revision (will be done soon).
The Stamp itself uses 'Registers' for RAM, and the Stamp PBasic
only 'knows' about that RAM, so it is not internally expandable.
AllanL
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Pat M <pmeloy@s...> wrote:
> Well, strictly speaking, yes, it is possible. Highly doubtful you'd
want to
> though. Basically your stamp program would be an interpreter
program and
> you'd store program code on an external memory device. Pull in the
opcodes
> and do the voodoo magic on it.
>
> The stamp itself is really a PIC microcontroller doing what I
describe. It's
> program is a PBasic interpreter and it pulls the code from external
eeprom
> for execution. This is why the stamp is slower than other
controllers.If you
> are capable of writing an interpreter that'd run on a stamp then
you'd most
> likely use a pic or avr controller instead and wouldn't need the
stamp.
>
> My 'lectronic Newb site http://members.shaw.ca/pmeloy/
>
Original Message
> From: "flyfatmanfly2000" <flyfatmanfly2000@y...>
> To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 4:17 PM
> Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] memory expansion
>
>
> > the other day i was reading some FAQ documentation on the parallax
> > site. I found two things on memory expansion one said data memory
> > expansion was possible but program memory was not. What is the
> > difference, does anybody know? is it possible to hook up a drive
of
> > some sort (hard drive, cd drive, especially a cd type drive) up
to a
> > stamp to store code that can be used/processed by the chip?
> >
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
Subject and
> Body of the message will be ignored.
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
Original Message
From: "Pat M" <pmeloy@s...>
| Well, strictly speaking, yes, it is possible. Highly doubtful you'd want
to
| though. Basically your stamp program would be an interpreter program and
| you'd store program code on an external memory device. Pull in the opcodes
| and do the voodoo magic on it.
|
| The stamp itself is really a PIC microcontroller doing what I describe.
It's
| program is a PBasic interpreter and it pulls the code from external eeprom
| for execution. This is why the stamp is slower than other controllers.If
you
| are capable of writing an interpreter that'd run on a stamp then you'd
most
| likely use a pic or avr controller instead and wouldn't need the stamp.
|
| My 'lectronic Newb site http://members.shaw.ca/pmeloy/
I hadn't thought of that!
As you say, though, you may as well get yourself a PIC and have it interpret
PBasic from a huge external EEPROM, as try to do it with a Stamp. I'm not
sure you could even use the whole PBasic instruction set with a Stamp-run
interpreter, simply because of the limited memory!
- Robert
Parallax has done all the crufty hacking
with getting a Development System, small
Operating System, Compiler, EEPROM Burner,
into a 24 pin module. They've solved all
the problems of DC power, Brown-outs,
WatchDog Timers, noise on power for you.
They've even incorporated a 232 Tx/Rx
driver set for the programming port. They've
developed PBasic, a small p-coded basic to
make the best use of limited resources.
And all you have to do is fork over your
$50 or so to have all of this at your
disposal in a few days. Yes, you could
do ALL of this yourself with off-the-shelf
PIC components -- but it wouldn't cost $50,
more like $2,000, and you wouldn't have it
in a few days. BTW, Parallax DOES have the
SX processor which may do some of what you
want in a faster package, in assembly code.
Again, not $50.00, but more like $250.00
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Ussery" <uavscience@f...>
wrote:
>
>
Original Message
> From: "Pat M" <pmeloy@s...>
> | Well, strictly speaking, yes, it is possible. Highly doubtful
you'd want
> to
> | though. Basically your stamp program would be an interpreter
program and
> | you'd store program code on an external memory device. Pull in
the opcodes
> | and do the voodoo magic on it.
> |
> | The stamp itself is really a PIC microcontroller doing what I
describe.
> It's
> | program is a PBasic interpreter and it pulls the code from
external eeprom
> | for execution. This is why the stamp is slower than other
controllers.If
> you
> | are capable of writing an interpreter that'd run on a stamp then
you'd
> most
> | likely use a pic or avr controller instead and wouldn't need the
stamp.
> |
> | My 'lectronic Newb site http://members.shaw.ca/pmeloy/
>
> I hadn't thought of that!
> As you say, though, you may as well get yourself a PIC and have it
interpret
> PBasic from a huge external EEPROM, as try to do it with a Stamp.
I'm not
> sure you could even use the whole PBasic instruction set with a
Stamp-run
> interpreter, simply because of the limited memory!
>
> - Robert
for free or a small fee, but you still have to build up some support
circuitry and tweak stuff to do things a Stamp will do out of the box. And
there is still the matter of development time when you need to use an AVR
not supported by the higher languages.
I have spent many hours recently messing with a Tiny15 to make a battery
monitor and self-calibrating line-follower module that will steer a servo.
Writing in Assembler, with minimal syntax checking and no debugging tools
gets very interesting, even on simple projects.
On the other hand, using a BS2SX, it took only a couple of hours to get my
big robot to dead-reckon the hallways on the Trinity Firefighting contest,
and most of the time was spent tweaking the distance values to make accurate
movements. And this unoptimized code took maybe 1/3 of one program segment.
There may be some limitations to a Stamp, but chances are someone has a
work-around and the resources, support and documentation available for free
greatly offset both this and the cost of the product.
Original Message
> Well, this is the value of the Stamp.
> Parallax has done all the crufty hacking
> with getting a Development System, small
> Operating System, Compiler, EEPROM Burner,
> into a 24 pin module. They've solved all
> the problems of DC power, Brown-outs,
> WatchDog Timers, noise on power for you.
> They've even incorporated a 232 Tx/Rx
> driver set for the programming port. They've
> developed PBasic, a small p-coded basic to
> make the best use of limited resources.
>
> And all you have to do is fork over your
> $50 or so to have all of this at your
> disposal in a few days. Yes, you could
> do ALL of this yourself with off-the-shelf
> PIC components -- but it wouldn't cost $50,
> more like $2,000, and you wouldn't have it
> in a few days. BTW, Parallax DOES have the
> SX processor which may do some of what you
> want in a faster package, in assembly code.
> Again, not $50.00, but more like $250.00
Original Message
From: "Allan Lane" <allan.lane@h...>
| Well, this is the value of the Stamp.
| Parallax has done all the crufty hacking
| with getting a Development System, small
| Operating System, Compiler, EEPROM Burner,
| into a 24 pin module. They've solved all
| the problems of DC power, Brown-outs,
| WatchDog Timers, noise on power for you.
| They've even incorporated a 232 Tx/Rx
| driver set for the programming port. They've
| developed PBasic, a small p-coded basic to
| make the best use of limited resources.
|
| And all you have to do is fork over your
| $50 or so to have all of this at your
| disposal in a few days. Yes, you could
| do ALL of this yourself with off-the-shelf
| PIC components -- but it wouldn't cost $50,
| more like $2,000, and you wouldn't have it
| in a few days. BTW, Parallax DOES have the
| SX processor which may do some of what you
| want in a faster package, in assembly code.
| Again, not $50.00, but more like $250.00
I totally agree! I'm not disputing any of this. I simply meant that, if the
Stamp won't fit the bill (because of limited speed, memory, whatever), but
you still want the ease of use, easy integration, etc. of the Stamp, you
could make your own Stamp-like uP pretty easily.
BTW, aren't the watchdog timer and brownout part of the SX uP (at least on
the BS2SX)?
Don't get the impression that I don't like the Stamps, and don't appreciate
what Parallax has done! I just know the limitations of the Stamps.
Please note that many of the limitations I've encountered with the Stamp are
self-induced, either by laziness or lack of skill. I'm sure that someone
like the revered Tracy Allen could find a way around nearly any of them! [noparse]:o[/noparse])
- Robert
or the faint of heart. Had to make my own buffered programming cable and add
my own Max232 transciever for the RS232 connection. Supply my own crystal,
purchase Bascom AVR basic since I'm C-o-phobic (instead of the free stamp
basic). Even then I've done things like pulled my hair out for a week
wondering why my $300 graphic LCD wouldn't work and it turns out to be a
fuse setting (JTAG is enabled by default on the Mega32). Been at this
project for 6 months....
Stamp=Tricycle with training wheels (quintcycle?)
AVR=Flying a Harrier AV8B
Pic=Harrier but blindfolded!
My original point still stands though, if you're capable of writing your own
interpreter for a microcontroller, you wouldn't be using a stamp for it.
Then again, I doubt that's a market that Parallax is aiming at!
My 'lectronic Newb site http://members.shaw.ca/pmeloy/
Original Message
From: "Rodent" <daweasel@s...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: memory expansion
> You can get into AVR's cheaper, and there are even Basic compilers
available
> for free or a small fee, but you still have to build up some support
> circuitry and tweak stuff to do things a Stamp will do out of the box. And
> there is still the matter of development time when you need to use an AVR
> not supported by the higher languages.
From: "Pat M" <pmeloy@
-snip-
> Stamp=Tricycle with training wheels (quintcycle?)
> AVR=Flying a Harrier AV8B
> Pic=Harrier but blindfolded!
Well put, but I'd like to add that the stamp is an excellent design and
debugging platform to develop with. We use the BS1 for many
small products, and the BS2-i for things that require industrial temp range, and
have used the BS2P-40 for large scale products. The
turn around time from concept to prototype is of greater savings labor hour$
wise than the price difference. Pics are cost efficient
only if you ignore the development time or are looking at producing thousands of
units. Many of our products sell a hundred or less
per year, and the stamp platform makes customization as simple as e-mailing a
flash update.
KF4HAZ - Lonnie