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OT - Powering via Batteries — Parallax Forums

OT - Powering via Batteries

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2003-03-26 18:47 in General Discussion
I have a robot that I am working with that needs a variety of different
voltages to power the different subsystems.
Onboard are a pair of 12v SLAs that can deliver all the current I need for
the two drive motors and the four other operational motors on the robot at
12v.
I also have a bunch of regulated power supplies that I want to drive at 24v
to produce the needed 12v, 9v, and 6v lines for the logic, servos and
communications gear.
To further complicate matters, I have several 12v, relatively high current
accessories that need to be directly coupled to the batteries individually
(rather than come through the regulators).
Here is my dilemma (and I'm sure there is an easy solution, but I am an
electronics idiot savant - I can work with the detail stuff but the basics
elude me):
How do I distribute the loads?
I need to have each of the batteries available to power different parts of
the robot directly AND I need to hook them up in series to produce the 24v
for the regulated supplies.
Obviously, if a device that is using the "top" cell of the series shares a
ground with a device that uses the whole stack, there will be trouble.
Is there something that can be done simply with diodes that will separate
the "center tap" of the battery stack but still support the current loads?

Sorry for the use of bandwidth and thanks in advance for any of your helpful
replies!

---

Jeff Abrams
jeff@m...

TURBOCHARGED & INTERCOOLED 2.5 liter 1993 Mazda MX-3 GS
TURBOCHARGED & INTERCOOLED 1.8 liter 1997 Mazda MX-5 Miata
http://www.mazdamaniac.com

As I bit into the nectarine, it had a crisp juiciness about it that was very
pleasurable - until I realized it wasn't a nectarine at all, but A HUMAN
HEAD!!

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-03-26 07:19
    Hi,
    Don't use the "centre tap" of the cells as "ground" but, the negative
    terminal of the bottom cell. This will give you +12 & + 24 referenced to
    the "ground" terminal. +6 +9 etc, can be regulated from the + 12 point.
    If you need any negative (-) supplies (referenced to gnd), (at modest
    currents) there are easy ways to generate them as well.

    GND +12 +24
    (-)----(+)--(-)
    (+)
    BATT1 LINK BATT2

    Rob

    Original Message
    From: Jeff Abrams [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=DQWOpu7shHvrPdmBgZA88TD6sjyKRfQkwvs56GB8pDUMMedpg8O7d3j3bls4vWdba33fNyVNAZtmrBTN4d4E]clavier@b...[/url
    Sent: 26 March 2003 04:22
    To: Basicstamps@Yahoogroups. Com
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] OT - Powering via Batteries

    I have a robot that I am working with that needs a variety of different
    voltages to power the different subsystems.
    Onboard are a pair of 12v SLAs that can deliver all the current I need
    for
    the two drive motors and the four other operational motors on the robot
    at
    12v.
    I also have a bunch of regulated power supplies that I want to drive at
    24v
    to produce the needed 12v, 9v, and 6v lines for the logic, servos and
    communications gear.
    To further complicate matters, I have several 12v, relatively high
    current
    accessories that need to be directly coupled to the batteries
    individually
    (rather than come through the regulators).
    Here is my dilemma (and I'm sure there is an easy solution, but I am an
    electronics idiot savant - I can work with the detail stuff but the
    basics
    elude me):
    How do I distribute the loads?
    I need to have each of the batteries available to power different parts
    of
    the robot directly AND I need to hook them up in series to produce the
    24v
    for the regulated supplies.
    Obviously, if a device that is using the "top" cell of the series shares
    a
    ground with a device that uses the whole stack, there will be trouble.
    Is there something that can be done simply with diodes that will
    separate
    the "center tap" of the battery stack but still support the current
    loads?

    Sorry for the use of bandwidth and thanks in advance for any of your
    helpful
    replies!

    ---

    Jeff Abrams
    jeff@m...

    TURBOCHARGED & INTERCOOLED 2.5 liter 1993 Mazda MX-3 GS
    TURBOCHARGED & INTERCOOLED 1.8 liter 1997 Mazda MX-5 Miata
    http://www.mazdamaniac.com

    As I bit into the nectarine, it had a crisp juiciness about it that was
    very
    pleasurable - until I realized it wasn't a nectarine at all, but A HUMAN
    HEAD!!




    To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-03-26 07:28
    But this would mean that all of my 12v sources would be pulling from the
    bottom cell.
    I want to run one motor on one cell and the other motor on the other cell.
    However, both motors may end up having a common ground because of the motor
    controller's connection to the PCM receiver. The PCM receiver is pulling
    power from a regulator that is tapped across BOTH batteries.

    ---

    Jeff Abrams
    jeff@m...

    TURBOCHARGED & INTERCOOLED 2.5 liter 1993 Mazda MX-3 GS
    TURBOCHARGED & INTERCOOLED 1.8 liter 1997 Mazda MX-5 Miata
    http://www.mazdamaniac.com


    I think one way the cops could make money would be to
    hold a murder weapons sale. Many people could really use used ice picks.




    Original Message
    From: Rob [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=tO-ath5DIv4f8MGI0kfWrIUzBbuCcEVqxmjiai15qzhdVlOF-6rLw9QMyD17DlGPtLXefO4AQflUcI9S5CtVFNEN2A]robbed666@b...[/url
    Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 2:19 AM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] OT - Powering via Batteries


    Hi,
    Don't use the "centre tap" of the cells as "ground" but, the negative
    terminal of the bottom cell. This will give you +12 & + 24 referenced to
    the "ground" terminal. +6 +9 etc, can be regulated from the + 12 point.
    If you need any negative (-) supplies (referenced to gnd), (at modest
    currents) there are easy ways to generate them as well.

    GND +12 +24
    (-)----(+)--(-)
    (+)
    BATT1 LINK BATT2

    Rob

    Original Message
    From: Jeff Abrams [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=DjaO_10kitDQPaEfP9l199Cn4cm635zHRKxxRukFkYgt8roqupGajxV0yQVMAhRssOzDg4X7VYLjfNAEveFI]clavier@b...[/url
    Sent: 26 March 2003 04:22
    To: Basicstamps@Yahoogroups. Com
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] OT - Powering via Batteries

    I have a robot that I am working with that needs a variety of different
    voltages to power the different subsystems.
    Onboard are a pair of 12v SLAs that can deliver all the current I need
    for
    the two drive motors and the four other operational motors on the robot
    at
    12v.
    I also have a bunch of regulated power supplies that I want to drive at
    24v
    to produce the needed 12v, 9v, and 6v lines for the logic, servos and
    communications gear.
    To further complicate matters, I have several 12v, relatively high
    current
    accessories that need to be directly coupled to the batteries
    individually
    (rather than come through the regulators).
    Here is my dilemma (and I'm sure there is an easy solution, but I am an
    electronics idiot savant - I can work with the detail stuff but the
    basics
    elude me):
    How do I distribute the loads?
    I need to have each of the batteries available to power different parts
    of
    the robot directly AND I need to hook them up in series to produce the
    24v
    for the regulated supplies.
    Obviously, if a device that is using the "top" cell of the series shares
    a
    ground with a device that uses the whole stack, there will be trouble.
    Is there something that can be done simply with diodes that will
    separate
    the "center tap" of the battery stack but still support the current
    loads?

    Sorry for the use of bandwidth and thanks in advance for any of your
    helpful
    replies!

    ---

    Jeff Abrams
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-03-26 18:17
    Ok Jeff,

    Can you give us some idea of what current level you require from each
    supply volt you need? A receiver should only be a few 100mA's MAX,
    miniature DC-DC converters are cheap (up to a few Watts), and some only
    the size of a DIL package. Using isolated DC-DC converters, you can
    reference multiple voltage sources, both positive and negative to a
    common ground. Am I right in assuming you main current draw will be by
    the 12 motors, and the 24 volt current requirement is small? Just list
    the voltages and what you intend to connect to them. A DC-DC converter
    does appear to be your receiver (24 volt?) answer. In fact using
    isolated DC-DC converters the batteries can be left to "float" and the
    ground used for logic and control only. Are you using "H" bridges to
    drive the motors ?.

    Rob




    Original Message
    From: Jeff Abrams [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=gJfk7QeuVX_TM9KCmQTClgqUjlG1kuyXhIhqtCHV00rbNSLGj0MbXHu8VYcP5SeAAVQils2M3rpO60kyNv6DmHom2Q]clavier@b...[/url
    Sent: 26 March 2003 07:28
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] OT - Powering via Batteries

    But this would mean that all of my 12v sources would be pulling from the
    bottom cell.
    I want to run one motor on one cell and the other motor on the other
    cell.
    However, both motors may end up having a common ground because of the
    motor
    controller's connection to the PCM receiver. The PCM receiver is pulling
    power from a regulator that is tapped across BOTH batteries.

    ---

    Jeff Abrams
    jeff@m...

    TURBOCHARGED & INTERCOOLED 2.5 liter 1993 Mazda MX-3 GS
    TURBOCHARGED & INTERCOOLED 1.8 liter 1997 Mazda MX-5 Miata
    http://www.mazdamaniac.com


    I think one way the cops could make money would be to
    hold a murder weapons sale. Many people could really use used ice picks.




    Original Message
    From: Rob [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=nKe8BS46WNBm-12TdAtzpJXWc1_z6TBU4ie8id4FlgmNTyAjoF3AfAJ_cBgK9DvyAuzT0MCZj0s8a1bOxT-kpGCz]robbed666@b...[/url
    Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 2:19 AM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] OT - Powering via Batteries


    Hi,
    Don't use the "centre tap" of the cells as "ground" but, the negative
    terminal of the bottom cell. This will give you +12 & + 24 referenced to
    the "ground" terminal. +6 +9 etc, can be regulated from the + 12 point.
    If you need any negative (-) supplies (referenced to gnd), (at modest
    currents) there are easy ways to generate them as well.

    GND +12 +24
    (-)----(+)--(-)
    (+)
    BATT1 LINK BATT2

    Rob

    Original Message
    From: Jeff Abrams [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=gJfk7QeuVX_TM9KCmQTClgqUjlG1kuyXhIhqtCHV00rbNSLGj0MbXHu8VYcP5SeAAVQils2M3rpO60kyNv6DmHom2Q]clavier@b...[/url
    Sent: 26 March 2003 04:22
    To: Basicstamps@Yahoogroups. Com
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] OT - Powering via Batteries

    I have a robot that I am working with that needs a variety of different
    voltages to power the different subsystems.
    Onboard are a pair of 12v SLAs that can deliver all the current I need
    for
    the two drive motors and the four other operational motors on the robot
    at
    12v.
    I also have a bunch of regulated power supplies that I want to drive at
    24v
    to produce the needed 12v, 9v, and 6v lines for the logic, servos and
    communications gear.
    To further complicate matters, I have several 12v, relatively high
    current
    accessories that need to be directly coupled to the batteries
    individually
    (rather than come through the regulators).
    Here is my dilemma (and I'm sure there is an easy solution, but I am an
    electronics idiot savant - I can work with the detail stuff but the
    basics
    elude me):
    How do I distribute the loads?
    I need to have each of the batteries available to power different parts
    of
    the robot directly AND I need to hook them up in series to produce the
    24v
    for the regulated supplies.
    Obviously, if a device that is using the "top" cell of the series shares
    a
    ground with a device that uses the whole stack, there will be trouble.
    Is there something that can be done simply with diodes that will
    separate
    the "center tap" of the battery stack but still support the current
    loads?

    Sorry for the use of bandwidth and thanks in advance for any of your
    helpful
    replies!

    ---

    Jeff Abrams


    To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
    and Body of the message will be ignored.


    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-03-26 18:47
    I have motor controllers on each of the two batteries powering the two main
    motors. They max out at 30A, but typically I won't be pulling more than
    15A - 20A. I have two more motors driving the arms that are wired the same
    way and one more that turns the head. Up and down on the head is via servo.
    I need to pull about 6A of regulated 12v, 3A of regulated 9v and less than
    1A of regulated 6V.
    I also need to draw power directly from the two batteries individually to
    power some high current items like a TV/VGA monitor, a Dell laptop and a
    power amplifier as well as a 1W video amp and transmitter.
    The problem is that some of the items powered by the "raw" batteries will be
    in common contact with the regulated items, effectively shorting the bottom
    cell.

    For those of you that are interested in the thing as a whole, you can look
    here:
    http://www.washingtontalent.com/sprockit/index.shtml
    I build those things. Don't laugh.
    I was running the batteries in parallel, but I found that the 12V
    electronics were too sensitive to voltage drop and discharge. This gave
    diminished performance as the batteries reached the end of their charge.
    I want to run the batteries in series to get every last drop out of them
    before the robot goes blind/deaf/mute.

    ---

    Jeff Abrams
    jeff@m...

    TURBOCHARGED & INTERCOOLED 2.5 liter 1993 Mazda MX-3 GS
    TURBOCHARGED & INTERCOOLED 1.8 liter 1997 Mazda MX-5 Miata
    http://www.mazdamaniac.com


    If they ever come up with a swashbuckling School, I think one of the
    courses should be Laughing, Then Jumping Off Something.




    Original Message
    From: Rob [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=dYFUFS15PzsYBdsDO3BFkhXbxkOQH3fr5T345iX7ZNAjfFkfkP1YVTBt6WpUP0jBPdOjuWYZvc6kO7syXOE]robbed666@b...[/url
    Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 1:17 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] OT - Powering via Batteries


    Ok Jeff,

    Can you give us some idea of what current level you require from each
    supply volt you need? A receiver should only be a few 100mA's MAX,
    miniature DC-DC converters are cheap (up to a few Watts), and some only
    the size of a DIL package. Using isolated DC-DC converters, you can
    reference multiple voltage sources, both positive and negative to a
    common ground. Am I right in assuming you main current draw will be by
    the 12 motors, and the 24 volt current requirement is small? Just list
    the voltages and what you intend to connect to them. A DC-DC converter
    does appear to be your receiver (24 volt?) answer. In fact using
    isolated DC-DC converters the batteries can be left to "float" and the
    ground used for logic and control only. Are you using "H" bridges to
    drive the motors ?.

    Rob



    Original Message
    From: Jeff Abrams [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=z3_BusdnlufSHz6whYlemaGIqa1UDlWBWnXpETsUwPaqromA_50JAspDyrL5QXwEJ0xLVa8ywQXruOyP6vUqeA]clavier@b...[/url
    Sent: 26 March 2003 04:22
    To: Basicstamps@Yahoogroups. Com
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] OT - Powering via Batteries

    I have a robot that I am working with that needs a variety of different
    voltages to power the different subsystems.
    Onboard are a pair of 12v SLAs that can deliver all the current I need
    for
    the two drive motors and the four other operational motors on the robot
    at
    12v.
    I also have a bunch of regulated power supplies that I want to drive at
    24v
    to produce the needed 12v, 9v, and 6v lines for the logic, servos and
    communications gear.
    To further complicate matters, I have several 12v, relatively high
    current
    accessories that need to be directly coupled to the batteries
    individually
    (rather than come through the regulators).
    Here is my dilemma (and I'm sure there is an easy solution, but I am an
    electronics idiot savant - I can work with the detail stuff but the
    basics
    elude me):
    How do I distribute the loads?
    I need to have each of the batteries available to power different parts
    of
    the robot directly AND I need to hook them up in series to produce the
    24v
    for the regulated supplies.
    Obviously, if a device that is using the "top" cell of the series shares
    a
    ground with a device that uses the whole stack, there will be trouble.
    Is there something that can be done simply with diodes that will
    separate
    the "center tap" of the battery stack but still support the current
    loads?

    Sorry for the use of bandwidth and thanks in advance for any of your
    helpful
    replies!

    ---

    Jeff Abrams
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