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When Lightning Strikes — Parallax Forums

When Lightning Strikes

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2003-02-19 16:42 in General Discussion
I like tall trees. I like messing around with Stamps, weather sensors,
and video cameras. I also like to climb tall trees. But I don't care
for lightning striking tall trees that may happen to be equipped with
previously mentioned electronics. Do you know where I'm going with this?


I live in NH and we had some really good thunder storms last summer.
Well, in July I lost a CCD video camera, windcups, wind speed readout and
a 56K modem due to a lightning strike. I'm trying to prepare myself
ahead of time for next summer but am unsure as to how to best protect the
equipment, namely the Stamp, CCD camera and the One Wire sensors in the
Weather Station.

The sensors are located at the top of an Eastern White Pine at about 100
feet (30 meters) off the forest floor. The area is heavily wooded with
other pines, maples and oaks. My "sensor tree" is slightly taller than
the surrounding trees. I recently ran a length of #6 AWG copper wire
from ground to the peak and have two 8 foot (2.5M) grounding rods ready
to be hammered into the ground. The sensor data travels in shielded
twisted pair cable and RG-6 coax for the video signal. Both of these
cables run inside a 1” (25mm) plastic conduit the length of the tree.
I’m open to suggestions and comments on protecting against lightning
strikes. Some of my questions are:
Is it ok to tape the 6AWG grounding wire to the outside of the 1” plastic
conduit or is a separation recommended? (Taping it to the plastic
conduit is the easiest method)
Should the electronics at the top of the tree be housed in a metal
enclosure? (I currently have a plastic junction box in place.)
Should the grounding wire run up past the electronics to try to
“intercept” the lightning before it hits the electronics

Any help is appreciated,
Chris Dundorf

[noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-02-18 18:08
    I'm no expert but my train of thought would be to run the ground wires on a
    nearby sacrificial tree in an effort to find an easier earth for the
    lightning.

    Original Message
    From: Christopher Dundorf [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=neFrJxcF_oPl3K8TZyDcOHmebLB-AT2IRzBL2rfONDqlPs9MIbP-KS6dPLTID_uEIQnPMfTxlPN3Rpk]cdundorf@j...[/url
    Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 11:20 AM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] When Lightning Strikes

    I like tall trees. I like messing around with Stamps, weather sensors,
    and video cameras. I also like to climb tall trees. But I don't care
    for lightning striking tall trees that may happen to be equipped with
    previously mentioned electronics. Do you know where I'm going with this?


    I live in NH and we had some really good thunder storms last summer.
    Well, in July I lost a CCD video camera, windcups, wind speed readout and
    a 56K modem due to a lightning strike. I'm trying to prepare myself
    ahead of time for next summer but am unsure as to how to best protect the
    equipment, namely the Stamp, CCD camera and the One Wire sensors in the
    Weather Station.

    The sensors are located at the top of an Eastern White Pine at about 100
    feet (30 meters) off the forest floor. The area is heavily wooded with
    other pines, maples and oaks. My "sensor tree" is slightly taller than
    the surrounding trees. I recently ran a length of #6 AWG copper wire
    from ground to the peak and have two 8 foot (2.5M) grounding rods ready
    to be hammered into the ground. The sensor data travels in shielded
    twisted pair cable and RG-6 coax for the video signal. Both of these
    cables run inside a 1" (25mm) plastic conduit the length of the tree.
    I'm open to suggestions and comments on protecting against lightning
    strikes. Some of my questions are:
    Is it ok to tape the 6AWG grounding wire to the outside of the 1" plastic
    conduit or is a separation recommended? (Taping it to the plastic
    conduit is the easiest method)
    Should the electronics at the top of the tree be housed in a metal
    enclosure? (I currently have a plastic junction box in place.)
    Should the grounding wire run up past the electronics to try to
    "intercept" the lightning before it hits the electronics

    Any help is appreciated,
    Chris Dundorf

    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-02-18 18:31
    I am by no sense of the word an expert on this subject, but if I were to
    guess, I would put the electronics in a metal box and run metal conduit up the
    tree to it. I would also run the 6 ga wire along the side of the metal
    conduit, attached to it every 8 foot or so, and to a ground rod at the bottom.
    If the electronics box gets a direct hit, you can count on replacing it,
    anything less this arrangement just might save the day.. Maybe some high
    power EE's might comment on my suggestion and give an idea if it's even close
    to being right.

    Leroy
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-02-18 19:07
    Try to go to google and click on ADVANCED SEARCH,

    The type in metal oxide varistor

    In the box labled contains at least the word.....type lightning.

    That may get you started.


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-02-18 19:22
    I used to work in the Golf industry; where sprinkler controllers were
    affected by lightning -- and it was rarely pretty. The "sacrificial tree"
    approach does get used, though one's system must still be protected from the
    EMI of the strike. Even a non-direct strke can create big problems in an
    electrical system; especially a live electrical system.

    -- Jon Williams


    In a message dated 2/18/2003 12:26:45 PM Central Standard Time,
    mrgadget@e... writes:

    > I'm no expert but my train of thought would be to run the ground wires on a
    > nearby sacrificial tree in an effort to find an easier earth for the
    > lightning.



    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-02-18 22:17
    Hi,
    I live in NH also, and know what you mean with the lightning.

    My experience with industrial electronics and big Midwest factories
    is...nothing will protect from a direct lightning strike. 30 million volts at
    50 million amps is just plain hard to deal with.

    Incidental strikes are easier to deal with. We Optically Isolate as much as
    possible. Try converting everything to serial and use fiber optic cable to
    run down the tree. For power, if you could use Solar or wind to recharge
    batteries, then there would be nothing conductive running up/down the tree.

    Mov's work for a while then they fail, and you don't know it until the
    electronics takes a hit.

    Try <A HREF="www.brickwall.com">www.brickwall.com</A> They have some Inductive
    Filter Assemblies that work
    good.

    Look into people/companies that do commercial radio towers for more help.
    I know this is general, but it is a direction to get started.

    Good Luck,
    Alan Bradford
    Plasma Technologies



    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-02-19 03:08
    I like the idea of using a sacrificial tree. Fortunately there is one
    about 15-20 feet away. Fiber optics do make a good of sense for
    isolation and I think I'll find a radio tower guy and pick his/her brain.

    Thanks for the ideas,
    Chris

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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-02-19 16:40
    This may help:
    The purpose of a lightning rod is NOT to 'attract the
    stroke'. Instead, the rod is to bleed the difference
    in static charge between the air and the ground, thus
    preventing the stroke. The charge bleeds best from a
    sharply pointed object, worst from a 'ball' shaped
    object -- thus lightning rods should have a sharp point.

    That said, a 'sacrificial tree' still makes sense, as
    you want to neutralize the charge near your equipment
    with as little interference as necessary.

    I'm not sure what the magnitude of the 'bleed current'
    would be (sets the size of the wire you run up the
    tree)-- you should see the other references mentioned.

    You might also want to visit Circuit Cellar Inc --
    www.circellar.com, and search on Lightning. Steve
    Ciarcia lives 'up north' also, and writes a lot
    about lightning and various approaches to it.


    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Dundorf
    <cdundorf@j...> wrote:
    >
    > I like the idea of using a sacrificial tree. Fortunately there is
    one
    > about 15-20 feet away. Fiber optics do make a good of sense for
    > isolation and I think I'll find a radio tower guy and pick his/her
    brain.
    >
    > Thanks for the ideas,
    > Chris
    >
    > ________________________________________________________________
    > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
    > Only $9.95 per month!
    > Visit www.juno.com
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-02-19 16:42
    Folks, they still sell lightning rods and stuff. They use special cable and
    electrodes. If it was easy to do it yourself, do you think they would still
    be around? Besides, how can you tell your homemade deal works until its too
    late?

    Original Message

    > The purpose of a lightning rod is NOT to 'attract the
    > stroke'. Instead, the rod is to bleed the difference
    > in static charge between the air and the ground, thus
    > preventing the stroke. The charge bleeds best from a
    > sharply pointed object, worst from a 'ball' shaped
    > object -- thus lightning rods should have a sharp point.
    >
    > That said, a 'sacrificial tree' still makes sense, as
    > you want to neutralize the charge near your equipment
    > with as little interference as necessary.
    >
    > I'm not sure what the magnitude of the 'bleed current'
    > would be (sets the size of the wire you run up the
    > tree)-- you should see the other references mentioned.
    >
    > You might also want to visit Circuit Cellar Inc --
    > www.circellar.com, and search on Lightning. Steve
    > Ciarcia lives 'up north' also, and writes a lot
    > about lightning and various approaches to it.
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