OFF TOPIC ( was Re: Newbie circuit board building question
Archiver
Posts: 46,084
Hi Guys,
I'm a little late to the dance here, but the thread has gone astray.
As a courtesy, please note the subject line when you take it off the
origional topic.
I had never even herd of P2P or donkey or the others before this
thread, and had to seach a bit to find out what the fuss is all about.
A little clarity in the chastisement would have helped.
and for our origional poster, ExpressPCB and PCB123 are the FREE
software leaders that cater to hobbiests. I'm too lasy to post url's.
Not many newbies want to pull a bootleg copy of some high end stuff
and spend the months learning how to use it.
and also, check out Al Williams site for the laser transfer method.
works well.
and check out
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
for others who make their own boards in a variety of ways.
bottom line over there is the Staedlier [noparse][[/noparse]sp?] red pen beats every
resist pen going.
Dave
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Rodent <daweasel@s...> wrote:
> If there are legit, trial versions out there, any search engine
should find
> them -- otherwise you should direct someone to the proper URL.
Since 99.999%
> of the usage of these media sharing programs is for stealing
copyrighted
> material, no wonder everyone is critical of your suggestion.
>
>
Original Message
>
> > I read that as "If you want a trial version, get it from their
web site ;
> > otherwise, use media sharing to get the real version". If that's
not what
> > you meant, I apologize.
>
> > > I don't think that you should be jumping to conclusions on this
forum.
> > >
> > > I in no way advocated what you suggested, and in fact the only
thing
> that I
> > > did advocate was using trial software of TRAXMAKER, which is
freely
> > > available from the maker, there are two ways to get it, one is
from
> their
> > > site the other is from P2P software, where one might also find
other
> useful
> > > downloads.Go read my post again, and read what is there not
what you
> THINK
> > > is there.
>
> > > > I don't think that you should be advocating theft of
intellectual
> property
> > > > on this list.
>
> > > > > P2P software is your friend here, if you have Kazaa
www.kazaa.com or
> > > > > e-donkey www.edonkey.com you may be able to find what you
are
> looking
> > > for,
> > > > > however for a very very nice trial version of what is the
best
> program I
> > > > > could find (and DAMN) easy to use, do a google search for
TRAXMAKER,
> and
> > > > > download their trial version, it expires after a month but
is a
> fully
> > > > > functional trial and damn good for starters!!
I'm a little late to the dance here, but the thread has gone astray.
As a courtesy, please note the subject line when you take it off the
origional topic.
I had never even herd of P2P or donkey or the others before this
thread, and had to seach a bit to find out what the fuss is all about.
A little clarity in the chastisement would have helped.
and for our origional poster, ExpressPCB and PCB123 are the FREE
software leaders that cater to hobbiests. I'm too lasy to post url's.
Not many newbies want to pull a bootleg copy of some high end stuff
and spend the months learning how to use it.
and also, check out Al Williams site for the laser transfer method.
works well.
and check out
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
for others who make their own boards in a variety of ways.
bottom line over there is the Staedlier [noparse][[/noparse]sp?] red pen beats every
resist pen going.
Dave
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Rodent <daweasel@s...> wrote:
> If there are legit, trial versions out there, any search engine
should find
> them -- otherwise you should direct someone to the proper URL.
Since 99.999%
> of the usage of these media sharing programs is for stealing
copyrighted
> material, no wonder everyone is critical of your suggestion.
>
>
Original Message
>
> > I read that as "If you want a trial version, get it from their
web site ;
> > otherwise, use media sharing to get the real version". If that's
not what
> > you meant, I apologize.
>
> > > I don't think that you should be jumping to conclusions on this
forum.
> > >
> > > I in no way advocated what you suggested, and in fact the only
thing
> that I
> > > did advocate was using trial software of TRAXMAKER, which is
freely
> > > available from the maker, there are two ways to get it, one is
from
> their
> > > site the other is from P2P software, where one might also find
other
> useful
> > > downloads.Go read my post again, and read what is there not
what you
> THINK
> > > is there.
>
> > > > I don't think that you should be advocating theft of
intellectual
> property
> > > > on this list.
>
> > > > > P2P software is your friend here, if you have Kazaa
www.kazaa.com or
> > > > > e-donkey www.edonkey.com you may be able to find what you
are
> looking
> > > for,
> > > > > however for a very very nice trial version of what is the
best
> program I
> > > > > could find (and DAMN) easy to use, do a google search for
TRAXMAKER,
> and
> > > > > download their trial version, it expires after a month but
is a
> fully
> > > > > functional trial and damn good for starters!!
Comments
boards using OsmondPPC on my Mac. I make my own basic stamps for
roughly 1/3 the cost just by buying the interperter IC's from
Parallax and making my own carrier board. I have also made my own
development system with a 5V, 2A supply, 4 servo ports, prewired LCD
port, prewired one wire port, 8 configurable led's, 8 configurable
push button switches, serial port, piezo buzzer, reset switch, and
630 pin breadboard.
Click the link to see pics of my stamps and dev system.
http://myweb.core.com/photos/jbirnsch@vbe.com/BasicStamp
Jason
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Mucha <davemucha@j...>"
<davemucha@j...> wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> I'm a little late to the dance here, but the thread has gone astray.
>
> As a courtesy, please note the subject line when you take it off
the
> origional topic.
>
> I had never even herd of P2P or donkey or the others before this
> thread, and had to seach a bit to find out what the fuss is all
about.
>
> A little clarity in the chastisement would have helped.
>
> and for our origional poster, ExpressPCB and PCB123 are the FREE
> software leaders that cater to hobbiests. I'm too lasy to post
url's.
>
> Not many newbies want to pull a bootleg copy of some high end stuff
> and spend the months learning how to use it.
>
> and also, check out Al Williams site for the laser transfer
method.
> works well.
>
> and check out
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> for others who make their own boards in a variety of ways.
>
> bottom line over there is the Staedlier [noparse][[/noparse]sp?] red pen beats every
> resist pen going.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Rodent <daweasel@s...> wrote:
> > If there are legit, trial versions out there, any search engine
> should find
> > them -- otherwise you should direct someone to the proper URL.
> Since 99.999%
> > of the usage of these media sharing programs is for stealing
> copyrighted
> > material, no wonder everyone is critical of your suggestion.
> >
> >
Original Message
> >
> > > I read that as "If you want a trial version, get it from their
> web site ;
> > > otherwise, use media sharing to get the real version". If
that's
> not what
> > > you meant, I apologize.
> >
> > > > I don't think that you should be jumping to conclusions on
this
> forum.
> > > >
> > > > I in no way advocated what you suggested, and in fact the
only
> thing
> > that I
> > > > did advocate was using trial software of TRAXMAKER, which is
> freely
> > > > available from the maker, there are two ways to get it, one
is
> from
> > their
> > > > site the other is from P2P software, where one might also
find
> other
> > useful
> > > > downloads.Go read my post again, and read what is there not
> what you
> > THINK
> > > > is there.
> >
> > > > > I don't think that you should be advocating theft of
> intellectual
> > property
> > > > > on this list.
> >
> > > > > > P2P software is your friend here, if you have Kazaa
> www.kazaa.com or
> > > > > > e-donkey www.edonkey.com you may be able to find what you
> are
> > looking
> > > > for,
> > > > > > however for a very very nice trial version of what is the
> best
> > program I
> > > > > > could find (and DAMN) easy to use, do a google search for
> TRAXMAKER,
> > and
> > > > > > download their trial version, it expires after a month
but
> is a
> > fully
> > > > > > functional trial and damn good for starters!!
I HATE Yahoo for castrating the links.....
http://myweb.core.com/photos/jbirnsch"at"vbe"dot"com/BasicStamp
change the "at" to @ and "dot" to . It should work then.
Jason
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "jbirnsch <jbirnsch@v...>"
<jbirnsch@v...> wrote:
> I have had great results using the toner transfer method. I layout
my
> boards using OsmondPPC on my Mac. I make my own basic stamps for
> roughly 1/3 the cost just by buying the interperter IC's from
> Parallax and making my own carrier board. I have also made my own
> development system with a 5V, 2A supply, 4 servo ports, prewired
LCD
> port, prewired one wire port, 8 configurable led's, 8 configurable
> push button switches, serial port, piezo buzzer, reset switch, and
> 630 pin breadboard.
>
> Click the link to see pics of my stamps and dev system.
>
> http://myweb.core.com/photos/jbirnsch@v.../BasicStamp
>
> Jason
>
> --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Mucha <davemucha@j...>"
> <davemucha@j...> wrote:
> > Hi Guys,
> >
> > I'm a little late to the dance here, but the thread has gone
astray.
> >
> > As a courtesy, please note the subject line when you take it off
> the
> > origional topic.
> >
> > I had never even herd of P2P or donkey or the others before this
> > thread, and had to seach a bit to find out what the fuss is all
> about.
> >
> > A little clarity in the chastisement would have helped.
> >
> > and for our origional poster, ExpressPCB and PCB123 are the FREE
> > software leaders that cater to hobbiests. I'm too lasy to post
> url's.
> >
> > Not many newbies want to pull a bootleg copy of some high end
stuff
> > and spend the months learning how to use it.
> >
> > and also, check out Al Williams site for the laser transfer
> method.
> > works well.
> >
> > and check out
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> > for others who make their own boards in a variety of ways.
> >
> > bottom line over there is the Staedlier [noparse][[/noparse]sp?] red pen beats every
> > resist pen going.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Rodent <daweasel@s...> wrote:
> > > If there are legit, trial versions out there, any search engine
> > should find
> > > them -- otherwise you should direct someone to the proper URL.
> > Since 99.999%
> > > of the usage of these media sharing programs is for stealing
> > copyrighted
> > > material, no wonder everyone is critical of your suggestion.
> > >
> > >
Original Message
> > >
> > > > I read that as "If you want a trial version, get it from
their
> > web site ;
> > > > otherwise, use media sharing to get the real version". If
> that's
> > not what
> > > > you meant, I apologize.
> > >
> > > > > I don't think that you should be jumping to conclusions on
> this
> > forum.
> > > > >
> > > > > I in no way advocated what you suggested, and in fact the
> only
> > thing
> > > that I
> > > > > did advocate was using trial software of TRAXMAKER, which
is
> > freely
> > > > > available from the maker, there are two ways to get it, one
> is
> > from
> > > their
> > > > > site the other is from P2P software, where one might also
> find
> > other
> > > useful
> > > > > downloads.Go read my post again, and read what is there
not
> > what you
> > > THINK
> > > > > is there.
> > >
> > > > > > I don't think that you should be advocating theft of
> > intellectual
> > > property
> > > > > > on this list.
> > >
> > > > > > > P2P software is your friend here, if you have Kazaa
> > www.kazaa.com or
> > > > > > > e-donkey www.edonkey.com you may be able to find what
you
> > are
> > > looking
> > > > > for,
> > > > > > > however for a very very nice trial version of what is
the
> > best
> > > program I
> > > > > > > could find (and DAMN) easy to use, do a google search
for
> > TRAXMAKER,
> > > and
> > > > > > > download their trial version, it expires after a month
> but
> > is a
> > > fully
> > > > > > > functional trial and damn good for starters!!
post subject remained unchanged and the post chastising offered no
explanation of what was being done wrong.
personally I think software piracy is theft in all aspects, even if
the owner is rich or the software is not worth the money or is not
really ready for sale....... you know the excuses.
and, yeah, I can type fast, but searching for links of sites that we
have posted on here over and over and over and over is just me being
lazy.
but, please don't confuse me with the guy who listed sites like p2p.
Personally, I think any service that offers, promotes or facilitates
software piracy should be put up on conspiracy charges and shut down
instantly. Napster should not have been in existance the day after
it was brought in front of a judge. instant cese and desist, and all
profits should have been taken.
ok, now I'm ranting.....
end
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Rodent <daweasel@s...> wrote:
> So, you're too lazy to get the URL, but you can type a novel
defending
> people who support software piracy? Go figure.
>
>
Original Message
>
> > You appear to be at odds with what the operators of the services
say that
> > their service is for, and if what you say is true, then they
would have
> been
> > shut down, as has already been the case with one of these
services.
>
> <snip>
>
> > I didn't direct straight to the URL, as I just couldn't be
bothered
> locating
> > it myself. I'm lazy, and I suggested the method that worked for
me, SO
> WIND
> > YOUR NECK IN MATE.
<davemucha@j...> wrote:
[noparse][[/noparse]snip]
> Personally, I think any service that offers, promotes or
facilitates
> software piracy should be put up on conspiracy charges and shut
down
> instantly. Napster should not have been in existance the day
after
> it was brought in front of a judge. instant cese and desist, and
all
> profits should have been taken.
>
What defines p2p? What about ftp? That's peer to peer file sharing.
Should ftp sites be outlawed? How about web sites? The files "served
up" are done so to the peer (browser). Should web sites be outlawed?
The internet was founded on the concept of peer to peer protocols.
It's ridiculous to think that one form is bad (Napster, Kazaa) while
other forms (ftp, http) aren't. If I invent a new protocol, who's
the judge on whether it's okay?
anywhere, and if it's search engines or file transferring provide benefits
over other methods, then I would recommend it. I personally found and
downloaded the trial version of trax maker, using P2P and it was great. When
I have saved enough of our poor little currency to afford it, I will buy it.
If people judge P2P as bad because they assume that people sometimes break
the law using it, do those same people not drive a care because people
sometimes break the law using their car to exceed the speed limit?
Anyway, my initial post was intended to reply to the question, and that was
how to make PCB prototypes, and having had experience in the area quite
recently, learning cheap and easy ways to do it in my kitchen I offered some
advice, which is what this forum is about isn't it? My advice contained NONE
of what it is accused of, and I am still offended by any inference that it
did. Watching some of the reactions here has been a cute study indeed.
I won't post about this again, however I am now going off to reconsider my
electronic career, as electronic systems are used in guidance of cruise
missiles and 99.9999999% of the time cruise missiles are used for no good
purpose............therefore electronics must be bad.
Original Message
From: <gtdesrosi@c...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 2:40 AM
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] off topic ( was Re: Newbie circuit board building
question
> --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Mucha <davemucha@j...>"
> <davemucha@j...> wrote:
> [noparse][[/noparse]snip]
> > Personally, I think any service that offers, promotes or
> facilitates
> > software piracy should be put up on conspiracy charges and shut
> down
> > instantly. Napster should not have been in existance the day
> after
> > it was brought in front of a judge. instant cese and desist, and
> all
> > profits should have been taken.
> >
>
> What defines p2p? What about ftp? That's peer to peer file sharing.
> Should ftp sites be outlawed? How about web sites? The files "served
> up" are done so to the peer (browser). Should web sites be outlawed?
> The internet was founded on the concept of peer to peer protocols.
> It's ridiculous to think that one form is bad (Napster, Kazaa) while
> other forms (ftp, http) aren't. If I invent a new protocol, who's
> the judge on whether it's okay?
>
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
Don't feel bad [noparse]:)[/noparse]
People adjudging P2P as bad, who are assuming people break the law using
it, are usually thieves at heart.
Folks tend to judge other folks by their own standards.
Sooooooo if they would steal things using P2P they would assume everyone
else would do the same.
Kitchen knives have been used to kill people. Simply because I own one
does not make me a killer.
Cruise missiles have led to some great advances in the world of parallel
processing and have only been used to dispatch folks as described above
[noparse]:)[/noparse]
Cheer up Mate!
"Dwain J. Hill" wrote:
>
> Personally I will advocate the legal use of anything. P2P is not illegal
> anywhere, and if it's search engines or file transferring provide benefits
> over other methods, then I would recommend it. I personally found and
> downloaded the trial version of trax maker, using P2P and it was great. When
> I have saved enough of our poor little currency to afford it, I will buy it.
>
> If people judge P2P as bad because they assume that people sometimes break
> the law using it, do those same people not drive a care because people
> sometimes break the law using their car to exceed the speed limit?
>
> Anyway, my initial post was intended to reply to the question, and that was
> how to make PCB prototypes, and having had experience in the area quite
> recently, learning cheap and easy ways to do it in my kitchen I offered some
> advice, which is what this forum is about isn't it? My advice contained NONE
> of what it is accused of, and I am still offended by any inference that it
> did. Watching some of the reactions here has been a cute study indeed.
>
> I won't post about this again, however I am now going off to reconsider my
> electronic career, as electronic systems are used in guidance of cruise
> missiles and 99.9999999% of the time cruise missiles are used for no good
> purpose............therefore electronics must be bad.
>
Original Message
> From: <gtdesrosi@c...>
> To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 2:40 AM
> Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] off topic ( was Re: Newbie circuit board building
> question
>
> > --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Mucha <davemucha@j...>"
> > <davemucha@j...> wrote:
> > [noparse][[/noparse]snip]
> > > Personally, I think any service that offers, promotes or
> > facilitates
> > > software piracy should be put up on conspiracy charges and shut
> > down
> > > instantly. Napster should not have been in existance the day
> > after
> > > it was brought in front of a judge. instant cese and desist, and
> > all
> > > profits should have been taken.
> > >
> >
> > What defines p2p? What about ftp? That's peer to peer file sharing.
> > Should ftp sites be outlawed? How about web sites? The files "served
> > up" are done so to the peer (browser). Should web sites be outlawed?
> > The internet was founded on the concept of peer to peer protocols.
> > It's ridiculous to think that one form is bad (Napster, Kazaa) while
> > other forms (ftp, http) aren't. If I invent a new protocol, who's
> > the judge on whether it's okay?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
> Body of the message will be ignored.
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
are you making money from giving away, or helping other people give
away some third parties work ?
not too hard.
if your new protocol is based on giving away someone else's software,
guess what. I find that wrong.
Napster's whole claim to fame was giving people free access to works
they had not offered any compensation for.
Hack Protel or Eagle and offer that as your attraction to draw people
to your site. or hack it an put it on someone else's site and offer
the link if they sign up for your advertising. profiting from
illegal activities is wrong period.
At this point, I would preferr that we keep this list free of this
thread.
I'm done with it.
Dave
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "gtdesrosi <gtdesrosi@c...>"
<gtdesrosi@c...> wrote:
> --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Mucha <davemucha@j...>"
> <davemucha@j...> wrote:
> [noparse][[/noparse]snip]
> > Personally, I think any service that offers, promotes or
> facilitates
> > software piracy should be put up on conspiracy charges and shut
> down
> > instantly. Napster should not have been in existance the day
> after
> > it was brought in front of a judge. instant cese and desist, and
> all
> > profits should have been taken.
> >
>
> What defines p2p? What about ftp? That's peer to peer file sharing.
> Should ftp sites be outlawed? How about web sites? The
files "served
> up" are done so to the peer (browser). Should web sites be
outlawed?
> The internet was founded on the concept of peer to peer protocols.
> It's ridiculous to think that one form is bad (Napster, Kazaa)
while
> other forms (ftp, http) aren't. If I invent a new protocol, who's
> the judge on whether it's okay?