Interfacing a Stamp with AC devices (not relays)
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Posts: 46,084
Hi All,
I want my Stamp to know when an independently operating AC device is
energized. In the past, I have done some hokey stuff like Hall sensors, but
for this project I want a "grown-up" solution. Ideas that have occured to me
are:
Torrodial xfrmr, rectifier, Stamp
Diode (1/2 wave rec.), voltage divider, Stamp
Diode (1/2 wave rec.), zener, Stamp
Various combinations of the above.
How do the big kids do this? I'd like a simple and cheap solutions, but is
there a nice IC or other device that does this?
Thanks,
Jonathan
I want my Stamp to know when an independently operating AC device is
energized. In the past, I have done some hokey stuff like Hall sensors, but
for this project I want a "grown-up" solution. Ideas that have occured to me
are:
Torrodial xfrmr, rectifier, Stamp
Diode (1/2 wave rec.), voltage divider, Stamp
Diode (1/2 wave rec.), zener, Stamp
Various combinations of the above.
How do the big kids do this? I'd like a simple and cheap solutions, but is
there a nice IC or other device that does this?
Thanks,
Jonathan
Comments
is simple and safe (UL approved even)
Original Message
From: "Jonathan Peakall" <jpeakall@m...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 7:10 PM
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Interfacing a Stamp with AC devices (not relays)
> Hi All,
>
> I want my Stamp to know when an independently operating AC device is
> energized. In the past, I have done some hokey stuff like Hall sensors,
but
> for this project I want a "grown-up" solution. Ideas that have occured to
me
> are:
>
> Torrodial xfrmr, rectifier, Stamp
>
> Diode (1/2 wave rec.), voltage divider, Stamp
>
> Diode (1/2 wave rec.), zener, Stamp
>
> Various combinations of the above.
>
> How do the big kids do this? I'd like a simple and cheap solutions, but is
> there a nice IC or other device that does this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
1 step-down transformer you could check voltage with this
2 current transformer and you could check the current used
3 opto isolator just read the state
4 Hall sensor Guess you could look for movement as well
5 I think with a diode and large resistors you can hook up
to a 100, 200 volt line direct per the pic book
Microchip not the best Idea.
6 some motor contactor's or start switches have extra
contacts use them
7 someone else can fill this in
Original Message
From: "Jonathan Peakall" <jpeakall@m...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: January 19, 2003 4:10 PM
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Interfacing a Stamp with AC devices
(not relays)
: Hi All,
:
: I want my Stamp to know when an independently operating AC
device is
: energized. In the past, I have done some hokey stuff like
Hall sensors, but
: for this project I want a "grown-up" solution. Ideas that
have occured to me
: are:
:
: Torrodial xfrmr, rectifier, Stamp
:
: Diode (1/2 wave rec.), voltage divider, Stamp
:
: Diode (1/2 wave rec.), zener, Stamp
:
: Various combinations of the above.
:
: How do the big kids do this? I'd like a simple and cheap
solutions, but is
: there a nice IC or other device that does this?
:
: Thanks,
:
: Jonathan
:
:
:
: To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
: basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
: from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in
the Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
:
:
: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
:
:
though the contacts - that should extend their life just a weeee bit over
the 115V rating. There are probably smaller relays or even optocouplers that
can do the same thing - the HA1 was what was available in town (that I could
find).
Original Message
From: "Jonathan Peakall" <jpeakall@m...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 4:10 PM
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Interfacing a Stamp with AC devices (not relays)
> Hi All,
>
> I want my Stamp to know when an independently operating AC device is
> energized. In the past, I have done some hokey stuff like Hall sensors,
but
> for this project I want a "grown-up" solution. Ideas that have occured to
me
> are:
>
> Torrodial xfrmr, rectifier, Stamp
>
> Diode (1/2 wave rec.), voltage divider, Stamp
>
> Diode (1/2 wave rec.), zener, Stamp
>
> Various combinations of the above.
>
> How do the big kids do this? I'd like a simple and cheap solutions, but is
> there a nice IC or other device that does this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Is there such a thing as an AC optoisolator?
Jonathan
Original Message
From: "Larry Gaminde" <lgaminde@t...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Interfacing a Stamp with AC devices (not relays)
> There are a number of ways to do this
>
> 1 step-down transformer you could check voltage with this
> 2 current transformer and you could check the current used
> 3 opto isolator just read the state
> 4 Hall sensor Guess you could look for movement as well
> 5 I think with a diode and large resistors you can hook up
> to a 100, 200 volt line direct per the pic book
> Microchip not the best Idea.
> 6 some motor contactor's or start switches have extra
> contacts use them
> 7 someone else can fill this in
>
>
Original Message
> From: "Jonathan Peakall" <jpeakall@m...>
> To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: January 19, 2003 4:10 PM
> Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Interfacing a Stamp with AC devices
> (not relays)
>
>
> : Hi All,
> :
> : I want my Stamp to know when an independently operating AC
> device is
> : energized. In the past, I have done some hokey stuff like
> Hall sensors, but
> : for this project I want a "grown-up" solution. Ideas that
> have occured to me
> : are:
> :
> : Torrodial xfrmr, rectifier, Stamp
> :
> : Diode (1/2 wave rec.), voltage divider, Stamp
> :
> : Diode (1/2 wave rec.), zener, Stamp
> :
> : Various combinations of the above.
> :
> : How do the big kids do this? I'd like a simple and cheap
> solutions, but is
> : there a nice IC or other device that does this?
> :
> : Thanks,
> :
> : Jonathan
> :
> :
> :
> : To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> : basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> : from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in
> the Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
> :
> :
> : Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> :
> :
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
you a isolated TTL output. Clean and cheap. I have
used them on quite a few projects with total success.
Lew M
--- Jonathan Peakall <jpeakall@m...> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I want my Stamp to know when an independently
> operating AC device is
> energized. In the past, I have done some hokey stuff
> like Hall sensors, but
> for this project I want a "grown-up" solution. Ideas
> that have occured to me
> are:
>
> Torrodial xfrmr, rectifier, Stamp
>
> Diode (1/2 wave rec.), voltage divider, Stamp
>
> Diode (1/2 wave rec.), zener, Stamp
>
> Various combinations of the above.
>
> How do the big kids do this? I'd like a simple and
> cheap solutions, but is
> there a nice IC or other device that does this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jonathan
>
__________________________________________________
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makes them. The generic number is IAC-5. They look like the Solid State Relay
Modules but are Input Modules. They look for 90-140 VAC in and output a 5
volt signal.
The Standard Type has a Screw through them to attach to the PC Board.
The Mini type do not require a threaded connector on the PC Board. I use this
type in my Industrial Control Projects.
<A HREF="www.digikey.com">www.digikey.com</A>
IAC-5 Modules Grayhill Part # 70M-IAC5 Digikey Part # GH7026-ND
These modules are UL approved for Electrical Isolation.
Using a 115 VAC Power relay with 5 volts switched through the contacts will
work, but over time the contacts will glaze over. The 5 Volt signal does not
allow enough current to flow too keep the contacts clean. If you want to use
a relay then find one with a very low contact rating.
Hope this helps,
Alan Bradford
Plasma Technologies
[noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
will sense from 5 v to 240 v AC or DC
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/HC/HCPL-3700.pdf
Original Message
From: "Lew Muller" <lewmu@y...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: January 19, 2003 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Interfacing a Stamp with AC
devices (not relays)
: Check out a Crydom MIAC5...senses 90-140VAC and gives
: you a isolated TTL output. Clean and cheap. I have
: used them on quite a few projects with total success.
:
: Lew M
: --- Jonathan Peakall <jpeakall@m...> wrote:
: > Hi All,
: >
: > I want my Stamp to know when an independently
: > operating AC device is
: > energized. In the past, I have done some hokey stuff
: > like Hall sensors, but
: > for this project I want a "grown-up" solution. Ideas
: > that have occured to me
: > are:
: >
: > Torrodial xfrmr, rectifier, Stamp
: >
: > Diode (1/2 wave rec.), voltage divider, Stamp
: >
: > Diode (1/2 wave rec.), zener, Stamp
: >
: > Various combinations of the above.
: >
: > How do the big kids do this? I'd like a simple and
: > cheap solutions, but is
: > there a nice IC or other device that does this?
: >
: > Thanks,
: >
: > Jonathan
: >
:
:
: __________________________________________________
: Do you Yahoo!?
: Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
: http://mailplus.yahoo.com
:
: To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
: basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
: from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in
the Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
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:
:
Thanks, those were the type of unit I was looking for. Awful expensive
though. I wonder why they cost so much. I may have to use a kludge, these
units would double the project cost. Or maybe I'll dig deep. In either case,
thanks for the info!
Jonathan
www.madlabs.info
Original Message
From: <plasmastamp@a...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 6:14 AM
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Interfacing a Stamp with AC devices (not relays)
> The easiest and safest way is to use a Solid State Input Module. Opto-22
> makes them. The generic number is IAC-5. They look like the Solid State
Relay
> Modules but are Input Modules. They look for 90-140 VAC in and output a 5
> volt signal.
> The Standard Type has a Screw through them to attach to the PC Board.
> The Mini type do not require a threaded connector on the PC Board. I use
this
> type in my Industrial Control Projects.
>
> <A HREF="www.digikey.com">www.digikey.com</A>
>
> IAC-5 Modules Grayhill Part # 70M-IAC5 Digikey Part # GH7026-ND
>
> These modules are UL approved for Electrical Isolation.
>
> Using a 115 VAC Power relay with 5 volts switched through the contacts
will
> work, but over time the contacts will glaze over. The 5 Volt signal does
not
> allow enough current to flow too keep the contacts clean. If you want to
use
> a relay then find one with a very low contact rating.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Alan Bradford
> Plasma Technologies
>
>
>
> [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
Perfect, and at a good price! Thanks for the information!
Jonathan
www.madlabs.info
'
Original Message
From: "Larry Gaminde" <lgaminde@t...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Interfacing a Stamp with AC devices (not relays)
> Here is a data sheet for a chip in the jameco catalog that
> will sense from 5 v to 240 v AC or DC
>
> http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/HC/HCPL-3700.pdf
>
>
>
Original Message
> From: "Lew Muller" <lewmu@y...>
> To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: January 19, 2003 10:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Interfacing a Stamp with AC
> devices (not relays)
>
>
> : Check out a Crydom MIAC5...senses 90-140VAC and gives
> : you a isolated TTL output. Clean and cheap. I have
> : used them on quite a few projects with total success.
> :
> : Lew M
> : --- Jonathan Peakall <jpeakall@m...> wrote:
> : > Hi All,
> : >
> : > I want my Stamp to know when an independently
> : > operating AC device is
> : > energized. In the past, I have done some hokey stuff
> : > like Hall sensors, but
> : > for this project I want a "grown-up" solution. Ideas
> : > that have occured to me
> : > are:
> : >
> : > Torrodial xfrmr, rectifier, Stamp
> : >
> : > Diode (1/2 wave rec.), voltage divider, Stamp
> : >
> : > Diode (1/2 wave rec.), zener, Stamp
> : >
> : > Various combinations of the above.
> : >
> : > How do the big kids do this? I'd like a simple and
> : > cheap solutions, but is
> : > there a nice IC or other device that does this?
> : >
> : > Thanks,
> : >
> : > Jonathan
> : >
> :
> :
> : __________________________________________________
> : Do you Yahoo!?
> : Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> : http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> :
> : To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> : basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> : from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in
> the Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
> :
> :
> : Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> :
> :
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
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>
>
>
Looking at the data sheet for the HCPL-3700, it says:
8. In applications where dV cm /dt may exceed 50,000 V/µs (Such as static
discharge), a series resistor, R CC , should be included to
protect the detector chip from destructive surge currents. The recommended
value for R CC is 240 $ per volt of allowable drop in
V CC (between pin 8 and V CC ) with a minimum value of 240 $.
Now, if I am reading this right, I can use the minimum resistor value of
240Ohms, correct?
Thanks again,
Jonathan
www.madlabs.info
Original Message
From: "Larry Gaminde" <lgaminde@t...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Interfacing a Stamp with AC devices (not relays)
> Here is a data sheet for a chip in the jameco catalog that
> will sense from 5 v to 240 v AC or DC
>
> http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/HC/HCPL-3700.pdf
>
>
>
Original Message
> From: "Lew Muller" <lewmu@y...>
> To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: January 19, 2003 10:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Interfacing a Stamp with AC
> devices (not relays)
>
>
> : Check out a Crydom MIAC5...senses 90-140VAC and gives
> : you a isolated TTL output. Clean and cheap. I have
> : used them on quite a few projects with total success.
> :
> : Lew M
> : --- Jonathan Peakall <jpeakall@m...> wrote:
> : > Hi All,
> : >
> : > I want my Stamp to know when an independently
> : > operating AC device is
> : > energized. In the past, I have done some hokey stuff
> : > like Hall sensors, but
> : > for this project I want a "grown-up" solution. Ideas
> : > that have occured to me
> : > are:
> : >
> : > Torrodial xfrmr, rectifier, Stamp
> : >
> : > Diode (1/2 wave rec.), voltage divider, Stamp
> : >
> : > Diode (1/2 wave rec.), zener, Stamp
> : >
> : > Various combinations of the above.
> : >
> : > How do the big kids do this? I'd like a simple and
> : > cheap solutions, but is
> : > there a nice IC or other device that does this?
> : >
> : > Thanks,
> : >
> : > Jonathan
> : >
> :
> :
> : __________________________________________________
> : Do you Yahoo!?
> : Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> : http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> :
> : To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> : basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> : from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in
> the Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
> :
> :
> : Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> :
> :
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
When working with AC line powered circuits you need to look very closely at
isolation, for personal safety and circuit safety.
When building an Operators control station, there can be no 120 VAC on any of
the Switches, Controls or Lamps. If your 120 VAC sensing circuit is not
properly isolated, then even if you have 5VDC switches, you can have a
serious voltage hazard to personnel.
Using a UL Approved device saves lots of headaches in the design stage.
Remember, $10 for an Isolated Input Device is much cheaper than a Good Boston
Injury Lawyer.
Alan Bradford
Plasma Technologies
[noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://www.opto22.com/Datasheets/0251_G4_Digital_AC_Inputs.pdf
--- Jonathan Peakall <jpeakall@m...> wrote:
> Larry,
>
> Is there such a thing as an AC optoisolator?
>
> Jonathan
>
>
Original Message
> From: "Larry Gaminde" <lgaminde@t...>
> To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 4:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Interfacing a Stamp with
> AC devices (not relays)
>
>
> > There are a number of ways to do this
> >
> > 1 step-down transformer you could check voltage
> with this
> > 2 current transformer and you could check the
> current used
> > 3 opto isolator just read the state
> > 4 Hall sensor Guess you could look for
> movement as well
> > 5 I think with a diode and large resistors you
> can hook up
> > to a 100, 200 volt line direct per the pic
> book
> > Microchip not the best Idea.
> > 6 some motor contactor's or start switches have
> extra
> > contacts use them
> > 7 someone else can fill this in
> >
> >
Original Message
> > From: "Jonathan Peakall" <jpeakall@m...>
> > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: January 19, 2003 4:10 PM
> > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Interfacing a Stamp with AC
> devices
> > (not relays)
> >
> >
> > : Hi All,
> > :
> > : I want my Stamp to know when an independently
> operating AC
> > device is
> > : energized. In the past, I have done some hokey
> stuff like
> > Hall sensors, but
> > : for this project I want a "grown-up" solution.
> Ideas that
> > have occured to me
> > : are:
> > :
> > : Torrodial xfrmr, rectifier, Stamp
> > :
> > : Diode (1/2 wave rec.), voltage divider, Stamp
> > :
> > : Diode (1/2 wave rec.), zener, Stamp
> > :
> > : Various combinations of the above.
> > :
> > : How do the big kids do this? I'd like a simple
> and cheap
> > solutions, but is
> > : there a nice IC or other device that does this?
> > :
> > : Thanks,
> > :
> > : Jonathan
> > :
> > :
> > :
> > : To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> > : basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > : from the same email address that you subscribed.
> Text in
> > the Subject and Body of the message will be
> ignored.
> > :
> > :
> > : Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > :
> > :
> >
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > from the same email address that you subscribed.
> Text in the Subject and
> Body of the message will be ignored.
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
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> from the same email address that you subscribed.
> Text in the Subject and Body of the message will be
> ignored.
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>
>
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(try Allen Bradley prices. They are thieves with theeir hand out for
*EVERYTHING*)
How about a rectifier and then a Zener? A bit cheaper.
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Peakall"
<jpeakall@m...> wrote:
> Lew and Allan,
>
> Thanks, those were the type of unit I was looking for. Awful
expensive
> though. I wonder why they cost so much. I may have to use a kludge,
these
> units would double the project cost. Or maybe I'll dig deep. In
either case,
> thanks for the info!
> The biggest reason for the cost is the Lawyers that were on the design team.
> When working with AC line powered circuits you need to look very closely at
> isolation, for personal safety and circuit safety.
> When building an Operators control station, there can be no 120 VAC on any of
> the Switches, Controls or Lamps.
Hmmm... I'm confused. According to this reasoning my house is
apparently a very unsafe place as I've got 120 VAC on switches
and lamps all over the place... all with the blessings of the
NEC btw. So what's so different about an operator's console??
Michael Burr
Your house is safe because the National Electrical Council, the main code
enforcement in the US has different standards for residential wiring. Your
house, does not see the use as an industrial application. Translation:
Different set of Lawyers wrote the rules.
OSHA, in the US, doesn't have jurisdiction in your house so they make the
industrial people pay for this little transgression. Translation: Different
Government agencies don't have to play by the same rules, even though
electricity is the same throughout the universe.
Hmmm... I'm confused.· According to this reasoning my house is
apparently a very unsafe place as I've got 120 VAC on switches
and lamps all over the place... all with the blessings of the
NEC btw.· So what's so different about an operator's console??
Michael Burr
plasmastamp@a... wrote:
> The biggest reason for the cost is the Lawyers that were on the design
team.
> When working with AC line powered circuits you need to look very closely at
> isolation, for personal safety and circuit safety.
> When building an Operators control station, there can be no 120 VAC on any
of
> the Switches, Controls or Lamps.
[noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> No.
> Your house is safe because the National Electrical Council, the main code
> enforcement in the US has different standards for residential wiring. Your
> house, does not see the use as an industrial application. Translation:
> Different set of Lawyers wrote the rules.
Alan, I don't mean to be argumentative here, but it was you (in
your original post) who preceeded your statement that there can
be no 120 VAC on switches or lamps in operator's consoles with
the following statement:
"When working with AC line powered circuits you need to look
very closely at isolation, for personal safety and circuit safety."
You seem to have implied there that it _IS_ a safety concern...
so I asked what's the difference between that and a house. Now,
you seem to be implying that it is not really a safety concern
and the requirements are due to "Lawyer's who wrote the rules"
(although I doubt lawyers actually wrote the rules... perhaps
you mean 'bureaucrat'). So I remain confussed as to what point
you were trying to make. Do you consider the practice dangerous
or merely not in compliance with the rules?
Michael Burr
on the list who blow things up with 5 volts so to give
anyone advice about 120 plus voltage is really stupid, All I
can say is it will smoke faster with higher voltage so go
for it. ( you may be it)
Original Message
From: "Michael Burr" <mburr@b...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: January 20, 2003 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Interfacing a Stamp with AC
devices (not relays)
: plasmastamp@a... wrote:
:
: > No.
: > Your house is safe because the National Electrical
Council, the main code
: > enforcement in the US has different standards for
residential wiring. Your
: > house, does not see the use as an industrial
application. Translation:
: > Different set of Lawyers wrote the rules.
:
:
: Alan, I don't mean to be argumentative here, but it was
you (in
: your original post) who preceeded your statement that
there can
: be no 120 VAC on switches or lamps in operator's consoles
with
: the following statement:
:
: "When working with AC line powered circuits you need to
look
: very closely at isolation, for personal safety and circuit
safety."
:
: You seem to have implied there that it _IS_ a safety
concern...
: so I asked what's the difference between that and a house.
Now,
: you seem to be implying that it is not really a safety
concern
: and the requirements are due to "Lawyer's who wrote the
rules"
: (although I doubt lawyers actually wrote the rules...
perhaps
: you mean 'bureaucrat'). So I remain confussed as to what
point
: you were trying to make. Do you consider the practice
dangerous
: or merely not in compliance with the rules?
:
: Michael Burr
:
:
: To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
: basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
: from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in
the Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
:
:
: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
:
:
that goes
to the outlet has two spades, one of which is normally hot (120VAC) with respect
to earth
ground and the other isn't? This plug will usually enter into an outlet in one
direction
only? The small blade is the hot one, connects to the black wire inside the
outlet, the
large one is called neutral, connected to the white wire inside the outlet.
Inside the
lamp where these two wires connect to a light bulb is important. We normally
connect the
neutral wire to the outside screw base of the bulb connection. Switch this, so
that the
hot wire is connected here, and what happens? Some poor unsuspecting soul is
changing a
light bulb standing on a damp concrete floor with bare or wet feet feet. Soon
as the bulb
is unscrewed from the socket they touch the screw base of the bulb where it
connects to
the lamp holder and then find out what happens after this life time, as they are
electrocuted. This is not to say that one cannot connect 120VAC devices to
common
connections, it is just to say if you do, make sure you know the details.
Usually someone
with no experience, doesn't know enough to ask the proper questions to avoid a
very costly
mistake.
Hope this helps,
Leroy
Original Message
From: "Larry Gaminde" <lgaminde@t...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Interfacing a Stamp with AC devices (not relays)
: I'll bet what he is trying to say is there are enough people
: on the list who blow things up with 5 volts so to give
: anyone advice about 120 plus voltage is really stupid, All I
: can say is it will smoke faster with higher voltage so go
: for it. ( you may be it)
:
:
:
:
Original Message
: From: "Michael Burr" <mburr@b...>
: To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
: Sent: January 20, 2003 4:06 PM
: Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Interfacing a Stamp with AC
: devices (not relays)
:
:
: : plasmastamp@a... wrote:
: :
: : > No.
: : > Your house is safe because the National Electrical
: Council, the main code
: : > enforcement in the US has different standards for
: residential wiring. Your
: : > house, does not see the use as an industrial
: application. Translation:
: : > Different set of Lawyers wrote the rules.
: :
: :
: : Alan, I don't mean to be argumentative here, but it was
: you (in
: : your original post) who preceeded your statement that
: there can
: : be no 120 VAC on switches or lamps in operator's consoles
: with
: : the following statement:
: :
: : "When working with AC line powered circuits you need to
: look
: : very closely at isolation, for personal safety and circuit
: safety."
: :
: : You seem to have implied there that it _IS_ a safety
: concern...
: : so I asked what's the difference between that and a house.
: Now,
: : you seem to be implying that it is not really a safety
: concern
: : and the requirements are due to "Lawyer's who wrote the
: rules"
: : (although I doubt lawyers actually wrote the rules...
: perhaps
: : you mean 'bureaucrat'). So I remain confussed as to what
: point
: : you were trying to make. Do you consider the practice
: dangerous
: : or merely not in compliance with the rules?
: :
: : Michael Burr
: :
: :
: : To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
: : basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
: : from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in
: the Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
: :
: :
: : Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
: :
: :
:
:
: To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
: basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
: from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
of the
message will be ignored.
:
:
: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
:
:
regulations prohibiting 120 VAC on Operators controls, but all my customers
ask for that to satisfy OSHA Inspectors.
Industrial equipment is used harder than home equipment. It is your home and
you take better care of your own stuff. Industrial equipment is used by many
conscientious workers, but there are some out there that done care. I have
worked on systems where operators have been pushing buttons with the chipping
hammer, that they already have in their hands. The hammer is used to clean
metals just cut.
Like the woman who sued McDonalds over a Hot Cup Of Coffee, lawsuits, workers
Comp, and OSHA visits, have made the workplace regulations different than at
home.
I hope this clears things up. It was what I was thinking, I just didn't write
it good enough.
Alan Bradford
Plasma Technologies
[noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> The answer is Yes to the regulations. O do not know the source of the
> regulations prohibiting 120 VAC on Operators controls, but all my customers
> ask for that to satisfy OSHA Inspectors.
>
> Industrial equipment is used harder than home equipment. It is your home and
> you take better care of your own stuff. Industrial equipment is used by many
> conscientious workers, but there are some out there that done care.
You've obviously never owned rental properties :^) You've still
got your idiots and your jerks that just don't give a damn
because it's not their property... I'm lucky one house didn't
burn down! And of course you've also got infants and children
in the home which you don't have in the workplace environment.
So while I understand your point, I still don't understand the
need for such a distinctly different standard in general...
unless the console is in a very damp environment perhaps.
but I don't see what this has to do with the large descrepancy
between 120 VAC wiring in the home vs an operator's console.
IMHO, it's more likely for a homeowner to replace a switch than
a console operator will tear into his console... he's just there
to operate it and in an industrial enviroment there are almost
always electricians on staff to 'fix' things.... and they ought
to be safer around 120 VAC than the average homeowner. So why
do they need a more conservative standard than a homeowner?? I
just don't get it...
Leroy Hall wrote:
> Let's take a simple 120VAC lamp for example. You know. of course, that the
plug that goes
> to the outlet has two spades, one of which is normally hot (120VAC) with
respect to earth
> ground and the other isn't? This plug will usually enter into an outlet in
one direction
> only? The small blade is the hot one, connects to the black wire inside the
outlet, the
> large one is called neutral, connected to the white wire inside the outlet.
Inside the
> lamp where these two wires connect to a light bulb is important. We normally
connect the
> neutral wire to the outside screw base of the bulb connection. Switch this,
so that the
> hot wire is connected here, and what happens? Some poor unsuspecting soul is
changing a
> light bulb standing on a damp concrete floor with bare or wet feet feet. Soon
as the bulb
> is unscrewed from the socket they touch the screw base of the bulb where it
connects to
> the lamp holder and then find out what happens after this life time, as they
are
> electrocuted. This is not to say that one cannot connect 120VAC devices to
common
> connections, it is just to say if you do, make sure you know the details.
Usually someone
> with no experience, doesn't know enough to ask the proper questions to avoid a
very costly
> mistake.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Leroy
>
Original Message
> From: "Larry Gaminde" <lgaminde@t...>
> To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 7:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Interfacing a Stamp with AC devices (not relays)
>
>
> : I'll bet what he is trying to say is there are enough people
> : on the list who blow things up with 5 volts so to give
> : anyone advice about 120 plus voltage is really stupid, All I
> : can say is it will smoke faster with higher voltage so go
> : for it. ( you may be it)
> :
> :
> :
> :
Original Message
> : From: "Michael Burr" <mburr@b...>
> : To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
> : Sent: January 20, 2003 4:06 PM
> : Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Interfacing a Stamp with AC
> : devices (not relays)
> :
> :
> : : plasmastamp@a... wrote:
> : :
> : : > No.
> : : > Your house is safe because the National Electrical
> : Council, the main code
> : : > enforcement in the US has different standards for
> : residential wiring. Your
> : : > house, does not see the use as an industrial
> : application. Translation:
> : : > Different set of Lawyers wrote the rules.
> : :
> : :
> : : Alan, I don't mean to be argumentative here, but it was
> : you (in
> : : your original post) who preceeded your statement that
> : there can
> : : be no 120 VAC on switches or lamps in operator's consoles
> : with
> : : the following statement:
> : :
> : : "When working with AC line powered circuits you need to
> : look
> : : very closely at isolation, for personal safety and circuit
> : safety."
> : :
> : : You seem to have implied there that it _IS_ a safety
> : concern...
> : : so I asked what's the difference between that and a house.
> : Now,
> : : you seem to be implying that it is not really a safety
> : concern
> : : and the requirements are due to "Lawyer's who wrote the
> : rules"
> : : (although I doubt lawyers actually wrote the rules...
> : perhaps
> : : you mean 'bureaucrat'). So I remain confussed as to what
> : point
> : : you were trying to make. Do you consider the practice
> : dangerous
> : : or merely not in compliance with the rules?
> : :
> : : Michael Burr
> : :
> : :
> : : To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> : : basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> : : from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in
> : the Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
> : :
> : :
> : : Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> : http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> : :
> : :
> :
> :
> : To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> : basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> : from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the
> message will be ignored.
> :
> :
> : Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> :
> :
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
--
Our government it seems has got a new plan...
Seize and search the private records of every man.
No warrants, no judges, no due process required,
With "Homeland Security" the 4th Amendment's retired.
"Total Information Awareness" the project is called,
Oh would our forefathers be aghast and appalled!
http://geocities.com/totalinformationawareness/
listings and such. Many console's are 120 volt. I personally
built control's for hospital equipment used in Surgery and
Central Supply area's and they were 120, 240 volt systems,
but I was remanufacturing so FDA had no control over this.
If I were to take a unit from one hospital then
remanufacture it and sell it to another hospital then the
FDA would require UL and a number of other tests and
certifications. In other words its a way around getting UL
and other type listings and going through testing
procedures.
Original Message
From: "Michael Burr" <mburr@b...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: January 21, 2003 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Interfacing a Stamp with AC
devices (not relays)
: Yeah, I understand residential wiring - did most of my own
home,
: but I don't see what this has to do with the large
descrepancy
: between 120 VAC wiring in the home vs an operator's
console.
: IMHO, it's more likely for a homeowner to replace a switch
than
: a console operator will tear into his console... he's just
there
: to operate it and in an industrial enviroment there are
almost
: always electricians on staff to 'fix' things.... and they
ought
: to be safer around 120 VAC than the average homeowner. So
why
: do they need a more conservative standard than a
homeowner?? I
: just don't get it...
:
:
: Leroy Hall wrote:
:
: > Let's take a simple 120VAC lamp for example. You know.
of course, that the plug that goes
: > to the outlet has two spades, one of which is normally
hot (120VAC) with respect to earth
: > ground and the other isn't? This plug will usually
enter into an outlet in one direction
: > only? The small blade is the hot one, connects to the
black wire inside the outlet, the
: > large one is called neutral, connected to the white wire
inside the outlet. Inside the
: > lamp where these two wires connect to a light bulb is
important. We normally connect the
: > neutral wire to the outside screw base of the bulb
connection. Switch this, so that the
: > hot wire is connected here, and what happens? Some poor
unsuspecting soul is changing a
: > light bulb standing on a damp concrete floor with bare
or wet feet feet. Soon as the bulb
: > is unscrewed from the socket they touch the screw base
of the bulb where it connects to
: > the lamp holder and then find out what happens after
this life time, as they are
: > electrocuted. This is not to say that one cannot
connect 120VAC devices to common
: > connections, it is just to say if you do, make sure you
know the details. Usually someone
: > with no experience, doesn't know enough to ask the
proper questions to avoid a very costly
: > mistake.
: >
: > Hope this helps,
: >
: > Leroy
: >
Original Message
: > From: "Larry Gaminde" <lgaminde@t...>
: > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
: > Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 7:11 PM
: > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Interfacing a Stamp with AC
devices (not relays)
: >
: >
: > : I'll bet what he is trying to say is there are enough
people
: > : on the list who blow things up with 5 volts so to give
: > : anyone advice about 120 plus voltage is really stupid,
All I
: > : can say is it will smoke faster with higher voltage so
go
: > : for it. ( you may be it)
: > :
: > :
: > :
: > :
Original Message
: > : From: "Michael Burr" <mburr@b...>
: > : To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
: > : Sent: January 20, 2003 4:06 PM
: > : Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Interfacing a Stamp with AC
: > : devices (not relays)
: > :
: > :
: > : : plasmastamp@a... wrote:
: > : :
: > : : > No.
: > : : > Your house is safe because the National Electrical
: > : Council, the main code
: > : : > enforcement in the US has different standards for
: > : residential wiring. Your
: > : : > house, does not see the use as an industrial
: > : application. Translation:
: > : : > Different set of Lawyers wrote the rules.
: > : :
: > : :
: > : : Alan, I don't mean to be argumentative here, but it
was
: > : you (in
: > : : your original post) who preceeded your statement
that
: > : there can
: > : : be no 120 VAC on switches or lamps in operator's
consoles
: > : with
: > : : the following statement:
: > : :
: > : : "When working with AC line powered circuits you need
to
: > : look
: > : : very closely at isolation, for personal safety and
circuit
: > : safety."
: > : :
: > : : You seem to have implied there that it _IS_ a safety
: > : concern...
: > : : so I asked what's the difference between that and a
house.
: > : Now,
: > : : you seem to be implying that it is not really a
safety
: > : concern
: > : : and the requirements are due to "Lawyer's who wrote
the
: > : rules"
: > : : (although I doubt lawyers actually wrote the
rules...
: > : perhaps
: > : : you mean 'bureaucrat'). So I remain confussed as to
what
: > : point
: > : : you were trying to make. Do you consider the
practice
: > : dangerous
: > : : or merely not in compliance with the rules?
: > : :
: > : : Michael Burr
: > : :
: > : :
: > : : To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
: > : : basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
: > : : from the same email address that you subscribed.
Text in
: > : the Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
: > : :
: > : :
: > : : Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
: > : http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
: > : :
: > : :
: > :
: > :
: > : To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
: > : basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
: > : from the same email address that you subscribed. Text
in the Subject and Body of the
: > message will be ignored.
: > :
: > :
: > : Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
: > :
: > :
: >
: >
: > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
: > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
: > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text
in the Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
: >
: >
: > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
: >
: >
: >
: >
:
:
:
: --
:
: Our government it seems has got a new plan...
: Seize and search the private records of every man.
: No warrants, no judges, no due process required,
: With "Homeland Security" the 4th Amendment's retired.
: "Total Information Awareness" the project is called,
: Oh would our forefathers be aghast and appalled!
:
: http://geocities.com/totalinformationawareness/
:
:
:
: To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
: basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
: from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in
the Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
:
:
: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
:
:
I do not understand the difference in the standards also.
We just have to remember that when the Government is involved the only given
is that we middle income people will pay. It wont make sense to us, but rest
assured a Congressman (Who most likely started life as a Lawyer) is behind
the regulations with PAC Lobbyist money involved.
Alan Bradford
Plasma Technologies.
[noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
can get real ridiculous. These are Government Desk Jockeys who come in and
they have to find something wrong, or they are accused of not doing their
job. Moving machinery has to have warning horns. In most factories there are
so many warning horns going off that toy cant hear anything. Then OSHA makes
you wear hearing protection from the noise. The rules don't have to make
sense. They are Government issued.
Alan Bradford
In a message dated 1/21/03 3:03:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, mburr@b...
writes:
>
> Yeah, I understand residential wiring - did most of my own home,
> but I don't see what this has to do with the large descrepancy
> between 120 VAC wiring in the home vs an operator's console.
> IMHO, it's more likely for a homeowner to replace a switch than
> a console operator will tear into his console... he's just there
> to operate it and in an industrial enviroment there are almost
> always electricians on staff to 'fix' things.... and they ought
> to be safer around 120 VAC than the average homeowner. So why
> do they need a more conservative standard than a homeowner?? I
> just don't get it...
>
>
>
[noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
own home, you'd be breaking the law if you did wiring in your friend's home.
If you aren't the owner then you need a ticket.
To do anything in a commercial environment you need an electrical ticket of
some sort. Annual permits issued to an electrician may allow
non-electricians ( under ticket holder supervision) to do simple things like
replace ballasts or put new plugs on extention cords. Thats about the only
time a non-ticket holder is allowed to touch 110.
OSHA doesn't have to pay compensation for you (or your friends) when the
home-brew electrical circuit plays 4th of July - you do. At work, they do.
Original Message
From: "Michael Burr" <mburr@b...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Interfacing a Stamp with AC devices (not relays)
> Yeah, I understand residential wiring - did most of my own home,
> but I don't see what this has to do with the large descrepancy
> between 120 VAC wiring in the home vs an operator's console.
> IMHO, it's more likely for a homeowner to replace a switch than
> a console operator will tear into his console... he's just there
> to operate it and in an industrial enviroment there are almost
> always electricians on staff to 'fix' things.... and they ought
> to be safer around 120 VAC than the average homeowner. So why
> do they need a more conservative standard than a homeowner?? I
> just don't get it...
if it does not meet code and a fire starts, the insurance company can
reject the claim.
Be neat and put any stuff in a simple electrical box. get it from
home depot or something and it will be UL listed, make sure the 110V
wires are not touching raw metal edges, wire nuts, electrical tape
that sort of thing.
your 'control' wiring will be low voltage, like a thermostat and does
not need to be 'up to code' as the low voltage stuff comes under the
radar and probably will not have enough power to cause any problems.
Dave
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Pat M <pmeloy@s...> wrote:
> There's nothing to "get" - Its government. While you can do wiring
in your
> own home, you'd be breaking the law if you did wiring in your
friend's home.
> If you aren't the owner then you need a ticket.
>
> To do anything in a commercial environment you need an electrical
ticket of
> some sort. Annual permits issued to an electrician may allow
> non-electricians ( under ticket holder supervision) to do simple
things like
> replace ballasts or put new plugs on extention cords. Thats about
the only
> time a non-ticket holder is allowed to touch 110.
>
> OSHA doesn't have to pay compensation for you (or your friends)
when the
> home-brew electrical circuit plays 4th of July - you do. At work,
they do.
>
>
Original Message
> From: "Michael Burr" <mburr@b...>
> To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 12:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Interfacing a Stamp with AC devices (not
relays)
>
>
> > Yeah, I understand residential wiring - did most of my own home,
> > but I don't see what this has to do with the large descrepancy
> > between 120 VAC wiring in the home vs an operator's console.
> > IMHO, it's more likely for a homeowner to replace a switch than
> > a console operator will tear into his console... he's just there
> > to operate it and in an industrial enviroment there are almost
> > always electricians on staff to 'fix' things.... and they ought
> > to be safer around 120 VAC than the average homeowner. So why
> > do they need a more conservative standard than a homeowner?? I
> > just don't get it...
> There's nothing to "get" - Its government.
Sigh.. I'm sure you're right and I'm guilty again of expecting
the world to be logical - my wife just laughs at me and calls me
"Spock" when I get this way... guess you all can do the same.
Michael Burr
> Another note about ANY residential wiring, your house or not.
>
> if it does not meet code and a fire starts, the insurance company can
> reject the claim.
>
> Be neat and put any stuff in a simple electrical box. get it from
> home depot or something and it will be UL listed, make sure the 110V
> wires are not touching raw metal edges, wire nuts, electrical tape
> that sort of thing.
All my work was approved by the state inspector - he liked it
better than the work the "pro" did on site :^)
Michael Burr
differences. You have an operator's control panel that can have
anywhere between dozens to (sometimes) hundreds of wire connections
using smaller much more compact switches that were designed to
control electricity inderectly in a very close space. Whereas, the
light switches and outlets in your house were designed to control
that power directly and with fewer (supposedly) connections in
properly sized space (set by NEC). If you look on lots of the larger
industrial equipment, you'll find most of them have switches that
resemble the switches in your home (though of higher grade) connected
to them. So you have to ask yourself, would you rather be the
operator sitting at a control panel pressing and flipping switches on
a panel 2 ft. x 3 ft. or 5 ft. x 12 ft.
Putting tiny switches that directly control 110/220 volts very
close together is a major hazard to the guy that has to repair
panel... not to mention trying to push that much power through a tiny
switch , like what would show up on that panel, would likely cause
the back of that panel to look like it should have been in the lab
background of "Frankenstien".
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Pat M <pmeloy@s...> wrote:
> There's nothing to "get" - Its government. While you can do wiring
in your
> own home, you'd be breaking the law if you did wiring in your
friend's home.
> If you aren't the owner then you need a ticket.
>
> To do anything in a commercial environment you need an electrical
ticket of
> some sort. Annual permits issued to an electrician may allow
> non-electricians ( under ticket holder supervision) to do simple
things like
> replace ballasts or put new plugs on extention cords. Thats about
the only
> time a non-ticket holder is allowed to touch 110.
>
> OSHA doesn't have to pay compensation for you (or your friends)
when the
> home-brew electrical circuit plays 4th of July - you do. At work,
they do.
>
>
Original Message
> From: "Michael Burr" <mburr@b...>
> To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 12:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Interfacing a Stamp with AC devices (not
relays)
>
>
> > Yeah, I understand residential wiring - did most of my own home,
> > but I don't see what this has to do with the large descrepancy
> > between 120 VAC wiring in the home vs an operator's console.
> > IMHO, it's more likely for a homeowner to replace a switch than
> > a console operator will tear into his console... he's just there
> > to operate it and in an industrial enviroment there are almost
> > always electricians on staff to 'fix' things.... and they ought
> > to be safer around 120 VAC than the average homeowner. So why
> > do they need a more conservative standard than a homeowner?? I
> > just don't get it...
>Actually, it not really a hard to understand the reason for the
>differences. You have an operator's control panel that can have
>anywhere between dozens to (sometimes) hundreds of wire connections
>using smaller much more compact switches that were designed to
>control electricity inderectly in a very close space.
<Sigh>
*Many* industrial control panels use 110 Vac as their control power
supply. I don't like it much - I'd rather use 24 Vdc (1st choice) or 24
Vac (2nd choice) but all too often, I'm required to interface my control
systems to 110 Vac controls.
I'm talking about industrial systems here: big things like punch presses,
parts washers, process ovens. Even systems controlled by PLCs are often
110 Vac - especially if the PLC was added after the machinery was initially
designed.
I used to use the equivalent of solid state relays for most of my
interfacing but now all my boards use little JS-1E relays from Aromat for
outputs. Nice little relays: 8A or 10A ratings at 120 Vac, SPDT, cost less
than a buck US in thousands. And it doesn't much matter what the control
system is: AC, DC, 24V, 110V - it just works.
So *please* don't go saying that 110 Vac is not used in operator's
panels. It is - and it *can* kill you if you aren't paying attention.
dwayne
--
Dwayne Reid <dwayner@p...>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice (780) 487-6397 fax
Celebrating 18 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2002)
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