3 Motors simultaneous positioning with SX? Lana, Earl, Selked, anode, Dave
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Posts: 46,084
Hi Lana, Earl, Selked, anode, Dave......................
Lana, I am an German, and my English is limited
I have Problems to understand Your e-mail
What is an tyer"wheel" ??
It is not in my dictionary
All the other "words" I understand resp.
thy are in the dictionary
But I don't get the meaning of the explanation.
To make my self clear:
I use 3 arms, and on the 3 arms stays the 12m
long wood. Depending on the diameter of the wood
it should be placed in an big shelf.( processor control )
If the 3 arm move not rather synchronous,
the wood my fall down.
I believe the eased, simplest would be to take an overpowered
sync 3 phase motors, as it runs on an given speed.
But still while every start and stop phase the synchronies
may be lost a bit.
A bit is no problem.
So after a long time working I my get an addition of losts or
errors and I have to synchronizes it too.
I think positioning and acceleration (speed changing) is more
difficult with an synchronous motor.
And sometimes I use only 2 Motors ( 6m Wood )
And after I have to synchronizes the 3 Motors again
without spending to much time. (going always to an
referent switch needs a long time)
Selked,
To make my self clear:
I did not thing to use PWM-command.
I thought:
First to make the Motor-Pin high
Then check the encoder
Then make the motor-pin low
Then check the encoder
Then make the motor-Pin high
And so on.....
To slow speed
I have to make the low-time longer
So I make the motor-Pin low
Start an loop to check the encoder
Plenty times
Then make the motor-Pin high
Depending on how many loops I check
the encoder (or do some other thinks)
I reduce the speed of the motor
This I believe will work. ??
What I don't know is the time I need, ??
to check the encoder to make some calculation
In the calculations to compare the speed of the
3 motors and count the revolution for positioning ??
And I don' know the minimum frequency I need to
Control the speed of an DC motor ??
And I don't know what frequency I may get from the
Stamp SX "by checking, calculating and changing Pins"
So I even don't know if the whole project has an
chance to work in this way ?
I don't like thinking to control the motors resp.
transportation of the wood manually !!
Ideas how to find the quickest code ? Or samples ?
Ideas or Info are thankful welcome Heinz from Germany
>
>
> The 3 motor-solution is more flexible and easier to build is to fix a mico
encouder WITH a tyer"wheel" with any diameter rolling fool on the moving
part( determin the desplacement for 1 motor of 3 motors)up and down, and
same for others 3 motors in and out.
>
> this way you calculat any distance( longeur) exactly with out garding the
RPM of motors,you have only used 2 encouders to control, and the h-bridge
has electrical break. i made that for a paking machine
>
> LANA
>
>
> > This is a lot like a problem I'm having. See my post from a few days
> > ago on running motors while doing other things. There is a chip made
> > by national semiconductor (LMD18200 -- pull the datasheet from
> > digikey) that has a built in H-Bridge and is set by PWM. It looks
> > like you could feed back a tachometer to either the 18200 or the
> > BS2SX to set the speed. As for speed of the SX, at 3000 rpm, the
> > motor is spinning 50 times a second. You can run a lot of
> > instructions in 20 ms.
> >
> > My problem is that I need to be able to finely adjust the position of
> > something controlled by a DC motor. So I need to send PWM to the
> > controler while watching for a switch to close. You can't do
> > anything else while running a PWM command.
> >
> > I am curious about your application. If the motors need to go the
> > same speed, why not just use one motor and connect the loads
> > mechanicly? There may also be some kind of electrical trick you
>
> *************************************************
> In a big shelf I have to position
> 12 m and 6 m long wood
>
> I need 3 motors to go up and down
> and 3 motors to move in and out.
> I thought to do it in two different processes.
>
> For the 12 m wood I use motor1 motor2 and motor3
> For the left 6m I use the motor1 +2
> For the right 6m I use motor2+3
>
> Yes I thought about mechanical solution
> But it would be a big heavy complicated stuff
> Including coupling--clutches
> The 3 motor-solution is more flexible and easier to build
>
> About PWM:
> I did not think to use PWM-command,
> I thought to make the motor pins high or low
> between the reading of the encoder.
> This would be like PW-control----?
> I don't need a big accuracy in synchronism.
>
> But I am not sure yet how to do.
> Still I am not sure about the best solution---?
>
> Selket thanks for replay Heinz
>
> *********************************************************
>
> > could do with a phase locked loop, but I was never very good with
> > analog circuits.
> >
> > Please tell me if you have any success.
> >
> > -selket
> >
> > wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > I would like to run 3 DC Motors in the same speed,
> > > independent of the load. (max 3000 r/min)
> > > AND to stop them after a given number of revolution
> > > Forward and back
> > > I would like to fix an encoder on each motor
> > > Depending on the reading of the encoder, I thought,
> > > to give each motor (with H-Bridge) a Low or a High
> > > I would get an PWM depending on the reading of the encoder ?
> > >
> > > Is the Stamp SX quick enough to read, calculate, and to change
> > outputs
> > > for the 3 motors??
> > > I have no idea how to calculate the needed time?
> > >
> > > I may could count the revolution of each motor, compare them and
> > > switch the output of each motor on or off, depending of the
> > > result of the calculation.
> > > This needs a long time
> > >
> > > I may could fix two encoder on each motor and check
> > > If each motor runs synchronous on the same encoder,
> > > or if one motor is already on the next encoder.
> > >
> > > I have read Tracy Allen "Finite State Machines"
> > > And a two-bit quadrature encoder could do it ??
> > > Or is a grey code wheel to encode it, in an code, to use
> > > for the PWM of each motor ?
> > >
> > > An acceleration of the motor speed would be not bad
> > > but not urged necessary.
> > > Also an safety switch,
> > > and an referent switch to read would be not bad too.
> > >
> > > Can the sx do it quick enough for the 3 motors?
> > >
> > > Who has experience or samples or ideas what the best way is?
> > >
> > > Tracy,
> > > do You have a "math way" to read the encoder inputs
> > > And control the motor outputs quickly ??
> > >
> > > Advices are welcome
> > > Thankfully Heinz
> >
Lana, I am an German, and my English is limited
I have Problems to understand Your e-mail
What is an tyer"wheel" ??
It is not in my dictionary
All the other "words" I understand resp.
thy are in the dictionary
But I don't get the meaning of the explanation.
To make my self clear:
I use 3 arms, and on the 3 arms stays the 12m
long wood. Depending on the diameter of the wood
it should be placed in an big shelf.( processor control )
If the 3 arm move not rather synchronous,
the wood my fall down.
I believe the eased, simplest would be to take an overpowered
sync 3 phase motors, as it runs on an given speed.
But still while every start and stop phase the synchronies
may be lost a bit.
A bit is no problem.
So after a long time working I my get an addition of losts or
errors and I have to synchronizes it too.
I think positioning and acceleration (speed changing) is more
difficult with an synchronous motor.
And sometimes I use only 2 Motors ( 6m Wood )
And after I have to synchronizes the 3 Motors again
without spending to much time. (going always to an
referent switch needs a long time)
Selked,
To make my self clear:
I did not thing to use PWM-command.
I thought:
First to make the Motor-Pin high
Then check the encoder
Then make the motor-pin low
Then check the encoder
Then make the motor-Pin high
And so on.....
To slow speed
I have to make the low-time longer
So I make the motor-Pin low
Start an loop to check the encoder
Plenty times
Then make the motor-Pin high
Depending on how many loops I check
the encoder (or do some other thinks)
I reduce the speed of the motor
This I believe will work. ??
What I don't know is the time I need, ??
to check the encoder to make some calculation
In the calculations to compare the speed of the
3 motors and count the revolution for positioning ??
And I don' know the minimum frequency I need to
Control the speed of an DC motor ??
And I don't know what frequency I may get from the
Stamp SX "by checking, calculating and changing Pins"
So I even don't know if the whole project has an
chance to work in this way ?
I don't like thinking to control the motors resp.
transportation of the wood manually !!
Ideas how to find the quickest code ? Or samples ?
Ideas or Info are thankful welcome Heinz from Germany
>
>
> The 3 motor-solution is more flexible and easier to build is to fix a mico
encouder WITH a tyer"wheel" with any diameter rolling fool on the moving
part( determin the desplacement for 1 motor of 3 motors)up and down, and
same for others 3 motors in and out.
>
> this way you calculat any distance( longeur) exactly with out garding the
RPM of motors,you have only used 2 encouders to control, and the h-bridge
has electrical break. i made that for a paking machine
>
> LANA
>
>
> > This is a lot like a problem I'm having. See my post from a few days
> > ago on running motors while doing other things. There is a chip made
> > by national semiconductor (LMD18200 -- pull the datasheet from
> > digikey) that has a built in H-Bridge and is set by PWM. It looks
> > like you could feed back a tachometer to either the 18200 or the
> > BS2SX to set the speed. As for speed of the SX, at 3000 rpm, the
> > motor is spinning 50 times a second. You can run a lot of
> > instructions in 20 ms.
> >
> > My problem is that I need to be able to finely adjust the position of
> > something controlled by a DC motor. So I need to send PWM to the
> > controler while watching for a switch to close. You can't do
> > anything else while running a PWM command.
> >
> > I am curious about your application. If the motors need to go the
> > same speed, why not just use one motor and connect the loads
> > mechanicly? There may also be some kind of electrical trick you
>
> *************************************************
> In a big shelf I have to position
> 12 m and 6 m long wood
>
> I need 3 motors to go up and down
> and 3 motors to move in and out.
> I thought to do it in two different processes.
>
> For the 12 m wood I use motor1 motor2 and motor3
> For the left 6m I use the motor1 +2
> For the right 6m I use motor2+3
>
> Yes I thought about mechanical solution
> But it would be a big heavy complicated stuff
> Including coupling--clutches
> The 3 motor-solution is more flexible and easier to build
>
> About PWM:
> I did not think to use PWM-command,
> I thought to make the motor pins high or low
> between the reading of the encoder.
> This would be like PW-control----?
> I don't need a big accuracy in synchronism.
>
> But I am not sure yet how to do.
> Still I am not sure about the best solution---?
>
> Selket thanks for replay Heinz
>
> *********************************************************
>
> > could do with a phase locked loop, but I was never very good with
> > analog circuits.
> >
> > Please tell me if you have any success.
> >
> > -selket
> >
> > wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > I would like to run 3 DC Motors in the same speed,
> > > independent of the load. (max 3000 r/min)
> > > AND to stop them after a given number of revolution
> > > Forward and back
> > > I would like to fix an encoder on each motor
> > > Depending on the reading of the encoder, I thought,
> > > to give each motor (with H-Bridge) a Low or a High
> > > I would get an PWM depending on the reading of the encoder ?
> > >
> > > Is the Stamp SX quick enough to read, calculate, and to change
> > outputs
> > > for the 3 motors??
> > > I have no idea how to calculate the needed time?
> > >
> > > I may could count the revolution of each motor, compare them and
> > > switch the output of each motor on or off, depending of the
> > > result of the calculation.
> > > This needs a long time
> > >
> > > I may could fix two encoder on each motor and check
> > > If each motor runs synchronous on the same encoder,
> > > or if one motor is already on the next encoder.
> > >
> > > I have read Tracy Allen "Finite State Machines"
> > > And a two-bit quadrature encoder could do it ??
> > > Or is a grey code wheel to encode it, in an code, to use
> > > for the PWM of each motor ?
> > >
> > > An acceleration of the motor speed would be not bad
> > > but not urged necessary.
> > > Also an safety switch,
> > > and an referent switch to read would be not bad too.
> > >
> > > Can the sx do it quick enough for the 3 motors?
> > >
> > > Who has experience or samples or ideas what the best way is?
> > >
> > > Tracy,
> > > do You have a "math way" to read the encoder inputs
> > > And control the motor outputs quickly ??
> > >
> > > Advices are welcome
> > > Thankfully Heinz
> >
Comments
wheel=somthing rolling=car wheel=circuler wheel =O RINGcouver with
caoutchouk(with "80 mm diametre" fixed on encouder shaft ).
when motor move, the wheel turn too because it has friction(touch)with a
guid,dont look to motor RPM, so the nomber of turnes of encouder (wheel)
transmet to decouder which determine the exact desplacement(distance),nomber of
signals or the place you want to go.
now you have a signal to stop the motor(dc) for any time, and go back to main
control.
why i put wheel on encouder shaft not on motor shaft? it is for elimenat the
glessement or out put RPM of motor which transported on heavy steel
wheel(friction),so any turne of steel wheel = nombers of turnes of wheel shaft
encouder to send a nombers of signals to decouder to calculat the distances you
whant.
so you may used 1 motor (3 phase) with gear 60:1 as an example, 5 hp to carry a
load of 1 tone,dont forget control circuit and clutcheif you dont need long time
stopping.
but when used DCmotor you have the same nomber RPM when star and stop motor if
the watt needed is good calculated.(plz see types of motors AC, DC,3
PHASES,etc......... to motor you need.
that what i think your automation work
sorry for limited English for me too
bestregards
LANA
HSchwenk_GMX <hschwenk@g...> wrote:Hi Lana, Earl, Selked, anode,
Dave......................
Lana, I am an German, and my English is limited
I have Problems to understand Your e-mail
What is an tyer"wheel" ??
It is not in my dictionary
All the other "words" I understand resp.
thy are in the dictionary
But I don't get the meaning of the explanation.
To make my self clear:
I use 3 arms, and on the 3 arms stays the 12m
long wood. Depending on the diameter of the wood
it should be placed in an big shelf.( processor control )
If the 3 arm move not rather synchronous,
the wood my fall down.
I believe the eased, simplest would be to take an overpowered
sync 3 phase motors, as it runs on an given speed.
But still while every start and stop phase the synchronies
may be lost a bit.
A bit is no problem.
So after a long time working I my get an addition of losts or
errors and I have to synchronizes it too.
I think positioning and acceleration (speed changing) is more
difficult with an synchronous motor.
And sometimes I use only 2 Motors ( 6m Wood )
And after I have to synchronizes the 3 Motors again
without spending to much time. (going always to an
referent switch needs a long time)
Selked,
To make my self clear:
I did not thing to use PWM-command.
I thought:
First to make the Motor-Pin high
Then check the encoder
Then make the motor-pin low
Then check the encoder
Then make the motor-Pin high
And so on.....
To slow speed
I have to make the low-time longer
So I make the motor-Pin low
Start an loop to check the encoder
Plenty times
Then make the motor-Pin high
Depending on how many loops I check
the encoder (or do some other thinks)
I reduce the speed of the motor
This I believe will work. ??
What I don't know is the time I need, ??
to check the encoder to make some calculation
In the calculations to compare the speed of the
3 motors and count the revolution for positioning ??
And I don' know the minimum frequency I need to
Control the speed of an DC motor ??
And I don't know what frequency I may get from the
Stamp SX "by checking, calculating and changing Pins"
So I even don't know if the whole project has an
chance to work in this way ?
I don't like thinking to control the motors resp.
transportation of the wood manually !!
Ideas how to find the quickest code ? Or samples ?
Ideas or Info are thankful welcome Heinz from Germany
>
>
> The 3 motor-solution is more flexible and easier to build is to fix a mico
encouder WITH a tyer"wheel" with any diameter rolling fool on the moving
part( determin the desplacement for 1 motor of 3 motors)up and down, and
same for others 3 motors in and out.
>
> this way you calculat any distance( longeur) exactly with out garding the
RPM of motors,you have only used 2 encouders to control, and the h-bridge
has electrical break. i made that for a paking machine
>
> LANA
>
>
> > This is a lot like a problem I'm having. See my post from a few days
> > ago on running motors while doing other things. There is a chip made
> > by national semiconductor (LMD18200 -- pull the datasheet from
> > digikey) that has a built in H-Bridge and is set by PWM. It looks
> > like you could feed back a tachometer to either the 18200 or the
> > BS2SX to set the speed. As for speed of the SX, at 3000 rpm, the
> > motor is spinning 50 times a second. You can run a lot of
> > instructions in 20 ms.
> >
> > My problem is that I need to be able to finely adjust the position of
> > something controlled by a DC motor. So I need to send PWM to the
> > controler while watching for a switch to close. You can't do
> > anything else while running a PWM command.
> >
> > I am curious about your application. If the motors need to go the
> > same speed, why not just use one motor and connect the loads
> > mechanicly? There may also be some kind of electrical trick you
>
> *************************************************
> In a big shelf I have to position
> 12 m and 6 m long wood
>
> I need 3 motors to go up and down
> and 3 motors to move in and out.
> I thought to do it in two different processes.
>
> For the 12 m wood I use motor1 motor2 and motor3
> For the left 6m I use the motor1 +2
> For the right 6m I use motor2+3
>
> Yes I thought about mechanical solution
> But it would be a big heavy complicated stuff
> Including coupling--clutches
> The 3 motor-solution is more flexible and easier to build
>
> About PWM:
> I did not think to use PWM-command,
> I thought to make the motor pins high or low
> between the reading of the encoder.
> This would be like PW-control----?
> I don't need a big accuracy in synchronism.
>
> But I am not sure yet how to do.
> Still I am not sure about the best solution---?
>
> Selket thanks for replay Heinz
>
> *********************************************************
>
> > could do with a phase locked loop, but I was never very good with
> > analog circuits.
> >
> > Please tell me if you have any success.
> >
> > -selket
> >
> > wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > I would like to run 3 DC Motors in the same speed,
> > > independent of the load. (max 3000 r/min)
> > > AND to stop them after a given number of revolution
> > > Forward and back
> > > I would like to fix an encoder on each motor
> > > Depending on the reading of the encoder, I thought,
> > > to give each motor (with H-Bridge) a Low or a High
> > > I would get an PWM depending on the reading of the encoder ?
> > >
> > > Is the Stamp SX quick enough to read, calculate, and to change
> > outputs
> > > for the 3 motors??
> > > I have no idea how to calculate the needed time?
> > >
> > > I may could count the revolution of each motor, compare them and
> > > switch the output of each motor on or off, depending of the
> > > result of the calculation.
> > > This needs a long time
> > >
> > > I may could fix two encoder on each motor and check
> > > If each motor runs synchronous on the same encoder,
> > > or if one motor is already on the next encoder.
> > >
> > > I have read Tracy Allen "Finite State Machines"
> > > And a two-bit quadrature encoder could do it ??
> > > Or is a grey code wheel to encode it, in an code, to use
> > > for the PWM of each motor ?
> > >
> > > An acceleration of the motor speed would be not bad
> > > but not urged necessary.
> > > Also an safety switch,
> > > and an referent switch to read would be not bad too.
> > >
> > > Can the sx do it quick enough for the 3 motors?
> > >
> > > Who has experience or samples or ideas what the best way is?
> > >
> > > Tracy,
> > > do You have a "math way" to read the encoder inputs
> > > And control the motor outputs quickly ??
> > >
> > > Advices are welcome
> > > Thankfully Heinz
> >
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