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Help with small solenoid — Parallax Forums

Help with small solenoid

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2003-01-18 22:26 in General Discussion
Hi,
I am trying to design a circuit to trigger a small solenoid
controlled by a stamp. I think I found the solenoid that I want to
use and also just got the MOSFET's from glitchbuster.com. The specs
on the solenoid is 9v, 325 ohms, 4.5 watts which I hope to power with
a standard 9v alkaline battery. I have been advised that the 9v
battery may not have sufficient current to get the solenoid moving
and have seen similar circuits that use a capacitor to give solenoids
an additional boost by storing electrical energy for the inital
push. Any ideas or leads to where I could get more info? I have no
idea what value cap I need or where to incorporate it into the
circuit. Thanks

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-01-14 08:17
    Hi
    Something wrong with your spec for the solenoid can't be 4.5W @ 9 VDC,
    AND with a resistance 325 Ohms. If it is 325 Ohms then at 9 VDC in will
    consume 9/325= 0.0276 Amps, which equates to (I^2 * R) 0.00077 * 9 =
    0.249 Watts.
    4.5 watts from a 9volt battery over any period of time is not really
    "do-able", but 0.249w is. Check the Voltage of the solenoid,
    but more info on intended duty cycle of solenoid required etc.

    Rob

    Original Message
    From: outrigger19a <hilokine@g...> [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=agVaKcb1G92C_3wRuCoH-mpadkdP4i0L835GPyaF9g62b1rE_4Lq3W-4Ayb2yNrHAjQQkPvQdMlS]hilokine@g...[/url
    Sent: 14 January 2003 01:15
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Help with small solenoid

    Hi,
    I am trying to design a circuit to trigger a small solenoid
    controlled by a stamp. I think I found the solenoid that I want to
    use and also just got the MOSFET's from glitchbuster.com. The specs
    on the solenoid is 9v, 325 ohms, 4.5 watts which I hope to power with
    a standard 9v alkaline battery. I have been advised that the 9v
    battery may not have sufficient current to get the solenoid moving
    and have seen similar circuits that use a capacitor to give solenoids
    an additional boost by storing electrical energy for the inital
    push. Any ideas or leads to where I could get more info? I have no
    idea what value cap I need or where to incorporate it into the
    circuit. Thanks


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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-01-14 19:41
    Mistake :
    which equates to (I^2 * R) 0.00077 * 9 = 0.249 Watts.

    Should Be :
    which equates to (I^2 * R) 0.00077 * 325 = 0.249 Watts.

    Ps I've built a unit that might interest you, It was for the Kick down
    auto transmission on my 69 Mustang. I couldn't find a proper kickdown
    linkage here in the UK, So I made an "electronic" one. The problem I had
    was that the 12 Volt solenoid I used didn't have enough "pull" at the
    end of its travel. So made a Voltage doubling circuit to give it a
    momentary 24V (appox) for about 1 second. You only need 1 DPCO relay, 1
    capacitor, and a resistor. You could do it a transistor bridge, but this
    was simple and crude, and has been working with out fault for the last 2
    years. If you want more details let me know.

    Rob

    Hi
    Something wrong with your spec for the solenoid can't be 4.5W @ 9 VDC,
    AND with a resistance 325 Ohms. If it is 325 Ohms then at 9 VDC in will
    consume 9/325= 0.0276 Amps, which equates to (I^2 * R) 0.00077 * 9 =
    0.249 Watts. 4.5 watts from a 9volt battery over any period of time is
    not really "do-able", but 0.249w is. Check the Voltage of the solenoid,
    but more info on intended duty cycle of solenoid required etc.

    Rob
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-01-14 23:12
    Hi ROb,
    My error, the 325 is approx. ampere turns (what ever that is). After
    more careful reading, the correct resistance is listed as 18.9 ohms.
    It has a 100% duty cycle but will actually be used with many very
    quick cycles (<30ms) for a few minutes at a time and then periods of
    rest in between. Does this look any better? As I mentioned, the
    solenoid would not be "on" for long duration but repeated rapid
    cycles. I've seen similar circuits also powered by a 9v but not sure
    what the rating for those solenoids are or where I could acquire
    them. The only solenoids that I have been able to locate are these...
    Due to space limitations, I can only have a single 9v battery so
    hoping that someone can figure out this capacitor boost thing. Thanks


    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Rob" <robbed666@b...> wrote:
    >
    >
    > Mistake :
    > which equates to (I^2 * R) 0.00077 * 9 = 0.249 Watts.
    >
    > Should Be :
    > which equates to (I^2 * R) 0.00077 * 325 = 0.249 Watts.
    >
    > Ps I've built a unit that might interest you, It was for the Kick
    down
    > auto transmission on my 69 Mustang. I couldn't find a proper
    kickdown
    > linkage here in the UK, So I made an "electronic" one. The problem
    I had
    > was that the 12 Volt solenoid I used didn't have enough "pull" at
    the
    > end of its travel. So made a Voltage doubling circuit to give it a
    > momentary 24V (appox) for about 1 second. You only need 1 DPCO
    relay, 1
    > capacitor, and a resistor. You could do it a transistor bridge, but
    this
    > was simple and crude, and has been working with out fault for the
    last 2
    > years. If you want more details let me know.
    >
    > Rob
    >
    > Hi
    > Something wrong with your spec for the solenoid can't be 4.5W @ 9
    VDC,
    > AND with a resistance 325 Ohms. If it is 325 Ohms then at 9 VDC in
    will
    > consume 9/325= 0.0276 Amps, which equates to (I^2 * R) 0.00077 * 9 =
    > 0.249 Watts. 4.5 watts from a 9volt battery over any period of
    time is
    > not really "do-able", but 0.249w is. Check the Voltage of the
    solenoid,
    > but more info on intended duty cycle of solenoid required etc.
    >
    > Rob
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-01-15 02:24
    In a message dated 1/13/03 8:15:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, hilokine@g...
    writes:


    > Hi,
    > I am trying to design a circuit to trigger a small solenoid
    > controlled by a stamp. I think I found the solenoid that I want to
    > use and also just got the MOSFET's from glitchbuster.com. The specs
    > on the solenoid is 9v, 325 ohms, 4.5 watts which I hope to power with
    > a standard 9v alkaline battery. I have been advised that the 9v
    > battery may not have sufficient current to get the solenoid moving
    > and have seen similar circuits that use a capacitor to give solenoids
    > an additional boost by storing electrical energy for the inital
    > push. Any ideas or leads to where I could get more info? I have no
    > idea what value cap I need or where to incorporate it into the
    > circuit. Thanks
    >

    The first question I would like to ask is "how many times do you expect the
    solenoid to actuate from that 9V battery?" Solenoids do require a lot of
    initial current to start actuation and yes, a capacitor will help but you may
    only get 2 or 3 firings before the battery goes dead. Even with the
    capacitor, the current requirement for the battery is still there.

    Let's see, 4.5 watts divided by 9V gives us 0.5 amps needed for nominal
    operation of the solenoid at 9 Volts, DC That battery isn't going to do much
    for you. You can put several of them in parallel to increase the amount of
    current available and that will help.

    Hope this is of some help to you.

    Regards,

    Randy Abernathy
    4626 Old Stilesboro Road
    Acworth, GA 30101
    Phone / Fax: 770-974-5295
    E-mail: cnc002@a...
    We service, install and repair industrial woodworking machinery
    Specializing in SCM / SCMI CNC Panel Saws and Routers


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-01-15 06:04
    Thanks, I guess I had better keep searching for another solenoid. As
    I mentioned, there are currently commercial units available. My
    thinking is that it would be more rewarding and chanllenging to
    design my own version. Anyone know of a source for 9v tubular
    solenoids?

    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, cnc002@a... wrote:
    > In a message dated 1/13/03 8:15:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
    hilokine@g...
    > writes:
    >
    >
    > > Hi,
    > > I am trying to design a circuit to trigger a small solenoid
    > > controlled by a stamp. I think I found the solenoid that I want
    to
    > > use and also just got the MOSFET's from glitchbuster.com. The
    specs
    > > on the solenoid is 9v, 325 ohms, 4.5 watts which I hope to power
    with
    > > a standard 9v alkaline battery. I have been advised that the 9v
    > > battery may not have sufficient current to get the solenoid
    moving
    > > and have seen similar circuits that use a capacitor to give
    solenoids
    > > an additional boost by storing electrical energy for the inital
    > > push. Any ideas or leads to where I could get more info? I have
    no
    > > idea what value cap I need or where to incorporate it into the
    > > circuit. Thanks
    > >
    >
    > The first question I would like to ask is "how many times do you
    expect the
    > solenoid to actuate from that 9V battery?" Solenoids do require a
    lot of
    > initial current to start actuation and yes, a capacitor will help
    but you may
    > only get 2 or 3 firings before the battery goes dead. Even with
    the
    > capacitor, the current requirement for the battery is still there.
    >
    > Let's see, 4.5 watts divided by 9V gives us 0.5 amps needed for
    nominal
    > operation of the solenoid at 9 Volts, DC That battery isn't going
    to do much
    > for you. You can put several of them in parallel to increase the
    amount of
    > current available and that will help.
    >
    > Hope this is of some help to you.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Randy Abernathy
    > 4626 Old Stilesboro Road
    > Acworth, GA 30101
    > Phone / Fax: 770-974-5295
    > E-mail: cnc002@a...
    > We service, install and repair industrial woodworking machinery
    > Specializing in SCM / SCMI CNC Panel Saws and Routers
    >
    >
    > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-01-15 07:27
    At 06:04 AM 1/15/03 +0000, outrigger19a <hilokine@g...> wrote:
    >Thanks, I guess I had better keep searching for another solenoid. As
    >I mentioned, there are currently commercial units available. My
    >thinking is that it would be more rewarding and chanllenging to
    >design my own version. Anyone know of a source for 9v tubular
    >solenoids?
    What is it that you are attempting to actuate ? A solenoid may not be the
    most suitable device for the job. Depending on your needs, a rotary actuator
    with a cam, may provide the kind of linear displacement that you need with far
    less current consumption, and little or no start-up penalty.
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-01-15 14:12
    > Anyone know of a source for 9v tubular solenoids?

    http://www.mcmaster.com
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-01-15 17:06
    http://solenoidcity.com/solenoid/solenoidcatalog.htm

    You should be able to find all the spec sheets for all
    different sizes here.
    what I found that a 6 volt solenoid intermittent is really a
    3 volt continuous duty.
    They play with the time of actuation by using a larger
    voltage on there continuous duty solenoids


    Original Message
    From: <hilokine@g...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: January 14, 2003 10:04 PM
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Help with small solenoid


    : Thanks, I guess I had better keep searching for another
    solenoid. As
    : I mentioned, there are currently commercial units
    available. My
    : thinking is that it would be more rewarding and
    chanllenging to
    : design my own version. Anyone know of a source for 9v
    tubular
    : solenoids?
    :
    : --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, cnc002@a... wrote:
    : > In a message dated 1/13/03 8:15:38 PM Eastern Standard
    Time,
    : hilokine@g...
    : > writes:
    : >
    : >
    : > > Hi,
    : > > I am trying to design a circuit to trigger a small
    solenoid
    : > > controlled by a stamp. I think I found the solenoid
    that I want
    : to
    : > > use and also just got the MOSFET's from
    glitchbuster.com. The
    : specs
    : > > on the solenoid is 9v, 325 ohms, 4.5 watts which I
    hope to power
    : with
    : > > a standard 9v alkaline battery. I have been advised
    that the 9v
    : > > battery may not have sufficient current to get the
    solenoid
    : moving
    : > > and have seen similar circuits that use a capacitor to
    give
    : solenoids
    : > > an additional boost by storing electrical energy for
    the inital
    : > > push. Any ideas or leads to where I could get more
    info? I have
    : no
    : > > idea what value cap I need or where to incorporate it
    into the
    : > > circuit. Thanks
    : > >
    : >
    : > The first question I would like to ask is "how many
    times do you
    : expect the
    : > solenoid to actuate from that 9V battery?" Solenoids do
    require a
    : lot of
    : > initial current to start actuation and yes, a capacitor
    will help
    : but you may
    : > only get 2 or 3 firings before the battery goes dead.
    Even with
    : the
    : > capacitor, the current requirement for the battery is
    still there.
    : >
    : > Let's see, 4.5 watts divided by 9V gives us 0.5 amps
    needed for
    : nominal
    : > operation of the solenoid at 9 Volts, DC That battery
    isn't going
    : to do much
    : > for you. You can put several of them in parallel to
    increase the
    : amount of
    : > current available and that will help.
    : >
    : > Hope this is of some help to you.
    : >
    : > Regards,
    : >
    : > Randy Abernathy
    : > 4626 Old Stilesboro Road
    : > Acworth, GA 30101
    : > Phone / Fax: 770-974-5295
    : > E-mail: cnc002@a...
    : > We service, install and repair industrial woodworking
    machinery
    : > Specializing in SCM / SCMI CNC Panel Saws and Routers
    : >
    : >
    : > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    :
    :
    : To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    : basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    : from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in
    the Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
    :
    :
    : Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    :
    :
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-01-18 20:58
    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Bates <bvbates@u...> wrote:
    > At 06:04 AM 1/15/03 +0000, outrigger19a <hilokine@g...> wrote:
    > >Thanks, I guess I had better keep searching for another solenoid.
    As
    > >I mentioned, there are currently commercial units available. My
    > >thinking is that it would be more rewarding and chanllenging to
    > >design my own version. Anyone know of a source for 9v tubular
    > >solenoids?
    > What is it that you are attempting to actuate ? A solenoid may not
    be the
    > most suitable device for the job. Depending on your needs, a rotary
    actuator
    > with a cam, may provide the kind of linear displacement that you
    need with far
    > less current consumption, and little or no start-up penalty.
    @@@@@@@@
    Hi Bruce,
    Unfortunately, I need a really rapid actuation because I hope to have
    that solenoid activate and deactivate at least 10 cycles per second.
    Sounds farfetched but as I mentioned, there are current commercially
    produced versions available. Problem is they were probably designed
    by electronic genius's which I am not...
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-01-18 21:14
    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Gaminde" <lgaminde@t...>
    wrote:
    > http://solenoidcity.com/solenoid/solenoidcatalog.htm
    >
    > You should be able to find all the spec sheets for all
    > different sizes here.
    > what I found that a 6 volt solenoid intermittent is really a
    > 3 volt continuous duty.
    > They play with the time of actuation by using a larger
    > voltage on there continuous duty solenoids
    >
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: <hilokine@g...>
    > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: January 14, 2003 10:04 PM
    > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Help with small solenoid
    >
    >
    > : Thanks, I guess I had better keep searching for another
    > solenoid. As
    > : I mentioned, there are currently commercial units
    > available. My
    > : thinking is that it would be more rewarding and
    > chanllenging to
    > : design my own version. Anyone know of a source for 9v
    > tubular
    > : solenoids?
    > :
    > : --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, cnc002@a... wrote:
    > : > In a message dated 1/13/03 8:15:38 PM Eastern Standard
    > Time,
    > : hilokine@g...
    > : > writes:
    > : >
    > : >
    > : > > Hi,
    > : > > I am trying to design a circuit to trigger a small
    > solenoid
    > : > > controlled by a stamp. I think I found the solenoid
    > that I want
    > : to
    > : > > use and also just got the MOSFET's from
    > glitchbuster.com. The
    > : specs
    > : > > on the solenoid is 9v, 325 ohms, 4.5 watts which I
    > hope to power
    > : with
    > : > > a standard 9v alkaline battery. I have been advised
    > that the 9v
    > : > > battery may not have sufficient current to get the
    > solenoid
    > : moving
    > : > > and have seen similar circuits that use a capacitor to
    > give
    > : solenoids
    > : > > an additional boost by storing electrical energy for
    > the inital
    > : > > push. Any ideas or leads to where I could get more
    > info? I have
    > : no
    > : > > idea what value cap I need or where to incorporate it
    > into the
    > : > > circuit. Thanks
    > : > >
    > : >
    > : > The first question I would like to ask is "how many
    > times do you
    > : expect the
    > : > solenoid to actuate from that 9V battery?" Solenoids do
    > require a
    > : lot of
    > : > initial current to start actuation and yes, a capacitor
    > will help
    > : but you may
    > : > only get 2 or 3 firings before the battery goes dead.
    > Even with
    > : the
    > : > capacitor, the current requirement for the battery is
    > still there.
    > : >
    > : > Let's see, 4.5 watts divided by 9V gives us 0.5 amps
    > needed for
    > : nominal
    > : > operation of the solenoid at 9 Volts, DC That battery
    > isn't going
    > : to do much
    > : > for you. You can put several of them in parallel to
    > increase the
    > : amount of
    > : > current available and that will help.
    > : >
    > : > Hope this is of some help to you.
    > : >
    > : > Regards,
    > : >
    > : > Randy Abernathy
    > : > 4626 Old Stilesboro Road
    > : > Acworth, GA 30101
    > : > Phone / Fax: 770-974-5295
    > : > E-mail: cnc002@a...
    > : > We service, install and repair industrial woodworking
    > machinery
    > : > Specializing in SCM / SCMI CNC Panel Saws and Routers
    > : >
    > : >
    > : > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    > :
    > :
    > : To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > : basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > : from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in
    > the Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
    > :
    > :
    > : Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > :
    > :
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-01-18 22:26
    Hi Larry,
    Thanks for your reply and actually, that's the solenoids that I had
    been looking at. I called the manufacturer and described my useage
    and they recommended the 100% duty cycle. Looking at the specs, I
    noticed that the longer duty cycle solenoids require less current but
    also less force. In your message, are you saying that the 9v 100%
    duty cycle is actually an 18v lesser duty? Do you know there would
    be any advantage to interchanging them? Thanks
    @@@@@@@
    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Gaminde" <lgaminde@t...>
    wrote:
    > http://solenoidcity.com/solenoid/solenoidcatalog.htm
    >
    > You should be able to find all the spec sheets for all
    > different sizes here.
    > what I found that a 6 volt solenoid intermittent is really a
    > 3 volt continuous duty.
    > They play with the time of actuation by using a larger
    > voltage on there continuous duty solenoids
    >
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: <hilokine@g...>
    > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: January 14, 2003 10:04 PM
    > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Help with small solenoid
    >
    >
    > : Thanks, I guess I had better keep searching for another
    > solenoid. As
    > : I mentioned, there are currently commercial units
    > available. My
    > : thinking is that it would be more rewarding and
    > chanllenging to
    > : design my own version. Anyone know of a source for 9v
    > tubular
    > : solenoids?
    > :
    > : --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, cnc002@a... wrote:
    > : > In a message dated 1/13/03 8:15:38 PM Eastern Standard
    > Time,
    > : hilokine@g...
    > : > writes:
    > : >
    > : >
    > : > > Hi,
    > : > > I am trying to design a circuit to trigger a small
    > solenoid
    > : > > controlled by a stamp. I think I found the solenoid
    > that I want
    > : to
    > : > > use and also just got the MOSFET's from
    > glitchbuster.com. The
    > : specs
    > : > > on the solenoid is 9v, 325 ohms, 4.5 watts which I
    > hope to power
    > : with
    > : > > a standard 9v alkaline battery. I have been advised
    > that the 9v
    > : > > battery may not have sufficient current to get the
    > solenoid
    > : moving
    > : > > and have seen similar circuits that use a capacitor to
    > give
    > : solenoids
    > : > > an additional boost by storing electrical energy for
    > the inital
    > : > > push. Any ideas or leads to where I could get more
    > info? I have
    > : no
    > : > > idea what value cap I need or where to incorporate it
    > into the
    > : > > circuit. Thanks
    > : > >
    > : >
    > : > The first question I would like to ask is "how many
    > times do you
    > : expect the
    > : > solenoid to actuate from that 9V battery?" Solenoids do
    > require a
    > : lot of
    > : > initial current to start actuation and yes, a capacitor
    > will help
    > : but you may
    > : > only get 2 or 3 firings before the battery goes dead.
    > Even with
    > : the
    > : > capacitor, the current requirement for the battery is
    > still there.
    > : >
    > : > Let's see, 4.5 watts divided by 9V gives us 0.5 amps
    > needed for
    > : nominal
    > : > operation of the solenoid at 9 Volts, DC That battery
    > isn't going
    > : to do much
    > : > for you. You can put several of them in parallel to
    > increase the
    > : amount of
    > : > current available and that will help.
    > : >
    > : > Hope this is of some help to you.
    > : >
    > : > Regards,
    > : >
    > : > Randy Abernathy
    > : > 4626 Old Stilesboro Road
    > : > Acworth, GA 30101
    > : > Phone / Fax: 770-974-5295
    > : > E-mail: cnc002@a...
    > : > We service, install and repair industrial woodworking
    > machinery
    > : > Specializing in SCM / SCMI CNC Panel Saws and Routers
    > : >
    > : >
    > : > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    > :
    > :
    > : To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > : basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > : from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in
    > the Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
    > :
    > :
    > : Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > :
    > :
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