Frozen Battery update
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Posts: 46,084
I was able to revive my frozen battery just by placing it on the
charger for a few days. It took a day before it started to charge but
once it broke down the sulfates on the plates it really started to take
a decent charge.
No pulser was needed. Just a cheap shumacher charger. Save your stamps
for furnace filter reminders : )
Jason
charger for a few days. It took a day before it started to charge but
once it broke down the sulfates on the plates it really started to take
a decent charge.
No pulser was needed. Just a cheap shumacher charger. Save your stamps
for furnace filter reminders : )
Jason
Comments
on a charger.
They can explode and you can be severely injured or killed. This
warning is normally found in every battery charger manual.
When in the Navy and attending electronics school, the instructors had
stated that for each warning that was placed in the manual someone had
died. That if we should die, from some new blunder on our part, an
appropriate warning would be added in the future.
Made sense to me, I read and adhere to warnings.
Jason I'd recommend you for a Darwinian award but I see that you are
still alive.
Desulfators are not a cure for frozen batteries. Desulfators remove the
large sulfate crystal growths that cannot be removed by charging. These
are the crystal formations that eventually grow to the point of lead
acid battery failure and accounts for over 80% of the failure modes.
If you would like to see the crystals with your naked eye, go out at
night and shine a flashlight down into a flooded cell. If your battery
is along the path to this type of failure you will see something pretty
like diamond dust that sparkles.
I am always disappointed in people that run around attempting to
dissuade folks from learning or trying anything new.
"jbirnsch " wrote:
>
> I was able to revive my frozen battery just by placing it on the
> charger for a few days. It took a day before it started to charge but
> once it broke down the sulfates on the plates it really started to take
> a decent charge.
>
> No pulser was needed. Just a cheap shumacher charger. Save your stamps
> for furnace filter reminders : )
>
> Jason
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I thawed the battery before I placed it on the charger. I also topped
it off with water to the fill line for each cell. The plates were
deposited with a white looking growth. I set the charger to 2A charge
ant left it there for a day. At first it took very little charge,
around 40mA but after a couple hours it was up to 400mA. The next day I
set it to 10 A charge. I left it there for 2 days. By the end of the
second day the battery was bubbling and slightly warm. Now when I
looked at the plates they were clean and free from deposits. Installed
it into the snowmobile and it started right up.
Where do you see the danger in this????
Yes, lead acid battery's will explode but only if a spark is generated
while charging at high amp rating like 50 A. It will ignite the
hydrogen gas from the charging process.
Any time a person jump starts a car there at risk of an explosion.
All as I am saying that sometimes you get lucky and save a few bucks.
Darwin award!!!!! Whatever.......
I grew up on a dairy farm. If anyone had more a chance to get maimed or
killed it would be me. I still have all of my fingers and toes.
Jason
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Don Denhardt <dondenhardt@y...>
wrote:
> Please folks - Do not follow Jason's example by placing a frozen battery
> on a charger.
>
> They can explode and you can be severely injured or killed. This
> warning is normally found in every battery charger manual.
>
> When in the Navy and attending electronics school, the instructors had
> stated that for each warning that was placed in the manual someone had
> died. That if we should die, from some new blunder on our part, an
> appropriate warning would be added in the future.
>
> Made sense to me, I read and adhere to warnings.
>
> Jason I'd recommend you for a Darwinian award but I see that you are
> still alive.
>
> Desulfators are not a cure for frozen batteries. Desulfators remove the
> large sulfate crystal growths that cannot be removed by charging. These
> are the crystal formations that eventually grow to the point of lead
> acid battery failure and accounts for over 80% of the failure modes.
>
> If you would like to see the crystals with your naked eye, go out at
> night and shine a flashlight down into a flooded cell. If your battery
> is along the path to this type of failure you will see something pretty
> like diamond dust that sparkles.
>
> I am always disappointed in people that run around attempting to
> dissuade folks from learning or trying anything new.
>
>
>
>
>
> "jbirnsch " wrote:
> >
> > I was able to revive my frozen battery just by placing it on the
> > charger for a few days. It took a day before it started to charge but
> > once it broke down the sulfates on the plates it really started to take
> > a decent charge.
> >
> > No pulser was needed. Just a cheap shumacher charger. Save your stamps
> > for furnace filter reminders : )
> >
> > Jason
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/
terms/
it constituted an incomplete procedure that is a well known recipe for
disaster.
You may find in the future it is best not to add distilled water to the
full mark prior to recharging operations. Should the battery achieve a
gaseous state, some of the bubbles will cling to the plates and
separators.
This results in displacing electrolyte, blowing electrolyte out the
vents if you have forgotten to remove the vent caps. Or just
overflowing electrolyte. Usually it is best to refrain from adding
distilled water until the battery is gassing or has just finished the
charge cycle. It is ok to cover exposed plates though.
Frozen batteries can explode when electrolyte in the center which has
not been frozen gasses and builds up enormous pressures.
All that is required for a volatile hydrogen/oxygen pocket to form
around a battery is for the charging voltage to be in the gassing
range. Batteries can gas at low amperage charge rates if they are at a
fairly high State of Charge (SOC).
Usually when jump starting a car, if there is any kind of a wind
present, it will sweep volatile gases away and you are safe. The hazard
occurs when you attempt this in a garage or a day that there is little
to no air movement.
"jbirnsch " wrote:
>
> Don,
>
> I thawed the battery before I placed it on the charger. I also topped
> it off with water to the fill line for each cell. The plates were
> deposited with a white looking growth. I set the charger to 2A charge
> ant left it there for a day. At first it took very little charge,
> around 40mA but after a couple hours it was up to 400mA. The next day I
> set it to 10 A charge. I left it there for 2 days. By the end of the
> second day the battery was bubbling and slightly warm. Now when I
> looked at the plates they were clean and free from deposits. Installed
> it into the snowmobile and it started right up.
>
> Where do you see the danger in this????
>
> Yes, lead acid battery's will explode but only if a spark is generated
> while charging at high amp rating like 50 A. It will ignite the
> hydrogen gas from the charging process.
>
> Any time a person jump starts a car there at risk of an explosion.
>
> All as I am saying that sometimes you get lucky and save a few bucks.
>
> Darwin award!!!!! Whatever.......
>
> I grew up on a dairy farm. If anyone had more a chance to get maimed or
> killed it would be me. I still have all of my fingers and toes.
>
> Jason
>
> --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Don Denhardt <dondenhardt@y...>
> wrote:
> > Please folks - Do not follow Jason's example by placing a frozen battery
> > on a charger.
> >
> > They can explode and you can be severely injured or killed. This
> > warning is normally found in every battery charger manual.
> >
> > When in the Navy and attending electronics school, the instructors had
> > stated that for each warning that was placed in the manual someone had
> > died. That if we should die, from some new blunder on our part, an
> > appropriate warning would be added in the future.
> >
> > Made sense to me, I read and adhere to warnings.
> >
> > Jason I'd recommend you for a Darwinian award but I see that you are
> > still alive.
> >
> > Desulfators are not a cure for frozen batteries. Desulfators remove the
> > large sulfate crystal growths that cannot be removed by charging. These
> > are the crystal formations that eventually grow to the point of lead
> > acid battery failure and accounts for over 80% of the failure modes.
> >
> > If you would like to see the crystals with your naked eye, go out at
> > night and shine a flashlight down into a flooded cell. If your battery
> > is along the path to this type of failure you will see something pretty
> > like diamond dust that sparkles.
> >
> > I am always disappointed in people that run around attempting to
> > dissuade folks from learning or trying anything new.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "jbirnsch " wrote:
> > >
> > > I was able to revive my frozen battery just by placing it on the
> > > charger for a few days. It took a day before it started to charge but
> > > once it broke down the sulfates on the plates it really started to take
> > > a decent charge.
> > >
> > > No pulser was needed. Just a cheap shumacher charger. Save your stamps
> > > for furnace filter reminders : )
> > >
> > > Jason
> > >
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/
> terms/
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I would assume that the battery had not died from sulphantion from
normal use.
I would also assume that the battery was in good condition before it
became frozen. it may not have had a good charge, but it must not
have been insulated with highly sulphenated deposits.
Obviously, the battey did not suffer catastrophic mechanical failure
from the freezing. it MAY have suffered stress fractures.
What I can figure out from the posts is that
A) deposits DO revert or should I say, the sulphur changes phase from
a crystaline solid to a dissolved form. The presence of white
deposits and lack of them after chargeing indicate that.
need to be. and are often smart enough to think the problem all the
way thru. Those who not think it all the way thru offer use neat
catch phrases like don't run with sizzors. or check the polarity of
the cap before you apply power. Puts new meaning into "you are only
as safe as your most unsafe act"
C) Jason has multiple setting on his charger. I have a trickle
charger for my motorcycle and a 30 amp fully automatic for my car.
D) we don't have any "Ted Kennedy" awards for people who happen to
kill others by their dumb mistakes. I don't think battery charging
constitues a nomination for a Darwin award, unless you were doing in
the charging in the basement next to your open paint thinner, while
doing a whole body indoor tanning with a kerosene based tanning gel,
and ignoring the hissing from your home made hydrogen fuelcell
hydrogen generator and then tapping the wires from the charger to
test polarity. On your wife's birthday.
Now my question.
I was told that when you take your dead battery to the service
station and they put on the 50amp or 250 amp charger, it will weaken
or destroy it.
Accepting that non-bonded, non-crystalized sulphur deposits will be
be flaked off, not re-disolved, what else would this do ?
Do we expose ourselves to the same problem with our gel cells ?
Dave
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "jbirnsch <jbirnsch@v...>"
<jbirnsch@v...> wrote:
> Don,
>
> I thawed the battery before I placed it on the charger. I also
topped
> it off with water to the fill line for each cell. The plates were
> deposited with a white looking growth. I set the charger to 2A
charge
> ant left it there for a day. At first it took very little charge,
> around 40mA but after a couple hours it was up to 400mA. The next
day I
> set it to 10 A charge. I left it there for 2 days. By the end of
the
> second day the battery was bubbling and slightly warm. Now when I
> looked at the plates they were clean and free from deposits.
Installed
> it into the snowmobile and it started right up.
>
> Where do you see the danger in this????
>
> Yes, lead acid battery's will explode but only if a spark is
generated
> while charging at high amp rating like 50 A. It will ignite the
> hydrogen gas from the charging process.
>
> Any time a person jump starts a car there at risk of an explosion.
>
> All as I am saying that sometimes you get lucky and save a few
bucks.
>
> Darwin award!!!!! Whatever.......
>
> I grew up on a dairy farm. If anyone had more a chance to get
maimed or
> killed it would be me. I still have all of my fingers and toes.
>
> Jason
>
> --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Don Denhardt <dondenhardt@y...>
> wrote:
> > Please folks - Do not follow Jason's example by placing a frozen
battery
> > on a charger.
> >
> > They can explode and you can be severely injured or killed. This
> > warning is normally found in every battery charger manual.
> >
> > When in the Navy and attending electronics school, the
instructors had
> > stated that for each warning that was placed in the manual
someone had
> > died. That if we should die, from some new blunder on our part,
an
> > appropriate warning would be added in the future.
> >
> > Made sense to me, I read and adhere to warnings.
> >
> > Jason I'd recommend you for a Darwinian award but I see that you
are
> > still alive.
> >
> > Desulfators are not a cure for frozen batteries. Desulfators
remove the
> > large sulfate crystal growths that cannot be removed by
charging. These
> > are the crystal formations that eventually grow to the point of
lead
> > acid battery failure and accounts for over 80% of the failure
modes.
> >
> > If you would like to see the crystals with your naked eye, go out
at
> > night and shine a flashlight down into a flooded cell. If your
battery
> > is along the path to this type of failure you will see something
pretty
> > like diamond dust that sparkles.
> >
> > I am always disappointed in people that run around attempting to
> > dissuade folks from learning or trying anything new.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "jbirnsch " wrote:
> > >
> > > I was able to revive my frozen battery just by placing it on the
> > > charger for a few days. It took a day before it started to
charge but
> > > once it broke down the sulfates on the plates it really started
to take
> > > a decent charge.
> > >
> > > No pulser was needed. Just a cheap shumacher charger. Save your
stamps
> > > for furnace filter reminders : )
> > >
> > > Jason
> > >
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/
> terms/
plate surfaces removing plate area from service. The bonding strength
of the crystals to the plate is proportional to the degree of discharge
and the length of time they are allowed to remain.
Should you hit the battery with an extremely high charging voltage,
causing sulfate crystals to be blown off of the plates the electrolyte
is permanently weakened. Starter batteries, owing to their porous
surfaces will shed plate material in the process.
Should the high rate charging last long enough, the battery can sustain
heat damage. The temperature of the positive post of a battery is the
best place to monitor internal battery temperature provided that it is
insulated.
As battery capacity is also a function of battery temperature, a hot
battery will give you a temporary increase in power. This temporary
increase in capacity over the battery's real capacity will be lost when
the battery cools down to ambient temperatures.
Gel cells:
Not too many of those around. Most have been superseded by the starved
electrolyte class (97% saturation of the separators with electrolyte) or
as they are commonly known as VRLA. Both types will not tolerate any
charging that would cause the battery to gas.
True gel cells, if gassed, loses capacity as the gas creates a void on
the plate surface permanently removing that plate surface from service.
The Valve Regulated Lead Acid (VRLA) will simply vent critically needed
water and/or electrolyte resulting in permanent and substantial capacity
loses.
VRLA has so far been a challenge to be able to restore. While
desulfators will increase their capacity, dehydration, loss of acid and
grid corrosion are major factors in their short life span. As their
internal connecting members are not submerged in electrolyte, corrosion
is a major factor in their low service life.
"Dave Mucha " wrote:
>
> Interesting post.
>
> I would assume that the battery had not died from sulphantion from
> normal use.
>
> I would also assume that the battery was in good condition before it
> became frozen. it may not have had a good charge, but it must not
> have been insulated with highly sulphenated deposits.
>
> Obviously, the battey did not suffer catastrophic mechanical failure
> from the freezing. it MAY have suffered stress fractures.
>
> What I can figure out from the posts is that
>
> A) deposits DO revert or should I say, the sulphur changes phase from
> a crystaline solid to a dissolved form. The presence of white
> deposits and lack of them after chargeing indicate that.
>
>
> need to be. and are often smart enough to think the problem all the
> way thru. Those who not think it all the way thru offer use neat
> catch phrases like don't run with sizzors. or check the polarity of
> the cap before you apply power. Puts new meaning into "you are only
> as safe as your most unsafe act"
>
> C) Jason has multiple setting on his charger. I have a trickle
> charger for my motorcycle and a 30 amp fully automatic for my car.
>
> D) we don't have any "Ted Kennedy" awards for people who happen to
> kill others by their dumb mistakes. I don't think battery charging
> constitues a nomination for a Darwin award, unless you were doing in
> the charging in the basement next to your open paint thinner, while
> doing a whole body indoor tanning with a kerosene based tanning gel,
> and ignoring the hissing from your home made hydrogen fuelcell
> hydrogen generator and then tapping the wires from the charger to
> test polarity. On your wife's birthday.
>
> Now my question.
>
> I was told that when you take your dead battery to the service
> station and they put on the 50amp or 250 amp charger, it will weaken
> or destroy it.
>
> Accepting that non-bonded, non-crystalized sulphur deposits will be
> be flaked off, not re-disolved, what else would this do ?
>
> Do we expose ourselves to the same problem with our gel cells ?
>
> Dave
>
> --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "jbirnsch <jbirnsch@v...>"
> <jbirnsch@v...> wrote:
> > Don,
> >
> > I thawed the battery before I placed it on the charger. I also
> topped
> > it off with water to the fill line for each cell. The plates were
> > deposited with a white looking growth. I set the charger to 2A
> charge
> > ant left it there for a day. At first it took very little charge,
> > around 40mA but after a couple hours it was up to 400mA. The next
> day I
> > set it to 10 A charge. I left it there for 2 days. By the end of
> the
> > second day the battery was bubbling and slightly warm. Now when I
> > looked at the plates they were clean and free from deposits.
> Installed
> > it into the snowmobile and it started right up.
> >
> > Where do you see the danger in this????
> >
> > Yes, lead acid battery's will explode but only if a spark is
> generated
> > while charging at high amp rating like 50 A. It will ignite the
> > hydrogen gas from the charging process.
> >
> > Any time a person jump starts a car there at risk of an explosion.
> >
> > All as I am saying that sometimes you get lucky and save a few
> bucks.
> >
> > Darwin award!!!!! Whatever.......
> >
> > I grew up on a dairy farm. If anyone had more a chance to get
> maimed or
> > killed it would be me. I still have all of my fingers and toes.
> >
> > Jason
> >
> > --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Don Denhardt <dondenhardt@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > Please folks - Do not follow Jason's example by placing a frozen
> battery
> > > on a charger.
> > >
> > > They can explode and you can be severely injured or killed. This
> > > warning is normally found in every battery charger manual.
> > >
> > > When in the Navy and attending electronics school, the
> instructors had
> > > stated that for each warning that was placed in the manual
> someone had
> > > died. That if we should die, from some new blunder on our part,
> an
> > > appropriate warning would be added in the future.
> > >
> > > Made sense to me, I read and adhere to warnings.
> > >
> > > Jason I'd recommend you for a Darwinian award but I see that you
> are
> > > still alive.
> > >
> > > Desulfators are not a cure for frozen batteries. Desulfators
> remove the
> > > large sulfate crystal growths that cannot be removed by
> charging. These
> > > are the crystal formations that eventually grow to the point of
> lead
> > > acid battery failure and accounts for over 80% of the failure
> modes.
> > >
> > > If you would like to see the crystals with your naked eye, go out
> at
> > > night and shine a flashlight down into a flooded cell. If your
> battery
> > > is along the path to this type of failure you will see something
> pretty
> > > like diamond dust that sparkles.
> > >
> > > I am always disappointed in people that run around attempting to
> > > dissuade folks from learning or trying anything new.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "jbirnsch " wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I was able to revive my frozen battery just by placing it on the
> > > > charger for a few days. It took a day before it started to
> charge but
> > > > once it broke down the sulfates on the plates it really started
> to take
> > > > a decent charge.
> > > >
> > > > No pulser was needed. Just a cheap shumacher charger. Save your
> stamps
> > > > for furnace filter reminders : )
> > > >
> > > > Jason
> > > >
> > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> > > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
> Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/
> > terms/
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/