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Pcb design and production — Parallax Forums

Pcb design and production

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2002-11-25 13:17 in General Discussion
Hi All,

I have prototyped my stamp project, and now want to make a few of
them on PCB's.

I can get the PCB's commercially produced easily enough, but at a
price as they have minimum quantity production runs.

I therefore would like to have a bash at making my own. Can anybody
help me with info on how to do this, I do have the basic concept,
but it's been 15 years since I made a PCB at school!!

Is there software for doing it, if so what is it, and where can i
get (download) it.

I guess that the negative image is just printed on to a transpatency
and then UV exposed etc etc. Do normal printers do this ok?

All info greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Dwain

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-11-24 02:37
    I typically use www.expresspcb.com myself.
    Three miniboards cost $62.00.
    You can make your own boards, but you have to deal with "toxic" chemicals,
    plus you can't make the plated through holes like they can.
    The expresspcb software is free too.

    Original Message
    From: dwainsworld2000 [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=FYJHc4vwxTuf19We74dy7cW-OglALRrPryLBlzclCeZqn9LnX_x1iNKeG2a0blD05icyJCIgJJB3gmCdLDg]asdfghjk@b...[/url
    Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 7:43 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] PCB DESIGN AND PRODUCTION


    Hi All,

    I have prototyped my stamp project, and now want to make a few of
    them on PCB's.

    I can get the PCB's commercially produced easily enough, but at a
    price as they have minimum quantity production runs.

    I therefore would like to have a bash at making my own. Can anybody
    help me with info on how to do this, I do have the basic concept,
    but it's been 15 years since I made a PCB at school!!

    Is there software for doing it, if so what is it, and where can i
    get (download) it.

    I guess that the negative image is just printed on to a transpatency
    and then UV exposed etc etc. Do normal printers do this ok?

    All info greatly appreciated.

    Regards,

    Dwain




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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-11-24 03:09
    i have that kit you can get at radio shack where you draw on your board with
    a permanent marker and then dip the board and it eats away everything except
    where the marker is then you user another solution to wash the marker off
    leaving you with your circuit board.

    i have not tried it yet - i'm guessing this is as cheesy as you can get.

    anyone have any expirence with this method?

    mkl


    Original Message
    From: "Earl Bollinger" <earlwbollinger@a...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 8:37 PM
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] PCB DESIGN AND PRODUCTION


    > I typically use www.expresspcb.com myself.
    > Three miniboards cost $62.00.
    > You can make your own boards, but you have to deal with "toxic" chemicals,
    > plus you can't make the plated through holes like they can.
    > The expresspcb software is free too.
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: dwainsworld2000 [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=vXz4QmukIFmtHg_yr20_hE6ExwGgpvgZdWlX5DwoNpEHoXL1USXRB3GeKWH0IGD8O1PtoShlT2kbxGEUmiPlrwQ6]asdfghjk@b...[/url
    > Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 7:43 PM
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] PCB DESIGN AND PRODUCTION
    >
    >
    > Hi All,
    >
    > I have prototyped my stamp project, and now want to make a few of
    > them on PCB's.
    >
    > I can get the PCB's commercially produced easily enough, but at a
    > price as they have minimum quantity production runs.
    >
    > I therefore would like to have a bash at making my own. Can anybody
    > help me with info on how to do this, I do have the basic concept,
    > but it's been 15 years since I made a PCB at school!!
    >
    > Is there software for doing it, if so what is it, and where can i
    > get (download) it.
    >
    > I guess that the negative image is just printed on to a transpatency
    > and then UV exposed etc etc. Do normal printers do this ok?
    >
    > All info greatly appreciated.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Dwain
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    > Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
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    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
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    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-11-24 03:21
    tried this years ago (like 20), and it was unsatisfactory in the
    extreme. I could never get good enough coverage. what did work was a
    particular kind of tape for interconnect and stickers for pins. I can't
    remember where I got the tape or the stickers, but they were designed
    for pcb layout.

    _murat

    On Sunday, November 24, 2002, at 03:09 AM, Matt Lorenz wrote:

    > i have that kit you can get at radio shack where you draw on your
    > board with
    > a permanent marker and then dip the board and it eats away everything
    > except
    > where the marker is then you user another solution to wash the marker
    > off
    > leaving you with your circuit board.
    >
    > i have not tried it yet - i'm guessing this is as cheesy as you can
    > get.
    >
    > anyone have any expirence with this method?
    >
    > mkl
    >
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: "Earl Bollinger" <earlwbollinger@a...>
    > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 8:37 PM
    > Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] PCB DESIGN AND PRODUCTION
    >
    >
    >> I typically use www.expresspcb.com myself.
    >> Three miniboards cost $62.00.
    >> You can make your own boards, but you have to deal with "toxic"
    >> chemicals,
    >> plus you can't make the plated through holes like they can.
    >> The expresspcb software is free too.
    >>
    >>
    Original Message
    >> From: dwainsworld2000 [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=wdl4mcZMnKQSUIXv_t_JQGd_PqLhIqYTdSG6xJpaOflMZduUKE62lyKKz62ngSt0CsSIcg-jFR_Iv4mkl2e1Jfiy]asdfghjk@b...[/url
    >> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 7:43 PM
    >> To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    >> Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] PCB DESIGN AND PRODUCTION
    >>
    >>
    >> Hi All,
    >>
    >> I have prototyped my stamp project, and now want to make a few of
    >> them on PCB's.
    >>
    >> I can get the PCB's commercially produced easily enough, but at a
    >> price as they have minimum quantity production runs.
    >>
    >> I therefore would like to have a bash at making my own. Can anybody
    >> help me with info on how to do this, I do have the basic concept,
    >> but it's been 15 years since I made a PCB at school!!
    >>
    >> Is there software for doing it, if so what is it, and where can i
    >> get (download) it.
    >>
    >> I guess that the negative image is just printed on to a transpatency
    >> and then UV exposed etc etc. Do normal printers do this ok?
    >>
    >> All info greatly appreciated.
    >>
    >> Regards,
    >>
    >> Dwain
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    >> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
    >> and
    >> Body of the message will be ignored.
    >>
    >>
    >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    >> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
    >> and
    > Body of the message will be ignored.
    >>
    >>
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    >>
    >>
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-11-24 04:45
    Have a look at http://www.wd5gnr.com/pcb.htm

    We are shuffling servers this weekend, so if it is down, try again.

    Al Williams
    AWC
    * NEW: PAK-VIa - Read PS/2 keyboards or mice -- double the buffer, lower
    current consumption.
    http://www.al-williams.com/awce/pak6.htm



    >
    Original Message
    > From: dwainsworld2000 [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=RNY3-Ai_W4_63GC0cX1P29lDrve9SA1Wx8PMF8As9WLNEQIxOeZ_9pHkkKV87HeNXqxvUXadxio2ZtWPNpvCjno]asdfghjk@b...[/url
    > Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 7:43 PM
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]JUNK] [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] PCB DESIGN AND PRODUCTION
    >
    >
    > Hi All,
    >
    > I have prototyped my stamp project, and now want to make a few of
    > them on PCB's.
    >
    > I can get the PCB's commercially produced easily enough, but at a
    > price as they have minimum quantity production runs.
    >
    > I therefore would like to have a bash at making my own. Can anybody
    > help me with info on how to do this, I do have the basic concept,
    > but it's been 15 years since I made a PCB at school!!
    >
    > Is there software for doing it, if so what is it, and where can i
    > get (download) it.
    >
    > I guess that the negative image is just printed on to a transpatency
    > and then UV exposed etc etc. Do normal printers do this ok?
    >
    > All info greatly appreciated.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Dwain
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
    > Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-11-24 04:59
    come to think of it i did see something that looked like tape and stickers
    at radio shack too - i'm just too new to this to really know what i was
    looking at.

    i did develop a very small circuit using the etching kit - it looks so so.
    i have not put the multimeter on it yet to check for continuity. it seems
    there is a bit of an art to the whole pcb deal.

    oh, and to keep it stamp related - all i'm really doing is taking the
    expanding outputs lesson from stampworks and moving the leds from the nx1000
    to my own circuit board in the form of the letter "M". I don't mean
    actually moving them - just using another set borrowed from some old
    answering machines etc.

    what do you mean when you say you could not get enough coverage? like you
    just could not draw the circuit small enough? or am i missing your point?

    mkl


    Original Message
    From: "m" <murat_stamp@e...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 9:21 PM
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] PCB DESIGN AND PRODUCTION


    > tried this years ago (like 20), and it was unsatisfactory in the
    > extreme. I could never get good enough coverage. what did work was a
    > particular kind of tape for interconnect and stickers for pins. I can't
    > remember where I got the tape or the stickers, but they were designed
    > for pcb layout.
    >
    > _murat
    >
    > On Sunday, November 24, 2002, at 03:09 AM, Matt Lorenz wrote:
    >
    > > i have that kit you can get at radio shack where you draw on your
    > > board with
    > > a permanent marker and then dip the board and it eats away everything
    > > except
    > > where the marker is then you user another solution to wash the marker
    > > off
    > > leaving you with your circuit board.
    > >
    > > i have not tried it yet - i'm guessing this is as cheesy as you can
    > > get.
    > >
    > > anyone have any expirence with this method?
    > >
    > > mkl
    > >
    > >
    > >
    Original Message
    > > From: "Earl Bollinger" <earlwbollinger@a...>
    > > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > > Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 8:37 PM
    > > Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] PCB DESIGN AND PRODUCTION
    > >
    > >
    > >> I typically use www.expresspcb.com myself.
    > >> Three miniboards cost $62.00.
    > >> You can make your own boards, but you have to deal with "toxic"
    > >> chemicals,
    > >> plus you can't make the plated through holes like they can.
    > >> The expresspcb software is free too.
    > >>
    > >>
    Original Message
    > >> From: dwainsworld2000 [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=Bq1QiGQFizH9xbXP1Fm774Qi5lu_LQaUxpP4t7vXDQLR8D5WE6D4nVPo4BUX16qEYAC1ox9VyOHR4X1BhA]asdfghjk@b...[/url
    > >> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 7:43 PM
    > >> To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > >> Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] PCB DESIGN AND PRODUCTION
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> Hi All,
    > >>
    > >> I have prototyped my stamp project, and now want to make a few of
    > >> them on PCB's.
    > >>
    > >> I can get the PCB's commercially produced easily enough, but at a
    > >> price as they have minimum quantity production runs.
    > >>
    > >> I therefore would like to have a bash at making my own. Can anybody
    > >> help me with info on how to do this, I do have the basic concept,
    > >> but it's been 15 years since I made a PCB at school!!
    > >>
    > >> Is there software for doing it, if so what is it, and where can i
    > >> get (download) it.
    > >>
    > >> I guess that the negative image is just printed on to a transpatency
    > >> and then UV exposed etc etc. Do normal printers do this ok?
    > >>
    > >> All info greatly appreciated.
    > >>
    > >> Regards,
    > >>
    > >> Dwain
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > >> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > >> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
    > >> and
    > >> Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > >> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > >> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
    > >> and
    > > Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > >>
    > >>
    > >
    > >
    > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
    > > and Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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    > >
    >
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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-11-24 05:17
    Express PCB is great -- I had them do some boards too large for their $62
    deal and was very impressed by the delivery time and the quality of their
    boards. Their software is totally manual, so you have to know what you are
    doing to lay out a board, but they will eventually have some automated
    software.

    I have also done boards myself, and for the headache and hassle their
    service is far superior. You get a double-sided pre-tinned board with
    plated-through holes -- you can't do this at home to easily.

    **********

    > tried this years ago (like 20), and it was unsatisfactory in the
    > extreme. I could never get good enough coverage. what did work was a
    > particular kind of tape for interconnect and stickers for pins. I can't
    > remember where I got the tape or the stickers, but they were designed
    > for pcb layout.

    > > i have that kit you can get at radio shack where you draw on your
    > > board with
    > > a permanent marker and then dip the board and it eats away everything
    > > except
    > > where the marker is then you user another solution to wash the marker
    > > off
    > > leaving you with your circuit board.
    > >
    > > i have not tried it yet - i'm guessing this is as cheesy as you can
    > > get.

    > >> I typically use www.expresspcb.com myself.
    > >> Three miniboards cost $62.00.
    > >> You can make your own boards, but you have to deal with "toxic"
    > >> chemicals,
    > >> plus you can't make the plated through holes like they can.
    > >> The expresspcb software is free too.
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-11-24 08:04
    Agree!!!!!!!!!! Express PCB is a good way to go. Besides, if the pin count
    is high it is a pain in the neck to drill all the holes, keep em straight
    etc.

    But if you insist on making your own board, my suggestion is as follows. You
    will first need to get some freeware off the net for PCB layout software.
    Once you have the traces layed out, go to allelectronics.com. They sell an
    "iron on transfer"..

    You take your artwork (trace layout) and using a laser printer or copy
    machine (I have had better results with the copy machine) copy the artwork
    onto the iron on transfer paper.

    After the artwork is copied to the iron on paper, you iron the paper onto the
    copper board, cool the board under running water and peel the transfer. A
    blue film is left that represents your trace.

    Then get some ferric chloride etching solution (any major electronics store
    sells - even Radio Shack [noparse][[/noparse]shaft]). You then etch your board, and in about 25
    minutes you have a board with traced minus holes.

    carefull with the ferric chloride, it will permanently stain just about
    anything it contacts!!!!!!!!!!!

    There you go.

    The neat thing about PCB express as other the other member mentioned is they
    do double sided boards, the software is free to use....


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-11-24 08:05
    Yes, i have used it. Cheesy??? indeed, The problem is if you are doing DIP
    ic's you dont have good control over trace width etc. but it works....


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-11-24 09:05
    I tried this method before, it was miserable! The chemicals I got from Radio
    Shack must have been very old because it took several hours for the board to
    etch with very poor results. If you ensure the chemicals are new it should work
    well with a simple design.
    Matt Lorenz <mklorenz@c...> wrote:i have that kit you can get at radio
    shack where you draw on your board with
    a permanent marker and then dip the board and it eats away everything except
    where the marker is then you user another solution to wash the marker off
    leaving you with your circuit board.

    i have not tried it yet - i'm guessing this is as cheesy as you can get.

    anyone have any expirence with this method?

    mkl


    Original Message
    From: "Earl Bollinger"
    To:
    Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 8:37 PM
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] PCB DESIGN AND PRODUCTION


    > I typically use www.expresspcb.com myself.
    > Three miniboards cost $62.00.
    > You can make your own boards, but you have to deal with "toxic" chemicals,
    > plus you can't make the plated through holes like they can.
    > The expresspcb software is free too.
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: dwainsworld2000 [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=PadvlL1YrAwV8fxQsDUjCxspFzXzMy2O6CJSYi7M7k5pbr_OCCksjTFs-qo2XWhxiHMJ5xQL_JLNYLnVNdqa4jk]asdfghjk@b...[/url
    > Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 7:43 PM
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] PCB DESIGN AND PRODUCTION
    >
    >
    > Hi All,
    >
    > I have prototyped my stamp project, and now want to make a few of
    > them on PCB's.
    >
    > I can get the PCB's commercially produced easily enough, but at a
    > price as they have minimum quantity production runs.
    >
    > I therefore would like to have a bash at making my own. Can anybody
    > help me with info on how to do this, I do have the basic concept,
    > but it's been 15 years since I made a PCB at school!!
    >
    > Is there software for doing it, if so what is it, and where can i
    > get (download) it.
    >
    > I guess that the negative image is just printed on to a transpatency
    > and then UV exposed etc etc. Do normal printers do this ok?
    >
    > All info greatly appreciated.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Dwain
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    > Body of the message will be ignored.
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    >
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    >
    >
    >
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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-11-24 13:17
    >> tried this years ago (like 20), and it was unsatisfactory in the
    >> extreme. I could never get good enough coverage. what did work was a
    >> particular kind of tape for interconnect and stickers for pins. I
    >> can't
    >> remember where I got the tape or the stickers, but they were designed
    >> for pcb layout.

    > what do you mean when you say you could not get enough coverage? like
    > you
    > just could not draw the circuit small enough? or am i missing your
    > point?

    I could never get really "black" lines. The traces always ended up
    being not very solid.

    _murat
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-11-24 15:11
    I did this and found the markers to be a major problem. There are
    some QUALITY pens that work extreely well.

    I use the laser printer/heat transfer and it works well IF, (big IF)

    IF- no traces go between pins.
    IF - you are doing one side boards or are *REALLY-REALLY* good.

    you might want to check out the yahoo list
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs

    for different types of manufacturing. One I am facinated with is
    using a pen plotter to draw teh resists on the board, or to paint the
    board and remove the resist where it will be etched.

    and a few words about the chemicals, warm etch works MUCH better at
    room temperature.

    rocking will etch the edges faster than the middle unless you use a
    pan three times longer than the board, let all the etchant run over
    the board and collect on the far side. if you use a pan that does
    not let the etchant run off the whole baord, the center will not get
    as much exchange and take longer to etch. Bubbliers eleminate this.

    Drilling is a pain without a drillpress of any sort. Dremmel to home
    depot special that converts your hand drill into a press, to a full
    blown industrial shop press. And if you want ot take drilling to the
    extreem and push the electronics, you can make a CNC driller, or a
    circuit board mill/router and skip the chemicals.

    Dave








    --- In basicstamps@y..., Matt Lorenz <mklorenz@c...> wrote:
    > i have that kit you can get at radio shack where you draw on your
    board with
    > a permanent marker and then dip the board and it eats away
    everything except
    > where the marker is then you user another solution to wash the
    marker off
    > leaving you with your circuit board.
    >
    > i have not tried it yet - i'm guessing this is as cheesy as you can
    get.
    >
    > anyone have any expirence with this method?
    >
    > mkl
    >
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: "Earl Bollinger" <earlwbollinger@a...>
    > To: <basicstamps@y...>
    > Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 8:37 PM
    > Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] PCB DESIGN AND PRODUCTION
    >
    >
    > > I typically use www.expresspcb.com myself.
    > > Three miniboards cost $62.00.
    > > You can make your own boards, but you have to deal with "toxic"
    chemicals,
    > > plus you can't make the plated through holes like they can.
    > > The expresspcb software is free too.
    > >
    > >
    Original Message
    > > From: dwainsworld2000 [noparse][[/noparse]mailto:asdfghjk@b...]
    > > Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 7:43 PM
    > > To: basicstamps@y...
    > > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] PCB DESIGN AND PRODUCTION
    > >
    > >
    > > Hi All,
    > >
    > > I have prototyped my stamp project, and now want to make a few of
    > > them on PCB's.
    > >
    > > I can get the PCB's commercially produced easily enough, but at a
    > > price as they have minimum quantity production runs.
    > >
    > > I therefore would like to have a bash at making my own. Can
    anybody
    > > help me with info on how to do this, I do have the basic concept,
    > > but it's been 15 years since I made a PCB at school!!
    > >
    > > Is there software for doing it, if so what is it, and where can i
    > > get (download) it.
    > >
    > > I guess that the negative image is just printed on to a
    transpatency
    > > and then UV exposed etc etc. Do normal printers do this ok?
    > >
    > > All info greatly appreciated.
    > >
    > > Regards,
    > >
    > > Dwain
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@y...
    > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
    Subject and
    > > Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@y...
    > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
    Subject and
    > Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > >
    > >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-11-24 16:16
    This is the basic proceedure, but I would add that you will be WELL
    served if you take a magnyfing glass over every trace and a resist
    pen (a Sharpie will do) and fill in any and every line that is not
    solid or too thin. Also, once you see the layout, you can decide to
    add things like a resistor or cap, or even make larger traces if you
    want.

    There is a cheaper way, see Al Williams site for iron transfer
    procceure. But you will be well served to do it the 'expensive' way
    once.


    Seems we are all still waiting on the guy who puts together a simple
    and cheap way to make one board. 2 for $25.oo or something.

    btw, if you look around there are deals on the net like 3 boards for
    $100.00 for large boards, not just the mini-boards from ExpressPCB.

    Dave





    --- In basicstamps@y..., smartdim@a... wrote:
    > Agree!!!!!!!!!! Express PCB is a good way to go. Besides, if the
    pin count
    > is high it is a pain in the neck to drill all the holes, keep em
    straight
    > etc.
    >
    > But if you insist on making your own board, my suggestion is as
    follows. You
    > will first need to get some freeware off the net for PCB layout
    software.
    > Once you have the traces layed out, go to allelectronics.com. They
    sell an
    > "iron on transfer"..
    >
    > You take your artwork (trace layout) and using a laser printer or
    copy
    > machine (I have had better results with the copy machine) copy the
    artwork
    > onto the iron on transfer paper.
    >
    > After the artwork is copied to the iron on paper, you iron the
    paper onto the
    > copper board, cool the board under running water and peel the
    transfer. A
    > blue film is left that represents your trace.
    >
    > Then get some ferric chloride etching solution (any major
    electronics store
    > sells - even Radio Shack [noparse][[/noparse]shaft]). You then etch your board, and
    in about 25
    > minutes you have a board with traced minus holes.
    >
    > carefull with the ferric chloride, it will permanently stain just
    about
    > anything it contacts!!!!!!!!!!!
    >
    > There you go.
    >
    > The neat thing about PCB express as other the other member
    mentioned is they
    > do double sided boards, the software is free to use....
    >
    >
    > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-11-24 16:51
    Ecthing....very interesing. I noticed as you mentioned that indeed, when I
    rock the board the egdes etch faster than the center.

    Why is that? Regarding the "pan" being three times larger than the board, is
    that so you can let the etching material run off the board completly before
    rocking back the other direction.

    Am I correct thinking that maybe the process is sped up if the copper is
    exposed t etching, then oxygen, then etching...?


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-11-24 21:17
    I used to wok at a place that did printed circuit boards...
    They heat the Ferric to about 120 degrees and spray it very hard onto
    the board, etch times are still about 30 seconds.

    BTW most PCB manufactures use cupric chloride, it can be regenerated
    with clorine and the waste sold for the copper, pretty hazardus tho!

    The best home made etching system was built like a fishtank ( in fact
    a 10 Gal tak would work great). The boards were vertical and they
    used a fish tank heater and an air pump to blow air under the boards
    to agitate the etchant. But you'd need a good cover and a vent system
    or you'd really stink up the place.

    Oh and No air does not etch very well, I'd guess that the etch is
    moving faster, or more, near the sides than in the middle.

    It's all basic Chemistry, heat and stir to maximise the chemical
    reaction.

    --- In basicstamps@y..., smartdim@a... wrote:
    > Ecthing....very interesing. I noticed as you mentioned that
    indeed, when I
    > rock the board the egdes etch faster than the center.
    >
    > Why is that? Regarding the "pan" being three times larger than the
    board, is
    > that so you can let the etching material run off the board
    completly before
    > rocking back the other direction.
    >
    > Am I correct thinking that maybe the process is sped up if the
    copper is
    > exposed t etching, then oxygen, then etching...?
    >
    >
    > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-11-25 04:00
    Here is a link you might find to be very helpful. I use it all the time for
    PC boards. If you use there boards, the copper is thinner, and etches faster,
    leaving you with a perfect board.
    You print out your image, in a mirror image, run it thru a copy machine onto
    this film, and lay it on your PC board, lay a piece of aluminum over it and
    hit it with an iron. Then soak it in water to remove the paper. You can't go
    wrong.
    <A HREF="http://www.dynaart.com/">Amazing! Toner Transfer paper for making
    decals, printed circuit boards,
    tattoos and much more!</A>


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-11-25 13:17
    I have used the 'Sharpie' method several times with moderate success. It
    is important to make sure your traces are 'dark'. I even make traces
    between pins using the fine point sharpie. Acid etch in 10 minutes just
    'swishing' the board around in 1/2" ferric solution in a zip lock container
    using 'zippy ties' to hold the board. Solid, defined traces. But not the
    quality you could get from the big boys. And the time to drill all the
    holes using the Dremel drill press (broken bits) will not make me rich.
    I'm building a CNC router, but it will take many, many boards to recoup my
    cost.


    |
    +
    >
    | | smartdim@a...|
    | | |
    | | 11/24/2002 11:51|
    | | AM |
    | | Please respond |
    | | to basicstamps |
    | | |
    |
    +
    >

    >
    \
    |
    |
    |
    | To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    |
    | cc:
    |
    | Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: PCB DESIGN AND PRODUCTION
    |

    >
    \
    |




    Ecthing....very interesing. I noticed as you mentioned that indeed, when I

    rock the board the egdes etch faster than the center.

    Why is that? Regarding the "pan" being three times larger than the board,
    is
    that so you can let the etching material run off the board completly before

    rocking back the other direction.

    Am I correct thinking that maybe the process is sped up if the copper is
    exposed t etching, then oxygen, then etching...?


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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