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how is the BS2p faster than the BS2sx?? — Parallax Forums

how is the BS2p faster than the BS2sx??

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2002-11-15 18:59 in General Discussion
hello,

the parallax web site seems to say that the bs2p is 20percent
faster than the bs2sx

am I missreading this or what is the explanation?


thanks

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-11-15 15:42
    I'll try my best to answer this one (with the assistance of Stephen in tech.
    support to explain the
    turbo mode).

    The BS2p24 is indeed faster than the BS2sx.

    The processor speed of the BS2p24 (and BS2p40) is a 20 MHz Turbo, enabling it to
    run at program
    execution speed of ~12,000 instructions/second compared to ~10,000
    instructions/second on the BS2sx.
    Comparatively speaking, the BS2p24 and BS2p40 are approximately 20% faster than
    the BS2sx and 3
    times faster than the BS2.

    Turbo Mode

    The SX chip can run in compatible mode (4 clock cycles per instruction) OR
    The SX chip can run in turbo mode (approximately 1 clock cycle per instruction)

    Parallax pre-programs the SX48 chip for the turbo mode with the BS2p and BS2p40.
    The turbo mode affects the clock rate so the firmware needed to be modified
    (from the BS2) to
    accommodate for the timing changes.

    I hope this is more helpful than confusing....

    Erik Wood
    Parallax, Inc.
    599 Menlo Dr., Suite #100
    Rocklin, CA 95765
    (916) 624-8333
    www.parallaxinc.com

    Original Message
    From: rad0 [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=YpMX-kw7SjOiNKdrDz4wksKKMogaeDe2xDxrVr9Ydemh_5a3RhDwc4HtFMSxVlK8O3aOEr6iVsl3]rad0@a...[/url
    Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 5:48 AM
    To: stampers!
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] how is the BS2p faster than the BS2sx??


    hello,

    the parallax web site seems to say that the bs2p is 20percent
    faster than the bs2sx

    am I missreading this or what is the explanation?


    thanks

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    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-11-15 16:35
    that's a fine explanation, thanks

    I noticed in the manual for the time per pulse on a pulsout,
    it is 1.18 us (bs2p); versus .8 us for a bs2sx

    so is the bs2p not in turbo mode for this measurement or
    if yes, this seems slower to me...

    just curious, thanks


    Original Message
    From: "Erik Wood" <ewood@p...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 9:42 AM
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] how is the BS2p faster than the BS2sx??


    > I'll try my best to answer this one (with the assistance of Stephen in
    tech. support to explain the
    > turbo mode).
    >
    > The BS2p24 is indeed faster than the BS2sx.
    >
    > The processor speed of the BS2p24 (and BS2p40) is a 20 MHz Turbo, enabling
    it to run at program
    > execution speed of ~12,000 instructions/second compared to ~10,000
    instructions/second on the BS2sx.
    > Comparatively speaking, the BS2p24 and BS2p40 are approximately 20% faster
    than the BS2sx and 3
    > times faster than the BS2.
    >
    > Turbo Mode
    >
    > The SX chip can run in compatible mode (4 clock cycles per instruction) OR
    > The SX chip can run in turbo mode (approximately 1 clock cycle per
    instruction)
    >
    > Parallax pre-programs the SX48 chip for the turbo mode with the BS2p and
    BS2p40.
    > The turbo mode affects the clock rate so the firmware needed to be
    modified (from the BS2) to
    > accommodate for the timing changes.
    >
    > I hope this is more helpful than confusing....
    >
    > Erik Wood
    >
    > Parallax, Inc.
    > 599 Menlo Dr., Suite #100
    > Rocklin, CA 95765
    > (916) 624-8333
    > www.parallaxinc.com
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: rad0 [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=r4e414BEZKvt6fRACieFA_ix8EeIYZLKgDSh17yMmMFDFnRiksbPh4dNPlsZ5Pdt05Y1k8yo92yN]rad0@a...[/url
    > Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 5:48 AM
    > To: stampers!
    > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] how is the BS2p faster than the BS2sx??
    >
    >
    > hello,
    >
    > the parallax web site seems to say that the bs2p is 20percent
    > faster than the bs2sx
    >
    > am I missreading this or what is the explanation?
    >
    >
    > thanks
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will
    > be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-11-15 17:15
    Hi,

    The BS2p is running in turbo mode, a capability of the SX48 Ubicon
    chip that allows it to pipeline instructions for every single clock
    cycle, instead of one instruction for every four clock cycles.

    The BS2sx runs with a 50 mhz clock, but executes instructions slower
    than the BS2p with its 20 mhz clock, because of turbo mode. While
    the BS2sx and BS2e too have Ubicon SX28 processors, capable of turbo
    mode, those chips run in "compatibility mode" with the old 4 clock
    cycles per instruction. There may have been an issue with rewriting
    the interpreter for the SX28.

    You might think that the BS2p would run faster than the BS2sx in the
    ratio of 4*20/50 = 80/50. That would on the surface of it be 60%
    faster! But I guess there are some other things going on to make it
    work.

    Things like PAUSE take the same time no matter what, while
    instructions like PULSIN have individual timings that you have to be
    aware of:
    BS2p BS2sx BS2,BS2e
    pulsin: 0.75us vs 0.8us vs 2us resolution
    pulsout: 1.18us vs 0.8us vs 2us
    rctime: 0.9us vs 0.8us vs 2us
    count: 287us vs 400us vs 1ms
    There are also differences in the timing parameters in other commands
    like freqout and serout. These timings are not in any simple ratio
    that I can see.

    You can actually measure the time differences for execution of
    individual instructions like,
    HIGH pin:
    BS2p BS2sx BS2,BS2e
    41 us 56 us 140 us

    So the speed increase for that particular instruction is about 36%
    from the 'sx to the 'p.

    -- regards,
    Tracy Allen
    electronically monitored ecosystems
    mailto:tracy@e...
    http://www.emesystems.com


    >hello,
    >
    >the parallax web site seems to say that the bs2p is 20percent
    >faster than the bs2sx
    >
    >am I missreading this or what is the explanation?
    >
    >
    >thanks
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-11-15 18:10
    It has to do with the way the onboard SX chip is programmed. In the BS2sx,
    we use PIC compatibility mode which means that [noparse][[/noparse]inside the SX] four clock
    cycles are required for each instruction. In the BS2p, we're running in
    Turbo mode which means only one clock per instruction. At the same
    frequency, the BS2p would run four times faster than the BS2sx.

    But ... higher clock frequencies mean higher current draw and we know that
    the SX can cook small hot-dogs when it's running hard. So we knocked the
    BS2p clock down to 20 MHz (the BS2sx runs at 50 MHz).

    From an SX instruction basis, the BS2sx is running at approximately 12.5 MHz
    and is, therefore, slower than the BS2p. Please keep in mind that a lot of
    the BS2p code was rewritten for the Turbo, so there isn't a wholesale speed
    change. PAUSE still takes a parameter in 1 millisecond units. Other
    commands, like PULSOUT and PULSIN change because the faster speed -- in some
    cases -- gives you better resolution.

    I hope this makes better sense of what you're seeing.

    -- Jon Williams
    -- Applications Engineer, Parallax
    -- Dallas, TX


    In a message dated 11/15/02 7:51:15 AM Central Standard Time, rad0@a...
    writes:


    > hello,
    >
    > the parallax web site seems to say that the bs2p is 20percent
    > faster than the bs2sx
    >
    >




    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-11-15 18:59
    yeah OK,

    Thanks Tracy and Jon.

    I guess the BS2p is faster over all except where it
    had to be slowed down for compatibility sake, the pause,
    and so forth...

    So therefore, it's true and it makes sense to say it is faster.

    Thanks



    Original Message
    From: <jonwms@a...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 12:10 PM
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] how is the BS2p faster than the BS2sx??


    > It has to do with the way the onboard SX chip is programmed. In the
    BS2sx,
    > we use PIC compatibility mode which means that [noparse][[/noparse]inside the SX] four clock
    > cycles are required for each instruction. In the BS2p, we're running in
    > Turbo mode which means only one clock per instruction. At the same
    > frequency, the BS2p would run four times faster than the BS2sx.
    >
    > But ... higher clock frequencies mean higher current draw and we know that
    > the SX can cook small hot-dogs when it's running hard. So we knocked the
    > BS2p clock down to 20 MHz (the BS2sx runs at 50 MHz).
    >
    > From an SX instruction basis, the BS2sx is running at approximately 12.5
    MHz
    > and is, therefore, slower than the BS2p. Please keep in mind that a lot
    of
    > the BS2p code was rewritten for the Turbo, so there isn't a wholesale
    speed
    > change. PAUSE still takes a parameter in 1 millisecond units. Other
    > commands, like PULSOUT and PULSIN change because the faster speed -- in
    some
    > cases -- gives you better resolution.
    >
    > I hope this makes better sense of what you're seeing.
    >
    > -- Jon Williams
    > -- Applications Engineer, Parallax
    > -- Dallas, TX
    >
    >
    > In a message dated 11/15/02 7:51:15 AM Central Standard Time,
    rad0@a...
    > writes:
    >
    >
    > > hello,
    > >
    > > the parallax web site seems to say that the bs2p is 20percent
    > > faster than the bs2sx
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
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