PIC vs. Basic Stamp
Archiver
Posts: 46,084
What's the advantages of using a BS2 over a "raw" PIC? Ok, I know,
some of the advantages are obvious, but I'd like to see your list.
To take the programming variable out of the equation, let's assume you
were programming the "raw" PIC in PicBasic.
Specificaly, what could a decent programmer do with a BS2 that he/she
couldn't do with a PIC/UART combo?
Thanks
some of the advantages are obvious, but I'd like to see your list.
To take the programming variable out of the equation, let's assume you
were programming the "raw" PIC in PicBasic.
Specificaly, what could a decent programmer do with a BS2 that he/she
couldn't do with a PIC/UART combo?
Thanks
Comments
Randy Wahlfeldt
Email: randyw@w...
Web: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~rwahlfel
Original Message
From: "Trygve Henriksen" <trygve.henriksen@v...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 8:35 AM
Subject: SV: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] PIC vs. Basic Stamp
> Greetings!
>
> There's only two REAL advantages to using a BS2 over a 'raw PIC'...
>
> 1. Ease of programming.
> a. Simple syntax
> b. Simple to debug.
>
> 2. Very easy to get help...
> a. This list.
> b. People from Parallax ON this list...
> c. Tons of examples available online...
>
> The fact that it already has a voltage regulator and those fiddly bits
> around the oscilator doesn't hurt either. (They can be 'quite fiddly'
if
> you're making your own PCB)
>
> :-)
> Trygve
>
>
>
Opprinnelig melding
> Fra: rds2112geo [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=vyKWhNte34zUHEYqTxx-cdQR2Fvu2per7SQYOIirBvaEDWViDOhXZAzVkFHWb2nndy_t4VhRpx0e3nsL]rds2112geo@y...[/url
> Sendt: 4. november 2002 15:30
> Til: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> Emne: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] PIC vs. Basic Stamp
>
>
> What's the advantages of using a BS2 over a "raw" PIC? Ok, I know,
> some of the advantages are obvious, but I'd like to see your list.
>
> To take the programming variable out of the equation, let's assume you
> were programming the "raw" PIC in PicBasic.
>
> Specificaly, what could a decent programmer do with a BS2 that he/she
> couldn't do with a PIC/UART combo?
>
> Thanks
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
and
> Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
and Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
randyw@w... writes:
> Biggest advantage the PIC has over the Stamp is cost.
>
Plus the cost of a compiler and a programmer.
Sid
[noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
THIS LIST !!!
far and away the best feature.
#2 ease of programming.
when you program the BS2, you are trouble shooting hardware 99% of
the time. in other micro's, you are not sure. and you can spend
(insert time here,minutes, hours, DAYS!) on trouble shooting a simple
problem.
#3 Onboard ADC
#4 Onboard PWM
#5 cost , the problms is that, although the PIC is lot's cheaper, it
costs you pleanty to get there.
$250.00 for PICBasicPro
$100.00 for a high quaity programmer
If you are doing 5 parts, you are better off with a BS2 for cost
alone.
#6 speed.
#7 simplicity - BS2 has an onboard oscilator and onboard voltage
regulator.
#8 Versitility, you can get an 8 pin PIC for a very simple project.
say a doggie door. monitor pet collar, open/close door. or a 40
pin multi ADC behemouth.
Dave
--- In basicstamps@y..., "rds2112geo" <rds2112geo@y...> wrote:
> What's the advantages of using a BS2 over a "raw" PIC? Ok, I know,
> some of the advantages are obvious, but I'd like to see your list.
>
> To take the programming variable out of the equation, let's assume
you
> were programming the "raw" PIC in PicBasic.
>
> Specificaly, what could a decent programmer do with a BS2 that
he/she
> couldn't do with a PIC/UART combo?
>
> Thanks
> What's the advantages of using a BS2 over a "raw" PIC? Ok, I know,
> some of the advantages are obvious, but I'd like to see your list.
Like anything else, there are trade-offs in determining the "best".
The Stamp has a low startup cost (all you *really* need to buy is a
stamp itself). It is very easy to program/reprogram. The programming
language is both easy to understand and based on a language that many
people are at least somewhat familiar with.
> To take the programming variable out of the equation, let's assume you
> were programming the "raw" PIC in PicBasic.
>
> Specificaly, what could a decent programmer do with a BS2 that he/she
> couldn't do with a PIC/UART combo?
Well, there are dozens of different PICs. Depending on which you
choose, you might gain or lose I/O pins, math functions, external
interface options (I2C, 1-Wire, X-10, etc), execution speed, program
size, etc.
Generally speaking, I believe the Stamp is not cost-effective for use in
a production product run of more than a handful of units. The Stamp is,
however, very appropriate for custom projects/products, rapid
development schedules, hobbyist/amateur use, robotics use, etc.
I think that what it comes down to is a tradeoff of learning curve and
ease of implementation vs. raw per-part cost.
I've recently done a couple of custom automotive projects that are based
on BS2's and/or BS2SX's. I could have used a PIC as the heart of these
projects, but the stamp was just so much quicker and easier to develop
on. Additionally, I can re-program the devices in the field much
quicker/easier than I could with a PIC.
about on-board ADC and PWM - or at least the fact that ADC is easier
with a stamp.
I'm a user of BSII and PIC (with PicBasic Pro). My first micro was a
BSII. Nowaday I use the BSII for developening becuase of simplicity at the
time to program, and debug (which is really a big help!). But as I use
PicBasic Pro, I can optimize my application very much! PICs are (for example
I use a 16F74) faster than Stamps (Real 20MHz vs. 20MHz but running an
interpreter), and some PIC has more pins (my F74 has 22 I/O) which include
Hardware USART, I2C Slave mode, 5 ADC 8bits, 11 Interrupts. And this is very
simple to use with PBasic. But I still prefered my BSII, because of the
reasons other users explain. And I don't have just one Stamp, I have 2 BSII
and 1 BSIIp24. And I'm thinking of buying a Javelin Stamp.
Ezequiel
Original Message
From: "rds2112geo" <rds2112geo@y...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 1:10 PM
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: PIC vs. Basic Stamp
> Thanks for the responses! Pretty much what I expected, but I forgot
> about on-board ADC and PWM - or at least the fact that ADC is easier
> with a stamp.
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Thanks for the responses! Pretty much what I expected, but I forgot
> about on-board ADC and PWM - or at least the fact that ADC is
easier
> with a stamp.
Well, I didn't say it was easier or better.
actually we often use a TLC2543 11 channel 12 bit ADC for the
expanded channels and also the higher resolution.
Dave
Original Message
From: Dave Mucha [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=nVkEFb3dMFiFSqAK_mX50zzKJy1sSH6Ze-mgVVbFfDfSxHdKuekqjhABLpgfImdvi-3bgA6Bn0II]davemucha@j...[/url
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 10:19 AM
To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: PIC vs. Basic Stamp
--- In basicstamps@y..., "rds2112geo" <rds2112geo@y...> wrote:
> Thanks for the responses! Pretty much what I expected, but I forgot
> about on-board ADC and PWM - or at least the fact that ADC is
easier
> with a stamp.
Well, I didn't say it was easier or better.
actually we often use a TLC2543 11 channel 12 bit ADC for the
expanded channels and also the higher resolution.
Dave
OK, but the PIC16C77x includes 12-bit, multichannel A/D, but I don't
have it working yet [noparse]:)[/noparse] .
Dennis
traffic and has massive searchable archives. See http://www.piclist.com for
more info. I find the stamp list more receptive to code questions, but that
could be because most pic programming questions can be answered by searching
the archives. Also, while I don't use pic basic, I haven't noticed extensive
discussion of the language on the piclist. Best to see for yourself though.
Some use Stamps to work out ideas quickly and effectively, then go to Pic to
save a few bucks on a finished product. The pic programmer pays for itself
after two or three projects. IMHO both are awesome.
Nick
on 4/11/02 10:33 AM, Dave Mucha at davemucha@j... wrote:
> First on my list is
>
> THIS LIST !!!
>
> far and away the best feature.
>
> #2 ease of programming.
>
> when you program the BS2, you are trouble shooting hardware 99% of
> the time. in other micro's, you are not sure. and you can spend
> (insert time here,minutes, hours, DAYS!) on trouble shooting a simple
> problem.
>
> #3 Onboard ADC
> #4 Onboard PWM
>
> #5 cost , the problms is that, although the PIC is lot's cheaper, it
> costs you pleanty to get there.
>
> $250.00 for PICBasicPro
> $100.00 for a high quaity programmer
>
> If you are doing 5 parts, you are better off with a BS2 for cost
> alone.
>
> #6 speed.
>
> #7 simplicity - BS2 has an onboard oscilator and onboard voltage
> regulator.
>
> #8 Versitility, you can get an 8 pin PIC for a very simple project.
> say a doggie door. monitor pet collar, open/close door. or a 40
> pin multi ADC behemouth.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In basicstamps@y..., "rds2112geo" <rds2112geo@y...> wrote:
>> What's the advantages of using a BS2 over a "raw" PIC? Ok, I know,
>> some of the advantages are obvious, but I'd like to see your list.
>>
>> To take the programming variable out of the equation, let's assume
> you
>> were programming the "raw" PIC in PicBasic.
>>
>> Specificaly, what could a decent programmer do with a BS2 that
> he/she
>> couldn't do with a PIC/UART combo?
>>
>> Thanks
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
> of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Easy to use, from all levels - beginner to advanced.
The Stamp is used, after all, in some impressive industrial applications.
> From: "rds2112geo" <rds2112geo@y...>
> Reply-To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 14:29:54 -0000
> To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] PIC vs. Basic Stamp
>
> What's the advantages of using a BS2 over a "raw" PIC? Ok, I know,
> some of the advantages are obvious, but I'd like to see your list.
>
> To take the programming variable out of the equation, let's assume you
> were programming the "raw" PIC in PicBasic.
>
> Specificaly, what could a decent programmer do with a BS2 that he/she
> couldn't do with a PIC/UART combo?
>
> Thanks
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
> of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>This list is great, but the piclist is equally impressive. It has high
>traffic and has massive searchable archives. See http://www.piclist.com for
>more info. I find the stamp list more receptive to code questions, but that
>could be because most pic programming questions can be answered by searching
>the archives. Also, while I don't use pic basic, I haven't noticed extensive
>discussion of the language on the piclist. Best to see for yourself though.
>
>Some use Stamps to work out ideas quickly and effectively, then go to Pic to
>save a few bucks on a finished product. The pic programmer pays for itself
>after two or three projects. IMHO both are awesome.
>
>Nick
I'll have to agree with you Nick, both "Tools" are effective. The Stamp is
great for
getting the idea out quickly, and depending on what PIC compiler you use,
some will
generate assembly source code from your basic source code that can greatly
reduce the
learning curve, if/when you decide to move on to doing purely PIC
programming or simply
a hybrid cross-platform style of programming. I personally enjoy
programming in assembly
so this doesn't bother me to much. There are ways to structure your
programming style
in ANY language assembly included, that allow you to compartmentalize your
code into
specific functions that can make a language such as assembly seem like a
high level
programming platform.
Beau Schwabe Mask Designer II - ATL
National Semiconductor Enterprise Networking Business Unit
500 Pinnacle Court, Suite 525 Wired Communications Division
Mail Stop GA1 Norcross, GA 30071
$10 USD or less, the Stamps from what I found are $30USD and up.
I do not know the exact figures but PIC chips do things a lot faster
then Stamps.
Bob
Ben wrote:
>I'd pic - er - pick - the Stamp over a PIC any day.
>
>Easy to use, from all levels - beginner to advanced.
>
>The Stamp is used, after all, in some impressive industrial applications.
>
>
>
>
>
>>From: "rds2112geo" <rds2112geo@y...>
>>Reply-To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
>>Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 14:29:54 -0000
>>To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] PIC vs. Basic Stamp
>>
>>What's the advantages of using a BS2 over a "raw" PIC? Ok, I know,
>>some of the advantages are obvious, but I'd like to see your list.
>>
>>To take the programming variable out of the equation, let's assume you
>>were programming the "raw" PIC in PicBasic.
>>
>>Specificaly, what could a decent programmer do with a BS2 that he/she
>>couldn't do with a PIC/UART combo?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>
>>To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
>>basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
>>of the message will be ignored.
>>
>>
>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
of the message will be ignored.
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
[noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Cost and speed are what I found. PIC Chips from what I have found are
> $10 USD or less, the Stamps from what I found are $30USD and up.
> I do not know the exact figures but PIC chips do things a lot faster
> then Stamps.
A couple more thoughts from me [noparse]:)[/noparse]
1) Speed is often, but not always important. I've rarely ever said of
my stamp "I wish this were faster", I've also never really noticed an
observable speed improvement on the projects that I've migrated from
Stamps to PICs (granted, these have been few).
2) To play a bit on your statement "...PIC chips do things a lot faster
then Stamps"
I would have to say that for just about any beginner to
microcontrollers, or anyone doing a 1-off project, one thing that the
PICs *don't* do faster is lend themselves to a shortened development
cycle.
I've used a lot of different PIC tools and programmers, and I still
truly believe that the overall Stamp tools from Parallax (programmer,
debug options, carrier boards, programming resources, etc) make for a
better and cheaper development environment when you're starting from
scratch.
go wrong, then step up to a pic if needed, you will use the stamp
even after going to pics.
larry
Original Message
From: "Brian" <stamp@k...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: November 05, 2002 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] PIC vs. Basic Stamp
On Tue, 2002-11-05 at 09:15, robert nelson wrote:
> Cost and speed are what I found. PIC Chips from what I have
found are
> $10 USD or less, the Stamps from what I found are $30USD and
up.
> I do not know the exact figures but PIC chips do things a lot
faster
> then Stamps.
A couple more thoughts from me [noparse]:)[/noparse]
1) Speed is often, but not always important. I've rarely ever
said of
my stamp "I wish this were faster", I've also never really
noticed an
observable speed improvement on the projects that I've migrated
from
Stamps to PICs (granted, these have been few).
2) To play a bit on your statement "...PIC chips do things a lot
faster
then Stamps"
I would have to say that for just about any beginner to
microcontrollers, or anyone doing a 1-off project, one thing that
the
PICs *don't* do faster is lend themselves to a shortened
development
cycle.
I've used a lot of different PIC tools and programmers, and I
still
truly believe that the overall Stamp tools from Parallax
(programmer,
debug options, carrier boards, programming resources, etc) make
for a
better and cheaper development environment when you're starting
from
scratch.
To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> On Tue, 2002-11-05 at 09:15, robert nelson wrote:
> > Cost and speed are what I found. PIC Chips from what I have found
are
> > $10 USD or less, the Stamps from what I found are $30USD and up.
> > I do not know the exact figures but PIC chips do things a lot
faster
> > then Stamps.
> A couple more thoughts from me [noparse]:)[/noparse]
> 1) Speed is often, but not always important. I've rarely ever said
> I would have to say that for just about any beginner to
> microcontrollers, or anyone doing a 1-off project, one thing that
the
> PICs *don't* do faster is lend themselves to a shortened development
> cycle.
I agree with Brian...I'm a little old school, and I used to design my
controllers around a Z80, EPROM, SRAM, PIA, and other I/O chips as
needed...Development of controllers was a bit tedious, to say the
least. Stamps make things ALOT easier, and in most of the control
applications I have seen, the Stamp is more than adequate in terms of
speed.
Chris Savage
Knight Designs
<snip>
> OK, but the PIC16C77x includes 12-bit, multichannel A/D, but I
don't have it working yet.
on another note, I prefer the Flash units.
Dave
appear first in PICs before they appear in Stamps -- current example
being 12-bit converters, and they aren't yet available in Microchip
Flash units.
Dennis
Original Message
From: Dave Mucha [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=vM_LAuivp58bvEyIH3sHgCeCcVMcohV5NZZkm_zxlMQFXc1O17FU8f8MuuDAWW8gOMqXTLyXaRk]davemucha@j...[/url
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 4:33 PM
To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: PIC vs. Basic Stamp
Ah yes, one of the simple demonstrative answers to the question.
<snip>
> OK, but the PIC16C77x includes 12-bit, multichannel A/D, but I
don't have it working yet.
on another note, I prefer the Flash units.
Dave
real estate down and I'd bet dollars to donuts the power
cconsumption, and a speed benny. As opposed to a I2C, or other off
chip ADC. (ok the off chip option give one the custom tayloring for
resolution, channels and sampling rates)
Personally I love both the Stamps and PICs. Buy a stamp and your
done in a few hours with your project
--- In basicstamps@y..., "Dave Mucha" <davemucha@j...> wrote:
> Ah yes, one of the simple demonstrative answers to the question.
>
> <snip>
>
> > OK, but the PIC16C77x includes 12-bit, multichannel A/D, but I
> don't have it working yet.
>
>
> on another note, I prefer the Flash units.
>
> Dave
is a circuit board assembly with additional features, that is being
compared against the cost of a PIC chip. What a lot of people may not
realize, is that once you have a prototype going using the DIP
packaged Stamp. You can buy just the uController with PBASIC
programmed into it and put onto your own board for <$10 depending on
qty. ~$7 for 50 for Ubicom SX48 with PBASIC. (Ubicom SX48 is used in
BS2P)
I have successfully used these parts in two fiber-optic controller
products. (These are products, not projects.)
Time to working prototype for these < six weeks. Used the Parallax
development board to breadboard the control circuits and develop code
before the schematic was finalized and while the board was laid-out,
fabricated, and assembled. As soon as assembled boards came in,
PBASIC code was ready to go.
There are only a few things to be careful about.
1. Use the same resonator as the stamp board. (Available from
Parallax)
2. Attach an EEPROM for your code that is compatible with that on the
stamp board. (Available from Parallax)
3. Bring out the proper pins for serial programming, TX,RX, & ATN.
The reset is needed to signal PBASIC for downloading code.
4. Make a little RS-232 cable dongle that will convert signals to TTL
level and echo back characters so the Stamp Editor detects the serial
port to allow programming user code. (B&B Electronics make nice
little line powered converters Model 232LPTTL for ~$30. But still
need to add the echo req'd for Stamp Editor.)
So stop cost bashing the Basic Stamps!
Dean
--- In basicstamps@y..., "Chris Savage" <knight_designs@y...> wrote:
> --- In basicstamps@y..., Brian <stamp@k...> wrote:
> > On Tue, 2002-11-05 at 09:15, robert nelson wrote:
> > > Cost and speed are what I found. PIC Chips from what I have
found
> are
> > > $10 USD or less, the Stamps from what I found are $30USD and
up.
> > > I do not know the exact figures but PIC chips do things a lot
> faster
> > > then Stamps.
> > A couple more thoughts from me [noparse]:)[/noparse]
> > 1) Speed is often, but not always important. I've rarely ever
said
> > I would have to say that for just about any beginner to
> > microcontrollers, or anyone doing a 1-off project, one thing that
> the
> > PICs *don't* do faster is lend themselves to a shortened
development
> > cycle.
>
> I agree with Brian...I'm a little old school, and I used to design
my
> controllers around a Z80, EPROM, SRAM, PIA, and other I/O chips as
> needed...Development of controllers was a bit tedious, to say the
> least. Stamps make things ALOT easier, and in most of the control
> applications I have seen, the Stamp is more than adequate in terms
of
> speed.
>
> Chris Savage
> Knight Designs