Ice thickness detector? mulling.
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While Its probably outside my capabilities at the moment, I was
wondering if its possible to make a small RF device to measure ice
thickness in a hockey arena. I got the idea while perusing web pages
and reading about RF "eyes" for robots.
Most modern arena's have a concrete slab which should be different
enough in its RF reflection properties to allow a sort of radar
distance measurement. Hold the senser against the ice surface and
shoot. The distance is the thickness of the ice (usually somewhere
between 3/4 and 1 1/2 inches).
Anyone ever see anything similar in their travels? Not that I think
I'm capable of making one by any means, but its something that would
be interesting to learn about.
wondering if its possible to make a small RF device to measure ice
thickness in a hockey arena. I got the idea while perusing web pages
and reading about RF "eyes" for robots.
Most modern arena's have a concrete slab which should be different
enough in its RF reflection properties to allow a sort of radar
distance measurement. Hold the senser against the ice surface and
shoot. The distance is the thickness of the ice (usually somewhere
between 3/4 and 1 1/2 inches).
Anyone ever see anything similar in their travels? Not that I think
I'm capable of making one by any means, but its something that would
be interesting to learn about.
Comments
home center already sells a device for next to nothing that would probably
be easy to interface to a Stamp and that device is a "stud finder". The
stud finder detects a change in density of the wall (ie: wall board) when
swept across a stud and triggers an LED.
Check the Parallax web site in the resources section and I believe there
is an app note on ultrasonic range finders.
The only potential problem I see is the accuracy that you are after. I'm
not sure that the resoultion necessary to measure less than an inch will be
possible to achieve with the Stamp/ultrasonic setup but it would be fun to
try.
Mike B.
Original Message
From: "ghidera2000" <ghidera2000@y...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 9:02 AM
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Ice thickness detector? mulling.
> While Its probably outside my capabilities at the moment, I was
> wondering if its possible to make a small RF device to measure ice
> thickness in a hockey arena. I got the idea while perusing web pages
> and reading about RF "eyes" for robots.
>
> Most modern arena's have a concrete slab which should be different
> enough in its RF reflection properties to allow a sort of radar
> distance measurement. Hold the senser against the ice surface and
> shoot. The distance is the thickness of the ice (usually somewhere
> between 3/4 and 1 1/2 inches).
>
> Anyone ever see anything similar in their travels? Not that I think
> I'm capable of making one by any means, but its something that would
> be interesting to learn about.
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
concrete slab: 1) Infrared photo detector above the ice bouncing a beam
off a polished metal mirror on the slab; and 2) a linear analog hall
effect sensor (Allegra) above the ice, responding to a powerful magnet
fastened to the slab. Both approaches could be "wet labbed" for
accuracy in your kitchen with an ice cube.
But for ultimate accuracy, plug in a soldering iron, apply the tip to
the ice surface, and measure the protruding shaft after the tip hits the
slab. Variations of this approach are well known to ice fisherman.
Dennis
Original Message
From: ghidera2000 [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=N2hjTWeJggKmRh67QNqFfekKbPDrX-07HWHho-xE4yyK_595AjBQy6qh6R72EtiM-oV1KIa414qWq-U8]ghidera2000@y...[/url
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 9:03 AM
To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Ice thickness detector? mulling.
While Its probably outside my capabilities at the moment, I was
wondering if its possible to make a small RF device to measure ice
thickness in a hockey arena. I got the idea while perusing web pages
and reading about RF "eyes" for robots.
Most modern arena's have a concrete slab which should be different
enough in its RF reflection properties to allow a sort of radar
distance measurement. Hold the senser against the ice surface and
shoot. The distance is the thickness of the ice (usually somewhere
between 3/4 and 1 1/2 inches).
Anyone ever see anything similar in their travels? Not that I think
I'm capable of making one by any means, but its something that would
be interesting to learn about.
To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
and Body of the message will be ignored.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> Two electronic approaches, both based on fixing a passive object
to the
> concrete slab: 1) Infrared photo detector above the ice bouncing
a beam
> off a polished metal mirror on the slab; and 2) a linear analog
hall
> effect sensor (Allegra) above the ice, responding to a powerful
magnet
> fastened to the slab. Both approaches could be "wet labbed" for
> accuracy in your kitchen with an ice cube.
Neither method would be practical really. Ice paint and
scarring/oxidation of the ice would completely obsure a mirror.
Hell, its hard enough just keeping the lines visible sometimes [noparse]:D[/noparse]
Besides, hockey rinks are roughly 85x200 feet.
> But for ultimate accuracy, plug in a soldering iron, apply the tip
to
> the ice surface, and measure the protruding shaft after the tip
hits the
> slab. Variations of this approach are well known to ice fisherman.
Cordless drill and a ruler are what we use normally.
> Dennis
>
>
Original Message
> From: ghidera2000 [noparse][[/noparse]mailto:ghidera2000@y...]
> Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 9:03 AM
> To: basicstamps@y...
> Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Ice thickness detector? mulling.
>
>
> While Its probably outside my capabilities at the moment, I was
> wondering if its possible to make a small RF device to measure ice
> thickness in a hockey arena. I got the idea while perusing web
pages
> and reading about RF "eyes" for robots.
>
> Most modern arena's have a concrete slab which should be different
> enough in its RF reflection properties to allow a sort of radar
> distance measurement. Hold the senser against the ice surface and
> shoot. The distance is the thickness of the ice (usually somewhere
> between 3/4 and 1 1/2 inches).
>
> Anyone ever see anything similar in their travels? Not that I
think
> I'm capable of making one by any means, but its something that
would
> be interesting to learn about.
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@y...
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
Subject
> and Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
used anywhere on the rink.
Ultrasonic is still the best method so far, although it may be a challenge
as well.
Original Message
> Two electronic approaches, both based on fixing a passive object to the
> concrete slab: 1) Infrared photo detector above the ice bouncing a beam
> off a polished metal mirror on the slab; and 2) a linear analog hall
> effect sensor (Allegra) above the ice, responding to a powerful magnet
> fastened to the slab. Both approaches could be "wet labbed" for
> accuracy in your kitchen with an ice cube.
>
> But for ultimate accuracy, plug in a soldering iron, apply the tip to
> the ice surface, and measure the protruding shaft after the tip hits the
> slab. Variations of this approach are well known to ice fisherman.
> While Its probably outside my capabilities at the moment, I was
> wondering if its possible to make a small RF device to measure ice
> thickness in a hockey arena. I got the idea while perusing web pages
> and reading about RF "eyes" for robots.
>
> Most modern arena's have a concrete slab which should be different
> enough in its RF reflection properties to allow a sort of radar
> distance measurement. Hold the senser against the ice surface and
> shoot. The distance is the thickness of the ice (usually somewhere
> between 3/4 and 1 1/2 inches).
>
> Anyone ever see anything similar in their travels? Not that I think
> I'm capable of making one by any means, but its something that would
> be interesting to learn about.
and the ice.
Duh -- how about a depth finder off a boat?
Original Message
> Umm... I would think it has to be non-destructive and be capable of being
> used anywhere on the rink.
>
> Ultrasonic is still the best method so far, although it may be a challenge
> as well.
>
>
Original Message
>
>
> > Two electronic approaches, both based on fixing a passive object to the
> > concrete slab: 1) Infrared photo detector above the ice bouncing a beam
> > off a polished metal mirror on the slab; and 2) a linear analog hall
> > effect sensor (Allegra) above the ice, responding to a powerful magnet
> > fastened to the slab. Both approaches could be "wet labbed" for
> > accuracy in your kitchen with an ice cube.
> >
> > But for ultimate accuracy, plug in a soldering iron, apply the tip to
> > the ice surface, and measure the protruding shaft after the tip hits the
> > slab. Variations of this approach are well known to ice fisherman.
>
> > While Its probably outside my capabilities at the moment, I was
> > wondering if its possible to make a small RF device to measure ice
> > thickness in a hockey arena. I got the idea while perusing web pages
> > and reading about RF "eyes" for robots.
> >
> > Most modern arena's have a concrete slab which should be different
> > enough in its RF reflection properties to allow a sort of radar
> > distance measurement. Hold the senser against the ice surface and
> > shoot. The distance is the thickness of the ice (usually somewhere
> > between 3/4 and 1 1/2 inches).
> >
> > Anyone ever see anything similar in their travels? Not that I think
> > I'm capable of making one by any means, but its something that would
> > be interesting to learn about.
have any air on top of the ice. You need to couple it with acoustical
gel/liquid. In this case water would work. Then all you need to do is time
the pulses, after determining the 'right' echo to listen to. You will get
echoes from the transducer to ice interface, bubbles in the ice (if any), and
the ice/cement interface.
I don't know about measuring Ice, but I did work on a railroad rail
application 10 years ago. We used mineral Oil in the transducer housing, and
sprayed water on the rails for coupling. Using an 8051 type micro it had a
hard time separating the different echo pulses. I assume it needed some DSP
type of processing, and that was way beyond my Bit Bashing mentality. The
project got canceled when the company went out of business.
I know this isn't much help to find a solution, but hopefully it will help
you avoid some pitfalls.
Alan Bradford
Plasma Technologies
a bit too high tech.
Think "Stud sensor". These somehow detect changes in density of the
surface you're against (something about capacitance changes). Since
most need some sort of zeroing before each use (some press a button
when you're over "clear" wall, some use a thumbwheel) I would think
that the capacitance changes could indicate thickness. This is
somewhat backed up by what NASA is doing to detect ice layer
thickness on the liquid fuel tank. Not sure if this would work for
ice but, who knows [noparse]:D[/noparse] I'll do a little test here at work. Find a
known thick area of ice to "zero" the sensor then run around and see
what happens in thinner areas.