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Drive 12V Relay — Parallax Forums

Drive 12V Relay

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2002-05-08 15:57 in General Discussion
Sure, a standard transistor driver will do the trick. Read:
http://www.wd5gnr.com/faqs/index.php?qframe=1&faq=1&article=16

The only thing that I need to change in that article is to mention that
you need a "reverse" diode across the relay coil.

Al Williams
AWC
* Floating point math for the Stamp, PIC, SX, or any microcontroller
http://www.al-williams.com/awce/pak1.htm



>
Original Message
> From: S Parkis [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=7dFQ5-pnUmrawIxSzj2DxtU2RS60ZzZnCOHl7B2W2b1ZNJXQsHp7iHI6paBqvDy28G521g8NvgtS71YrIg]parkiss@e...[/url
> Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 11:42 PM
> To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Drive 12V Relay
>
>
> Can someone suggest a simple circuit to control a 12V (coil
> voltage) relay from a Stamp I/O pin?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
> Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-05-06 05:41
    Can someone suggest a simple circuit to control a 12V (coil voltage)
    relay from a Stamp I/O pin?

    Thanks,

    Steve
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-05-06 22:01
    510s are bad for some applications due to their relatively high on
    resistance - however it should be OK for this - however you may need heat
    sink - .54ohms*24volts = 13 watts power to dissipate !!


    http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irf510.pdf


    richard


    Original Message
    From: "S Parkis" <parkiss@e...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 4:41 PM
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Drive 12V Relay


    > Much obliged to Al & Ray for the help. After a thorough read of Al's
    > link, I think I can skip the relay and use an IFR-510 to directly do
    > the switching job. I'll be making/breaking a loop with slightly
    > under 1 Amp @ something under 50 volts DC (application: replace
    > mercury switch in evaporative cooler thermostat so I can use a Stamp
    > to control its operation).
    >
    > The way I read the IFR-510 spec's, it can handle up to 4 Amps at up
    > to 100 volts across drain to source, so this shouldn't even make it
    > breathe hard--make sense?
    >
    > Thanks again and regards,
    >
    > Steve
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-05-06 22:12
    Check the physics here. Power losses will be current times voltage loss, not
    resistance times the switched voltage. P=IV or P=(I^2)R, or something like
    (0.3^2) x 0.54 = 0.05 watts. No heat sink needed.

    Clark Hughes

    Richard Friedrich wrote:
    >
    > 510s are bad for some applications due to their relatively high on
    > resistance - however it should be OK for this - however you may need heat
    > sink - .54ohms*24volts = 13 watts power to dissipate !!
    >
    > http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irf510.pdf
    >
    > richard
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-05-06 22:22
    I thought power = E*I NOT R*E. At four amps of current we would have
    across the fet .54 ohm junction:

    I*R or .54 * 4 = 2.16 volts

    Power (E*I):

    2.16 * 4 = 8.64 watts

    Or did I miss something?

    Leroy

    I might be willing to make a small wager on whether an AC valve,
    solenoid, or other type of coil could be run on an equivalent value of
    DC, if there are any takers, I could use some extra money. :-))))



    Richard Friedrich wrote:
    >
    > 510s are bad for some applications due to their relatively high on
    > resistance - however it should be OK for this - however you may need heat
    > sink - .54ohms*24volts = 13 watts power to dissipate !!
    >
    > http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irf510.pdf
    >
    > richard
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: "S Parkis" <parkiss@e...>
    > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 4:41 PM
    > Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Drive 12V Relay
    >
    > > Much obliged to Al & Ray for the help. After a thorough read of Al's
    > > link, I think I can skip the relay and use an IFR-510 to directly do
    > > the switching job. I'll be making/breaking a loop with slightly
    > > under 1 Amp @ something under 50 volts DC (application: replace
    > > mercury switch in evaporative cooler thermostat so I can use a Stamp
    > > to control its operation).
    > >
    > > The way I read the IFR-510 spec's, it can handle up to 4 Amps at up
    > > to 100 volts across drain to source, so this shouldn't even make it
    > > breathe hard--make sense?
    > >
    > > Thanks again and regards,
    > >
    > > Steve
    > >
    > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    > Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > >
    > >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
    of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

    --
    NOTE: This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged; under no
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    NOT: Bu elektronik posta mesaj
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-05-06 22:28
    you are right, I was typing too fast and thinking too slow


    richard



    Original Message
    From: "Leroy Hall" <leroy@f...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 4:22 PM
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Drive 12V Relay


    > I thought power = E*I NOT R*E. At four amps of current we would have
    > across the fet .54 ohm junction:
    >
    > I*R or .54 * 4 = 2.16 volts
    >
    > Power (E*I):
    >
    > 2.16 * 4 = 8.64 watts
    >
    > Or did I miss something?
    >
    > Leroy
    >
    > I might be willing to make a small wager on whether an AC valve,
    > solenoid, or other type of coil could be run on an equivalent value of
    > DC, if there are any takers, I could use some extra money. :-))))
    >
    >
    >
    > Richard Friedrich wrote:
    > >
    > > 510s are bad for some applications due to their relatively high on
    > > resistance - however it should be OK for this - however you may need
    heat
    > > sink - .54ohms*24volts = 13 watts power to dissipate !!
    > >
    > > http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irf510.pdf
    > >
    > > richard
    > >
    > >
    Original Message
    > > From: "S Parkis" <parkiss@e...>
    > > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > > Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 4:41 PM
    > > Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Drive 12V Relay
    > >
    > > > Much obliged to Al & Ray for the help. After a thorough read of Al's
    > > > link, I think I can skip the relay and use an IFR-510 to directly do
    > > > the switching job. I'll be making/breaking a loop with slightly
    > > > under 1 Amp @ something under 50 volts DC (application: replace
    > > > mercury switch in evaporative cooler thermostat so I can use a Stamp
    > > > to control its operation).
    > > >
    > > > The way I read the IFR-510 spec's, it can handle up to 4 Amps at up
    > > > to 100 volts across drain to source, so this shouldn't even make it
    > > > breathe hard--make sense?
    > > >
    > > > Thanks again and regards,
    > > >
    > > > Steve
    > > >
    > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
    and
    > > Body of the message will be ignored.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
    and Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    > --
    > NOTE: This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged; under no
    > circumstances should you forward it, or copy or disclose its contents,
    > to any other person without the prior consent of the sender. If you are
    > not an intended recipient of this e-mail, please notify us immediately.
    > Internet communications are not secure and subject to possible data
    > corruption, either accidentally or on purpose, and may contain viruses.
    > Furthermore e-mail is an informal and often abbreviated method of
    > communication. For these reasons, it will normally be inappropriate to
    > rely on any information or advice contained herein without also
    > discussing it with the sender.
    >
    > (The note below is a Turkish version of the above disclaimer)
    >
    > NOT: Bu elektronik posta mesaj
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-05-06 22:37
    Did I miss something?

    .54 ohms (1/2 ohm) at 24 volts is 44.4 AMPS! (E=IR) (I=E/R)
    (R=E/I) (P=I*E) 24 * 44.4 = 1066.6 watts!

    Did I read the resistance correct as point 54 ohms?? (1/2 ohm? Were
    talking almost a dead short here !! ) Did you perhaps mean .54 amps?? That
    would be 13 watts..

    Mike B.

    Original Message
    From: "J. Clark Hughes" <jchughes@a...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 2:12 PM
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Drive 12V Relay


    > Check the physics here. Power losses will be current times voltage loss,
    not
    > resistance times the switched voltage. P=IV or P=(I^2)R, or something
    like
    > (0.3^2) x 0.54 = 0.05 watts. No heat sink needed.
    >
    > Clark Hughes
    >
    > Richard Friedrich wrote:
    > >
    > > 510s are bad for some applications due to their relatively high on
    > > resistance - however it should be OK for this - however you may need
    heat
    > > sink - .54ohms*24volts = 13 watts power to dissipate !!
    > >
    > > http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irf510.pdf
    > >
    > > richard
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-05-06 22:41
    Much obliged to Al & Ray for the help. After a thorough read of Al's
    link, I think I can skip the relay and use an IFR-510 to directly do
    the switching job. I'll be making/breaking a loop with slightly
    under 1 Amp @ something under 50 volts DC (application: replace
    mercury switch in evaporative cooler thermostat so I can use a Stamp
    to control its operation).

    The way I read the IFR-510 spec's, it can handle up to 4 Amps at up
    to 100 volts across drain to source, so this shouldn't even make it
    breathe hard--make sense?

    Thanks again and regards,

    Steve
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-05-06 23:28
    At 17:22 05/06/02, Leroy Hall wrote:
    >I thought power = E*I NOT R*E. At four amps of current we would have
    >across the fet .54 ohm junction:
    >
    >I*R or .54 * 4 = 2.16 volts
    >
    >Power (E*I):
    >
    >2.16 * 4 = 8.64 watts
    >
    >Or did I miss something?
    >
    >Leroy
    >
    >I might be willing to make a small wager on whether an AC valve,
    >solenoid, or other type of coil could be run on an equivalent value of
    >DC, if there are any takers, I could use some extra money. :-))))

    Leroy, I've seen 120 VAC coils burned up by 24 VDC. It all depends on the
    DC resistance of the coil. I'm sure you can find a solenoid that works
    fine if you search hard enough, but in general, without knowing the
    specifications of the solenoid beforehand, recommending use of DC to power
    an AC solenoid, voltage remaining the same, is a very bad idea. As to any
    bet, Leroy, just give it a few hours to a day and maybe some of the other
    guys who have been there will straignten you out - and it won't cost you a
    dime.

    >NOTE: This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged; under no
    >circumstances should you forward it, or copy or disclose its contents,
    >to any other person without the prior consent of the sender. If you are
    >not an intended recipient of this e-mail, please notify us immediately.
    >Internet communications are not secure and subject to possible data
    >corruption, either accidentally or on purpose, and may contain viruses.
    >Furthermore e-mail is an informal and often abbreviated method of
    >communication. For these reasons, it will normally be inappropriate to
    >rely on any information or advice contained herein without also
    >discussing it with the sender.
    >
    >(The note below is a Turkish version of the above disclaimer)
    >
    >NOT: Bu elektronik posta mesaj
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-05-07 02:38
    Steve,

    I use a Darlington driver circuit in a ULN2003A (Allegra) for this
    purpose. Stamp pin ---> Driver Input. Driver Output ---> 1K pullup
    resistor ---> 5 Volts. Driver Ouput ---> Low (Common) side of relay.
    12V ---> High side of relay. Setting the Stamp pin High grounds the
    relay driver circuit, and turns the relay on. This Open Collector
    configuration is described in the BS1 Stamp Manual in the section on
    driving a Unipolar stepper motor with only 2 Stamp pins.

    Dennis

    Original Message
    From: S Parkis [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=SmLbK56iSExzchOjnPQ7e76r8xUJSgo0uD1jq3HcO84Z77trXghoHWutOyxJnn-S2mbx3c8GFVaxbdzCedAQTA]parkiss@e...[/url
    Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 9:42 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Drive 12V Relay


    Can someone suggest a simple circuit to control a 12V (coil voltage)
    relay from a Stamp I/O pin?

    Thanks,

    Steve

    To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
    and Body of the message will be ignored.


    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-05-07 05:54
    At 08:41 PM 5/5/02 -0800, S Parkis wrote:
    >Can someone suggest a simple circuit to control a 12V (coil voltage)
    >relay from a Stamp I/O pin?

    Steve - what is the intended load?

    The simplest technique is a single NPN transistor such as 2n4401: E
    grounded, B to stamp pin via a 1K resistor, C to one leg of relay coil,
    other leg of relay coil to +12V supply, 1n4001 diode connected across relay
    coil with cathode (stripe) to + supply.

    For added reliability, add another 1K resistor from E to B on the
    transistor. This does 2 things: keeps the transistor turned OFF if the
    Stamp pin should ever be left as an input and also improves the noise
    immunity of the relay driver: it now takes at least 1.1V with at least half
    an mA before the transistor can turn on.

    dwayne


    Dwayne Reid <dwayner@p...>
    Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA
    (780) 489-3199 voice (780) 487-6397 fax

    Celebrating 18 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2002)
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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-05-08 07:44
    The "resistance" of an AC coil is if fact the term impedance, denoted by
    the character Z. Z is a function of the DC resistance and the reactance
    of the coil XL. XL is derived from the term 2PIfl, where pi= 3.141
    (approx) f is the frequency of the AC supply, and l = is the inductance
    of the coil.

    Z= SQR (XL^2 * R^2).

    Typically in a coil designed for AC use R is small and XL is large (this
    determines "Q" factor, but we won't go there). And that is why using AC
    coils on DC is not a hot idea.

    Rob

    Original Message
    From: Jim Higgins [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=qrJGjAHIk2IS_ci1EVSCc_nLre4Imny-9G7ZmT-zWxKFzSBXZl6WxYef_xSRJBOb-OHR2xi3Axz-]HigginsJ@s...[/url
    Sent: 06 May 2002 23:28
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Drive 12V Relay

    At 17:22 05/06/02, Leroy Hall wrote:
    >I thought power = E*I NOT R*E. At four amps of current we would have
    >across the fet .54 ohm junction:
    >
    >I*R or .54 * 4 = 2.16 volts
    >
    >Power (E*I):
    >
    >2.16 * 4 = 8.64 watts
    >
    >Or did I miss something?
    >
    >Leroy
    >
    >I might be willing to make a small wager on whether an AC valve,
    >solenoid, or other type of coil could be run on an equivalent value of
    >DC, if there are any takers, I could use some extra money. :-))))

    Leroy, I've seen 120 VAC coils burned up by 24 VDC. It all depends on
    the
    DC resistance of the coil. I'm sure you can find a solenoid that works
    fine if you search hard enough, but in general, without knowing the
    specifications of the solenoid beforehand, recommending use of DC to
    power
    an AC solenoid, voltage remaining the same, is a very bad idea. As to
    any
    bet, Leroy, just give it a few hours to a day and maybe some of the
    other
    guys who have been there will straignten you out - and it won't cost you
    a
    dime.

    >NOTE: This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged; under no
    >circumstances should you forward it, or copy or disclose its contents,
    >to any other person without the prior consent of the sender. If you are
    >not an intended recipient of this e-mail, please notify us immediately.
    >Internet communications are not secure and subject to possible data
    >corruption, either accidentally or on purpose, and may contain viruses.
    >Furthermore e-mail is an informal and often abbreviated method of
    >communication. For these reasons, it will normally be inappropriate to
    >rely on any information or advice contained herein without also
    >discussing it with the sender.
    >
    >(The note below is a Turkish version of the above disclaimer)
    >
    >NOT: Bu elektronik posta mesaj
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-05-08 07:50
    Error in formula:-

    Z= SQR (XL^2 * R^2).

    Should be:-

    Z= SQR (XL^2 + R^2).

    Hey, it's early in the morning, that's my excuse.

    Rob
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-05-08 15:57
    But I thought the point of the whole matter was that it is a 'HOT'
    idea! Would a small resistor, sized appropriately, be a bad idea as
    well? I would think the DC current should be reduced to the same value
    as the RMS AC current as the coil would normally use?

    Leroy

    Rob wrote:
    >
    > The "resistance" of an AC coil is if fact the term impedance, denoted by
    > the character Z. Z is a function of the DC resistance and the reactance
    > of the coil XL. XL is derived from the term 2PIfl, where pi= 3.141
    > (approx) f is the frequency of the AC supply, and l = is the inductance
    > of the coil.
    >
    > Z= SQR (XL^2 * R^2).
    >
    > Typically in a coil designed for AC use R is small and XL is large (this
    > determines "Q" factor, but we won't go there). And that is why using AC
    > coils on DC is not a hot idea.
    >
    > Rob
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: Jim Higgins [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=702yRaSSQPJRqTWSTVvyewwOeQoJoNjMIiz8VcUizTUDcsNp3PFheOxV8ERO95ZaJM4BO_ESvdCAnfEWEA]HigginsJ@s...[/url
    > Sent: 06 May 2002 23:28
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Drive 12V Relay
    >
    > At 17:22 05/06/02, Leroy Hall wrote:
    > >I thought power = E*I NOT R*E. At four amps of current we would have
    > >across the fet .54 ohm junction:
    > >
    > >I*R or .54 * 4 = 2.16 volts
    > >
    > >Power (E*I):
    > >
    > >2.16 * 4 = 8.64 watts
    > >
    > >Or did I miss something?
    > >
    > >Leroy
    > >
    > >I might be willing to make a small wager on whether an AC valve,
    > >solenoid, or other type of coil could be run on an equivalent value of
    > >DC, if there are any takers, I could use some extra money. :-))))
    >
    > Leroy, I've seen 120 VAC coils burned up by 24 VDC. It all depends on
    > the
    > DC resistance of the coil. I'm sure you can find a solenoid that works
    > fine if you search hard enough, but in general, without knowing the
    > specifications of the solenoid beforehand, recommending use of DC to
    > power
    > an AC solenoid, voltage remaining the same, is a very bad idea. As to
    > any
    > bet, Leroy, just give it a few hours to a day and maybe some of the
    > other
    > guys who have been there will straignten you out - and it won't cost you
    > a
    > dime.
    >
    > >NOTE: This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged; under no
    > >circumstances should you forward it, or copy or disclose its contents,
    > >to any other person without the prior consent of the sender. If you are
    > >not an intended recipient of this e-mail, please notify us immediately.
    > >Internet communications are not secure and subject to possible data
    > >corruption, either accidentally or on purpose, and may contain viruses.
    > >Furthermore e-mail is an informal and often abbreviated method of
    > >communication. For these reasons, it will normally be inappropriate to
    > >rely on any information or advice contained herein without also
    > >discussing it with the sender.
    > >
    > >(The note below is a Turkish version of the above disclaimer)
    > >
    > >NOT: Bu elektronik posta mesaj
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