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Javelin Stamp as interpretator or Javelin — Parallax Forums

Javelin Stamp as interpretator or Javelin

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2002-03-23 19:13 in General Discussion
So are we talking about a Java front end on the PC generating
virtually the same set of tokens for interpretation by the Stamp?
IOW, is the Stamp interpreter "core" pretty much unchanged (16-bit
workspace, integer math, no interrupts...) aside from the VPs?

No criticism/offense intended--only trying to get a feel for this
new critter. The Javelin sounds like a great tool to learn/teach
Java; I'm just trying to decide if it's worth learning Java in order
to use a Javelin.

Regards,

Steve


On 19 Mar 02 at 17:42, selmaware wrote:

> The Javelin IDE compiles the program into compressed byte codes. An
> on-stamp interpreter then uses the byte-code program to run. -Martin
> Hebel

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-03-19 13:34
    Jon-

    Thanks for the reply. Maybe I'm just having a prolonged senior
    moment or I'm jumping the documentation gun, but I'm in a very thick
    fog here. I've yet to see real specifics about what the Javelin
    Stamp offers over a BASIC Stamp in terms of the language itself.
    This is not a criticism--it's meant as feedback to Parallax.

    Because it's a Parallax product, I'd expect it to be "cool" but that
    tells me little about its functionality. What new tricks can a
    Javelin Stamp do? For us non-Java-heads, why would the effort be
    worth it--what could we do (again, functionality) with a Javelin
    Stamp that we couldn't with a BASIC Stamp? Likewise, "subset of
    Java" raises more questions for me than it answers. Some specifics
    of the Javelin's language would help. For instance:

    - variables types allowed (integer, float, long, arrays...?)
    - control structures (if-then-else, case, do-while...?)
    - native math support (trig, log, sqr, exponentiation...?)
    - interrupt processing capabilities?

    Please, I'm begging you, convince me that I need at least one!

    Thanks and regards,

    Steve
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-03-19 19:34
    You might be better off with a Dallas Semiconductor TINI to learn Java on...
    Cheaper, floating point math, and upto 1MB SRAM for 67$.

    Robert Staph, W3RCS
    The Center for Advanced Technologies


    Original Message
    From: "S Parkis" <parkiss@e...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 10:20 PM
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Javelin Stamp as interpretator or Javelin


    > So are we talking about a Java front end on the PC generating
    > virtually the same set of tokens for interpretation by the Stamp?
    > IOW, is the Stamp interpreter "core" pretty much unchanged (16-bit
    > workspace, integer math, no interrupts...) aside from the VPs?
    >
    > No criticism/offense intended--only trying to get a feel for this
    > new critter. The Javelin sounds like a great tool to learn/teach
    > Java; I'm just trying to decide if it's worth learning Java in order
    > to use a Javelin.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Steve
    >
    >
    > On 19 Mar 02 at 17:42, selmaware wrote:
    >
    > > The Javelin IDE compiles the program into compressed byte codes. An
    > > on-stamp interpreter then uses the byte-code program to run. -Martin
    > > Hebel
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-03-19 22:48
    Two comments related to both of these messages:

    The Javelin is not a Stamp and as far as I know does not use the same
    tokenized codes (I didn't say it doesn't use tokenized codes; I said not
    the same ones). The compiler is all new and it isn't just a new piece of
    software on the PC side. For example, code is stored in EEPROM but runs
    from RAM (fast).

    I've used the TINI. It is great -- like a little bitty PC on a SIMM.
    However, as I pointed out in my article in embedded about the TINI and
    the Javelin (someone recently posted that link) they really are apples
    an oranges.

    The TINI is like a little PC and so has all the problems PCs have.
    Unpredictable garbage collection; hard to quantify execution times; etc.
    The Javelin is very much like a Stamp in that it is predictable and has
    specialized commands to do the things you often do in embedded systems.
    The language is Java-like, but not Java for this reason.

    Al Williams
    AWC
    * 8 channels of PWM
    http://www.al-williams.com/awce/pak5.htm



    >
    Original Message
    > From: Robert Staph [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=TUqIy_Rtmxv-vD42D3RQMVOGWpUaYEI8igyCMIFRBVytI6ME900fLG7LrD9oQ40BqU798EeWxsKRzg]rstaph@a...[/url
    > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 1:35 PM
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Javelin Stamp as interpretator
    > or Javelin
    >
    >
    > You might be better off with a Dallas Semiconductor TINI to
    > learn Java on... Cheaper, floating point math, and upto 1MB
    > SRAM for 67$.
    >
    > Robert Staph, W3RCS
    > The Center for Advanced Technologies
    >
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: "S Parkis" <parkiss@e...>
    > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 10:20 PM
    > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Javelin Stamp as interpretator
    > or Javelin
    >
    >
    > > So are we talking about a Java front end on the PC generating
    > > virtually the same set of tokens for interpretation by the
    > Stamp? IOW,
    > > is the Stamp interpreter "core" pretty much unchanged (16-bit
    > > workspace, integer math, no interrupts...) aside from the VPs?
    > >
    > > No criticism/offense intended--only trying to get a feel
    > for this new
    > > critter. The Javelin sounds like a great tool to learn/teach Java;
    > > I'm just trying to decide if it's worth learning Java in
    > order to use
    > > a Javelin.
    > >
    > > Regards,
    > >
    > > Steve
    > >
    > >
    > > On 19 Mar 02 at 17:42, selmaware wrote:
    > >
    > > > The Javelin IDE compiles the program into compressed byte
    > codes. An
    > > > on-stamp interpreter then uses the byte-code program to
    > run. -Martin
    > > > Hebel
    > >
    > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in
    > the Subject
    > > and
    > Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
    > Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-03-19 23:13
    It is not the same token set. The byte-codes are generated by a standard
    Java compiler (we use Jikes, from IBM) and are not Stamp-compatible (that is,
    Javelin tokens will not run on a BASIC Stamp). In fact, the Javelin team had
    to work pretty hard to create a lot of Stamp compatibility in the Javelin
    library.

    In the end, it's a cool new product and Java-heads around the world wanting
    to get into embedded control will be happy. For the rest of us who have
    already had fun with the BASIC Stamp, I feel that learning Java is worth it
    and it gives us another tool to solve problems with.

    The Javelin won't replace the BASIC Stamp, it's just a cool new beast in the
    line. More choices for more programmers -- especially those who turn their
    nose up at BASIC.

    -- Jon Williams
    -- Parallax


    In a message dated 3/19/02 1:32:25 PM Central Standard Time,
    parkiss@e... writes:


    > So are we talking about a Java front end on the PC generating
    > virtually the same set of tokens for interpretation by the Stamp?
    > IOW, is the Stamp interpreter "core" pretty much unchanged (16-bit
    > workspace, integer math, no interrupts...) aside from the VPs?
    >
    > No criticism/offense intended--only trying to get a feel for this
    > new critter. The Javelin sounds like a great tool to learn/teach
    > Java; I'm just trying to decide if it's worth learning Java in order
    > to use a Javelin.
    >




    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-03-20 00:12
    On Tue, 19 Mar 2002, Al Williams wrote:

    > The TINI is like a little PC and so has all the problems PCs have.
    > Unpredictable garbage collection; hard to quantify execution times; etc.
    > The Javelin is very much like a Stamp in that it is predictable and has
    > specialized commands to do the things you often do in embedded systems.
    > The language is Java-like, but not Java for this reason.

    What? The PC's garbage collection / execution times issue have solely to
    do with the software that runs on them (notably the operating system), not
    anything inherent with the PC. If you run an actual RTOS on top of a PC,
    with a preemptable kernel, etc, you'll find extremely predictable run
    times. At its core, they're not so different, the PC system is just faster
    and has a more complex architecture.


    Sean T. Lamont, CTO / Chief NetNerd, Abstract Software, Inc. (ServNet)
    Seattle - Bellingham - Vancouver - Portland - Everett - Tacoma - Bremerton
    email: lamont@a... WWW: http://www.serv.net
    "Do not fear mistakes, There Are None" - Miles Davis
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-03-20 00:24
    Yes, of course. What I should have said was a PC running a typical JVM
    on a typical OS.

    Al Williams
    AWC




    >
    Original Message
    > From: Sean T. Lamont .lost. [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=TLzRBUWe1Zd21Il7Jn6c0kv_EHQTBno-nX-YUOSrDDIORFvsQIkSCplc1oDUFAF9RRbLzw8qvsq0OAXh3w]lamont@a...[/url
    > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 6:12 PM
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Javelin Stamp as interpretator
    > or Javelin
    >
    >
    > On Tue, 19 Mar 2002, Al Williams wrote:
    >
    > > The TINI is like a little PC and so has all the problems PCs have.
    > > Unpredictable garbage collection; hard to quantify execution times;
    > > etc. The Javelin is very much like a Stamp in that it is
    > predictable
    > > and has specialized commands to do the things you often do
    > in embedded
    > > systems. The language is Java-like, but not Java for this reason.
    >
    > What? The PC's garbage collection / execution times issue
    > have solely to do with the software that runs on them
    > (notably the operating system), not anything inherent with
    > the PC. If you run an actual RTOS on top of a PC, with a
    > preemptable kernel, etc, you'll find extremely predictable
    > run times. At its core, they're not so different, the PC
    > system is just faster and has a more complex architecture.
    >
    >
    > Sean T. Lamont, CTO / Chief NetNerd, Abstract Software, Inc.
    > (ServNet)
    > Seattle - Bellingham - Vancouver - Portland - Everett -
    > Tacoma - Bremerton
    > email: lamont@a... WWW: http://www.serv.net
    > "Do not fear mistakes, There Are None" - Miles Davis
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
    > Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-03-20 02:37
    I took a look at the Tini and although it is most interesting, there is a 12
    week or longer waiting period to get one at this time. Although it is a nice
    product, it
    looks like you'd need more than just the SIMM stick board to get it working.
    You have
    to fill out their software license agreement, and you'd still need software
    to program it with, that looked to be extra but there wasn't info on it.
    Plus you'd probably need their dev board in order to get started.
    https://store.ibutton.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/CategoryDisplay?cgrfnbr=804&cgm
    enbr=776&cg=804
    The Javalin is a lot easier to deal with in that respect, and we don't have
    a 12 week plus waiting period. Albeit, the 512kb or 1mb models are mighty
    tempting. All you have to do is plug the javelin into a Stamp proto board of
    some type, hook up the serial port and your in business. 32kb is nice to
    deal with when your starting. Plus they have support a manual etc., with the
    TINI your on your own.


    Original Message
    From: Robert Staph [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=1FkkDdZYdhhEB53bAkp--u0BJbYMaH7w1Miiudj63-J9KEynaxVpcUVrXrhC6B-ET3arBnecwfVM4sib]rstaph@a...[/url
    Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 1:35 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Javelin Stamp as interpretator or Javelin


    You might be better off with a Dallas Semiconductor TINI to learn Java on...
    Cheaper, floating point math, and upto 1MB SRAM for 67$.

    Robert Staph, W3RCS
    The Center for Advanced Technologies


    Original Message
    From: "S Parkis" <parkiss@e...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 10:20 PM
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Javelin Stamp as interpretator or Javelin


    > So are we talking about a Java front end on the PC generating
    > virtually the same set of tokens for interpretation by the Stamp?
    > IOW, is the Stamp interpreter "core" pretty much unchanged (16-bit
    > workspace, integer math, no interrupts...) aside from the VPs?
    >
    > No criticism/offense intended--only trying to get a feel for this
    > new critter. The Javelin sounds like a great tool to learn/teach
    > Java; I'm just trying to decide if it's worth learning Java in order
    > to use a Javelin.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Steve
    >
    >
    > On 19 Mar 02 at 17:42, selmaware wrote:
    >
    > > The Javelin IDE compiles the program into compressed byte codes. An
    > > on-stamp interpreter then uses the byte-code program to run. -Martin
    > > Hebel
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >


    To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.


    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-03-20 04:33
    Just a suggestion, I've found the limitations of the stamp harder to deal
    with than just moving on to something better. Parallax does have a wickedly
    advanced manual compared to EVERY other micro I've found. Couple that with
    the great learning activities created by Parallax and others and its the
    best bet for entry into the world of micros. But all that doesn't make up
    for the lack of floating point math for me.

    Now the multi-tasking of the Javelin may get parallax one more purchase from
    me, but after that only floating point math will get me to take another
    look.

    As far as the wait, that can't be helped, you'll be waiting a couple of
    weeks for the Javelin I think too. Especially if Parallax didn't make
    enough for the rush I suspect there will be on them. But there are other
    package solutions dealing with the TINI from third parties. You may want to
    check to see if UVI has any of their stuff in stock
    http://www.vinculum.com/products.php From what I've seen some prices on the
    the Javelin Stamp Starter Kit (#27237 - $239) you could put together a nice
    TINI setup.

    Software is just a little extra config from the standard free JDK from Sun.

    -Rob

    Original Message
    From: "Earl Bollinger" <earlwbollinger@a...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 9:37 PM
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Javelin Stamp as interpretator or Javelin


    >
    > I took a look at the Tini and although it is most interesting, there is a
    12
    > week or longer waiting period to get one at this time. Although it is a
    nice
    > product, it
    > looks like you'd need more than just the SIMM stick board to get it
    working.
    > You have
    > to fill out their software license agreement, and you'd still need
    software
    > to program it with, that looked to be extra but there wasn't info on it.
    > Plus you'd probably need their dev board in order to get started.
    >
    https://store.ibutton.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/CategoryDisplay?cgrfnbr=804&cgm
    > enbr=776&cg=804
    > The Javalin is a lot easier to deal with in that respect, and we don't
    have
    > a 12 week plus waiting period. Albeit, the 512kb or 1mb models are mighty
    > tempting. All you have to do is plug the javelin into a Stamp proto board
    of
    > some type, hook up the serial port and your in business. 32kb is nice to
    > deal with when your starting. Plus they have support a manual etc., with
    the
    > TINI your on your own.
    >
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: Robert Staph [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=8efCMJMSIj3xBzDahVkVdt54zGiaTegFtbWqqxG-WrL918Srw9SZbSU4YpKsjDi-37vnV5TFM5e7F60]rstaph@a...[/url
    > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 1:35 PM
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Javelin Stamp as interpretator or Javelin
    >
    >
    > You might be better off with a Dallas Semiconductor TINI to learn Java
    on...
    > Cheaper, floating point math, and upto 1MB SRAM for 67$.
    >
    > Robert Staph, W3RCS
    > The Center for Advanced Technologies
    >
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: "S Parkis" <parkiss@e...>
    > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 10:20 PM
    > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Javelin Stamp as interpretator or Javelin
    >
    >
    > > So are we talking about a Java front end on the PC generating
    > > virtually the same set of tokens for interpretation by the Stamp?
    > > IOW, is the Stamp interpreter "core" pretty much unchanged (16-bit
    > > workspace, integer math, no interrupts...) aside from the VPs?
    > >
    > > No criticism/offense intended--only trying to get a feel for this
    > > new critter. The Javelin sounds like a great tool to learn/teach
    > > Java; I'm just trying to decide if it's worth learning Java in order
    > > to use a Javelin.
    > >
    > > Regards,
    > >
    > > Steve
    > >
    > >
    > > On 19 Mar 02 at 17:42, selmaware wrote:
    > >
    > > > The Javelin IDE compiles the program into compressed byte codes. An
    > > > on-stamp interpreter then uses the byte-code program to run. -Martin
    > > > Hebel
    > >
    > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
    and
    > Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    > Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-03-20 06:47
    Since I am not yet a "Java-head" I should leave it to the experts and point
    those interested to the web site: www.javelinstamp.com.

    Here's what excites me:

    -- flat 32K program space
    -- structured programming
    -- reusable, object-oriented code
    -- up to six virtual peripherals (background tasks)

    The VPs will probably get the most attention from Stamp users. Receiving
    serial data on-the-fly is now available by installing a receive UART VP.
    Other VPs are ADC, DAC, PWM (motor control -- not D2A like BASIC Stamp) and a
    timer.

    Yes, the language is a subset of Java -- having mostly to do with it being an
    embedded micro versus running on a PC. So those libraries that are important
    to the PC world (i.e., graphics) are not appropriate and not included. The
    Javelin Stamp comes with custom classes that aren't found in the PC world --
    again, having to do with embedded control.

    The are, of course, other differences between Java and the Javelin and they
    are detailed in the manual that can be downloaded from the Javelin web site.

    -- Jon Williams
    -- Parallax


    In a message dated 3/19/02 11:48:18 PM Central Standard Time,
    parkiss@e... writes:


    > Jon-
    >
    > Thanks for the reply. Maybe I'm just having a prolonged senior
    > moment or I'm jumping the documentation gun, but I'm in a very thick
    > fog here. I've yet to see real specifics about what the Javelin
    > Stamp offers over a BASIC Stamp in terms of the language itself.
    > This is not a criticism--it's meant as feedback to Parallax.
    >
    > Because it's a Parallax product, I'd expect it to be "cool" but that
    > tells me little about its functionality. What new tricks can a
    > Javelin Stamp do? For us non-Java-heads, why would the effort be
    > worth it--what could we do (again, functionality) with a Javelin
    > Stamp that we couldn't with a BASIC Stamp? Likewise, "subset of
    > Java" raises more questions for me than it answers. Some specifics
    > of the Javelin's language would help. For instance:
    >
    > - variables types allowed (integer, float, long, arrays...?)
    > - control structures (if-then-else, case, do-while...?)
    > - native math support (trig, log, sqr, exponentiation...?)
    > - interrupt processing capabilities?
    >
    > Please, I'm begging you, convince me that I need at least one!
    >
    > Thanks and regards,
    >
    > Steve
    >




    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-03-20 19:32
    Hi,

    For a BASIC Stamp user the benefits are in four areas:

    * Background I/O

    This is a ability to run multiple buffered UARTs, or PWM, or ADC in the
    background while doing other processing. I think that for any BASIC Stamp
    user the benefits are obvious.

    * More memory

    You will find that 32kB is a lot more memory in practice than it sounds like
    on paper. I have written a large number of very complex applications with
    the Javelin and running out of memory has never been an issue. Having more
    memory means that you can write simpler code and not have to think so hard
    about carefully allocating registers.

    * Structured programming language

    IMHO this is the largest benefit of all, although it is perhaps the least
    obvious benefit too. Being a structured language, Java encourages
    programmers to divide their programs up into suboutines (called methods in
    Java) and classes. Although there is more to learn so that you can take
    advantage of methods and classes, the payback is immense in terms of more
    readable code, fewer bugs, and greater reusability. If you have ever read
    anything about Java you will probably have have come across this term
    'reusability' before. Java allows programmers to group functionality
    together into a class (for non object-oriented programmers, you can consider
    a class to simply be a file with contains related code), an example of a
    class might be a collection of methods for accessing a DS1620 digital
    thermometer. By collecting all of the I/O routines necessary for the DS1620
    into a single class and providing a simple set of methods (like
    'getCelsiusTemp()') you can hide the complexity of a subset of your program
    behind an easy to use interface. The real power comes when you can reuse
    code developed by other people, and the Java file structure makes this easy.
    For example, the floating point support that several people have asked for
    can be released as an add-on class which is easily integrated into an
    existing project.

    * Interactive debugging

    Interative, step, run, stop and variable inspection makes it easier and
    faster to identify and fix problems.


    All of these benefits together mean that you can build larger systems more
    quickly, and more reliably.

    Regards,

    Chris.

    >
    Original Message
    > From: S Parkis [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=d_LeVRYI6R9rxRCTLN7lvoszw-laNCoxyll_egJc3roDmfOAnr7fQfSCS-HFbxMwMlwfXiYPVZ-zssRy]parkiss@e...[/url
    > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 5:35 AM
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Javelin Stamp as interpretator
    > or Javelin
    >
    >
    > Jon-
    >
    > Thanks for the reply. Maybe I'm just having a prolonged senior
    > moment or I'm jumping the documentation gun, but I'm in a very thick
    > fog here. I've yet to see real specifics about what the Javelin
    > Stamp offers over a BASIC Stamp in terms of the language itself.
    > This is not a criticism--it's meant as feedback to Parallax.
    >
    > Because it's a Parallax product, I'd expect it to be "cool" but that
    > tells me little about its functionality. What new tricks can a
    > Javelin Stamp do? For us non-Java-heads, why would the effort be
    > worth it--what could we do (again, functionality) with a Javelin
    > Stamp that we couldn't with a BASIC Stamp? Likewise, "subset of
    > Java" raises more questions for me than it answers. Some specifics
    > of the Javelin's language would help. For instance:
    >
    > - variables types allowed (integer, float, long, arrays...?)
    > - control structures (if-then-else, case, do-while...?)
    > - native math support (trig, log, sqr, exponentiation...?)
    > - interrupt processing capabilities?
    >
    > Please, I'm begging you, convince me that I need at least one!
    >
    > Thanks and regards,
    >
    > Steve
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
    > Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-03-20 22:40
    Sounds alot like what an OOPic has as far as the virtual peripherals.
    However, to be totally comparable you need some really sucky documentation
    and too-small holes drilled in your expansion boards. <grin>

    Original Message

    > Since I am not yet a "Java-head" I should leave it to the experts and
    point
    > those interested to the web site: www.javelinstamp.com.
    >
    > Here's what excites me:
    >
    > -- flat 32K program space
    > -- structured programming
    > -- reusable, object-oriented code
    > -- up to six virtual peripherals (background tasks)
    >
    > The VPs will probably get the most attention from Stamp users. Receiving
    > serial data on-the-fly is now available by installing a receive UART VP.
    > Other VPs are ADC, DAC, PWM (motor control -- not D2A like BASIC Stamp)
    and a
    > timer.
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-03-20 22:55
    The structured programming excites me a bit. My BS2 code always ends up
    looking horrible, much because of language limitations. Even commodore
    basic could do a statement like "if x=0 then y=y+1", something that you
    can't do on a BS2 without an ugly label/branch. The VP stuff is cool, but
    I'm not sure if it might actually be cheaper to buy a real uart?


    On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Rodent wrote:

    > Sounds alot like what an OOPic has as far as the virtual peripherals.
    > However, to be totally comparable you need some really sucky documentation
    > and too-small holes drilled in your expansion boards. <grin>
    >
    >
    Original Message
    >
    > > Since I am not yet a "Java-head" I should leave it to the experts and
    > point
    > > those interested to the web site: www.javelinstamp.com.
    > >
    > > Here's what excites me:
    > >
    > > -- flat 32K program space
    > > -- structured programming
    > > -- reusable, object-oriented code
    > > -- up to six virtual peripherals (background tasks)
    > >
    > > The VPs will probably get the most attention from Stamp users. Receiving
    > > serial data on-the-fly is now available by installing a receive UART VP.
    > > Other VPs are ADC, DAC, PWM (motor control -- not D2A like BASIC Stamp)
    > and a
    > > timer.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
    of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >

    Sean T. Lamont, CTO / Chief NetNerd, Abstract Software, Inc. (ServNet)
    Seattle - Bellingham - Vancouver - Portland - Everett - Tacoma - Bremerton
    email: lamont@a... WWW: http://www.serv.net
    "Do not fear mistakes, There Are None" - Miles Davis
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-03-23 19:13
    Robert,

    There is a floating point class written for the Javelin. It still needs
    some refinement and might not make it into the install package. Not to
    worry though, if it does not appear in the install package, it will be
    available soon from www.javelinstamp.com.

    Regards, Andy

    Original Message
    From: Robert Staph [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=y_PdrGCV2pDF4g_q23bcst6hv9Dmx0XfAvaJWCKFiYpHnMi1lRIJbWaTOabMl1Y9caHF93Jd5RmgejZj]rstaph@a...[/url
    Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 8:33 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Javelin Stamp as interpretator or Javelin


    Just a suggestion, I've found the limitations of the stamp harder to deal
    with than just moving on to something better. Parallax does have a wickedly
    advanced manual compared to EVERY other micro I've found. Couple that with
    the great learning activities created by Parallax and others and its the
    best bet for entry into the world of micros. But all that doesn't make up
    for the lack of floating point math for me.

    Now the multi-tasking of the Javelin may get parallax one more purchase from
    me, but after that only floating point math will get me to take another
    look.

    As far as the wait, that can't be helped, you'll be waiting a couple of
    weeks for the Javelin I think too. Especially if Parallax didn't make
    enough for the rush I suspect there will be on them. But there are other
    package solutions dealing with the TINI from third parties. You may want to
    check to see if UVI has any of their stuff in stock
    http://www.vinculum.com/products.php From what I've seen some prices on the
    the Javelin Stamp Starter Kit (#27237 - $239) you could put together a nice
    TINI setup.

    Software is just a little extra config from the standard free JDK from Sun.

    -Rob

    Original Message
    From: "Earl Bollinger" <earlwbollinger@a...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 9:37 PM
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Javelin Stamp as interpretator or Javelin


    >
    > I took a look at the Tini and although it is most interesting, there is a
    12
    > week or longer waiting period to get one at this time. Although it is a
    nice
    > product, it
    > looks like you'd need more than just the SIMM stick board to get it
    working.
    > You have
    > to fill out their software license agreement, and you'd still need
    software
    > to program it with, that looked to be extra but there wasn't info on it.
    > Plus you'd probably need their dev board in order to get started.
    >
    https://store.ibutton.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/CategoryDisplay?cgrfnbr=804&cgm
    > enbr=776&cg=804
    > The Javalin is a lot easier to deal with in that respect, and we don't
    have
    > a 12 week plus waiting period. Albeit, the 512kb or 1mb models are mighty
    > tempting. All you have to do is plug the javelin into a Stamp proto board
    of
    > some type, hook up the serial port and your in business. 32kb is nice to
    > deal with when your starting. Plus they have support a manual etc., with
    the
    > TINI your on your own.
    >
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: Robert Staph [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=y_PdrGCV2pDF4g_q23bcst6hv9Dmx0XfAvaJWCKFiYpHnMi1lRIJbWaTOabMl1Y9caHF93Jd5RmgejZj]rstaph@a...[/url
    > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 1:35 PM
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Javelin Stamp as interpretator or Javelin
    >
    >
    > You might be better off with a Dallas Semiconductor TINI to learn Java
    on...
    > Cheaper, floating point math, and upto 1MB SRAM for 67$.
    >
    > Robert Staph, W3RCS
    > The Center for Advanced Technologies
    >
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: "S Parkis" <parkiss@e...>
    > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 10:20 PM
    > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Javelin Stamp as interpretator or Javelin
    >
    >
    > > So are we talking about a Java front end on the PC generating
    > > virtually the same set of tokens for interpretation by the Stamp?
    > > IOW, is the Stamp interpreter "core" pretty much unchanged (16-bit
    > > workspace, integer math, no interrupts...) aside from the VPs?
    > >
    > > No criticism/offense intended--only trying to get a feel for this
    > > new critter. The Javelin sounds like a great tool to learn/teach
    > > Java; I'm just trying to decide if it's worth learning Java in order
    > > to use a Javelin.
    > >
    > > Regards,
    > >
    > > Steve
    > >
    > >
    > > On 19 Mar 02 at 17:42, selmaware wrote:
    > >
    > > > The Javelin IDE compiles the program into compressed byte codes. An
    > > > on-stamp interpreter then uses the byte-code program to run. -Martin
    > > > Hebel
    > >
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