Green as Grass Robotics Teacher - PLEASE Help

Archiver

Hello Folks,

I am a grade 12 industrial education teacher who has been lucky enough
to initiate an introductory course in robotics. If my students were to
be compared to the grass seed , I would most likely be the fertilizer.
As a group we find this a very interesting area of study, unfortunatly
our combined expertize in this area is more than sadly lacking. To
this end I would be grateful to any members who could offer any advise
that would be useful to the novice novice.

I was an electrician for 20 years before I began teaching so I have a
working knowledge in that field. Originally the course was in
microelectronics. As a class we discussed the possibility of expanding
our horizons to the field of robotics. The class was excited about
this prospect, largely due to the influence of all the current TV
programs featuring battling robots. I felt that this was an excellent
chance to strike while the iron was hot and use this trend to help
motivate my students.

We have challanged a local school to a SumoBot match. Knowing nothing
about robots I am now at the point where I have ordered SumoBot kits
to help us understand at least some points of construction, along with
a few texts, and some low voltage DC motors. The kids have brought in
there remote controlled cars, and various odds and sods. While
speaking to one of my suppliers, he reccommended I try the Parralax
site. I found this to be the most comprehensive site I have yet to
visit. I am currently thinking of ordering the following, Build your
own Combat Robot, Board of Education, Whats a Microcontroller parts
and text, Robotics Parts and Text, and was wondering the wisdom of my
choices.

If there is anyone who could offer advice as to where a RANK beginner
could go for enlightment, my class and I would be very grateful. We
have a limited budget and are more in the search and scrounge arena
than anywhere else. Please remember (for all my American cousins)
searching, scrounging, and purchasing is all increased by 60% thanks
to the wonderful world of international monetary ka-ka.

Thanking You in Advance for any suggestions.
Sincerly,
George Kierstead

Archiver

A few years back I taught 3 robotics classes that were somewhat younger
than your students (plus I do classes on programming for adults, but
that's another matter).

Here is an exercise I found useful. Divide the students into two groups.
Have them elect a "robot" and a "CPU". Then as a team they develop a
"program" to complete some task. I'd usually have a few green plants in
the room so I'd have them design a watering robot. It starts at a home
base, navigates to each plant, discharges a certain amount of water, and
eventually returns home. What's more, if they were sharp I'd add little
things like, sensing if the plants needed water, etc. We had high school
helpers, so each team would get a "senior person" to advise them but
only in general terms.

Each team would get their program written down. I'd call time and then
we'd blindfold the robot and have the CPU read the directions to the
robot. The CPU has to read exactly what is written down and the robot
has to do exactly as told - no exceptions.

Before long, the robot would be in the wrong part of the room watering
the filing cabinet (don't use real water). This is great fun, but also
very instructive about how hard it is to make robots navigate, detect
objects, sense things, and the level of detail involved in programming.

The biggest problem I see with budding robot builders is overactive
imagination. When you ask the kids, "What do you want a robot to do?"
They will answer that they want it to mow the lawn, get the newspaper,
etc. All of these things are fantastically difficult. Not impossible,
but for a starting project, probably out of grasp.

It is very important to realize that most robots don't look like Data or
even R2D2. Most robots do one task, but they do it very well! The BoeBot
is very pleasant to work with -- we used it for 50% of our class work
(Lego Mindstorms were a requirement for the class so I had to use them
as well). In my mind, Pbasic is easy to learn and gives them a flavor
for what a real embedded designer would do (sort of). The Mindstorms
with its graphical interface is great for results, but I don't think it
gives the kids any idea how people like us really build embedded
systems.

There was a nice flash program at an educational site that let you
design robots for different tasks and would critique your choices. It
was very helpful also, but I can't seem to find the link. Ah... Here it
is ... http://www.tcm.org/html/galleries/robots/design/robot.html

Hope that helps!

Al Williams
AWC
* Easy RS-232 Prototyping
http://www.al-williams.com/awce/rs1.htm

>

---

Original Message

---

> From: gack982001 [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=nmrZkvATfBnmemFhznqMzQPIoKx1GFHVOfEe0hnpCytxjTu9yUaI_CzlHeWqtq9yaFRSsVCJu78xoA]georgek@n...[/url
> Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 6:24 PM
> To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Green as Grass Robotics Teacher - PLEASE Help
>
>
> Hello Folks,
>
> I am a grade 12 industrial education teacher who has been
> lucky enough
> to initiate an introductory course in robotics. If my
> students were to
> be compared to the grass seed , I would most likely be the
> fertilizer. As a group we find this a very interesting area
> of study, unfortunatly
> our combined expertize in this area is more than sadly lacking. To
> this end I would be grateful to any members who could offer
> any advise
> that would be useful to the novice novice.
>
> I was an electrician for 20 years before I began teaching so I have a
> working knowledge in that field. Originally the course was in
> microelectronics. As a class we discussed the possibility of
> expanding
> our horizons to the field of robotics. The class was excited about
> this prospect, largely due to the influence of all the current TV
> programs featuring battling robots. I felt that this was an excellent
> chance to strike while the iron was hot and use this trend to help
> motivate my students.
>
> We have challanged a local school to a SumoBot match. Knowing nothing
> about robots I am now at the point where I have ordered SumoBot kits
> to help us understand at least some points of construction,
> along with
> a few texts, and some low voltage DC motors. The kids have brought in
> there remote controlled cars, and various odds and sods. While
> speaking to one of my suppliers, he reccommended I try the Parralax
> site. I found this to be the most comprehensive site I have yet to
> visit. I am currently thinking of ordering the following, Build your
> own Combat Robot, Board of Education, Whats a Microcontroller parts
> and text, Robotics Parts and Text, and was wondering the wisdom of my
> choices.
>
> If there is anyone who could offer advice as to where a RANK beginner
> could go for enlightment, my class and I would be very grateful. We
> have a limited budget and are more in the search and scrounge arena
> than anywhere else. Please remember (for all my American cousins)
> searching, scrounging, and purchasing is all increased by 60% thanks
> to the wonderful world of international monetary ka-ka.
>
> Thanking You in Advance for any suggestions.
> Sincerly,
> George Kierstead
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
> Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Archiver

Hello George Kierstead;

I would start with some "StampWorks Full Kits" to learn about the Basic
Stamp Controllers instead of the
"Whets a Microcontroller Text and Parts", some "Board Of Education" for the
students to use along with some
"BS2-IC's". For your intermediate students I would get some "BOE-BOT Full Kits"
instead of the "Robotics Text and
Parts" As for your advanced students I would get the "Build your own Combat
Robot" book(s) and allow them to
design and come up with their own designs, they might want to use stepper motors
instead of servo modified
motors. Also look at the other book Parallax Inc. offers about the Basic Stamp
and get some of them. I have been
acquiring different parts, boards and kits from Parallax Inc. and have found
that even with my ElectroMechanical
background and experiences that the Basic Stamp has a lot to offer, but needs a
lot of time to learn all a Basic
Stamp can do. The texts are all download able in PDF format and do print out
well, but I found that it is cheaper
to order complete kits. Also give the www.stampsinclass.com web site a look and
ask some questions from some of
the students, teachers, and Parallax staff what they recommend.

Have Fun !!
Dale Fleischmann

gack982001 wrote:

> Hello Folks,
>
> I am a grade 12 industrial education teacher who has been lucky enough
> to initiate an introductory course in robotics. If my students were to
> be compared to the grass seed , I would most likely be the fertilizer.
> As a group we find this a very interesting area of study, unfortunatly
> our combined expertize in this area is more than sadly lacking. To
> this end I would be grateful to any members who could offer any advise
> that would be useful to the novice novice.
>
> I was an electrician for 20 years before I began teaching so I have a
> working knowledge in that field. Originally the course was in
> microelectronics. As a class we discussed the possibility of expanding
> our horizons to the field of robotics. The class was excited about
> this prospect, largely due to the influence of all the current TV
> programs featuring battling robots. I felt that this was an excellent
> chance to strike while the iron was hot and use this trend to help
> motivate my students.
>
> We have challanged a local school to a SumoBot match. Knowing nothing
> about robots I am now at the point where I have ordered SumoBot kits
> to help us understand at least some points of construction, along with
> a few texts, and some low voltage DC motors. The kids have brought in
> there remote controlled cars, and various odds and sods. While
> speaking to one of my suppliers, he reccommended I try the Parralax
> site. I found this to be the most comprehensive site I have yet to
> visit. I am currently thinking of ordering the following, Build your
> own Combat Robot, Board of Education, Whats a Microcontroller parts
> and text, Robotics Parts and Text, and was wondering the wisdom of my
> choices.
>
> If there is anyone who could offer advice as to where a RANK beginner
> could go for enlightment, my class and I would be very grateful. We
> have a limited budget and are more in the search and scrounge arena
> than anywhere else. Please remember (for all my American cousins)
> searching, scrounging, and purchasing is all increased by 60% thanks
> to the wonderful world of international monetary ka-ka.
>
> Thanking You in Advance for any suggestions.
> Sincerly,
> George Kierstead
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


[noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Archiver

Hi George Kierstead;

I am learning about the Basic Stamps to help in getting a job in robotics I
hope. The way I am going about it
is very expensive. I have read what Al Williams wrote and I agree on how to go
about teaching your students about
robotics, it seem to be a more cost effective way to teach robotics. I think I
will visit these sites and learn
more about robotics myself and save me some time and money in the process.

Having Fun !!
Dale Fleischmann

Al Williams wrote:

> A few years back I taught 3 robotics classes that were somewhat younger
> than your students (plus I do classes on programming for adults, but
> that's another matter).
>
> Here is an exercise I found useful. Divide the students into two groups.
> Have them elect a "robot" and a "CPU". Then as a team they develop a
> "program" to complete some task. I'd usually have a few green plants in
> the room so I'd have them design a watering robot. It starts at a home
> base, navigates to each plant, discharges a certain amount of water, and
> eventually returns home. What's more, if they were sharp I'd add little
> things like, sensing if the plants needed water, etc. We had high school
> helpers, so each team would get a "senior person" to advise them but
> only in general terms.
>
> Each team would get their program written down. I'd call time and then
> we'd blindfold the robot and have the CPU read the directions to the
> robot. The CPU has to read exactly what is written down and the robot
> has to do exactly as told - no exceptions.
>
> Before long, the robot would be in the wrong part of the room watering
> the filing cabinet (don't use real water). This is great fun, but also
> very instructive about how hard it is to make robots navigate, detect
> objects, sense things, and the level of detail involved in programming.
>
> The biggest problem I see with budding robot builders is overactive
> imagination. When you ask the kids, "What do you want a robot to do?"
> They will answer that they want it to mow the lawn, get the newspaper,
> etc. All of these things are fantastically difficult. Not impossible,
> but for a starting project, probably out of grasp.
>
> It is very important to realize that most robots don't look like Data or
> even R2D2. Most robots do one task, but they do it very well! The BoeBot
> is very pleasant to work with -- we used it for 50% of our class work
> (Lego Mindstorms were a requirement for the class so I had to use them
> as well). In my mind, Pbasic is easy to learn and gives them a flavor
> for what a real embedded designer would do (sort of). The Mindstorms
> with its graphical interface is great for results, but I don't think it
> gives the kids any idea how people like us really build embedded
> systems.
>
> There was a nice flash program at an educational site that let you
> design robots for different tasks and would critique your choices. It
> was very helpful also, but I can't seem to find the link. Ah... Here it
> is ... http://www.tcm.org/html/galleries/robots/design/robot.html
>
> Hope that helps!
>
> Al Williams
> AWC
> * Easy RS-232 Prototyping
> http://www.al-williams.com/awce/rs1.htm
>
> >

---

Original Message

---

> > From: gack982001 [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=L9YHU46M5GQ2qTQHYsR5-sp86fQ1l9yf3sQEfo9S35kKxzW6NdtHGd_m2lIhmsZGSepOf2HfxVIwFzs]georgek@n...[/url
> > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 6:24 PM
> > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Green as Grass Robotics Teacher - PLEASE Help
> >
> >
> > Hello Folks,
> >
> > I am a grade 12 industrial education teacher who has been
> > lucky enough
> > to initiate an introductory course in robotics. If my
> > students were to
> > be compared to the grass seed , I would most likely be the
> > fertilizer. As a group we find this a very interesting area
> > of study, unfortunatly
> > our combined expertize in this area is more than sadly lacking. To
> > this end I would be grateful to any members who could offer
> > any advise
> > that would be useful to the novice novice.
> >
> > I was an electrician for 20 years before I began teaching so I have a
> > working knowledge in that field. Originally the course was in
> > microelectronics. As a class we discussed the possibility of
> > expanding
> > our horizons to the field of robotics. The class was excited about
> > this prospect, largely due to the influence of all the current TV
> > programs featuring battling robots. I felt that this was an excellent
> > chance to strike while the iron was hot and use this trend to help
> > motivate my students.
> >
> > We have challanged a local school to a SumoBot match. Knowing nothing
> > about robots I am now at the point where I have ordered SumoBot kits
> > to help us understand at least some points of construction,
> > along with
> > a few texts, and some low voltage DC motors. The kids have brought in
> > there remote controlled cars, and various odds and sods. While
> > speaking to one of my suppliers, he reccommended I try the Parralax
> > site. I found this to be the most comprehensive site I have yet to
> > visit. I am currently thinking of ordering the following, Build your
> > own Combat Robot, Board of Education, Whats a Microcontroller parts
> > and text, Robotics Parts and Text, and was wondering the wisdom of my
> > choices.
> >
> > If there is anyone who could offer advice as to where a RANK beginner
> > could go for enlightment, my class and I would be very grateful. We
> > have a limited budget and are more in the search and scrounge arena
> > than anywhere else. Please remember (for all my American cousins)
> > searching, scrounging, and purchasing is all increased by 60% thanks
> > to the wonderful world of international monetary ka-ka.
> >
> > Thanking You in Advance for any suggestions.
> > Sincerly,
> > George Kierstead
> >
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
> > Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Archiver

Don't get me wrong... I still think letting them move on to a Boe Bot is
a great idea. These are just some ideas to get started with...

Al Williams
AWC
* Floating point math for the Stamp, PIC, SX, or any microcontroller
http://www.al-williams.com/awce/pak1.htm



>

---

Original Message

---

> From: Dale Fleischmann [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=ub4AuWeGI0RyP5plVFv5aUyFN6VewDdzlACS1wsvk6UqW--cphpC-ogJ0TUychxcOoejECYg6ItS1ZbLPs0]fleidale@c...[/url
> Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 10:57 PM
> To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Green as Grass Robotics Teacher -
> PLEASE Help
>
>
> Hi George Kierstead;
>
> I am learning about the Basic Stamps to help in getting a
> job in robotics I hope. The way I am going about it is very
> expensive. I have read what Al Williams wrote and I agree on
> how to go about teaching your students about robotics, it
> seem to be a more cost effective way to teach robotics. I
> think I will visit these sites and learn more about robotics
> myself and save me some time and money in the process.
>
> Having Fun !!
> Dale Fleischmann
>
> Al Williams wrote:
>
> > A few years back I taught 3 robotics classes that were somewhat
> > younger than your students (plus I do classes on programming for
> > adults, but that's another matter).
> >
> > Here is an exercise I found useful. Divide the students into two
> > groups. Have them elect a "robot" and a "CPU". Then as a team they
> > develop a "program" to complete some task. I'd usually have a few
> > green plants in the room so I'd have them design a watering
> robot. It
> > starts at a home base, navigates to each plant, discharges
> a certain
> > amount of water, and eventually returns home. What's more, if they
> > were sharp I'd add little things like, sensing if the plants needed
> > water, etc. We had high school helpers, so each team would get a
> > "senior person" to advise them but only in general terms.
> >
> > Each team would get their program written down. I'd call
> time and then
> > we'd blindfold the robot and have the CPU read the
> directions to the
> > robot. The CPU has to read exactly what is written down and
> the robot
> > has to do exactly as told - no exceptions.
> >
> > Before long, the robot would be in the wrong part of the
> room watering
> > the filing cabinet (don't use real water). This is great
> fun, but also
> > very instructive about how hard it is to make robots
> navigate, detect
> > objects, sense things, and the level of detail involved in
> > programming.
> >
> > The biggest problem I see with budding robot builders is overactive
> > imagination. When you ask the kids, "What do you want a
> robot to do?"
> > They will answer that they want it to mow the lawn, get the
> newspaper,
> > etc. All of these things are fantastically difficult. Not
> impossible,
> > but for a starting project, probably out of grasp.
> >
> > It is very important to realize that most robots don't look
> like Data
> > or even R2D2. Most robots do one task, but they do it very
> well! The
> > BoeBot is very pleasant to work with -- we used it for 50% of our
> > class work (Lego Mindstorms were a requirement for the
> class so I had
> > to use them as well). In my mind, Pbasic is easy to learn and gives
> > them a flavor for what a real embedded designer would do (sort of).
> > The Mindstorms with its graphical interface is great for
> results, but
> > I don't think it gives the kids any idea how people like us really
> > build embedded systems.
> >
> > There was a nice flash program at an educational site that let you
> > design robots for different tasks and would critique your
> choices. It
> > was very helpful also, but I can't seem to find the link.
> Ah... Here
> > it is ... http://www.tcm.org/html/galleries/robots/design/robot.html
> >
> > Hope that helps!
> >
> > Al Williams
> > AWC
> > * Easy RS-232 Prototyping http://www.al-williams.com/awce/rs1.htm
> >
> > >

---

Original Message

---

> > > From: gack982001 [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=ZWxit1i40iBKhrrrEaUvLK23paMbDmGF_2qMpX8RQDOqvqefviNX91RF1QvfCRjxE4EMsnHw4_ViBlGf]georgek@n...[/url
> > > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 6:24 PM
> > > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Green as Grass Robotics Teacher -
> PLEASE Help
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello Folks,
> > >
> > > I am a grade 12 industrial education teacher who has been lucky
> > > enough to initiate an introductory course in robotics. If my
> > > students were to
> > > be compared to the grass seed , I would most likely be the
> > > fertilizer. As a group we find this a very interesting area
> > > of study, unfortunatly
> > > our combined expertize in this area is more than sadly lacking. To
> > > this end I would be grateful to any members who could offer
> > > any advise
> > > that would be useful to the novice novice.
> > >
> > > I was an electrician for 20 years before I began teaching
> so I have
> > > a working knowledge in that field. Originally the course was in
> > > microelectronics. As a class we discussed the possibility of
> > > expanding our horizons to the field of robotics. The class was
> > > excited about this prospect, largely due to the influence
> of all the
> > > current TV programs featuring battling robots. I felt
> that this was
> > > an excellent chance to strike while the iron was hot and use this
> > > trend to help motivate my students.
> > >
> > > We have challanged a local school to a SumoBot match. Knowing
> > > nothing about robots I am now at the point where I have ordered
> > > SumoBot kits to help us understand at least some points of
> > > construction, along with a few texts, and some low voltage DC
> > > motors. The kids have brought in there remote controlled
> cars, and
> > > various odds and sods. While speaking to one of my suppliers, he
> > > reccommended I try the Parralax site. I found this to be the most
> > > comprehensive site I have yet to visit. I am currently
> thinking of
> > > ordering the following, Build your own Combat Robot, Board of
> > > Education, Whats a Microcontroller parts and text, Robotics Parts
> > > and Text, and was wondering the wisdom of my choices.
> > >
> > > If there is anyone who could offer advice as to where a RANK
> > > beginner could go for enlightment, my class and I would be very
> > > grateful. We have a limited budget and are more in the search and
> > > scrounge arena than anywhere else. Please remember (for all my
> > > American cousins) searching, scrounging, and purchasing is all
> > > increased by 60% thanks to the wonderful world of international
> > > monetary ka-ka.
> > >
> > > Thanking You in Advance for any suggestions.
> > > Sincerly,
> > > George Kierstead
> > >
> > >
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
> > > Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in
> the Subject
> > and Body of the message will be ignored.
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
> Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Archiver

>Each team would get their program written down. I'd call time and then
>we'd blindfold the robot and have the CPU read the directions to the
>robot. The CPU has to read exactly what is written down and the robot
>has to do exactly as told - no exceptions.

Brilliant!