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Crosstalk Driving Servos? — Parallax Forums

Crosstalk Driving Servos?

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2002-03-12 06:29 in General Discussion
I'm having what I think are some crosstalk/isolation problems. This is
probably something simple, but I can't see it...

I've breadboarded my circuit with a BS2. It's driving servos from outputs
0, 1, and 2, LED's on outputs 4, 5, and 7, and a trigger for a separate
speech board on output 6 (triggered low). The breadboard and speech board
share grounds, but not power.

After I trigger the speech board to start talking, if I then move a servo
the sound will turn to static.

It also seems that I can't move the servos as fast as I want. A friend is
using the same servos and uses a PAUSE 10 after each movement. The best I
can do is PAUSE 25 or weird things start to happen. The servo will stop
before finishing it's set of movements.

And if I try to run two servos at the same time they'll both start fine and
then one of them will go into the weeds.

I tried using a 1uF cap between power and ground where the servos connect to
the breadboard. That didn't help.

I've disconnected the servos altogether, and just tried triggering the sound
chip. It's fine. If I tell the stamp2 to start moving a servo while the
speech is still going though, I still get static (this is without any servos
connected to the board). So it's not the servo, it's something in the
breadboard. Do I need a cap between power and ground at the stamp?

Thanks!
Bob Pony

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-03-10 18:36
    Hi Bob,

    Two standard sanity checks:

    1. Are you using separate regulation for the servos and or the speech board?
    I'd recommend separate regulation for both, with plenty of decoupling
    capacitors.

    2. How is your grounding between modules- is it short but fat enough enough
    to carry the current for the servos?

    regards,

    Tony Wells

    Original Message
    From: "Poniatowski Bob" <bobpony@m...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 5:00 PM
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Crosstalk Driving Servos?


    > I'm having what I think are some crosstalk/isolation problems. This is
    > probably something simple, but I can't see it...
    >
    > I've breadboarded my circuit with a BS2. It's driving servos from outputs
    > 0, 1, and 2, LED's on outputs 4, 5, and 7, and a trigger for a separate
    > speech board on output 6 (triggered low). The breadboard and speech board
    > share grounds, but not power.
    >
    > After I trigger the speech board to start talking, if I then move a servo
    > the sound will turn to static.
    >
    > It also seems that I can't move the servos as fast as I want. A friend is
    > using the same servos and uses a PAUSE 10 after each movement. The best I
    > can do is PAUSE 25 or weird things start to happen. The servo will stop
    > before finishing it's set of movements.
    >
    > And if I try to run two servos at the same time they'll both start fine
    and
    > then one of them will go into the weeds.
    >
    > I tried using a 1uF cap between power and ground where the servos connect
    to
    > the breadboard. That didn't help.
    >
    > I've disconnected the servos altogether, and just tried triggering the
    sound
    > chip. It's fine. If I tell the stamp2 to start moving a servo while the
    > speech is still going though, I still get static (this is without any
    servos
    > connected to the board). So it's not the servo, it's something in the
    > breadboard. Do I need a cap between power and ground at the stamp?
    >
    > Thanks!
    > Bob Pony
    >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-03-10 19:29
    Thanks Tony.

    The speech board is the guts of one of those recordable greeting cards.
    It's got it's own battery, so the power for it is separate (I'm running from
    the battery).

    I'm using an alligator clip lead to connect the ground of the speech board
    to the stamp breadboard. So it's not short and fat, but then the servos
    aren't running from the speech board. They're connected directly to the
    power/ground bus of the breadboard.

    Bob
    Original Message
    From: <tony.wells@a...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 10:36 AM
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Crosstalk Driving Servos?


    > Hi Bob,
    >
    > Two standard sanity checks:
    >
    > 1. Are you using separate regulation for the servos and or the speech
    board?
    > I'd recommend separate regulation for both, with plenty of decoupling
    > capacitors.
    >
    > 2. How is your grounding between modules- is it short but fat enough
    enough
    > to carry the current for the servos?
    >
    > regards,
    >
    > Tony Wells
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: "Poniatowski Bob" <bobpony@m...>
    > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 5:00 PM
    > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Crosstalk Driving Servos?
    >
    >
    > > I'm having what I think are some crosstalk/isolation problems. This is
    > > probably something simple, but I can't see it...
    > >
    > > I've breadboarded my circuit with a BS2. It's driving servos from
    outputs
    > > 0, 1, and 2, LED's on outputs 4, 5, and 7, and a trigger for a separate
    > > speech board on output 6 (triggered low). The breadboard and speech
    board
    > > share grounds, but not power.
    > >
    > > After I trigger the speech board to start talking, if I then move a
    servo
    > > the sound will turn to static.
    > >
    > > It also seems that I can't move the servos as fast as I want. A friend
    is
    > > using the same servos and uses a PAUSE 10 after each movement. The best
    I
    > > can do is PAUSE 25 or weird things start to happen. The servo will stop
    > > before finishing it's set of movements.
    > >
    > > And if I try to run two servos at the same time they'll both start fine
    > and
    > > then one of them will go into the weeds.
    > >
    > > I tried using a 1uF cap between power and ground where the servos
    connect
    > to
    > > the breadboard. That didn't help.
    > >
    > > I've disconnected the servos altogether, and just tried triggering the
    > sound
    > > chip. It's fine. If I tell the stamp2 to start moving a servo while
    the
    > > speech is still going though, I still get static (this is without any
    > servos
    > > connected to the board). So it's not the servo, it's something in the
    > > breadboard. Do I need a cap between power and ground at the stamp?
    > >
    > > Thanks!
    > > Bob Pony
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
    and
    > Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-03-10 23:01
    Hi Bob,

    A crocodile clip might *just* be too high a resistance. Short lengths of
    ordinary power cord wire is probably the sort of cable for a good low
    resistance ground. How are the units powered?

    T
    Original Message
    From: "Poniatowski Bob" <bobpony@m...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 7:29 PM
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Crosstalk Driving Servos?


    > Thanks Tony.
    >
    > The speech board is the guts of one of those recordable greeting cards.
    > It's got it's own battery, so the power for it is separate (I'm running
    from
    > the battery).
    >
    > I'm using an alligator clip lead to connect the ground of the speech board
    > to the stamp breadboard. So it's not short and fat, but then the servos
    > aren't running from the speech board. They're connected directly to the
    > power/ground bus of the breadboard.
    >
    > Bob
    >
    Original Message
    > From: <tony.wells@a...>
    > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 10:36 AM
    > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Crosstalk Driving Servos?
    >
    >
    > > Hi Bob,
    > >
    > > Two standard sanity checks:
    > >
    > > 1. Are you using separate regulation for the servos and or the speech
    > board?
    > > I'd recommend separate regulation for both, with plenty of decoupling
    > > capacitors.
    > >
    > > 2. How is your grounding between modules- is it short but fat enough
    > enough
    > > to carry the current for the servos?
    > >
    > > regards,
    > >
    > > Tony Wells
    > >
    > >
    Original Message
    > > From: "Poniatowski Bob" <bobpony@m...>
    > > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > > Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 5:00 PM
    > > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Crosstalk Driving Servos?
    > >
    > >
    > > > I'm having what I think are some crosstalk/isolation problems. This
    is
    > > > probably something simple, but I can't see it...
    > > >
    > > > I've breadboarded my circuit with a BS2. It's driving servos from
    > outputs
    > > > 0, 1, and 2, LED's on outputs 4, 5, and 7, and a trigger for a separat
    e
    > > > speech board on output 6 (triggered low). The breadboard and speech
    > board
    > > > share grounds, but not power.
    > > >
    > > > After I trigger the speech board to start talking, if I then move a
    > servo
    > > > the sound will turn to static.
    > > >
    > > > It also seems that I can't move the servos as fast as I want. A
    friend
    > is
    > > > using the same servos and uses a PAUSE 10 after each movement. The
    best
    > I
    > > > can do is PAUSE 25 or weird things start to happen. The servo will
    stop
    > > > before finishing it's set of movements.
    > > >
    > > > And if I try to run two servos at the same time they'll both start
    fine
    > > and
    > > > then one of them will go into the weeds.
    > > >
    > > > I tried using a 1uF cap between power and ground where the servos
    > connect
    > > to
    > > > the breadboard. That didn't help.
    > > >
    > > > I've disconnected the servos altogether, and just tried triggering the
    > > sound
    > > > chip. It's fine. If I tell the stamp2 to start moving a servo while
    > the
    > > > speech is still going though, I still get static (this is without any
    > > servos
    > > > connected to the board). So it's not the servo, it's something in the
    > > > breadboard. Do I need a cap between power and ground at the stamp?
    > > >
    > > > Thanks!
    > > > Bob Pony
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
    > and
    > > Body of the message will be ignored.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
    and
    > Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
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    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-03-10 23:31
    If you are using the Radio Shack alligator clip leads, they are notorious
    for failing where the wire is crimped into the metal clip -- cut, strip and
    solder to fix.

    Original Message

    > A crocodile clip might *just* be too high a resistance. Short lengths of
    > ordinary power cord wire is probably the sort of cable for a good low
    > resistance ground. How are the units powered?

    > > The speech board is the guts of one of those recordable greeting cards.
    > > It's got it's own battery, so the power for it is separate (I'm running
    > from
    > > the battery).
    > >
    > > I'm using an alligator clip lead to connect the ground of the speech
    board
    > > to the stamp breadboard. So it's not short and fat, but then the servos
    > > aren't running from the speech board. They're connected directly to the
    > > power/ground bus of the breadboard.
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-03-11 03:13
    Thanks, I'll try a short bit of wire instead of the alligator lead wire.

    I'm not sure the ground to the sound card is the issue though, because the
    servos seem to interfere with each other as well, even with the sound card
    completely removed. I'm running three servos now, and I've had to add a bit
    more pause time after moving each one of them so that they don't all go
    crazy.

    They all still go crazy when I first power everything up. I have to
    disconnect the control lead from the breadboard for two of the three servos
    (any two), and then plug them back in, before the three servos will calm
    down. Otherwise they get the jitters...all three sit there and jitter back
    and forth just a tiny bit. I tried putting a pause into my program right up
    front, figuring maybe they just needed a bit of time to settle before I
    centered them and started the program. They still start jittering right
    away, but the weird thing is that the speed of the jitter is related to the
    length of this first pause statement. If I make that first pause statement
    longer, the servos jitter becomes slower. But they're still uncontrollable
    until I briefly disconnect two of them. Once I've done that everything
    works fine.

    I did realize that earlier when they occasionally went off into the weeds it
    was when one of them was always near their maximum rotation. I backed this
    off a bit (by 25) and haven't had them go out of control since.

    But in order to make them work without stomping on eachother I've had to
    make them soooooo sloooooowwwwww. And take the sound trigger out! This
    can't be right. I'm missing something obvious.

    Everything is built on a Jameco JE25 breadboard, part of the kit I bought
    from Peter Anderson (good kit by the way). The power for the breadboard is
    from a 9V, 250mA wall transformer feeding a 7805 regulator to produce 5V.
    Is it possible that the 250mA is enough to run the servos in steady state,
    but the inrush when they turn on is pulling everything low and causing a
    reset to happen over and over and over? The 250mA wall wort was the only
    one sitting around here. Peter's kit normally ships with a 1A wall wort,
    mine was missing in the shipment.

    This is my first time experimenting with stamps, it's been years since I
    built breadboarded anything. So my rust is probably showing. This has got
    to be something dead simple I'm doing wrong. I just can't see it yet. [noparse];)[/noparse]

    Thanks again,
    Bob

    Original Message
    From: <tony.wells@a...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 3:01 PM
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Crosstalk Driving Servos?


    > Hi Bob,
    >
    > A crocodile clip might *just* be too high a resistance. Short lengths of
    > ordinary power cord wire is probably the sort of cable for a good low
    > resistance ground. How are the units powered?
    >
    > T
    >
    Original Message
    > From: "Poniatowski Bob" <bobpony@m...>
    > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 7:29 PM
    > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Crosstalk Driving Servos?
    >
    >
    > > Thanks Tony.
    > >
    > > The speech board is the guts of one of those recordable greeting cards.
    > > It's got it's own battery, so the power for it is separate (I'm running
    > from
    > > the battery).
    > >
    > > I'm using an alligator clip lead to connect the ground of the speech
    board
    > > to the stamp breadboard. So it's not short and fat, but then the servos
    > > aren't running from the speech board. They're connected directly to the
    > > power/ground bus of the breadboard.
    > >
    > > Bob
    > >
    Original Message
    > > From: <tony.wells@a...>
    > > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > > Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 10:36 AM
    > > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Crosstalk Driving Servos?
    > >
    > >
    > > > Hi Bob,
    > > >
    > > > Two standard sanity checks:
    > > >
    > > > 1. Are you using separate regulation for the servos and or the speech
    > > board?
    > > > I'd recommend separate regulation for both, with plenty of decoupling
    > > > capacitors.
    > > >
    > > > 2. How is your grounding between modules- is it short but fat enough
    > > enough
    > > > to carry the current for the servos?
    > > >
    > > > regards,
    > > >
    > > > Tony Wells
    > > >
    > > >
    Original Message
    > > > From: "Poniatowski Bob" <bobpony@m...>
    > > > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > > > Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 5:00 PM
    > > > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Crosstalk Driving Servos?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > > I'm having what I think are some crosstalk/isolation problems. This
    > is
    > > > > probably something simple, but I can't see it...
    > > > >
    > > > > I've breadboarded my circuit with a BS2. It's driving servos from
    > > outputs
    > > > > 0, 1, and 2, LED's on outputs 4, 5, and 7, and a trigger for a
    separat
    > e
    > > > > speech board on output 6 (triggered low). The breadboard and speech
    > > board
    > > > > share grounds, but not power.
    > > > >
    > > > > After I trigger the speech board to start talking, if I then move a
    > > servo
    > > > > the sound will turn to static.
    > > > >
    > > > > It also seems that I can't move the servos as fast as I want. A
    > friend
    > > is
    > > > > using the same servos and uses a PAUSE 10 after each movement. The
    > best
    > > I
    > > > > can do is PAUSE 25 or weird things start to happen. The servo will
    > stop
    > > > > before finishing it's set of movements.
    > > > >
    > > > > And if I try to run two servos at the same time they'll both start
    > fine
    > > > and
    > > > > then one of them will go into the weeds.
    > > > >
    > > > > I tried using a 1uF cap between power and ground where the servos
    > > connect
    > > > to
    > > > > the breadboard. That didn't help.
    > > > >
    > > > > I've disconnected the servos altogether, and just tried triggering
    the
    > > > sound
    > > > > chip. It's fine. If I tell the stamp2 to start moving a servo
    while
    > > the
    > > > > speech is still going though, I still get static (this is without
    any
    > > > servos
    > > > > connected to the board). So it's not the servo, it's something in
    the
    > > > > breadboard. Do I need a cap between power and ground at the stamp?
    > > > >
    > > > > Thanks!
    > > > > Bob Pony
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
    Subject
    > > and
    > > > Body of the message will be ignored.
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
    > and
    > > Body of the message will be ignored.
    > > >
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    > >
    >
    >
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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-03-11 03:58
    I really think at least part of what I'm seeing is the stamp resetting if I
    move a servo to far too fast. At least that seems to be part of the
    problem.

    In the last email (sorry for the diatribe this is becoming, I appreciate the
    help) I thought that maybe having all three servos start up at once was
    pulling the power supply low and resetting the stamp.

    So I put a couple of 22uF caps between power and ground at the stamp. When
    I powered the board up, all three servos still jitter, but only for a couple
    of seconds. Then they center up as they're supposed to and act fine. My
    theory is that the couple of seconds is the time it takes for the caps to
    get enough charge to keep the stamp powered even when the three servos pull
    the power supply low. Once that inrush is past, everything moves along
    normally.

    Now I've got another part of the routine where I'm only moving a single
    servo. But it moves much faster than when I'm moving all three at once. I
    tried that part of the program and it also seems to be causing a reset.
    It'll stick (usually after a very quick and large movement/swing of the
    single servo) and then all three servos will jitter for a moment. Then the
    program appears to start from the top.

    So I'm thinking I've got too weak a supply for running three servos (the
    servos are Hitech 300's). The wall wort is 9V, 250mA. It's regulated
    through a 7805.

    Just sending all of this out in hopes that it makes sense to someone.

    Thanks,
    Bob

    Original Message
    From: Poniatowski Bob <bobpony@m...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 7:13 PM
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Crosstalk Driving Servos?


    > Thanks, I'll try a short bit of wire instead of the alligator lead wire.
    >
    > I'm not sure the ground to the sound card is the issue though, because the
    > servos seem to interfere with each other as well, even with the sound card
    > completely removed. I'm running three servos now, and I've had to add a
    bit
    > more pause time after moving each one of them so that they don't all go
    > crazy.
    >
    > They all still go crazy when I first power everything up. I have to
    > disconnect the control lead from the breadboard for two of the three
    servos
    > (any two), and then plug them back in, before the three servos will calm
    > down. Otherwise they get the jitters...all three sit there and jitter
    back
    > and forth just a tiny bit. I tried putting a pause into my program right
    up
    > front, figuring maybe they just needed a bit of time to settle before I
    > centered them and started the program. They still start jittering right
    > away, but the weird thing is that the speed of the jitter is related to
    the
    > length of this first pause statement. If I make that first pause
    statement
    > longer, the servos jitter becomes slower. But they're still
    uncontrollable
    > until I briefly disconnect two of them. Once I've done that everything
    > works fine.
    >
    > I did realize that earlier when they occasionally went off into the weeds
    it
    > was when one of them was always near their maximum rotation. I backed
    this
    > off a bit (by 25) and haven't had them go out of control since.
    >
    > But in order to make them work without stomping on eachother I've had to
    > make them soooooo sloooooowwwwww. And take the sound trigger out! This
    > can't be right. I'm missing something obvious.
    >
    > Everything is built on a Jameco JE25 breadboard, part of the kit I bought
    > from Peter Anderson (good kit by the way). The power for the breadboard
    is
    > from a 9V, 250mA wall transformer feeding a 7805 regulator to produce 5V.
    > Is it possible that the 250mA is enough to run the servos in steady state,
    > but the inrush when they turn on is pulling everything low and causing a
    > reset to happen over and over and over? The 250mA wall wort was the only
    > one sitting around here. Peter's kit normally ships with a 1A wall wort,
    > mine was missing in the shipment.
    >
    > This is my first time experimenting with stamps, it's been years since I
    > built breadboarded anything. So my rust is probably showing. This has
    got
    > to be something dead simple I'm doing wrong. I just can't see it yet. [noparse];)[/noparse]
    >
    > Thanks again,
    > Bob
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: <tony.wells@a...>
    > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 3:01 PM
    > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Crosstalk Driving Servos?
    >
    >
    > > Hi Bob,
    > >
    > > A crocodile clip might *just* be too high a resistance. Short lengths of
    > > ordinary power cord wire is probably the sort of cable for a good low
    > > resistance ground. How are the units powered?
    > >
    > > T
    > >
    Original Message
    > > From: "Poniatowski Bob" <bobpony@m...>
    > > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > > Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 7:29 PM
    > > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Crosstalk Driving Servos?
    > >
    > >
    > > > Thanks Tony.
    > > >
    > > > The speech board is the guts of one of those recordable greeting
    cards.
    > > > It's got it's own battery, so the power for it is separate (I'm
    running
    > > from
    > > > the battery).
    > > >
    > > > I'm using an alligator clip lead to connect the ground of the speech
    > board
    > > > to the stamp breadboard. So it's not short and fat, but then the
    servos
    > > > aren't running from the speech board. They're connected directly to
    the
    > > > power/ground bus of the breadboard.
    > > >
    > > > Bob
    > > >
    Original Message
    > > > From: <tony.wells@a...>
    > > > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > > > Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 10:36 AM
    > > > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Crosstalk Driving Servos?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > > Hi Bob,
    > > > >
    > > > > Two standard sanity checks:
    > > > >
    > > > > 1. Are you using separate regulation for the servos and or the
    speech
    > > > board?
    > > > > I'd recommend separate regulation for both, with plenty of
    decoupling
    > > > > capacitors.
    > > > >
    > > > > 2. How is your grounding between modules- is it short but fat enough
    > > > enough
    > > > > to carry the current for the servos?
    > > > >
    > > > > regards,
    > > > >
    > > > > Tony Wells
    > > > >
    > > > >
    Original Message
    > > > > From: "Poniatowski Bob" <bobpony@m...>
    > > > > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > > > > Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 5:00 PM
    > > > > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Crosstalk Driving Servos?
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > > I'm having what I think are some crosstalk/isolation problems.
    This
    > > is
    > > > > > probably something simple, but I can't see it...
    > > > > >
    > > > > > I've breadboarded my circuit with a BS2. It's driving servos from
    > > > outputs
    > > > > > 0, 1, and 2, LED's on outputs 4, 5, and 7, and a trigger for a
    > separat
    > > e
    > > > > > speech board on output 6 (triggered low). The breadboard and
    speech
    > > > board
    > > > > > share grounds, but not power.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > After I trigger the speech board to start talking, if I then move
    a
    > > > servo
    > > > > > the sound will turn to static.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > It also seems that I can't move the servos as fast as I want. A
    > > friend
    > > > is
    > > > > > using the same servos and uses a PAUSE 10 after each movement.
    The
    > > best
    > > > I
    > > > > > can do is PAUSE 25 or weird things start to happen. The servo
    will
    > > stop
    > > > > > before finishing it's set of movements.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > And if I try to run two servos at the same time they'll both start
    > > fine
    > > > > and
    > > > > > then one of them will go into the weeds.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > I tried using a 1uF cap between power and ground where the servos
    > > > connect
    > > > > to
    > > > > > the breadboard. That didn't help.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > I've disconnected the servos altogether, and just tried triggering
    > the
    > > > > sound
    > > > > > chip. It's fine. If I tell the stamp2 to start moving a servo
    > while
    > > > the
    > > > > > speech is still going though, I still get static (this is without
    > any
    > > > > servos
    > > > > > connected to the board). So it's not the servo, it's something in
    > the
    > > > > > breadboard. Do I need a cap between power and ground at the
    stamp?
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Thanks!
    > > > > > Bob Pony
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > > > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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    > Subject
    > > > and
    > > > > Body of the message will be ignored.
    > > > > >
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    > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
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    > > and
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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-03-11 06:36
    > So I'm thinking I've got too weak a supply for running three servos (the
    > servos are Hitech 300's). The wall wort is 9V, 250mA. It's regulated
    > through a 7805.
    >
    Bob, you're right, the wimpy supply is probably the problem. I have
    measured current into 300-size servos at well over 1 amp when moving fast,
    or hauling a heavy load.

    Ray McArthur
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-03-11 09:53
    I realized this also in my Parallax BOE Robot, any suggestions for a
    solution?

    --- In basicstamps@y..., "Poniatowski Bob" <bobpony@m...> wrote:
    > I'm having what I think are some crosstalk/isolation problems.
    This is
    > probably something simple, but I can't see it...
    >
    > I've breadboarded my circuit with a BS2. It's driving servos from
    outputs
    > 0, 1, and 2, LED's on outputs 4, 5, and 7, and a trigger for a
    separate
    > speech board on output 6 (triggered low). The breadboard and
    speech board
    > share grounds, but not power.
    >
    > After I trigger the speech board to start talking, if I then move a
    servo
    > the sound will turn to static.
    >
    > It also seems that I can't move the servos as fast as I want. A
    friend is
    > using the same servos and uses a PAUSE 10 after each movement. The
    best I
    > can do is PAUSE 25 or weird things start to happen. The servo will
    stop
    > before finishing it's set of movements.
    >
    > And if I try to run two servos at the same time they'll both start
    fine and
    > then one of them will go into the weeds.
    >
    > I tried using a 1uF cap between power and ground where the servos
    connect to
    > the breadboard. That didn't help.
    >
    > I've disconnected the servos altogether, and just tried triggering
    the sound
    > chip. It's fine. If I tell the stamp2 to start moving a servo
    while the
    > speech is still going though, I still get static (this is without
    any servos
    > connected to the board). So it's not the servo, it's something in
    the
    > breadboard. Do I need a cap between power and ground at the stamp?
    >
    > Thanks!
    > Bob Pony
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-03-11 13:36
    One thing is the servos should have their own power separate from the Stamp
    board.
    The servos can pull in a lot of current, along with browbouts, surges, RFI
    and EMI noise interference.
    I use a 4 AA cell battery pack for the servos, with the regular 9 volt
    battery for the Stamp board. If your using Nicad's or NMH rechargeables, you
    should hook up a 5th AA battery cell for the servos. Rechargeable batteries
    are nice as they can provide a lot of current to prevent brownouts and
    surges, whereas the dry cells don't do as well. Only the ground wire is
    common to everything.
    I also put in .01 bypass caps to cut down on the RFI that is generated. I
    also run 1000ufd (works good) or 2200 mfd (works better) electrolytic caps
    to minimize the brownout current surge problems you can get when the servos
    kick in. The size of the caps depends on the sensitivity of the circuits.
    The other thing is overall wire length for the different signal/data I/O
    wires and such, you need to keep these as short as possible, so that they
    don't act as antennas and pick up additional interference.
    The servos can draw between 1 to 2 amperes of current when they stall or
    stall when they slam into the stops. Under load the servos can suck up
    current close to stall amounts. Sometimes when they jitter, they draw a lot
    of current too. Sometimes one servo starts to run, causing another servo to
    starve and flake out, setting of a cascade where all the servos flake out in
    turn. Then the brownout condition causes the MCU or servo controller to
    flake out.

    On the Stamp boards, be careful, the VIN line provides "unregulated: voltage
    to the servos, whereas the Stamp itself has a onboard 5 volt regulator.
    Plugging in a 9 volt AC adapter can provide over 12 volts at low loads to
    the servos. The problem is the I/O port line from the Stamp to the Servo
    signal wire. Some servos can present higher than 5 volts to the Stamp, and
    you could lose a I/O port pin, it it burns it out. Even the 6 volt AC
    adapters can provide 7-10 volts to the servos and Stamp. A 12 volt AC
    adapter may be feeding over 15 volts to the board.
    I'd suggest putting in a 6 volt voltage regulator on the Stamp board, if
    possible, and then run the output from the regulator to everything like
    normal.



    Original Message
    From: mysemicon2000 [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=J8JSVoNqiqOovoB8_ay7h-Y_DjYtKMemNDDF1w80D7Jd0m45GXT9FgcygvsuNLwLWmz2BksT-nFRz8aCFLKKxRHO0Xvc]semiconductor@p...[/url
    Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 3:54 AM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Crosstalk Driving Servos?


    I realized this also in my Parallax BOE Robot, any suggestions for a
    solution?

    --- In basicstamps@y..., "Poniatowski Bob" <bobpony@m...> wrote:
    > I'm having what I think are some crosstalk/isolation problems.
    This is
    > probably something simple, but I can't see it...
    >
    > I've breadboarded my circuit with a BS2. It's driving servos from
    outputs
    > 0, 1, and 2, LED's on outputs 4, 5, and 7, and a trigger for a
    separate
    > speech board on output 6 (triggered low). The breadboard and
    speech board
    > share grounds, but not power.
    >
    > After I trigger the speech board to start talking, if I then move a
    servo
    > the sound will turn to static.
    >
    > It also seems that I can't move the servos as fast as I want. A
    friend is
    > using the same servos and uses a PAUSE 10 after each movement. The
    best I
    > can do is PAUSE 25 or weird things start to happen. The servo will
    stop
    > before finishing it's set of movements.
    >
    > And if I try to run two servos at the same time they'll both start
    fine and
    > then one of them will go into the weeds.
    >
    > I tried using a 1uF cap between power and ground where the servos
    connect to
    > the breadboard. That didn't help.
    >
    > I've disconnected the servos altogether, and just tried triggering
    the sound
    > chip. It's fine. If I tell the stamp2 to start moving a servo
    while the
    > speech is still going though, I still get static (this is without
    any servos
    > connected to the board). So it's not the servo, it's something in
    the
    > breadboard. Do I need a cap between power and ground at the stamp?
    >
    > Thanks!
    > Bob Pony


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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-03-12 06:29
    I figured out my servo problem, but I've still got a sound problem.

    The problem was that the supply was just too weak for the three servos and
    the stamp. I dug out a power supply from an old PC and used that to drive
    everything. All three servos work great now, even at full speed. =)

    But...the servos are still stomping on the signals in my sound card. I've
    got a board that once was the guts of a recordable greeting card, and I'm
    using one of the stamp outputs to trigger that to play while the servos are
    running. As soon as the servo starts moving the sound turns to garbage.
    Actually, I've seen this happen even when the servos aren't connected to the
    breadboard. So it's something to do with the stamp driving one pin (where
    it thinks there's a servo) and that signal interfering with the pin that
    triggers the sound card.

    I've tried a very short lead from the stamp output to the sound board, as
    well as a very short ground between the two. Still have static whenever the
    stamp tries to move a servo.

    The sound card from the greeting card is triggered with a low, so I thought
    maybe I needed a pullup resistor on the stamp output (to keep the trigger
    from floating around when it's not being driven). Wrong, that didn't help
    either.

    I guess I haven't tried a very fat, very short ground between the greeting
    card board and the breadboard with the stamp/servos. That's next I guess.

    Any other ideas?

    Thanks,
    Bob

    Original Message
    From: Ray McArthur <rjmca@u...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 10:36 PM
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Crosstalk Driving Servos?


    > > So I'm thinking I've got too weak a supply for running three servos (the
    > > servos are Hitech 300's). The wall wort is 9V, 250mA. It's regulated
    > > through a 7805.
    > >
    > Bob, you're right, the wimpy supply is probably the problem. I have
    > measured current into 300-size servos at well over 1 amp when moving fast,
    > or hauling a heavy load.
    >
    > Ray McArthur
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
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