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Gas flow sensor. — Parallax Forums

Gas flow sensor.

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2002-01-11 13:14 in General Discussion
Hi all,
A little off topic, I know but....
I'm in need of a gas flow sensor capable of measuring about 10 to 30 litres
per minute of argon that can be interfaced to a Stamp or Pic. 0-10V, 4-20mA,
Frequency, PWM, whatever.
Anyone have any ideas?
Thanks alot!
/Henrik Olsson. Sweden.

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-01-07 20:52
    vent-captor
    from weber sensors inc measures air or gaseous media.

    web url www.captor.com
    email info@c...
    this sensor was in nuts & volts april 2001 issue, i havent looked at it
    myself other than the ad.

    norm



    >From: "Henrik Olsson" <henrik-olsson@t...>
    >Reply-To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    >To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    >Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Gas flow sensor.
    >Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 20:57:34 +0100
    >
    >Hi all,
    >A little off topic, I know but....
    >I'm in need of a gas flow sensor capable of measuring about 10 to 30 litres
    >per minute of argon that can be interfaced to a Stamp or Pic. 0-10V,
    >4-20mA,
    >Frequency, PWM, whatever.
    >Anyone have any ideas?
    >Thanks alot!
    > /Henrik Olsson. Sweden.
    >
    >
    >
    >To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    >Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >




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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-01-07 20:58
    At 08:57 PM 1/7/02 +0100, you wrote:
    >Hi all,
    >A little off topic, I know but....
    >I'm in need of a gas flow sensor capable of measuring about 10 to 30 litres
    >per minute of argon that can be interfaced to a Stamp or Pic. 0-10V, 4-20mA,
    >Frequency, PWM, whatever.
    >Anyone have any ideas?
    >Thanks alot!
    > /Henrik Olsson. Sweden.

    I don't know if this will give you any Ideas or not...

    Note: This will not work for liquid gases

    Several years ago (10+) I helped a friend of mine design a "gasflow generator"
    with no moving parts. This was basically setup like a transformer. A torrid
    coil for the primary (pulsed DC at about 15kHz) and the gas intake. The
    secondary
    coil was arranged similar to that of a solenoid with the gas flow through the
    center of the coil and allowed to escape at the other end. The primary to
    secondary
    ratio was about 1:5. Voltage and Frequency measured at the secondary was
    proportional to the rate of gas flow.


    Beau Schwabe Mask Designer IV - ATL
    National Semiconductor Wired Communications Division
    500 Pinnacle Court, Suite 525 Mail Stop GA1 Norcross, GA 30071
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-01-07 22:59
    Maybe an ultrasonic sensor pair. The idea seems to be that sound travels at a
    different rate upstream vs
    downstream. This site has products and an equation that might be useful. I
    have seen ultrasonic xmtr/receiver
    pairs in hobbiest catalogs, so they are not exotic.

    http://www.ultraranger.com/default.htm

    Best, Michael


    Henrik Olsson wrote:

    > Hi all,
    > A little off topic, I know but....
    > I'm in need of a gas flow sensor capable of measuring about 10 to 30 litres
    > per minute of argon that can be interfaced to a Stamp or Pic. 0-10V, 4-20mA,
    > Frequency, PWM, whatever.
    > Anyone have any ideas?
    > Thanks alot!
    > /Henrik Olsson. Sweden.
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
    of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-01-08 00:58
    --- In basicstamps@y..., "Henrik Olsson" <henrik-olsson@t...> wrote:
    > Hi all,
    > A little off topic, I know but....
    > I'm in need of a gas flow sensor capable of measuring about 10 to
    30 litres
    > per minute of argon that can be interfaced to a Stamp or Pic. 0-
    10V, 4-20mA,
    > Frequency, PWM, whatever.
    > Anyone have any ideas?
    > Thanks alot!
    > /Henrik Olsson. Sweden.


    Hi,

    I'm currently working on such a device for use in engine testing. If
    you need a start simply look for a small hotwire module being used in
    an automotive fuel injection application.

    The hotwires are typically temperature compensated and many output
    frequency as a signal. Some frequency will be zero flow and then it
    will increase as flow increases. The stamp math you decide to use
    will determine the gas flow accuracy and linearity, provided that you
    use a novel way to correlate the flow to an actual real volume/time
    number.

    If you need more help than this contact me at ronaldsa@e...

    Ron
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-01-08 01:25
    Do you know where these hot wire modules could be found?
    Thanks
    -Nick
    Original Message
    From: "wizard_80538" <ronaldsa@e...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 6:58 PM
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Gas flow sensor.


    > --- In basicstamps@y..., "Henrik Olsson" <henrik-olsson@t...> wrote:
    > > Hi all,
    > > A little off topic, I know but....
    > > I'm in need of a gas flow sensor capable of measuring about 10 to
    > 30 litres
    > > per minute of argon that can be interfaced to a Stamp or Pic. 0-
    > 10V, 4-20mA,
    > > Frequency, PWM, whatever.
    > > Anyone have any ideas?
    > > Thanks alot!
    > > /Henrik Olsson. Sweden.
    >
    >
    > Hi,
    >
    > I'm currently working on such a device for use in engine testing. If
    > you need a start simply look for a small hotwire module being used in
    > an automotive fuel injection application.
    >
    > The hotwires are typically temperature compensated and many output
    > frequency as a signal. Some frequency will be zero flow and then it
    > will increase as flow increases. The stamp math you decide to use
    > will determine the gas flow accuracy and linearity, provided that you
    > use a novel way to correlate the flow to an actual real volume/time
    > number.
    >
    > If you need more help than this contact me at ronaldsa@e...
    >
    > Ron
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >


    _________________________________________________________
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    Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-01-08 01:49
    Beau; You have made me curious. You mention a Toroid coil with a primary
    connected to 15khz pulsed source. A secondary coil like a solenoid and the
    volume of gas passing through the center of the solenoid can be measured by
    variation in frequency and amplitude. I am puzzled about the configuration
    description and the Physics about how this works. Measuring gas flow is not
    my field of knowledge but I would appreciate it if you would explain it to
    me or point me to some references that I may study on-line.
    Thanks, Steve
    Original Message
    From: "Beau Schwabe" <bschwabe@a...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 12:58 PM
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Gas flow sensor.


    > At 08:57 PM 1/7/02 +0100, you wrote:
    > >Hi all,
    > >A little off topic, I know but....
    > >I'm in need of a gas flow sensor capable of measuring about 10 to 30
    litres
    > >per minute of argon that can be interfaced to a Stamp or Pic. 0-10V,
    4-20mA,
    > >Frequency, PWM, whatever.
    > >Anyone have any ideas?
    > >Thanks alot!
    > > /Henrik Olsson. Sweden.
    >
    > I don't know if this will give you any Ideas or not...
    >
    > Note: This will not work for liquid gases
    >
    > Several years ago (10+) I helped a friend of mine design a "gasflow
    generator"
    > with no moving parts. This was basically setup like a transformer. A
    torrid
    > coil for the primary (pulsed DC at about 15kHz) and the gas intake. The
    > secondary
    > coil was arranged similar to that of a solenoid with the gas flow through
    the
    > center of the coil and allowed to escape at the other end. The primary to
    > secondary
    > ratio was about 1:5. Voltage and Frequency measured at the secondary was
    > proportional to the rate of gas flow.
    >
    >
    >
    > Beau Schwabe Mask Designer IV - ATL
    > National Semiconductor Wired Communications Division
    > 500 Pinnacle Court, Suite 525 Mail Stop GA1 Norcross, GA 30071
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-01-08 15:16
    e-bay mass flow sensor-automotive

    or visit your local junk yard or repair shop.
    you may be able ot hack a discarded one from
    the repair shop easily.

    Dave


    --- In basicstamps@y..., "Nick H" <lightclb@y...> wrote:
    > Do you know where these hot wire modules could be found?
    > Thanks
    > -Nick
    >
    Original Message
    > From: "wizard_80538" <ronaldsa@e...>
    > To: <basicstamps@y...>
    > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 6:58 PM
    > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Gas flow sensor.
    >
    >
    > > --- In basicstamps@y..., "Henrik Olsson" <henrik-olsson@t...>
    wrote:
    > > > Hi all,
    > > > A little off topic, I know but....
    > > > I'm in need of a gas flow sensor capable of measuring about 10
    to
    > > 30 litres
    > > > per minute of argon that can be interfaced to a Stamp or Pic. 0-
    > > 10V, 4-20mA,
    > > > Frequency, PWM, whatever.
    > > > Anyone have any ideas?
    > > > Thanks alot!
    > > > /Henrik Olsson. Sweden.
    > >
    > >
    > > Hi,
    > >
    > > I'm currently working on such a device for use in engine testing.
    If
    > > you need a start simply look for a small hotwire module being
    used in
    > > an automotive fuel injection application.
    > >
    > > The hotwires are typically temperature compensated and many output
    > > frequency as a signal. Some frequency will be zero flow and then
    it
    > > will increase as flow increases. The stamp math you decide to use
    > > will determine the gas flow accuracy and linearity, provided that
    you
    > > use a novel way to correlate the flow to an actual real
    volume/time
    > > number.
    > >
    > > If you need more help than this contact me at ronaldsa@e...
    > >
    > > Ron
    > >
    > >
    > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@y...
    > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
    Subject and
    > Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    > _________________________________________________________
    > Do You Yahoo!?
    > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-01-08 15:41
    >Beau; You have made me curious. You mention a Toroid coil with a primary
    >connected to 15khz pulsed source. A secondary coil like a solenoid and the
    >volume of gas passing through the center of the solenoid can be measured by
    >variation in frequency and amplitude. I am puzzled about the configuration
    >description and the Physics about how this works. Measuring gas flow is not
    >my field of knowledge but I would appreciate it if you would explain it to
    >me or point me to some references that I may study on-line.
    >Thanks, Steve

    Picture two "funnels" with each of the narrow ends back to back. One has
    a pitch of about 45 degrees (decreasing the diameter to 1/4 that of the
    original size) and the other has a pitch of about 30 degrees (increasing
    the diameter to it's original size). The center of the Toroid coil is
    placed at the center of the two funnels in a way that gas flows through
    the center of the T-coil and at the point where the flow of gas is the
    fastest. The secondary coil is wound outwards on the 30 degree funnel
    perpendicular to the gas flow. As the Toroid coil is pulsed the gas
    attempts to align. The secondary picks up on the collapsing alignment
    and induces a small charge into the secondary coil. Frequency will
    shift depending on if the gas flow speeds up or slows down. The faster
    the gas flow, the more current will be induced into the secondary coil
    thus causing a rise in the measured output voltage.


    Beau Schwabe Mask Designer IV - ATL
    National Semiconductor Wired Communications Division
    500 Pinnacle Court, Suite 525 Mail Stop GA1 Norcross, GA 30071
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-01-08 21:01
    Thank you all,
    I would prefer to use an off the shelf gas flow sensor since this is for a
    project at work. The project involves logging all kinds of welding
    parameters. It's going to be used with an automated TIG welding machine.
    (Arc Machines Inc model 215). And the whole setup will be used in the repair
    and maintenence of a nuclear power reactor. Cost is ALMOST not an issue.
    I'll look into some more. Thanks again!

    /Henrik Olsson.
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-01-08 21:27
    Beau, Thank you very much for your explanation.
    Regards, Steve
    Original Message
    From: "Beau Schwabe" <bschwabe@a...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 7:41 AM
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Gas flow sensor.


    >
    > >Beau; You have made me curious. You mention a Toroid coil with a primary
    > >connected to 15khz pulsed source. A secondary coil like a solenoid and
    the
    > >volume of gas passing through the center of the solenoid can be measured
    by
    > >variation in frequency and amplitude. I am puzzled about the
    configuration
    > >description and the Physics about how this works. Measuring gas flow is
    not
    > >my field of knowledge but I would appreciate it if you would explain it
    to
    > >me or point me to some references that I may study on-line.
    > >Thanks, Steve
    >
    > Picture two "funnels" with each of the narrow ends back to back. One has
    > a pitch of about 45 degrees (decreasing the diameter to 1/4 that of the
    > original size) and the other has a pitch of about 30 degrees (increasing
    > the diameter to it's original size). The center of the Toroid coil is
    > placed at the center of the two funnels in a way that gas flows through
    > the center of the T-coil and at the point where the flow of gas is the
    > fastest. The secondary coil is wound outwards on the 30 degree funnel
    > perpendicular to the gas flow. As the Toroid coil is pulsed the gas
    > attempts to align. The secondary picks up on the collapsing alignment
    > and induces a small charge into the secondary coil. Frequency will
    > shift depending on if the gas flow speeds up or slows down. The faster
    > the gas flow, the more current will be induced into the secondary coil
    > thus causing a rise in the measured output voltage.
    >
    >
    >
    > Beau Schwabe Mask Designer IV - ATL
    > National Semiconductor Wired Communications Division
    > 500 Pinnacle Court, Suite 525 Mail Stop GA1 Norcross, GA 30071
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-01-09 01:46
    Henrik,

    What is your budget? I know of several possibilities that may work...

    The company I work specializes in these types of devices.

    Regards,
    Aaron

    On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 20:57:34 +0100 "Henrik Olsson"
    <henrik-olsson@t...> writes:
    > Hi all,
    > A little off topic, I know but....
    > I'm in need of a gas flow sensor capable of measuring about 10 to 30
    > litres per minute of argon that can be interfaced to a Stamp or Pic.
    0-10V,
    > 4-20mA, Frequency, PWM, whatever.
    > Anyone have any ideas?
    > Thanks alot!
    > /Henrik Olsson. Sweden.
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-01-09 04:50
    At 01:01 PM 1/8/2002 , you wrote:
    >Thank you all,
    >I would prefer to use an off the shelf gas flow sensor since this is for a
    >project at work. The project involves logging all kinds of welding
    >parameters. It's going to be used with an automated TIG welding machine.
    >(Arc Machines Inc model 215). And the whole setup will be used in the repair
    >and maintenence of a nuclear power reactor. Cost is ALMOST not an issue.
    >I'll look into some more. Thanks again!
    >
    > /Henrik Olsson.

    Henrick,

    Check out MKS flow controllers at http://www.mksinst.com/



    Greg Hensley
    Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
    Defense Sciences Engineering Division
    7000 East Avenue Mail Stop L-369
    Livermore, CA 94550
    Phone: (925) 423-4850
    Fax: (925) 422-2118
    Email: hensley1@l...
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-01-09 14:20
    These MKS sensors are also available on E-bay if you want a lower
    inital cost for a test.

    Dave

    bty, you you guys spend $800.00 on toilet seats that are seismicly
    tested ? Gotta make sure everything works in an earthquake !





    --- In basicstamps@y..., Greg Hensley <hensley1@l...> wrote:
    > At 01:01 PM 1/8/2002 , you wrote:
    > >Thank you all,
    > >I would prefer to use an off the shelf gas flow sensor since this
    is for a
    > >project at work. The project involves logging all kinds of welding
    > >parameters. It's going to be used with an automated TIG welding
    machine.
    > >(Arc Machines Inc model 215). And the whole setup will be used in
    the repair
    > >and maintenence of a nuclear power reactor. Cost is ALMOST not an
    issue.
    > >I'll look into some more. Thanks again!
    > >
    > > /Henrik Olsson.
    >
    > Henrick,
    >
    > Check out MKS flow controllers at http://www.mksinst.com/
    >
    >
    >
    > Greg Hensley
    > Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
    > Defense Sciences Engineering Division
    > 7000 East Avenue Mail Stop L-369
    > Livermore, CA 94550
    > Phone: (925) 423-4850
    > Fax: (925) 422-2118
    > Email: hensley1@l...
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-01-10 19:08
    At 06:20 AM 1/9/2002 , you wrote:
    >These MKS sensors are also available on E-bay if you want a lower
    >inital cost for a test.
    >
    >Dave
    >
    >bty, you you guys spend $800.00 on toilet seats that are seismicly
    >tested ? Gotta make sure everything works in an earthquake !


    Dave,
    I agree with you about Ebay. I referred him to MKS so he could choose
    the right model and range for his application first.

    As for toilet seats, you've got us confused with NASA. I would
    probably put a stamp on it to signal that someone's been thrown
    off during the quake!! Much cheaper!!

    Greg

    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-01-10 22:41
    As for toilet seats, you've got us confused with NASA. I would
    probably put a stamp on it to signal that someone's been thrown
    off during the quake!! Much cheaper!!

    Don't laugh I have a cabin in Big Bear CA and was on the white seat when the
    quake hit about 10 years ago, I was praying for a seat belt at the time not
    to mention the splash effect!!


    Original Message
    From: "Greg Hensley" <hensley1@l...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: January 10, 2002 11:08 AM
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Gas flow sensor.


    | At 06:20 AM 1/9/2002 , you wrote:
    | >These MKS sensors are also available on E-bay if you want a lower
    | >inital cost for a test.
    | >
    | >Dave
    | >
    | >bty, you you guys spend $800.00 on toilet seats that are seismicly
    | >tested ? Gotta make sure everything works in an earthquake !
    |
    |
    | Dave,
    | I agree with you about Ebay. I referred him to MKS so he could choose
    | the right model and range for his application first.
    |
    | As for toilet seats, you've got us confused with NASA. I would
    | probably put a stamp on it to signal that someone's been thrown
    | off during the quake!! Much cheaper!!
    |
    | Greg
    |
    | [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    |
    |
    | To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    | basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    | from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    |
    |
    | Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    |
    |
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-01-11 13:14
    Hi Greg,

    We sold HUGE (80 inch diam) isokenetic stack sampliers to lots of the
    nuke plants with one standard approved design, until....

    there was an earthquake at one plant and then everything had to be
    seismicly tested. talk about raising the costs! the manufacturer
    had to hire a nuclear engineer to review everything and.....and ....

    the costs went through the roof !

    Also IMHO, I think the cost to make and run nuke plants are sooooo
    cheap that they have to inflate the building and associated costs
    just to spend the money. (end of unresearched opinion)

    Dave
    back to en-gin-ear-in'




    --- In basicstamps@y..., Greg Hensley <hensley1@l...> wrote:
    > At 06:20 AM 1/9/2002 , you wrote:
    > >These MKS sensors are also available on E-bay if you want a lower
    > >inital cost for a test.
    > >
    > >Dave
    > >
    > >bty, you you guys spend $800.00 on toilet seats that are seismicly
    > >tested ? Gotta make sure everything works in an earthquake !
    >
    >
    > Dave,
    > I agree with you about Ebay. I referred him to MKS so he could
    choose
    > the right model and range for his application first.
    >
    > As for toilet seats, you've got us confused with NASA. I would
    > probably put a stamp on it to signal that someone's been thrown
    > off during the quake!! Much cheaper!!
    >
    > Greg
    >
    > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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