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Flame simulator — Parallax Forums

Flame simulator

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2001-10-19 19:47 in General Discussion
I would like to realalisiticly simulate a flame in a fireplace using a BS 1 or
BS 2.
For now I would just be using super bright LED's, maybe one yellow and two red's
connected to three output pins.
I would like the LED's to flicker independently, each for random length of time
and to vary from dim, not off, to bright.
Has anyone done something similar and have any code to share?

Thanks in advance,
Tom


[noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-10-17 14:13
    I've not actually tried this, but having seen other flame simulator circuits,
    you may consider using the PWM command (with a MIN value for the forward
    voltage of the LEDs) to drive the LEDs and RANDOM to create the random
    values. You may need to seed RANDOM differently for each LED.

    -- Jon Williams


    In a message dated 10/17/01 7:28:55 AM Central Daylight Time,
    scheibl@p... writes:


    > I would like to realalisiticly simulate a flame in a fireplace using a BS 1
    > or BS 2.
    > For now I would just be using super bright LED's, maybe one yellow and two
    > red's
    > connected to three output pins.
    > I would like the LED's to flicker independently, each for random length of
    > time and to vary from dim, not off, to bright.
    >




    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-10-17 15:17
    I know several people who do this with PAK-V ICs but I don't have their
    code. The PAK-V lets you drive all the LEDs at the same time instead of
    switching between them one at a time.

    http://www.al-williams.com/awce/pak5.htm


    Regards,

    Al Williams
    AWC
    * Floating point A/D
    http://www.al-williams.com/awce/pak9.htm

    >
    Original Message
    > From: Thomas R. Scheibl [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=QwIyHOa2q8dO9d1WI4K-mBvPTH1Vi1eLmb2AT5zonrTKJc2QAbdDPkqbZKupjIk_r2n8wVIMlCT0]scheibl@p...[/url
    > Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 7:26 AM
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Flame simulator
    >
    >
    > I would like to realalisiticly simulate a flame in a fireplace
    > using a BS 1 or BS 2.
    > For now I would just be using super bright LED's, maybe one
    > yellow and two red's
    > connected to three output pins.
    > I would like the LED's to flicker independently, each for random
    > length of time and to vary from dim, not off, to bright.
    > Has anyone done something similar and have any code to share?
    >
    > Thanks in advance,
    > Tom
    >
    >
    > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
    > Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-10-17 16:43
    There is a very low tech solution done in museums and theaters. You
    can make a simple translucent cover (wax paper on some steel wire
    skeleton) and under it a red light, a fan with some streamers. The
    effect is very good. You can replace the fand with a motor with some
    vertical strips (wavy shapes)that turn at different speeds!

    Just a thought, and it may not work at all for you.


    Al


    --- In basicstamps@y..., "Thomas R. Scheibl" <scheibl@p...> wrote:
    > I would like to realalisiticly simulate a flame in a fireplace
    using a BS 1 or BS 2.
    > For now I would just be using super bright LED's, maybe one yellow
    and two red's
    > connected to three output pins.
    > I would like the LED's to flicker independently, each for random
    length of time and to vary from dim, not off, to bright.
    > Has anyone done something similar and have any code to share?
    >
    > Thanks in advance,
    > Tom
    >
    >
    > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-10-17 17:04
    Hello,

    I was trying to do the same,, to make a flickerflame ,
    just like in Disneyland in some cave games.
    I have to tell you that with Basic Stamp is too
    complicated because the BS1 or 2 is a microcontroller
    with a basic language interface that can only
    interprate one command at a time.

    To simulate a flame you need to have at least 2
    independient signals (maybe a sin or cos math
    function). The BS has a command that can generate
    this kind of signal but just 1 at a time,, that means
    that you will have first a flame in one led and then
    this led goes off and then you will have a flame in
    the other led... this doesnt work. A solution for
    this is to use another integrated circuit working with
    the BS2 but it will be a little complicated.

    I did this using another microcontroller but this
    micro is for advance users. This micro is a real micro
    for industrial use. The micro is the Motorola HC12 or
    HC11 (both works). This micro can generate the same
    signal but you can get as much as 32 (depending on the
    package of the micro) signals at the same time and
    each signal can be diferent from the other.

    This is the only and easy way to do it,,,

    If you need more info just tell me!!

    Regards,
    Alex


    --- brownstamp@y... wrote:
    > There is a very low tech solution done in museums
    > and theaters. You
    > can make a simple translucent cover (wax paper on
    > some steel wire
    > skeleton) and under it a red light, a fan with some
    > streamers. The
    > effect is very good. You can replace the fand with
    > a motor with some
    > vertical strips (wavy shapes)that turn at different
    > speeds!
    >
    > Just a thought, and it may not work at all for you.
    >
    >
    > Al
    >
    >
    > --- In basicstamps@y..., "Thomas R. Scheibl"
    > <scheibl@p...> wrote:
    > > I would like to realalisiticly simulate a flame in
    > a fireplace
    > using a BS 1 or BS 2.
    > > For now I would just be using super bright LED's,
    > maybe one yellow
    > and two red's
    > > connected to three output pins.
    > > I would like the LED's to flicker independently,
    > each for random
    > length of time and to vary from dim, not off, to
    > bright.
    > > Has anyone done something similar and have any
    > code to share?
    > >
    > > Thanks in advance,
    > > Tom
    > >
    > >
    > > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been
    > removed]
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed.
    > Text in the Subject and Body of the message will be
    > ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >


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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-10-17 17:15
    Um.... you can have two Stamp outputs on at the same time. Whats to prevent
    you from turning one one "flame," waiting a bit, turning another "flame" on,
    then turning them both off?

    Original Message

    > I was trying to do the same,, to make a flickerflame ,
    > just like in Disneyland in some cave games.
    > I have to tell you that with Basic Stamp is too
    > complicated because the BS1 or 2 is a microcontroller
    > with a basic language interface that can only
    > interprate one command at a time.
    >
    > To simulate a flame you need to have at least 2
    > independient signals (maybe a sin or cos math
    > function). The BS has a command that can generate
    > this kind of signal but just 1 at a time,, that means
    > that you will have first a flame in one led and then
    > this led goes off and then you will have a flame in
    > the other led... this doesnt work. A solution for
    > this is to use another integrated circuit working with
    > the BS2 but it will be a little complicated.
    >
    > I did this using another microcontroller but this
    > micro is for advance users. This micro is a real micro
    > for industrial use. The micro is the Motorola HC12 or
    > HC11 (both works). This micro can generate the same
    > signal but you can get as much as 32 (depending on the
    > package of the micro) signals at the same time and
    > each signal can be diferent from the other.
    >
    > This is the only and easy way to do it,,,
    >
    > If you need more info just tell me!!
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-10-17 19:27
    Also, you can add capacitors and resistors to the outputs of the stamp, and
    drive the LEDs with this. (you may need do drive each circuit through a
    transistor, since some of these ideas could pull more current than the
    stamp is able to sink/source.)

    The light will only get as bright as is driven by the PWM, then slowly
    fade. The stamp could drive the pin low to make the LED fade quickly.

    You can source current to the LEDs through the RC circuit, so the LEDs will
    slowly fade up, and the stamp would drive the RC circuit low to dim the
    leds.

    Note, when you want the RC circuit to take over, the stamp will have to go
    high impedance (input) for that pin.

    You could also have a bunch of RC circuits for each LED. the stamp can mux
    which RC circuit is driving the LED. with different R and C for each
    circuit, the LEDs will fade up/down at different rates.

    so many ideas, so little time.

    hope some of these help,
    joshua

    --On Wednesday, October 17, 2001 11:15 AM -0500 Rodent
    <daweasel@s...> wrote:

    > Um.... you can have two Stamp outputs on at the same time. Whats to
    > prevent you from turning one one "flame," waiting a bit, turning another
    > "flame" on, then turning them both off?
    >
    >
    Original Message
    >
    >> I was trying to do the same,, to make a flickerflame ,
    >> just like in Disneyland in some cave games.
    >> I have to tell you that with Basic Stamp is too
    >> complicated because the BS1 or 2 is a microcontroller
    >> with a basic language interface that can only
    >> interprate one command at a time.
    >>
    >> To simulate a flame you need to have at least 2
    >> independient signals (maybe a sin or cos math
    >> function). The BS has a command that can generate
    >> this kind of signal but just 1 at a time,, that means
    >> that you will have first a flame in one led and then
    >> this led goes off and then you will have a flame in
    >> the other led... this doesnt work. A solution for
    >> this is to use another integrated circuit working with
    >> the BS2 but it will be a little complicated.
    >>
    >> I did this using another microcontroller but this
    >> micro is for advance users. This micro is a real micro
    >> for industrial use. The micro is the Motorola HC12 or
    >> HC11 (both works). This micro can generate the same
    >> signal but you can get as much as 32 (depending on the
    >> package of the micro) signals at the same time and
    >> each signal can be diferent from the other.
    >>
    >> This is the only and easy way to do it,,,
    >>
    >> If you need more info just tell me!!
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-10-18 05:53
    Since this is probally for halloween. Here is some quick and dirty
    solutions.

    Are you trying to make a bulb flicker like a flame?"Asynchronous Lamp
    Flickerer" http://www.phantasmechanics.com/alf.html If so you can use a
    florescent starter. Or rig up a dimmer with a capicator.
    http://www.phantasmechanics.com/fpilot.html
    There is also ways to simulate a fake flame with lights on a silk cloth,
    moved by a fan. http://www.hiddenmickeys.org/Disney/Imagineering/Fire.html

    http://www.employees.org/~joestone/Halloween/Html/silkflame.htm


    http://hometown.aol.com/celynn/page1.html


    MonsterList Of Links to Halloween Do-It-Yourself Projects, where i got the
    links
    http://markbutler.8m.com/monsterlist.htm
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-10-19 14:50
    Thanks to all who replied. The idea of simulating a flame, at first, I thought
    would be easy, but now I see it can get quite involved. The use was to be
    twofold, pumpkin at holloween, using LED's, and artificial fireplace at
    Christmas, using optisolators to drive incandescent bulbs.
    I appreciate all of your advise, and now that it's fall time, I will go to my
    workshop and experiment.

    Thanks to all,
    Tom


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-10-19 15:22
    Thomas: There was an N&V article on making a flashing pumpkin using 2
    radioshack blinking leds tied in parallel as I recall. The idea was that the
    2 leds would flash at differant random rates, and make a flickering flame
    effect.
    I tried it myself and had no luck however.
    -Kerry

    At 08:50 AM 10/19/2001 -0500, you wrote:
    >Thanks to all who replied. The idea of simulating a flame, at first, I
    thought would be easy, but now I see it can get quite involved. The use was
    to be twofold, pumpkin at holloween, using LED's, and artificial fireplace
    at Christmas, using optisolators to drive incandescent bulbs.
    >I appreciate all of your advise, and now that it's fall time, I will go to
    my workshop and experiment.
    >
    >Thanks to all,
    >Tom
    >
    >
    >[noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    >
    >
    >To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
    Sincerely
    Kerry
    Admin@M...
    WWW server hosting [url=Http://mntnweb.com]Http://mntnweb.com[/url]
    Kerry Barlow
    p.o. box 21
    kirkwood ny
    13795
    607-775-1132
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-10-19 15:54
    Stamp is overkill. Wire 2 555's as slow oscillators
    Connect 2 led's back to back between the outputs of the 555's. Here's
    what happens:

    Both 555's ON - both led's OFF
    Both 555's OFF - both led's OFF
    555 #1 ON, 555 #2 OFF - led 1 ON, led 2 OFF
    555 #1 OFF, 555# 2 ON - led 1 OFF, led 2 ON

    The led's alternate pseudo- randomly, with "off" periods. Use
    optoisolators and triacs or solid state relays to drive red and
    orange incandescant bulbs. Adjust frequency and duty cycle of each
    555 for desired effect. I have built this circuit and it works. You
    can use additional, dimmed, red and incandescant lamps to soften the
    flickering effect. The "flickering" lamps can also be dimmed to
    further enhance the realism of the effect. Using surplus parts this
    can all be done for less than the cost of one BS2.

    --- In basicstamps@y..., "Thomas R. Scheibl" <scheibl@p...> wrote:
    > Thanks to all who replied. The idea of simulating a flame, at
    first, I thought would be easy, but now I see it can get quite
    involved. The use was to be twofold, pumpkin at holloween, using
    LED's, and artificial fireplace at Christmas, using optisolators to
    drive incandescent bulbs.
    > I appreciate all of your advise, and now that it's fall time, I
    will go to my workshop and experiment.
    >
    > Thanks to all,
    > Tom
    >
    >
    > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-10-19 19:43
    Hi Tom,

    I didn't see this mentioned specifically in the other replies, so I
    thought I would bring it up. I think the way I would approach this
    would be with a tight loop and the RANDOM function. That would
    require several LEDs on different pins. Let's assume

    ' 8 leds on 8 pins, P8 to P15
    x var word
    dirh=$ff
    loop:
    random x
    outh=x
    pause 1
    goto loop

    The number of leds lit at a time is random, so flickering is the
    result. The pause command slows it down a bit, but I am not sure
    what delay would give the best effect. Without a pause, the loop on
    the BS2 would run about 1500 times per second, which might make the
    overall flicker rate too fast. You could also fiddle with the pause
    value to make it random:
    pause x.nib3


    Just an untested thought.

    -- best regards
    Tracy Allen
    electronically monitored ecosystems
    http://www.emesystems.com
    mailto:tracy@e...


    >I would like to realalisiticly simulate a flame in a fireplace using
    >a BS 1 or BS 2.
    >For now I would just be using super bright LED's, maybe one yellow
    >and two red's
    >connected to three output pins.
    >I would like the LED's to flicker independently, each for random
    >length of time and to vary from dim, not off, to bright.
    >Has anyone done something similar and have any code to share?
    >
    >Thanks in advance,
    >Tom
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-10-19 19:47
    At 08:50 AM 10/19/01 -0500, Thomas R. Scheibl wrote:
    >Thanks to all who replied. The idea of simulating a flame, at first, I
    >thought would be easy, but now I see it can get quite involved. The use
    >was to be twofold, pumpkin at holloween, using LED's, and artificial
    >fireplace at Christmas, using optisolators to drive incandescent bulbs.
    >I appreciate all of your advise, and now that it's fall time, I will go to
    >my workshop and experiment.

    Maybe go and search out the old Popular Electronics / Radio Electronics
    website (www.gernsback.com) and see if they have any old articles on line
    for this. I saw it done in an old magazine article: they used 4 astable
    oscillators all running at slightly different frequencies, with the outputs
    summed to the control input of whatever lamp driver they were using. It
    looked inexpensive and might do what you need.

    dwayne



    Dwayne Reid <dwayner@p...>
    Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA
    (780) 489-3199 voice (780) 487-6397 fax

    Celebrating 17 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2001)

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