Circuit Boards
Archiver
Posts: 46,084
Hello:
I've been making my own circuit boards for a while now and have also
looked into having circuit boards made professionally both of these
options leave something to be desired (cost for small prototype runs
and having to drill all the holes yourself for the other). However I
have found that it would be quite feasible to make a larger run of
circuit boards.
I was wondering what kind of interest there would be in moderatly
priced circuit boards available in both kit form as well as assembled
and tested. I currently envision a board with eight relays which
takes logic input, A serial output board that would use 7 data lines
for 32 outputs (6 for 24 5 for 12 or 4 for 8) which would be capable
of driving a high current load (500 ma). As well as simple
opto/isolated Mosfet H-bridge motor controller which would use 2 data
lines and be able to drive upto a 12 volt 4 Amp motor. I was
wondering what kind of interest there is out there for this kind of
thing.
Thank You, Any input would be greatly appreciated
I've been making my own circuit boards for a while now and have also
looked into having circuit boards made professionally both of these
options leave something to be desired (cost for small prototype runs
and having to drill all the holes yourself for the other). However I
have found that it would be quite feasible to make a larger run of
circuit boards.
I was wondering what kind of interest there would be in moderatly
priced circuit boards available in both kit form as well as assembled
and tested. I currently envision a board with eight relays which
takes logic input, A serial output board that would use 7 data lines
for 32 outputs (6 for 24 5 for 12 or 4 for 8) which would be capable
of driving a high current load (500 ma). As well as simple
opto/isolated Mosfet H-bridge motor controller which would use 2 data
lines and be able to drive upto a 12 volt 4 Amp motor. I was
wondering what kind of interest there is out there for this kind of
thing.
Thank You, Any input would be greatly appreciated
Comments
This may be something I have been pursuing for a while now.
I currently have a simple circuit design that I built on a breadboard.
I am now ready to move it to production. This will be in small quantities.
Maybe 10 or so to start with and as many as 10 - 50 in future orders.
The complete circuit consists of the following:
1 - chip/stamp
7 - resistors
2 - LEDS
2 - 9 pin male or female interface plugs
3 - capacitors
1 - crystal
4 - pairs of header pins.
What would it cost to reproduce about 10 of these?
(Not including the cost of the chip/stamp.)
Thanks,
Wayne Fulcher
wayne@d...
Original Message
From: Chris Loiacono [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=2u3XLUcduqzYtpEY8wH71XpEvTgYtCWjFJsSauTAMI24oNQ1CaOtZ1YHdxvK6OJZE57KmruWkjRwqcPXbg]chris@m...[/urlOn Behalf Of Chris Loiacono
(E-mail)
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:26 PM
To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Circuit Boards
I can't answer that one, but it raises a related question:
I have been thinking of setting up a low volume line to produce proto
boards, limiting it to 2 sided plated thru-1 oz. copper, say 6" x 6" max. I
feel like most of the proto PCB houses are pricing their boards too high for
most of us. (I just paid over $500 for a 3 pc. rush run) I'm thinking that
their standard pricing is way too high.
Would anyone in the 'wide world of stamps' us this service? What do you all
think would be reasonable pricing for proto's? If I only made a few small
bucks I would still win because I would have the benefit of using it for my
own many boards.
What say ye?
Chris
>
Original Message
> From: Aaron [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=Sam-NQfrrtG8xPlgAECMuaTxUWlK4N2518Dj-xooCNZqL57QgvNlWZpviC6wJOf1KCcPJtpdxlmYZBIarQ]snazzyguy2@y...[/url
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:04 PM
> To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Circuit Boards
>
>
> Hello:
>
> I've been making my own circuit boards for a while now and have also
> looked into having circuit boards made professionally both of these
> options leave something to be desired (cost for small prototype runs
> and having to drill all the holes yourself for the other). However I
> have found that it would be quite feasible to make a larger run of
> circuit boards.
>
> I was wondering what kind of interest there would be in moderatly
> priced circuit boards available in both kit form as well as assembled
> and tested. I currently envision a board with eight relays which
> takes logic input, A serial output board that would use 7 data lines
> for 32 outputs (6 for 24 5 for 12 or 4 for 8) which would be capable
> of driving a high current load (500 ma). As well as simple
> opto/isolated Mosfet H-bridge motor controller which would use 2 data
> lines and be able to drive upto a 12 volt 4 Amp motor. I was
> wondering what kind of interest there is out there for this kind of
> thing.
>
> Thank You, Any input would be greatly appreciated
>
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
> Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
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> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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I have been thinking of setting up a low volume line to produce proto
boards, limiting it to 2 sided plated thru-1 oz. copper, say 6" x 6" max. I
feel like most of the proto PCB houses are pricing their boards too high for
most of us. (I just paid over $500 for a 3 pc. rush run) I'm thinking that
their standard pricing is way too high.
Would anyone in the 'wide world of stamps' us this service? What do you all
think would be reasonable pricing for proto's? If I only made a few small
bucks I would still win because I would have the benefit of using it for my
own many boards.
What say ye?
Chris
>
Original Message
> From: Aaron [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=Ux81FAGGA8bJKNDCeFty-RhZFlDW3U7xNll_9fuYueUNuf47okQyNo8x5qg633I6VQizp3EuUgk6acyX]snazzyguy2@y...[/url
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:04 PM
> To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Circuit Boards
>
>
> Hello:
>
> I've been making my own circuit boards for a while now and have also
> looked into having circuit boards made professionally both of these
> options leave something to be desired (cost for small prototype runs
> and having to drill all the holes yourself for the other). However I
> have found that it would be quite feasible to make a larger run of
> circuit boards.
>
> I was wondering what kind of interest there would be in moderatly
> priced circuit boards available in both kit form as well as assembled
> and tested. I currently envision a board with eight relays which
> takes logic input, A serial output board that would use 7 data lines
> for 32 outputs (6 for 24 5 for 12 or 4 for 8) which would be capable
> of driving a high current load (500 ma). As well as simple
> opto/isolated Mosfet H-bridge motor controller which would use 2 data
> lines and be able to drive upto a 12 volt 4 Amp motor. I was
> wondering what kind of interest there is out there for this kind of
> thing.
>
> Thank You, Any input would be greatly appreciated
>
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
> Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
I have been in the same boat the last few months: too high prices for low
quantities.
We finally decided to get 50 boards manufactured, which we hope to sell.
I bet there are tens (if not hundreds) of people that would like to have
professional
or semi-professional prints but that are put off by the high prices.
Maybe it's time to bind forces.
Multiple designs can be put onto a single board, using v-cuts to break off
the individual
prints after production. That would divide the tooling costs across multiple
designs
(normally tooling costs are about US$ 200 per design, hence the high prices
for low quantities).
This would require a person with a gerber tool to put multiple designs on a
single board.
Any volunteers?
It is also possible to form a group of people that want their design
manufactured in quantities of lets say 25.
(for 25+ boards the cost per board is acceptable). Any person joining that
group would spent the same
amount of money that they would spent for their own few (proto) boards. As
the number of boards is
higher and the cost lower, they can have more professional prints for the
same money. This does mean
bying each other boards. If the group would have 100 members only 1 out of 4
would need to buy
a particular design. Any thoughts about this?
Greetings peter
Oorspronkelijk bericht
Van: Chris Loiacono [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=g26QYP7HQSdYClUauwXfowmlObXNBUWlv6mx93924VtckHRQII1inlo61mEyygSaSgDj-YnEUUE]chris@m...[/urlNamens Chris Loiacono
(E-mail)
Verzonden: donderdag 16 augustus 2001 22:26
Aan: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Circuit Boards
I can't answer that one, but it raises a related question:
I have been thinking of setting up a low volume line to produce proto
boards, limiting it to 2 sided plated thru-1 oz. copper, say 6" x 6" max. I
feel like most of the proto PCB houses are pricing their boards too high for
most of us. (I just paid over $500 for a 3 pc. rush run) I'm thinking that
their standard pricing is way too high.
Would anyone in the 'wide world of stamps' us this service? What do you all
think would be reasonable pricing for proto's? If I only made a few small
bucks I would still win because I would have the benefit of using it for my
own many boards.
What say ye?
Chris
>
Original Message
> From: Aaron [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=WD680sYpE2Wt7Gp6S7J3yBl7ehis9cRcvRArGk9zDPHifB9wT0rTm_ZgCbItLRBYGYWNgmHWNxLzXw]snazzyguy2@y...[/url
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:04 PM
> To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Circuit Boards
>
>
> Hello:
>
> I've been making my own circuit boards for a while now and have also
> looked into having circuit boards made professionally both of these
> options leave something to be desired (cost for small prototype runs
> and having to drill all the holes yourself for the other). However I
> have found that it would be quite feasible to make a larger run of
> circuit boards.
>
> I was wondering what kind of interest there would be in moderatly
> priced circuit boards available in both kit form as well as assembled
> and tested. I currently envision a board with eight relays which
> takes logic input, A serial output board that would use 7 data lines
> for 32 outputs (6 for 24 5 for 12 or 4 for 8) which would be capable
> of driving a high current load (500 ma). As well as simple
> opto/isolated Mosfet H-bridge motor controller which would use 2 data
> lines and be able to drive upto a 12 volt 4 Amp motor. I was
> wondering what kind of interest there is out there for this kind of
> thing.
>
> Thank You, Any input would be greatly appreciated
>
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
> Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
www.pcbexpress.com . Anyway, they do "turn-key" applications for
semi-professional boards. You can get a 6"x6" (36" square) 2-sided PCB with
no silk screen or mask for about $136 plus shipping. You will get 2 each
for this amount. Since they are "turn-key" they are strict about their
requirements and they spell it out in for you on their website. However, I
am not good at gerber files and usually make several mistakes. They
basically charge $15 per mistake that they find. This does not mean that
they will take responsibility for your gerber files nor the design but it
does mean that if you left something "daggling" they will fix it and charge
you. So follow their instruction to the letter and you should get a very
nice PCB.
Hope this helps everyone.
Steve Tatum
Original Message
From: Aaron [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=BbuMPCyP_z2Ha7N5c6tyc7kvE16TuhWt72W1ElzM8rG2V_1AZZvvDS1_U48wJ43OgZLnfGo7HmzFv8EdUY4]snazzyguy2@y...[/url
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 4:04 PM
To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Circuit Boards
Hello:
I've been making my own circuit boards for a while now and have also
looked into having circuit boards made professionally both of these
options leave something to be desired (cost for small prototype runs
and having to drill all the holes yourself for the other). However I
have found that it would be quite feasible to make a larger run of
circuit boards.
I was wondering what kind of interest there would be in moderatly
priced circuit boards available in both kit form as well as assembled
and tested. I currently envision a board with eight relays which
takes logic input, A serial output board that would use 7 data lines
for 32 outputs (6 for 24 5 for 12 or 4 for 8) which would be capable
of driving a high current load (500 ma). As well as simple
opto/isolated Mosfet H-bridge motor controller which would use 2 data
lines and be able to drive upto a 12 volt 4 Amp motor. I was
wondering what kind of interest there is out there for this kind of
thing.
Thank You, Any input would be greatly appreciated
To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
here for $33.00 each. http://www.4pcb.com/33each.html
They do all my protoype boards, and deliver 99.9% of the time
in under 1-week. Outstanding work too...
Regards,
-Bruce
webmaster@r...
http://www.rentron.com
> I have been used a company called PCB Express. Their website is
> www.pcbexpress.com . Anyway, they do "turn-key" applications for
> semi-professional boards. You can get a 6"x6" (36" square) 2-sided PCB with
> no silk screen or mask for about $136 plus shipping. You will get 2 each
> for this amount. Since they are "turn-key" they are strict about their
> requirements and they spell it out in for you on their website. However, I
> am not good at gerber files and usually make several mistakes. They
> basically charge $15 per mistake that they find. This does not mean that
> they will take responsibility for your gerber files nor the design but it
> does mean that if you left something "daggling" they will fix it and charge
> you. So follow their instruction to the letter and you should get a very
> nice PCB.
>
> Hope this helps everyone.
> Steve Tatum
>
>
Original Message
> From: Aaron [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=NFmQRWUA0FiL7h-igChs8PUN5B0Btkp1Ecfyi5fGkJ2WhyNKohz4MXG0b1zXgdZBgndzSyW7gdcqrsUVdBc]snazzyguy2@y...[/url
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 4:04 PM
> To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Circuit Boards
>
>
> Hello:
>
> I've been making my own circuit boards for a while now and have also
> looked into having circuit boards made professionally both of these
> options leave something to be desired (cost for small prototype runs
> and having to drill all the holes yourself for the other). However I
> have found that it would be quite feasible to make a larger run of
> circuit boards.
>
> I was wondering what kind of interest there would be in moderatly
> priced circuit boards available in both kit form as well as assembled
> and tested. I currently envision a board with eight relays which
> takes logic input, A serial output board that would use 7 data lines
> for 32 outputs (6 for 24 5 for 12 or 4 for 8) which would be capable
> of driving a high current load (500 ma). As well as simple
> opto/isolated Mosfet H-bridge motor controller which would use 2 data
> lines and be able to drive upto a 12 volt 4 Amp motor. I was
> wondering what kind of interest there is out there for this kind of
> thing.
>
> Thank You, Any input would be greatly appreciated
>
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
> Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
That's much better than most PC houses. What size and quantities for the
boards you mentioned? Are there any nonrecurring or setup charges? How do
they handle errors in the Gerber files?
thanks,
Mike
At 05:58 PM 8/16/2001 -0600, you wrote:
>You can get double-sided, plated through, silk-screened boards
>here for $33.00 each. http://www.4pcb.com/33each.html
>
>They do all my protoype boards, and deliver 99.9% of the time
>in under 1-week. Outstanding work too...
>
>
>Regards,
>
>-Bruce
>webmaster@r...
>http://www.rentron.com
_________________________________
Mike Walsh
walsh@i...
> That's much better than most PC houses. What size and quantities for the
> boards you mentioned? Are there any nonrecurring or setup charges? How do
> they handle errors in the Gerber files?
> thanks,
> Mike
Hi Mike,
2-layers, FR-4, 0.062", 1-Oz-Cu, Solder finish, 6-mil lines, all-plated-holes,
Green LPI Mask, White Legend, individually routed, 1 part number per order
Max size 10" x 15".
No setup fees or tooling charges. I've run at least 20 ptototypes through them
in the
last few weeks. I hope they continue this service. It's darn hard to
beat.....;o]
Best regards,
Bruce Reynolds
webmaster@r...
Reynolds Electronics
3101 Eastridge Lane
Canon City, Co. 81212
Phone: (719) 269-3469
Fax: (719) 276-2853
http://www.rentron.com
Original Message
From: "Mike Walsh" <walsh@c...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Circuit Boards
> Bruce,
> That's much better than most PC houses. What size and quantities for the
> boards you mentioned? Are there any nonrecurring or setup charges? How do
> they handle errors in the Gerber files?
> thanks,
> Mike
>
> At 05:58 PM 8/16/2001 -0600, you wrote:
> >You can get double-sided, plated through, silk-screened boards
> >here for $33.00 each. http://www.4pcb.com/33each.html
> >
> >They do all my protoype boards, and deliver 99.9% of the time
> >in under 1-week. Outstanding work too...
> >
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >-Bruce
> >webmaster@r...
> >http://www.rentron.com
>
> _________________________________
> Mike Walsh
> walsh@i...
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Sounds great! I'm sure to try them on my next project.
(and I WAS happy with my proto house ;-) )
Regards,
Mike
At 06:56 PM 8/16/2001 -0600, you wrote:
>Hi Mike,
>
>2-layers, FR-4, 0.062", 1-Oz-Cu, Solder finish, 6-mil lines, all-plated-holes,
>Green LPI Mask, White Legend, individually routed, 1 part number per order
>Max size 10" x 15".
>
>No setup fees or tooling charges. I've run at least 20 ptototypes through
>them in the
>last few weeks. I hope they continue this service. It's darn hard to
>beat.....;o]
>
>Best regards,
>
>Bruce Reynolds
>webmaster@r...
>
>Reynolds Electronics
>3101 Eastridge Lane
>Canon City, Co. 81212
>Phone: (719) 269-3469
>Fax: (719) 276-2853
>http://www.rentron.com
_________________________________
Mike Walsh
walsh@i...
They give you the software for the PCB design and 2 small PC boards will be
delivered in 2 days for around $100
Not bad for good quality fiberglass boards. I use them all the time for stamp
PLC projects.
Alan Bradford
Plasma Technologies
[noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
3 boards double sided 2.5''x3.8''
$59.00 delivered about 3 days
free software
http://www.expresspcb.com/ they also have others services.
regards
Victor Faria
Original Message
From: "Wayne Fulcher" <wayne@d...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:22 PM
Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Circuit Boards
> If I am not misunderstanding you...
> This may be something I have been pursuing for a while now.
> I currently have a simple circuit design that I built on a breadboard.
> I am now ready to move it to production. This will be in small quantities.
> Maybe 10 or so to start with and as many as 10 - 50 in future orders.
> The complete circuit consists of the following:
> 1 - chip/stamp
> 7 - resistors
> 2 - LEDS
> 2 - 9 pin male or female interface plugs
> 3 - capacitors
> 1 - crystal
> 4 - pairs of header pins.
>
>
> What would it cost to reproduce about 10 of these?
> (Not including the cost of the chip/stamp.)
>
> Thanks,
> Wayne Fulcher
> wayne@d...
>
>
Original Message
> From: Chris Loiacono [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=QId1SB_RNWjDlmhr1uEKPm7fPCqkLgZ45enAehG-e48BglLn7nYevNXSFhd7PAdanXGkGBYRvX74M97OQA]chris@m...[/urlOn Behalf Of Chris
Loiacono
> (E-mail)
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:26 PM
> To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Circuit Boards
>
> I can't answer that one, but it raises a related question:
>
> I have been thinking of setting up a low volume line to produce proto
> boards, limiting it to 2 sided plated thru-1 oz. copper, say 6" x 6" max.
I
> feel like most of the proto PCB houses are pricing their boards too high
for
> most of us. (I just paid over $500 for a 3 pc. rush run) I'm thinking that
> their standard pricing is way too high.
>
> Would anyone in the 'wide world of stamps' us this service? What do you
all
> think would be reasonable pricing for proto's? If I only made a few small
> bucks I would still win because I would have the benefit of using it for
my
> own many boards.
>
> What say ye?
>
> Chris
>
>
> >
Original Message
> > From: Aaron [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=XDcFoQVIFPP2GhDO16ofBKioyxedgQQKuXu2DfNQoUEaAty5miEa3C7rZcFaPqNgLlh32hM-ARGArO_9XQ]snazzyguy2@y...[/url
> > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:04 PM
> > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Circuit Boards
> >
> >
> > Hello:
> >
> > I've been making my own circuit boards for a while now and have also
> > looked into having circuit boards made professionally both of these
> > options leave something to be desired (cost for small prototype runs
> > and having to drill all the holes yourself for the other). However I
> > have found that it would be quite feasible to make a larger run of
> > circuit boards.
> >
> > I was wondering what kind of interest there would be in moderatly
> > priced circuit boards available in both kit form as well as assembled
> > and tested. I currently envision a board with eight relays which
> > takes logic input, A serial output board that would use 7 data lines
> > for 32 outputs (6 for 24 5 for 12 or 4 for 8) which would be capable
> > of driving a high current load (500 ma). As well as simple
> > opto/isolated Mosfet H-bridge motor controller which would use 2 data
> > lines and be able to drive upto a 12 volt 4 Amp motor. I was
> > wondering what kind of interest there is out there for this kind of
> > thing.
> >
> > Thank You, Any input would be greatly appreciated
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
> > Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
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there are some boards that we have all made from time to time I've
done some price checking and have figured that I could produce these
circuit boards fully populated and tested.
Serial High current driver (7 data pins 32 outputs 500 ma Eeach) $20
Relay board with eight 3 Amp capacity relays which accepts logic
signals adn terminal strips for connections $20
8 bit serial input from three data lines $5
And an 8-bit 8 Channel AD converter $7.50
All of these would have headers for output and input placed around
the edge so they could be plugged into a breadboard, soldered into a
perf-board for simplier connections or there's cables available. I
know there have been many times when I have needed any number of
these components and I'm wondering if other people had the same needs
I'd be interested in any interest or suggestions that people might
have
Thank You
Aaron Nielsen
--- In basicstamps@y..., plasmastamp@a... wrote:
> Look at Expresspcb.com
>
> They give you the software for the PCB design and 2 small PC boards
will be
> delivered in 2 days for around $100
>
> Not bad for good quality fiberglass boards. I use them all the time
for stamp
> PLC projects.
>
> Alan Bradford
> Plasma Technologies
>
>
> [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Just my two cents but I found that AP Circuits in Calgary does a really good
job for me and I have used the method Peter has proposed with them to put
multiple boards on a single layout. I am not sure how their pricing is for
overseas shipments (maybe just some extra freight charges), but I find their
pricing fair here in Canada (last time I ordered a board from them, the set
up fee was $67.00 for a set-up and approximately $0.95 per square inch of
board (all of these prices are in Canadian dollars). They do have extra
charges for things like non-standard drill sizes (they have eight standard
sizes on their set up but will drill just about any size hole) and high hole
density but with a little up front intelligent design, these can be zeroed
out of the equation.
For my board design software, I went out and bought Traxmaker quite some
time ago; still works well on my computer.
If anyone wants more information on these points please let me know.
Gerry Shand
Instrument, Controls and Electrical (ICE) Engineer
Hood Technical Consultants
#201, 9440-49 Street
EDMONTON, AB
T6B 2M9
Phone (780) 496-9073
Fax: (780) 496-9075
e-mail: gshand@h...
www.hoodtech.ca
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 00:10:38 +0200
> From: "Peter Verkaik" <peterverkaik@b...>
> Subject: RE: Circuit Boards
>
> Hi,
>
> I have been in the same boat the last few months: too high prices for low
> quantities.
> We finally decided to get 50 boards manufactured, which we hope to sell.
> I bet there are tens (if not hundreds) of people that would like to have
> professional
> or semi-professional prints but that are put off by the high prices.
>
> Maybe it's time to bind forces.
> Multiple designs can be put onto a single board, using v-cuts to break off
> the individual
> prints after production. That would divide the tooling costs across
multiple
> designs
> (normally tooling costs are about US$ 200 per design, hence the high
prices
> for low quantities).
> This would require a person with a gerber tool to put multiple designs on
a
> single board.
> Any volunteers?
ganging boards is the method that the larger board houses use to get us
those nice "low" prices on proto quantities. Advanced Circuit, for example
will batch theirs together to fill their maximum panel size daily. At
scheduled times, they image and run these full sheets at once.
As far as gathering and submitting these together, combining the files from
several sources could be quite a data management task. Liability could run
pretty high also - who would cover the cost of the occasional error?
It sounds like a great idea in a perfect world, but perhaps it would be a
bit too complicated to succeed.
My idea was to invest in the needed tools and processes. I can almost
justify the expense now, but not quite. I thought that others might benefit
from the lower costs while helping the idea break even, and hence be
justifiable...
Chris
>
Original Message
> From: Peter Verkaik [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=-yWj4MU0sCNpzZN7_RwwUc6LANq-NIqvVDMDzXdbJzuTTnU4R41dQj8DjzgaKSKFHOZmcNevpUZ5IKrQfgKpmHBK6w]peterverkaik@b...[/url
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 6:11 PM
> To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Circuit Boards
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I have been in the same boat the last few months: too high
> prices for low
> quantities.
> We finally decided to get 50 boards manufactured, which we
> hope to sell.
> I bet there are tens (if not hundreds) of people that would
> like to have
> professional
> or semi-professional prints but that are put off by the high prices.
>
> Maybe it's time to bind forces.
> Multiple designs can be put onto a single board, using v-cuts
> to break off
> the individual
> prints after production. That would divide the tooling costs
> across multiple
> designs
> (normally tooling costs are about US$ 200 per design, hence
> the high prices
> for low quantities).
> This would require a person with a gerber tool to put
> multiple designs on a
> single board.
> Any volunteers?
>
> It is also possible to form a group of people that want their design
> manufactured in quantities of lets say 25.
> (for 25+ boards the cost per board is acceptable). Any person
> joining that
> group would spent the same
> amount of money that they would spent for their own few
> (proto) boards. As
> the number of boards is
> higher and the cost lower, they can have more professional
> prints for the
> same money. This does mean
> bying each other boards. If the group would have 100 members
> only 1 out of 4
> would need to buy
> a particular design. Any thoughts about this?
>
> Greetings peter
>
>
>
Oorspronkelijk bericht
> Van: Chris Loiacono [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=1jYk75tXgP1WvehR_LgLX6CVRnv2U8tkzfaOBwM3ua9QKaYP5dKCYTm-ZkV4gpDO052EwkwvZ6ZT]chris@m...[/urlNamens Chris Loiacono
> (E-mail)
> Verzonden: donderdag 16 augustus 2001 22:26
> Aan: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> Onderwerp: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Circuit Boards
>
> I can't answer that one, but it raises a related question:
>
> I have been thinking of setting up a low volume line to produce proto
> boards, limiting it to 2 sided plated thru-1 oz. copper, say
> 6" x 6" max. I
> feel like most of the proto PCB houses are pricing their
> boards too high for
> most of us. (I just paid over $500 for a 3 pc. rush run) I'm
> thinking that
> their standard pricing is way too high.
>
> Would anyone in the 'wide world of stamps' us this service?
> What do you all
> think would be reasonable pricing for proto's? If I only made
> a few small
> bucks I would still win because I would have the benefit of
> using it for my
> own many boards.
>
> What say ye?
>
> Chris
>
>
> >
Original Message
> > From: Aaron [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=HnrgZYKoFCLgXKHjHihocwZzcZRjkrSK7VIVpRJs_S9_G7FdlTsE0mqpAZRN3ZiZzO_HVppXuC0RcXrq1g]snazzyguy2@y...[/url
> > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:04 PM
> > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Circuit Boards
> >
> >
> > Hello:
> >
> > I've been making my own circuit boards for a while now and have also
> > looked into having circuit boards made professionally both of these
> > options leave something to be desired (cost for small prototype runs
> > and having to drill all the holes yourself for the other). However I
> > have found that it would be quite feasible to make a larger run of
> > circuit boards.
> >
> > I was wondering what kind of interest there would be in moderatly
> > priced circuit boards available in both kit form as well as
> assembled
> > and tested. I currently envision a board with eight relays which
> > takes logic input, A serial output board that would use 7 data lines
> > for 32 outputs (6 for 24 5 for 12 or 4 for 8) which would be capable
> > of driving a high current load (500 ma). As well as simple
> > opto/isolated Mosfet H-bridge motor controller which would
> use 2 data
> > lines and be able to drive upto a 12 volt 4 Amp motor. I was
> > wondering what kind of interest there is out there for this kind of
> > thing.
> >
> > Thank You, Any input would be greatly appreciated
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
> > Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
> Subject and
> Body of the message will be ignored.
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>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
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> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Chris
>
Original Message
> From: Wayne Fulcher [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=oKJdg60bP4gwWemcICWy_qUYUjhzCUeqMxC8JfZF67smTOec3ZGhXRo1Wpbx6uuvgnJdgXnfNg]wayne@d...[/url
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:23 PM
> To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Circuit Boards
>
>
> If I am not misunderstanding you...
> This may be something I have been pursuing for a while now.
> I currently have a simple circuit design that I built on a breadboard.
> I am now ready to move it to production. This will be in
> small quantities.
> Maybe 10 or so to start with and as many as 10 - 50 in future orders.
> The complete circuit consists of the following:
> 1 - chip/stamp
> 7 - resistors
> 2 - LEDS
> 2 - 9 pin male or female interface plugs
> 3 - capacitors
> 1 - crystal
> 4 - pairs of header pins.
>
>
> What would it cost to reproduce about 10 of these?
> (Not including the cost of the chip/stamp.)
>
> Thanks,
> Wayne Fulcher
> wayne@d...
>
>
Original Message
> From: Chris Loiacono [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=brdGz99WRloayEJLp-t1KdKtqE_cd2e1sm_Z56gPIDJ7TMl3FbRHEYAC031SpWVmGAgWn5aMza0BX98C]chris@m...[/urlOn Behalf Of
> Chris Loiacono
> (E-mail)
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:26 PM
> To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Circuit Boards
>
> I can't answer that one, but it raises a related question:
>
> I have been thinking of setting up a low volume line to produce proto
> boards, limiting it to 2 sided plated thru-1 oz. copper, say
> 6" x 6" max. I
> feel like most of the proto PCB houses are pricing their
> boards too high for
> most of us. (I just paid over $500 for a 3 pc. rush run) I'm
> thinking that
> their standard pricing is way too high.
>
> Would anyone in the 'wide world of stamps' us this service?
> What do you all
> think would be reasonable pricing for proto's? If I only made
> a few small
> bucks I would still win because I would have the benefit of
> using it for my
> own many boards.
>
> What say ye?
>
> Chris
>
>
> >
Original Message
> > From: Aaron [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=3olNsnQXySV8Ki2HGNhD6Bck2Tpxqd6-HUap7g7-qbyMgR2xmbG0Q9sd890cIitGTznEw2thlf6d1A]snazzyguy2@y...[/url
> > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:04 PM
> > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Circuit Boards
> >
> >
> > Hello:
> >
> > I've been making my own circuit boards for a while now and have also
> > looked into having circuit boards made professionally both of these
> > options leave something to be desired (cost for small prototype runs
> > and having to drill all the holes yourself for the other). However I
> > have found that it would be quite feasible to make a larger run of
> > circuit boards.
> >
> > I was wondering what kind of interest there would be in moderatly
> > priced circuit boards available in both kit form as well as
> assembled
> > and tested. I currently envision a board with eight relays which
> > takes logic input, A serial output board that would use 7 data lines
> > for 32 outputs (6 for 24 5 for 12 or 4 for 8) which would be capable
> > of driving a high current load (500 ma). As well as simple
> > opto/isolated Mosfet H-bridge motor controller which would
> use 2 data
> > lines and be able to drive upto a 12 volt 4 Amp motor. I was
> > wondering what kind of interest there is out there for this kind of
> > thing.
> >
> > Thank You, Any input would be greatly appreciated
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
> > Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
> Subject and
> Body of the message will be ignored.
>
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> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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>
>
>
cutting their rates substantially. If I'm not mistaken, these service
companies typically provide a mixed bag - some include silk an mask, others,
not. When you work out the pricing on the combination, you almost always
seem to pay about the same, apples for apples.
Wouldn't it be great to get the first two boards for $20 apiece, even if w/o
solder mask & silk-screen. 10 pieces at that price should get both included.
This is my goal...
Chris
> I have been used a company called PCB Express. Their website is
> www.pcbexpress.com . Anyway, they do "turn-key" applications for
> semi-professional boards. You can get a 6"x6" (36" square)
> 2-sided PCB with
> no silk screen or mask for about $136 plus shipping. You
> will get 2 each
> for this amount. Since they are "turn-key" they are strict
> about their
> requirements and they spell it out in for you on their
> website. However, I
> am not good at gerber files and usually make several mistakes. They
> basically charge $15 per mistake that they find. This does
> not mean that
> they will take responsibility for your gerber files nor the
> design but it
> does mean that if you left something "daggling" they will fix
> it and charge
> you. So follow their instruction to the letter and you
> should get a very
> nice PCB.
>
> Hope this helps everyone.
> Steve Tatum
>
>
Original Message
> From: Aaron [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=y-dUqWOtCNSU2SA3wUMPlihMgkPcwe-FChdOwh7IWXSx3iDc6unRES78mztNpWJrvWDKsz_OQRKvEdk]snazzyguy2@y...[/url
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 4:04 PM
> To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Circuit Boards
>
>
> Hello:
>
> I've been making my own circuit boards for a while now and have also
> looked into having circuit boards made professionally both of these
> options leave something to be desired (cost for small prototype runs
> and having to drill all the holes yourself for the other). However I
> have found that it would be quite feasible to make a larger run of
> circuit boards.
>
> I was wondering what kind of interest there would be in moderatly
> priced circuit boards available in both kit form as well as assembled
> and tested. I currently envision a board with eight relays which
> takes logic input, A serial output board that would use 7 data lines
> for 32 outputs (6 for 24 5 for 12 or 4 for 8) which would be capable
> of driving a high current load (500 ma). As well as simple
> opto/isolated Mosfet H-bridge motor controller which would use 2 data
> lines and be able to drive upto a 12 volt 4 Amp motor. I was
> wondering what kind of interest there is out there for this kind of
> thing.
>
> Thank You, Any input would be greatly appreciated
>
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
> Subject and
> Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
> Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
I recently switched to Advanced Circuits, from ASAP Circuits.
It was my understanding that the $33 pricing will not last forever. They are
the ones that I just paid $500+ to because I needed quicker delivery, and
I'm not at all thrilled with their quality. I have had stray copper under
their solder mask, and some really jagged trace edges and misregistration.
Also, their boards don't even like to be reworked with a 15W iron, so extra
care is needed. The first board I gave them actually seemed much better than
the first. They seem to do well with file transfers though, and I have
learned to design for their limitations. I believe they are the best deal in
town at the moment as well, however.
It is this cost and delivery that I would like to improve upon. I plan to
tell my Advanced circuits Rep that I want the results you are getting.
Perhaps they can offer an additional discount for stampers...
Chris
>
Original Message
> From: Webmaster@r... [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=QUm3icb1xhPMc-k_IjA-XtKMAMWSpH2CTkOLugz65LnMQlXwoqcwza2-VZUg5iOBc9BnAWfKEQAq]breyno2@r...[/url
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 7:58 PM
> To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Circuit Boards
>
>
> You can get double-sided, plated through, silk-screened boards
> here for $33.00 each. http://www.4pcb.com/33each.html
>
> They do all my protoype boards, and deliver 99.9% of the time
> in under 1-week. Outstanding work too...
>
>
> Regards,
>
> -Bruce
> webmaster@r...
> http://www.rentron.com
>
> > I have been used a company called PCB Express. Their website is
> > www.pcbexpress.com . Anyway, they do "turn-key" applications for
> > semi-professional boards. You can get a 6"x6" (36" square)
> 2-sided PCB with
> > no silk screen or mask for about $136 plus shipping. You
> will get 2 each
> > for this amount. Since they are "turn-key" they are strict
> about their
> > requirements and they spell it out in for you on their
> website. However, I
> > am not good at gerber files and usually make several mistakes. They
> > basically charge $15 per mistake that they find. This does
> not mean that
> > they will take responsibility for your gerber files nor the
> design but it
> > does mean that if you left something "daggling" they will
> fix it and charge
> > you. So follow their instruction to the letter and you
> should get a very
> > nice PCB.
> >
> > Hope this helps everyone.
> > Steve Tatum
> >
> >
Original Message
> > From: Aaron [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=ZHuLvDzz-z8jLxzJof0Ed1HqIdyrJLqMzxaWAEvouLimSdywQlhFdWysM3lTXPgJNf_yyTC_ieUeqOnOBfo]snazzyguy2@y...[/url
> > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 4:04 PM
> > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Circuit Boards
> >
> >
> > Hello:
> >
> > I've been making my own circuit boards for a while now and have also
> > looked into having circuit boards made professionally both of these
> > options leave something to be desired (cost for small prototype runs
> > and having to drill all the holes yourself for the other). However I
> > have found that it would be quite feasible to make a larger run of
> > circuit boards.
> >
> > I was wondering what kind of interest there would be in moderatly
> > priced circuit boards available in both kit form as well as
> assembled
> > and tested. I currently envision a board with eight relays which
> > takes logic input, A serial output board that would use 7 data lines
> > for 32 outputs (6 for 24 5 for 12 or 4 for 8) which would be capable
> > of driving a high current load (500 ma). As well as simple
> > opto/isolated Mosfet H-bridge motor controller which would
> use 2 data
> > lines and be able to drive upto a 12 volt 4 Amp motor. I was
> > wondering what kind of interest there is out there for this kind of
> > thing.
> >
> > Thank You, Any input would be greatly appreciated
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in
> the Subject and
> > Body of the message will be ignored.
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in
> the Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
> Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
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>
>
>
>If I understand, you are proposing a board-buying group? Interesting -
>ganging boards is the method that the larger board houses use to get us
>those nice "low" prices on proto quantities. Advanced Circuit, for example
>will batch theirs together to fill their maximum panel size daily. At
>scheduled times, they image and run these full sheets at once.
Yes, but most of them still charge full tooling costs to their customers.
>As far as gathering and submitting these together, combining the files from
>several sources could be quite a data management task. Liability could run
>pretty high also - who would cover the cost of the occasional error?
>It sounds like a great idea in a perfect world, but perhaps it would be a
>bit too complicated to succeed.
No one said it would be easy. Maybe it is something for someone who wants
to start a business: offering this combining service and then get the boards
manufactured professionally. This person would have the group to sell all
prints to. So TRUST that all group members will buy the prints is essential.
As there are always persons outside the group that are willing to buy a
print (if they knew it existed and
does what they seek), the costs for the group members would drop even
further.
>My idea was to invest in the needed tools and processes. I can almost
>justify the expense now, but not quite. I thought that others might benefit
>from the lower costs while helping the idea break even, and hence be
>justifiable...
Wouldn't you put multiple designs on a single layout to downsize the tooling
costs?
Greetings peter
> > they handle errors in the Gerber files?
> > thanks,
> > Mike
>
They will check your files on THEIR Gerber viewer. Anything outside of their
min/max requirements will be flagged and they will fax back an image with
the errors circled. They do have great minimum air-gaps and annular ring
minimums that allow nice compact board design, however, their viewer does
not always see the file the same way mine does, for example, they require a
minimum annular ring to hole diameter oversize of 14 mils. I have designed
to 15 mils and their viewer sees these at times as 13 mils wider. As soon as
they find an error, they will reject your file and it will cost a one-day
delay. If you're not careful, these delays can add up. It is a fairly common
error to assume that they will identify all errors (not really errors, but
features that do not live up to their requirements)in one pass. You can
correct all the errors they fax to you, and they may find more on your
re-submission. I found that to be aggravating on the first board they did,
but I have since re-set my CAD defaults, and learned to check more myself.
It's not really fair to ask them to check my work. Now I can send a board to
them and get it done on schedule with the exception of the occasional Gerber
mis-reads on their end.
Yup, good people, and still the best deal.
BTW, Bruce, What CAD package are you using, if I may ask? It seems they see
your files the same way you do, and that interests me....
Chris
> your files the same way you do, and that interests me....
BoardMaker2 with my design-rules setup to Advanced Circuits design specs. I've
been using them for several years without a single bad prototype or large board
run
with multiple-ups. I use several CAD packages - just too lazy to convert years
of
hand-made footprints over....;o]
> I have had stray copper under their solder mask, and some really jagged trace
> edges and misregistration.
I've had similar problems with other board-houses, but never with Advanced
Circuits.
> I just paid $500+ to because I needed quicker delivery.
It does get pretty expensive when you're in a hurry, but that's fairly standard
with any
outfit. I don't work for Advance Circuits, just a happy customer. It's hard to
beat
protypes with all the extras for $33.00 each......
Best regards,
Bruce Reynolds
webmaster@r...
Reynolds Electronics
3101 Eastridge Lane
Canon City, Co. 81212
Phone: (719) 269-3469
Fax: (719) 276-2853
http://www.rentron.com
especially now with the down-sizing in the electronics economy. Good
quality work requires expensive equipment, account management, and
compliance with a host of environmental laws for handling of
chemicals and materials. It would be a mission to enter that market
as an "amateur" and really beat established prices over a long term.
Like many people here, I long ago lost interest in doing my own
printed circuit boards. I use http://www.APcircuits.com in Calgary
for quick prototypes, where the bill often comes back at less than
US$100 for a few small boards. And http://www.4pcb.com (advanced
circuits in Colorado) for production boards with soldermask,
break-apart panels etc. One thing I like about Advanced Circuits is
their online pricing engine. You can try out different panel sizes,
features, quantities and lead times and see the resulting price
breakdown within seconds.
-- Tracy
that has kept me from setting up my own electroless plating tank....
Thanks.
C
>
Original Message
> From: Webmaster@r... [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=cEKpCU5nLGDqJmTo4BsCs4NrIE1KOS08tNchw9dmceQJihXPxoXzxgrUGxAs-4nhS07zsXyiris]breyno2@r...[/url
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 12:48 PM
> To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Circuit Boards
>
>
>
> > BTW, Bruce, What CAD package are you using, if I may ask?
> It seems they see
> > your files the same way you do, and that interests me....
>
> BoardMaker2 with my design-rules setup to Advanced Circuits
> design specs. I've
> been using them for several years without a single bad
> prototype or large board run
> with multiple-ups. I use several CAD packages - just too lazy
> to convert years of
> hand-made footprints over....;o]
>
> > I have had stray copper under their solder mask, and some
> really jagged trace
> > edges and misregistration.
>
> I've had similar problems with other board-houses, but never
> with Advanced
> Circuits.
>
> > I just paid $500+ to because I needed quicker delivery.
>
> It does get pretty expensive when you're in a hurry, but
> that's fairly standard with any
> outfit. I don't work for Advance Circuits, just a happy
> customer. It's hard to beat
> protypes with all the extras for $33.00 each......
>
> Best regards,
>
> Bruce Reynolds
> webmaster@r...
>
> Reynolds Electronics
> 3101 Eastridge Lane
> Canon City, Co. 81212
> Phone: (719) 269-3469
> Fax: (719) 276-2853
> http://www.rentron.com
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
> Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Even though I am not the one that was inquiring about the circuit boards,
thank you for that web site. At that price it would not be worth the hassle
to make my own boards anymore. I take it these are professionally made
boards from the specs I saw on the web site.
The only reason I can see for doing any circuit board myself would be a
simple one that I needed immediately for testing. But if the turnaround is
one to two weeks I would have to think long and hard even in that case.
Again, many thanks for this information.
Randy Abernathy
4626 Old Stilesboro Road NW
Acworth, GA 30101-4066
Phone/Fax: 770-974-5295
E-mail: cnc002@a...
We service, install and repair industrial woodworking machinery,
specializing in SCM / SCMI machinery
[noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Hi,
>
> >If I understand, you are proposing a board-buying group? Interesting -
> >ganging boards is the method that the larger board houses use to get us
> >those nice "low" prices on proto quantities. Advanced Circuit, for example
> >will batch theirs together to fill their maximum panel size daily. At
> >scheduled times, they image and run these full sheets at once.
>
>Yes, but most of them still charge full tooling costs to their customers.
>
> >As far as gathering and submitting these together, combining the files from
> >several sources could be quite a data management task. Liability could run
> >pretty high also - who would cover the cost of the occasional error?
> >It sounds like a great idea in a perfect world, but perhaps it would be a
> >bit too complicated to succeed.
>
>No one said it would be easy. Maybe it is something for someone who wants
>to start a business: offering this combining service and then get the boards
>manufactured professionally. This person would have the group to sell all
>prints to. So TRUST that all group members will buy the prints is essential.
>As there are always persons outside the group that are willing to buy a
>print (if they knew it existed and
>does what they seek), the costs for the group members would drop even
>further.
>
> >My idea was to invest in the needed tools and processes. I can almost
> >justify the expense now, but not quite. I thought that others might benefit
> >from the lower costs while helping the idea break even, and hence be
> >justifiable...
>
>Wouldn't you put multiple designs on a single layout to downsize the tooling
>costs?
>
>Greetings peter
This is very similar to the process of designing test IC's on a wafer.
The process is controlled on a scheduled basis. Every 2 months or so
there is a "tape-out" where the chips are sent back to the designer if
the designer submitted his/her design within the scheduled window.
Test IC's usually are very simple designs meant to test the parameters
of a new layout or device configuration. i.e. The performance
characteristics of fingered capacitors vs. stacked/layered capacitors.
This method could work with boards if, instead you waited until a "lot"
was completed before submission. Tooling could be simplified if everyone
worked from pre-determined board sizes (perhaps a few available sizes to
choose from). With IC's you would select an available package size to
meet your requirements.
Using this method, waiting until a "lot" was filled, would indicate
that this type of service would not necessarily be pressed for quick
turn-around.
Beau Schwabe IC Mask Designer
National Semiconductor Wired Communications Division
500 Pinnacle Court, Suite 525 Mail Stop GA1 Norcross, GA 30071
> Like many people here, I long ago lost interest in doing my own
> printed circuit boards. I use http://www.APcircuits.com in Calgary
> for quick prototypes, where the bill often comes back at less than
> US$100 for a few small boards. And http://www.4pcb.com (advanced
> circuits in Colorado) for production boards with soldermask,
> break-apart panels etc. One thing I like about Advanced Circuits is
> their online pricing engine. You can try out different panel sizes,
> features, quantities and lead times and see the resulting price
> breakdown within seconds.
So does apcircuits.
Sean T. Lamont, CTO / Chief NetNerd, Abstract Software, Inc. (ServNet)
Seattle - Bellingham - Vancouver - Portland - Everett - Tacoma - Bremerton
email: lamont@a... WWW: http://www.serv.net
"...There's no moral, it's just a lot of stuff that happens". - H. Simpson
I've had similar experience with APC and Express. Once you get to know how
they handle your files, future jobs seem to go smoothly. Thanks again for
the information. I still want to try them out.
regards,
Mike
At 12:19 PM 8/17/2001 -0400, you wrote:
> How do
> > > they handle errors in the Gerber files?
> > > thanks,
> > > Mike
> >
>They will check your files on THEIR Gerber viewer. Anything outside of their
>min/max requirements will be flagged and they will fax back an image with
>the errors circled. They do have great minimum air-gaps and annular ring
>minimums that allow nice compact board design, however, their viewer does
>not always see the file the same way mine does, for example, they require a
>minimum annular ring to hole diameter oversize of 14 mils. I have designed
>to 15 mils and their viewer sees these at times as 13 mils wider. As soon as
>they find an error, they will reject your file and it will cost a one-day
>delay. If you're not careful, these delays can add up. It is a fairly common
>error to assume that they will identify all errors (not really errors, but
>features that do not live up to their requirements)in one pass. You can
>correct all the errors they fax to you, and they may find more on your
>re-submission. I found that to be aggravating on the first board they did,
>but I have since re-set my CAD defaults, and learned to check more myself.
>It's not really fair to ask them to check my work. Now I can send a board to
>them and get it done on schedule with the exception of the occasional Gerber
>mis-reads on their end.
>Yup, good people, and still the best deal.
>
>
>BTW, Bruce, What CAD package are you using, if I may ask? It seems they see
>your files the same way you do, and that interests me....
>
>Chris
>
>
>
>To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
>Body of the message will be ignored.
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
_________________________________
Mike Walsh
walsh@i...
> Bruce:
>
> Even though I am not the one that was inquiring about the circuit boards,
> thank you for that web site. At that price it would not be worth the hassle
> to make my own boards anymore. I take it these are professionally made
> boards from the specs I saw on the web site.
I agree, and yes - they are top quality boards. Hard to beleive at $33.00 each,
but they are just like full production boards you would normally get from
Advance
Circuits.
Here's a photo of the last prototype boards I received from Advanced Circuits
http://www.rentron.com/images/proto.jpg using the $33.00 each deal...
> The only reason I can see for doing any circuit board myself would be a
> simple one that I needed immediately for testing. But if the turnaround is
> one to two weeks I would have to think long and hard even in that case.
I'm in Colorado [noparse][[/noparse] same state as Advanced Circuits ], and I have received all
20+ prototype boards several days ahead of schedule since they started the
$33.00 each promotional deal.
> Again, many thanks for this information.
You're very welcome. It may not be the answer for everyone, but it's sure
working
for me...;o]
Regards,
-Bruce
webmaster@r...
http://www.rentron.com
Original Message
> From: Chris Loiacono [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=fz9S3yBWm3-jCVOv5a3X4p2LuWemYGbvmyax1CUafydaDOEFYjPZ9lRMM23IMhyiSWJetnuzNxd8IhU]chris@m...[/urlOn Behalf Of Chris
> Loiacono (E-mail 3)
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 4:50 PM
> To: 'basicstamps@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Circuit Boards
>
>
> Bruce, nice desk! No, really, nice board set. What is it?
> Chris
>
> >
Original Message
> > From: Webmaster@r... [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=5SqTLQaNeSgsZA9L_sCSF-dl-3A6HctCtgM1y5Kv3_HUHmIQJ9l8Q-W4crzFocOUtlza-Is]breyno2@r...[/url
> > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 4:12 PM
> > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Circuit Boards
> >
> >
> > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Circuit Boards
> >
> >
> > > Bruce:
> > >
> > > Even though I am not the one that was inquiring about the
> > circuit boards,
> > > thank you for that web site. At that price it would not be
> > worth the hassle
> > > to make my own boards anymore. I take it these are
> > professionally made
> > > boards from the specs I saw on the web site.
> >
> > I agree, and yes - they are top quality boards. Hard to
> > beleive at $33.00 each,
> > but they are just like full production boards you would
> > normally get from Advance
> > Circuits.
> >
> > Here's a photo of the last prototype boards I received from
> > Advanced Circuits
> > http://www.rentron.com/images/proto.jpg using the $33.00
> each deal...
> >
> > > The only reason I can see for doing any circuit board
> > myself would be a
> > > simple one that I needed immediately for testing. But if
> > the turnaround is
> > > one to two weeks I would have to think long and hard even
> > in that case.
> >
> > I'm in Colorado [noparse][[/noparse] same state as Advanced Circuits ], and I
> > have received all
> > 20+ prototype boards several days ahead of schedule since
> > they started the
> > $33.00 each promotional deal.
> >
> > > Again, many thanks for this information.
> >
> > You're very welcome. It may not be the answer for everyone,
> > but it's sure working
> > for me...;o]
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > -Bruce
> > webmaster@r...
> > http://www.rentron.com
> >
> >
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
> > Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> > Bruce, nice desk! No, really, nice board set. What is it?
Flash based 8051 development board with plug-in prototyping
modules similar to PC104 stackable boards. Have one exactly the
same for the PIC. Both are programmable directly from the
serial port using flash microcontrollers [noparse][[/noparse]no programmer required].
PIC uses a boot-loader, 8051 uses free flash programming software
available from the Philips web site. #3 will be a BS2, and all will
look just like this one, but with different controller cores.
Regards,
-Bruce
webmaster@r...
http://www.rentron.com
>> their online pricing engine. You can try out different panel sizes,
>> features, quantities and lead times and see the resulting price
>> breakdown within seconds.
>
>So does apcircuits.
True, it is easy to calculate the cost of a board from AP circuits,
because it is simply based on a board area times cost per square
inch, plus fixed setup fee, plus shipping. Last time I looked they
were still making written, not online, estimates for production work
with legend, mask etc. I found that their pricing was not so good in
that area--quick turn unmasked boards are their specialty.
The costing at Advanced circuits is much more complicated, but they
do it all online, instantly. I have had to call them a few times to
ask about how to enter some kinds of data, but their staff is very
knowledgeable and helpful. There are a lot more options when you add
the legend and mask layers, different forms of plating, and internal
routing points, step-and-repeat, breakaway tabs etc. etc. The cost
per square inch is usually less when you order a given area of small
boards or panels (down to a point where the loss of material from
routing out the boards is a big factor). When you ask for larger
boards or panels with the same total area, they factor in the waste
that comes from fitting them on the large panels that they run
through their equipment. Sometimes a small change in the size or
shape of a panel can make quite a difference in the total cost. The
online quote engine lets you experiment with the tradeoffs.
When a board is going to an assembly house for wave soldering or for
pick-and-place, they do not want to deal with a pile of small boards.
It is much easier to work with panels with the small boards still
attached with tabs or scoring for later separation. That adds quite
a bit to the fabrication setup cost, but cuts the assembly cost
tremendously later.
BTW, having visited Parallax factory a couple of times, I have seen
that they do most of the Stamp assembly in-house, with their own pick
and place and reflow equipment. They recently acquired a fantastic
new pick-and-place machine that can handle the fine pitch of the
SX48 chip that they use on the Stamp2P.
-- Tracy
-- Tracy