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H-Bridge Isolating — Parallax Forums

H-Bridge Isolating

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2001-09-12 04:31 in General Discussion
I'm making an H-bridge out of mosfets for one of my projects I was
wondering if a 7407 buffer is sufficient to isolate the circuit from
damaging my stamp or should I go full out and use opto-Isolation any
experience or theores on this would be greatly appreciated

Thank You

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-08-16 07:02
    I'd personally go with opto-isolation for any higher powered motors.
    On my sumo robot, the motors ran at 24v, and took about 1 amp stall..
    I've fried a basic stamp tottaly, and damaged some pins on another
    when my l298 burnt out (the motors where really nasty, so it was the
    power spikes (emf) that did 'em in).. I didn't have any isolation.

    for apps with smaller power motors (I'd say less than 9 volts, less
    than 250mA stall sort of thing) you could probably get away only with
    a buffer, or even nothing (provided your motor driver
    doesn't 'release trapped smoke' (aka burn out))

    One good thing to remember for controlling motors, is that it is
    better safe than sorry. Build in spike protection, have your drivers
    rated for higher voltage and amperage than your motors will take..

    Hope that helps..

    ~Roger~
    TenFour



    --- In basicstamps@y..., wooticity@y... wrote:
    > I'm making an H-bridge out of mosfets for one of my projects I was
    > wondering if a 7407 buffer is sufficient to isolate the circuit
    from
    > damaging my stamp or should I go full out and use opto-Isolation
    any
    > experience or theores on this would be greatly appreciated
    >
    > Thank You
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-08-16 16:08
    It is also very important that there be a bit of logic between the
    stamp and the bridge that absolutely, positively, prevents the upper
    and lower transistors from turning on at the same time.

    Using MOSFETS is a much better way to go than bipolar, much lower on
    resistance. By using MOSFETS in your H bridge the transistors will
    not run hot, and more power will make it to the load.

    Turning on the low side driver is not a problem. Turning on the high
    side driver is a bit nmore difficult. The MOSFET gate requires a
    higher voltage than the voltage you switch. The answer here is a
    MOSFET H-bridge driver IC. It has all the logic in it to prevent
    damage to the bridge. Also on the chip: charge pumps to properly turn
    on the high-side drivers. I would not do this without MOSFETS and the
    MOSFET H-bridge driver IC. There are H-bridge driver chips that have
    serial inputs. These easily interface to your stamp.

    Regards

    Rich
    AA2DN



    --- In basicstamps@y..., wooticity@y... wrote:
    > I'm making an H-bridge out of mosfets for one of my projects I was
    > wondering if a 7407 buffer is sufficient to isolate the circuit
    from
    > damaging my stamp or should I go full out and use opto-Isolation
    any
    > experience or theores on this would be greatly appreciated
    >
    > Thank You
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-08-16 20:25
    Are you refering to Mosfet bridges that use N-channels for the high
    side?

    If you use P-channel mosfets for the top side*, you don't need a
    higher switching voltage (it'll act like a regular pnp/npn h-bridge,
    and the overall design is easier)), although a driver that turns the
    gate on quickly (to prevent it passing through linear mode for too
    long) is a good idea.. I use the TC4427, which is a nice dual mosfet
    driver IC. All you do is put the driver between the mosfet's gate and
    logic signal. To prevent the high and low side mosfets from turning
    on at the same time, I just connect the gates of the higher and lower
    mosfets on a half bridge togethor (or rather the inputs for the
    drivers that connect to the gates) togethor, since one will turn on
    with a logic low, and the other with a logic high. But this is not
    the ideal set up if you're using PWM...

    * P-channel mosfets are indeed harder to find, and more expensive,
    but they're not that bad. I got mine from digikey, as they have a
    wide selection. I use the IRF9540 and the IRF540 togethor..


    ~Roger~
    TenFour


    --- In basicstamps@y..., iceninevt@y... wrote:
    > It is also very important that there be a bit of logic between the
    > stamp and the bridge that absolutely, positively, prevents the
    upper
    > and lower transistors from turning on at the same time.
    >
    > Using MOSFETS is a much better way to go than bipolar, much lower
    on
    > resistance. By using MOSFETS in your H bridge the transistors will
    > not run hot, and more power will make it to the load.
    >
    > Turning on the low side driver is not a problem. Turning on the
    high
    > side driver is a bit nmore difficult. The MOSFET gate requires a
    > higher voltage than the voltage you switch. The answer here is a
    > MOSFET H-bridge driver IC. It has all the logic in it to prevent
    > damage to the bridge. Also on the chip: charge pumps to properly
    turn
    > on the high-side drivers. I would not do this without MOSFETS and
    the
    > MOSFET H-bridge driver IC. There are H-bridge driver chips that
    have
    > serial inputs. These easily interface to your stamp.
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Rich
    > AA2DN
    >
    >
    >
    > --- In basicstamps@y..., wooticity@y... wrote:
    > > I'm making an H-bridge out of mosfets for one of my projects I
    was
    > > wondering if a 7407 buffer is sufficient to isolate the circuit
    > from
    > > damaging my stamp or should I go full out and use opto-Isolation
    > any
    > > experience or theores on this would be greatly appreciated
    > >
    > > Thank You
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-08-16 21:54
    So if I use tc4427 should I still use an opto-Isolator for the
    inputs into it on the output of it or is an opto-isolator no longer
    neccesary?

    Thank you for all of your help


    --- In basicstamps@y..., "Roger K" <korus@i...> wrote:
    > Are you refering to Mosfet bridges that use N-channels for the high
    > side?
    >
    > If you use P-channel mosfets for the top side*, you don't need a
    > higher switching voltage (it'll act like a regular pnp/npn h-
    bridge,
    > and the overall design is easier)), although a driver that turns
    the
    > gate on quickly (to prevent it passing through linear mode for too
    > long) is a good idea.. I use the TC4427, which is a nice dual
    mosfet
    > driver IC. All you do is put the driver between the mosfet's gate
    and
    > logic signal. To prevent the high and low side mosfets from turning
    > on at the same time, I just connect the gates of the higher and
    lower
    > mosfets on a half bridge togethor (or rather the inputs for the
    > drivers that connect to the gates) togethor, since one will turn on
    > with a logic low, and the other with a logic high. But this is not
    > the ideal set up if you're using PWM...
    >
    > * P-channel mosfets are indeed harder to find, and more expensive,
    > but they're not that bad. I got mine from digikey, as they have a
    > wide selection. I use the IRF9540 and the IRF540 togethor..
    >
    >
    > ~Roger~
    > TenFour
    >
    >
    > --- In basicstamps@y..., iceninevt@y... wrote:
    > > It is also very important that there be a bit of logic between
    the
    > > stamp and the bridge that absolutely, positively, prevents the
    > upper
    > > and lower transistors from turning on at the same time.
    > >
    > > Using MOSFETS is a much better way to go than bipolar, much lower
    > on
    > > resistance. By using MOSFETS in your H bridge the transistors
    will
    > > not run hot, and more power will make it to the load.
    > >
    > > Turning on the low side driver is not a problem. Turning on the
    > high
    > > side driver is a bit nmore difficult. The MOSFET gate requires a
    > > higher voltage than the voltage you switch. The answer here is a
    > > MOSFET H-bridge driver IC. It has all the logic in it to prevent
    > > damage to the bridge. Also on the chip: charge pumps to properly
    > turn
    > > on the high-side drivers. I would not do this without MOSFETS and
    > the
    > > MOSFET H-bridge driver IC. There are H-bridge driver chips that
    > have
    > > serial inputs. These easily interface to your stamp.
    > >
    > > Regards
    > >
    > > Rich
    > > AA2DN
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > --- In basicstamps@y..., wooticity@y... wrote:
    > > > I'm making an H-bridge out of mosfets for one of my projects I
    > was
    > > > wondering if a 7407 buffer is sufficient to isolate the circuit
    > > from
    > > > damaging my stamp or should I go full out and use opto-
    Isolation
    > > any
    > > > experience or theores on this would be greatly appreciated
    > > >
    > > > Thank You
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-08-16 22:39
    Unfortunatley, I'm not sure. None of my mosfet h-bridges have burnt
    out to test it [noparse]:)[/noparse] I use mosfets rated at 100v and 19 amps, but my
    motors are running at 7.2 volts and about 4 amps stall (which is
    incredibly hard to do), so I've got a good safety zone. I guess if
    you do the same and get mosfets rated for much higher than your
    motors will take, your bridge shouldn't burn out, so the opto-
    isolation would not be neccesary.

    The TC4427 is a buffer/driver, so you could probably get away with
    just using that... I suggest checking out the datasheet.. It has some
    usefull information on it (like how much reverse current it can take,
    spike voltages, etc.)

    http://www.telcom-semi.com/products/datasheets/tc4426_8.pdf

    ~Roger~
    TenFour

    --- In basicstamps@y..., wooticity@y... wrote:
    > So if I use tc4427 should I still use an opto-Isolator for the
    > inputs into it on the output of it or is an opto-isolator no longer
    > neccesary?
    >
    > Thank you for all of your help
    >
    >
    > --- In basicstamps@y..., "Roger K" <korus@i...> wrote:
    > > Are you refering to Mosfet bridges that use N-channels for the
    high
    > > side?
    > >
    > > If you use P-channel mosfets for the top side*, you don't need a
    > > higher switching voltage (it'll act like a regular pnp/npn h-
    > bridge,
    > > and the overall design is easier)), although a driver that turns
    > the
    > > gate on quickly (to prevent it passing through linear mode for
    too
    > > long) is a good idea.. I use the TC4427, which is a nice dual
    > mosfet
    > > driver IC. All you do is put the driver between the mosfet's gate
    > and
    > > logic signal. To prevent the high and low side mosfets from
    turning
    > > on at the same time, I just connect the gates of the higher and
    > lower
    > > mosfets on a half bridge togethor (or rather the inputs for the
    > > drivers that connect to the gates) togethor, since one will turn
    on
    > > with a logic low, and the other with a logic high. But this is
    not
    > > the ideal set up if you're using PWM...
    > >
    > > * P-channel mosfets are indeed harder to find, and more
    expensive,
    > > but they're not that bad. I got mine from digikey, as they have a
    > > wide selection. I use the IRF9540 and the IRF540 togethor..
    > >
    > >
    > > ~Roger~
    > > TenFour
    > >
    > >
    > > --- In basicstamps@y..., iceninevt@y... wrote:
    > > > It is also very important that there be a bit of logic between
    > the
    > > > stamp and the bridge that absolutely, positively, prevents the
    > > upper
    > > > and lower transistors from turning on at the same time.
    > > >
    > > > Using MOSFETS is a much better way to go than bipolar, much
    lower
    > > on
    > > > resistance. By using MOSFETS in your H bridge the transistors
    > will
    > > > not run hot, and more power will make it to the load.
    > > >
    > > > Turning on the low side driver is not a problem. Turning on
    the
    > > high
    > > > side driver is a bit nmore difficult. The MOSFET gate requires
    a
    > > > higher voltage than the voltage you switch. The answer here is
    a
    > > > MOSFET H-bridge driver IC. It has all the logic in it to
    prevent
    > > > damage to the bridge. Also on the chip: charge pumps to
    properly
    > > turn
    > > > on the high-side drivers. I would not do this without MOSFETS
    and
    > > the
    > > > MOSFET H-bridge driver IC. There are H-bridge driver chips that
    > > have
    > > > serial inputs. These easily interface to your stamp.
    > > >
    > > > Regards
    > > >
    > > > Rich
    > > > AA2DN
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > --- In basicstamps@y..., wooticity@y... wrote:
    > > > > I'm making an H-bridge out of mosfets for one of my projects
    I
    > > was
    > > > > wondering if a 7407 buffer is sufficient to isolate the
    circuit
    > > > from
    > > > > damaging my stamp or should I go full out and use opto-
    > Isolation
    > > > any
    > > > > experience or theores on this would be greatly appreciated
    > > > >
    > > > > Thank You
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-09-12 02:32
    Can you suggest a good H bridge driver as you suggest. I need to switch + and
    - 50 volts DC at about 2 amps. Thanks
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-09-12 04:31
    Might want to insult Alegro's site -- they have a couple of drivers with
    those ratings.

    http://www.allegromicro.com/selguide/motors1.htm

    Original Message


    > Can you suggest a good H bridge driver as you suggest. I need to switch +
    and
    > - 50 volts DC at about 2 amps. Thanks
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