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long wire problems using DS1820 and BS2P — Parallax Forums

long wire problems using DS1820 and BS2P

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2001-07-21 17:30 in General Discussion
> Hi all,
>
> I'm using a BS2P and a DS1820 temperature sensor. On the workbench (with
> short cables) it works perfect, however when I connect the DS1820 on a
> cable of about 20 metres, it's not working at all !!! The cable that i'm
> using is a UTP cat5 cable. I'm not using the parasite power feature of the
> DS1820 and i'm powering the DS1820 by using one wire for the +5V.
>
> I've been searching for weeks now, i've read all the related documents of
> Dallas semiconductor but nothing seems to work with the longer cables.
>
> Does someone have experience with the DS1820, BS2P and quite long cables?
> Is there a way to solve this problem?
>
> I really hope someone can help me with this
>
> Many thanks to all
>
> Wilbert

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-07-20 18:06
    Hi Wilbert,

    I'll soon use this kind of temperature sensor to control my central heating
    system.
    I think you should use shielded cable. The UTP is not shielded. I know it
    works for networks, but maybe with differential signals (I'm not sure it's
    differential).
    Hope this is the track to the solution...

    Phil.

    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] long wire problems using DS1820 and BS2P


    >
    > > Hi all,
    > >
    > > I'm using a BS2P and a DS1820 temperature sensor. On the workbench (with
    > > short cables) it works perfect, however when I connect the DS1820 on a
    > > cable of about 20 metres, it's not working at all !!! The cable that i'm
    > > using is a UTP cat5 cable. I'm not using the parasite power feature of
    the
    > > DS1820 and i'm powering the DS1820 by using one wire for the +5V.
    > >
    > > I've been searching for weeks now, i've read all the related documents
    of
    > > Dallas semiconductor but nothing seems to work with the longer cables.
    > >
    > > Does someone have experience with the DS1820, BS2P and quite long
    cables?
    > > Is there a way to solve this problem?
    > >
    > > I really hope someone can help me with this
    > >
    > > Many thanks to all
    > >
    > > Wilbert
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-07-20 18:57
    Hi Phil,

    Thanks for your fast reply. The problem is that the cables are
    already installed in my house and i've no possibility to change them.

    Best regards

    Wilbert

    --- In basicstamps@y..., "Philippe Derenne" <derennep@s...> wrote:
    > Hi Wilbert,
    >
    > I'll soon use this kind of temperature sensor to control my central
    heating
    > system.
    > I think you should use shielded cable. The UTP is not shielded. I
    know it
    > works for networks, but maybe with differential signals (I'm not
    sure it's
    > differential).
    > Hope this is the track to the solution...
    >
    > Phil.
    >
    > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] long wire problems using DS1820 and BS2P
    >
    >
    > >
    > > > Hi all,
    > > >
    > > > I'm using a BS2P and a DS1820 temperature sensor. On the
    workbench (with
    > > > short cables) it works perfect, however when I connect the
    DS1820 on a
    > > > cable of about 20 metres, it's not working at all !!! The cable
    that i'm
    > > > using is a UTP cat5 cable. I'm not using the parasite power
    feature of
    > the
    > > > DS1820 and i'm powering the DS1820 by using one wire for the
    +5V.
    > > >
    > > > I've been searching for weeks now, i've read all the related
    documents
    > of
    > > > Dallas semiconductor but nothing seems to work with the longer
    cables.
    > > >
    > > > Does someone have experience with the DS1820, BS2P and quite
    long
    > cables?
    > > > Is there a way to solve this problem?
    > > >
    > > > I really hope someone can help me with this
    > > >
    > > > Many thanks to all
    > > >
    > > > Wilbert
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-07-20 20:33
    At 5:44 PM +0100 7/20/01, wilbert.ingels@l... wrote:
    > > Hi all,
    >>
    >> I'm using a BS2P and a DS1820 temperature sensor. On the workbench (with
    >> short cables) it works perfect, however when I connect the DS1820 on a
    >> cable of about 20 metres, it's not working at all !!! The cable that i'm
    >> using is a UTP cat5 cable. I'm not using the parasite power feature of the
    >> DS1820 and i'm powering the DS1820 by using one wire for the +5V.
    >>
    >> I've been searching for weeks now, i've read all the related documents of
    >> Dallas semiconductor but nothing seems to work with the longer cables.
    >>
    >> Does someone have experience with the DS1820, BS2P and quite long cables?
    >> Is there a way to solve this problem?
    >>
    >> I really hope someone can help me with this
    >>
    >> Many thanks to all
    >>
    >
    > > Wilbert

    The signals used in 1-wire protocol are very fast (~50 microseconds)
    and use a passive pullup for the high state. The capacitance of the
    cable slows the signal down. The signals is comparable to a weak
    20kbaud RS232. One-wire is not really meant for long cables, and
    it really surprises me that they promote it for that kind of network.

    That said, you can try to speed up the transitions by using the
    lowest possible resistance for the pullup resistor.

    -- best regards
    Tracy Allen
    electronically monitored ecosystems
    http://www.emesystems.com
    mailto:tracy@e...
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-07-20 20:57
    Hi Tracy,

    If you look at the Dallas semiconductor sheets, they even promote the
    1-wire protocol that it can be used for lengths more than 200
    meters ?!
    I will try with a stronger pull up resistor and will let you know if
    it works.

    Thanks a lot for the good advice !!!!

    Wilbert


    --- In basicstamps@y..., Tracy Allen <tracy@e...> wrote:
    > At 5:44 PM +0100 7/20/01, wilbert.ingels@l... wrote:
    > > > Hi all,
    > >>
    > >> I'm using a BS2P and a DS1820 temperature sensor. On the
    workbench (with
    > >> short cables) it works perfect, however when I connect the
    DS1820 on a
    > >> cable of about 20 metres, it's not working at all !!! The cable
    that i'm
    > >> using is a UTP cat5 cable. I'm not using the parasite power
    feature of the
    > >> DS1820 and i'm powering the DS1820 by using one wire for the +5V.
    > >>
    > >> I've been searching for weeks now, i've read all the related
    documents of
    > >> Dallas semiconductor but nothing seems to work with the longer
    cables.
    > >>
    > >> Does someone have experience with the DS1820, BS2P and quite
    long cables?
    > >> Is there a way to solve this problem?
    > >>
    > >> I really hope someone can help me with this
    > >>
    > >> Many thanks to all
    > >>
    > >
    > > > Wilbert
    >
    > The signals used in 1-wire protocol are very fast (~50
    microseconds)
    > and use a passive pullup for the high state. The capacitance of the
    > cable slows the signal down. The signals is comparable to a weak
    > 20kbaud RS232. One-wire is not really meant for long cables,
    and
    > it really surprises me that they promote it for that kind of
    network.
    >
    > That said, you can try to speed up the transitions by using the
    > lowest possible resistance for the pullup resistor.
    >
    > -- best regards
    > Tracy Allen
    > electronically monitored ecosystems
    > http://www.emesystems.com
    > mailto:tracy@e...
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-07-20 20:57
    At 15:33 07/20/01, Tracy Allen wrote:
    >At 5:44 PM +0100 7/20/01, wilbert.ingels@l... wrote:
    > > > Hi all,
    > >>
    > >> I'm using a BS2P and a DS1820 temperature sensor. On the workbench (with
    > >> short cables) it works perfect, however when I connect the DS1820 on a
    > >> cable of about 20 metres, it's not working at all !!! The cable that i'm
    > >> using is a UTP cat5 cable. I'm not using the parasite power feature of the
    > >> DS1820 and i'm powering the DS1820 by using one wire for the +5V.
    > >>
    > >> I've been searching for weeks now, i've read all the related documents of
    > >> Dallas semiconductor but nothing seems to work with the longer cables.
    > >>
    > >> Does someone have experience with the DS1820, BS2P and quite long cables?
    > >> Is there a way to solve this problem?
    >
    >The signals used in 1-wire protocol are very fast (~50 microseconds)
    >and use a passive pullup for the high state. The capacitance of the
    >cable slows the signal down. The signals is comparable to a weak
    >20kbaud RS232. One-wire is not really meant for long cables, and
    >it really surprises me that they promote it for that kind of network.
    >
    >That said, you can try to speed up the transitions by using the
    >lowest possible resistance for the pullup resistor.

    You *might* also use a pair of resistors (or a pot) as a divider, as
    diagrammed below, to place the voltage closer to the transition
    point. Select the resistors to just barely, but reliably, pull the pin to
    a high state. Works great for TTL at several MHz, but I really don't know
    much about 1-wire stuff.


    R1 R2
    +V ---/\/\/\/\/\---|--\/\/\/\/\/\/--- 0V
    |
    |
    | to pin to be "pulled up."


    Jim H
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-07-21 05:44
    The problem is the RC time constant causes the pulses to expotentialy
    rise and fall. The R is fixed at 4.7K and as you add more cable, you
    add more C.

    Philips has a P82B715 bidirectional current amplifier which was
    intended for use with their I2C devices. I have used a pair of
    these, one at the processor, the other at some distant point and have
    communicated with the DS1820 over distances of 1000 feet (not with a
    BS2P). However, I do share Tracy's thoughts on such distances.
    Great for an experiment, but I wouldn't bet the house.

    The idea of the current amplifier is as noted by Tracy. I was able
    to reduce the R to 200 Ohms and thus tolerate that much more C.

    Peter H Anderson, http://www.phanderson.com

    --- In basicstamps@y..., wilbert.ingels@l... wrote:
    >
    > > Hi all,
    > >
    > > I'm using a BS2P and a DS1820 temperature sensor. On the
    workbench (with
    > > short cables) it works perfect, however when I connect the DS1820
    on a
    > > cable of about 20 metres, it's not working at all !!! The cable
    that i'm
    > > using is a UTP cat5 cable. I'm not using the parasite power
    feature of the
    > > DS1820 and i'm powering the DS1820 by using one wire for the +5V.
    > >
    > > I've been searching for weeks now, i've read all the related
    documents of
    > > Dallas semiconductor but nothing seems to work with the longer
    cables.
    > >
    > > Does someone have experience with the DS1820, BS2P and quite long
    cables?
    > > Is there a way to solve this problem?
    > >
    > > I really hope someone can help me with this
    > >
    > > Many thanks to all
    > >
    > > Wilbert
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-07-21 17:30
    Hi all,

    Thanks a lot for the advices and yes, the RC time constant was the
    problem !!! I've reduced the value of the pull up resistor and it is
    working now. I'm using 6 DS1820 around my house and on some lines, i
    had to reduce the resistor below 2K (on 1 line, i've installed a
    resistor of 1.2K)

    Soo many thanks to all for the very good advices !!!!

    Best regards

    Wilbert

    --- In basicstamps@y..., pha@p... wrote:
    >
    > The problem is the RC time constant causes the pulses to
    expotentialy
    > rise and fall. The R is fixed at 4.7K and as you add more cable,
    you
    > add more C.
    >
    > Philips has a P82B715 bidirectional current amplifier which was
    > intended for use with their I2C devices. I have used a pair of
    > these, one at the processor, the other at some distant point and
    have
    > communicated with the DS1820 over distances of 1000 feet (not with
    a
    > BS2P). However, I do share Tracy's thoughts on such distances.
    > Great for an experiment, but I wouldn't bet the house.
    >
    > The idea of the current amplifier is as noted by Tracy. I was able
    > to reduce the R to 200 Ohms and thus tolerate that much more C.
    >
    > Peter H Anderson, http://www.phanderson.com
    >
    > --- In basicstamps@y..., wilbert.ingels@l... wrote:
    > >
    > > > Hi all,
    > > >
    > > > I'm using a BS2P and a DS1820 temperature sensor. On the
    > workbench (with
    > > > short cables) it works perfect, however when I connect the
    DS1820
    > on a
    > > > cable of about 20 metres, it's not working at all !!! The cable
    > that i'm
    > > > using is a UTP cat5 cable. I'm not using the parasite power
    > feature of the
    > > > DS1820 and i'm powering the DS1820 by using one wire for the
    +5V.
    > > >
    > > > I've been searching for weeks now, i've read all the related
    > documents of
    > > > Dallas semiconductor but nothing seems to work with the longer
    > cables.
    > > >
    > > > Does someone have experience with the DS1820, BS2P and quite
    long
    > cables?
    > > > Is there a way to solve this problem?
    > > >
    > > > I really hope someone can help me with this
    > > >
    > > > Many thanks to all
    > > >
    > > > Wilbert
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