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To Eagle users

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2001-06-26 21:48 in General Discussion
Hi Stampers,

I'm using Eagle Layout Editor for differents projects. As I make double
sided prints on my own, it's sometimes difficult to align both sides.
It would be easier if the vias where a little larger. I can't find a way to
define the vias diameter. Maybe somebody on the list would help me ?

On the other hand, I made a library containing the BS2-IC and the BS2-SX. As
I've seen demands about that, I can post it as attachement, or send it to
personnal addresses. Let me know the best way to do that without creating
problems on the list...

Thanks

Phil.

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-20 20:24
    On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Philippe Derenne wrote:

    > Hi Stampers,
    >
    > I'm using Eagle Layout Editor for differents projects. As I make double
    > sided prints on my own, it's sometimes difficult to align both sides.
    > It would be easier if the vias where a little larger. I can't find a way to
    > define the vias diameter. Maybe somebody on the list would help me ?

    There are two ways to do this:

    1) Change the via setting in the autoroute. When you do autoroute it gives
    you a number of parameters including trace width, minimum distance between
    traces, etc.

    2) Go to the via when it's done routing and use the change width tool ; I
    think it has a little wrench on it or something. Other than that you can
    use the manual directive, which is I think "change diameter"

    Good luck.


    >
    > On the other hand, I made a library containing the BS2-IC and the BS2-SX. As
    > I've seen demands about that, I can post it as attachement, or send it to
    > personnal addresses. Let me know the best way to do that without creating
    > problems on the list...
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    > Phil.
    >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >

    Sean T. Lamont, CTO / Chief NetNerd, Abstract Software, Inc. (ServNet)
    Seattle - Bellingham - Vancouver - Portland - Everett - Tacoma - Bremerton
    email: lamont@a... WWW: http://www.serv.net
    "...There's no moral, it's just a lot of stuff that happens". - H. Simpson
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-20 22:16
    Use Express PCB. You can make the holes any size you want up to .125

    Sid
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-20 22:42
    [font=arial,helvetica]I can explain how to do what you want, but it would be easier if you could
    call me.
    888-920-7746.
    i would like to get your files.[/font]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-20 22:53
    i would love the libaries if you wuld like to send/post em.

    and sorry i cant help you with the vias as im still struggleing myself.

    Regards

    Peter Rogers
    Original Message
    From: "Philippe Derenne" <derennep@s...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 3:50 AM
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] To Eagle users


    > Hi Stampers,
    >
    > I'm using Eagle Layout Editor for differents projects. As I make double
    > sided prints on my own, it's sometimes difficult to align both sides.
    > It would be easier if the vias where a little larger. I can't find a way
    to
    > define the vias diameter. Maybe somebody on the list would help me ?
    >
    > On the other hand, I made a library containing the BS2-IC and the BS2-SX.
    As
    > I've seen demands about that, I can post it as attachement, or send it to
    > personnal addresses. Let me know the best way to do that without creating
    > problems on the list...
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    > Phil.
    >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text in the Subject
    and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-20 23:13
    [font=arial,helvetica]Eagle will do what you want, and you already know how to use it.
    e-mail me directly @ sdavis6969@aol.com[/font]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-20 23:36
    This really isn't too useful of a statement. He had asked a very specific
    question to which you didn't know the answer, and you suggested to use a
    different package which you didn't know about. Eagle is a very good layout
    package and one that is very fully functioning, and in fact can do exactly
    what was required of it ; changing layout packages isn't the solution.

    On Wed, 20 Jun 2001 Newzed@a... wrote:

    > Use Express PCB. You can make the holes any size you want up to .125
    >
    > Sid
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >

    Sean T. Lamont, CTO / Chief NetNerd, Abstract Software, Inc. (ServNet)
    Seattle - Bellingham - Vancouver - Portland - Everett - Tacoma - Bremerton
    email: lamont@a... WWW: http://www.serv.net
    "...There's no moral, it's just a lot of stuff that happens". - H. Simpson
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-21 18:52
    Changing via dia. size is really easy. If the vias are placed during auto
    route, which nobody uses by the way, you can easily change the diameter or
    the drill size by highlighting the whole board with the group command. Then
    click on change then on Diameter then to the diameter you want. Then take
    your mouse and put it in the middle of the board and RIGHT CLICK. All the
    vias will change to what you selected.

    If you want to change them during placment just change the dia and drill
    size in the small dia and drill windows on the top of the screen.

    Jeffrey A Boccaccio
    InVisions Technology
    Original Message
    From: Sean T. Lamont .lost. <lamont@a...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 3:24 PM
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] To Eagle users


    > On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Philippe Derenne wrote:
    >
    > > Hi Stampers,
    > >
    > > I'm using Eagle Layout Editor for differents projects. As I make double
    > > sided prints on my own, it's sometimes difficult to align both sides.
    > > It would be easier if the vias where a little larger. I can't find a way
    to
    > > define the vias diameter. Maybe somebody on the list would help me ?
    >
    > There are two ways to do this:
    >
    > 1) Change the via setting in the autoroute. When you do autoroute it gives
    > you a number of parameters including trace width, minimum distance between
    > traces, etc.
    >
    > 2) Go to the via when it's done routing and use the change width tool ; I
    > think it has a little wrench on it or something. Other than that you can
    > use the manual directive, which is I think "change diameter"
    >
    > Good luck.
    >
    >
    > >
    > > On the other hand, I made a library containing the BS2-IC and the
    BS2-SX. As
    > > I've seen demands about that, I can post it as attachement, or send it
    to
    > > personnal addresses. Let me know the best way to do that without
    creating
    > > problems on the list...
    > >
    > > Thanks
    > >
    > > Phil.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text in the
    Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    > Sean T. Lamont, CTO / Chief NetNerd, Abstract Software, Inc. (ServNet)
    > Seattle - Bellingham - Vancouver - Portland - Everett - Tacoma - Bremerton
    > email: lamont@a... WWW: http://www.serv.net
    > "...There's no moral, it's just a lot of stuff that happens". - H. Simpson
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text in the Subject
    and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-21 19:04
    Hi Peter,

    Thanks for your answer.
    I can send you the library if you give me your e-mail address.

    Best regards,

    Phil.

    Original Message
    From: "Peter Rogers" <molly7@o...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 11:53 PM
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] To Eagle users


    > i would love the libaries if you wuld like to send/post em.
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-21 19:20
    Hi Stampers,

    Thanks to everybody for your answers, useful or not !

    Phil.

    Original Message
    From: "Philippe Derenne" <derennep@s...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 7:50 PM
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] To Eagle users


    > Hi Stampers,
    >
    > I'm using Eagle Layout Editor for differents projects. As I make double
    > sided prints on my own, it's sometimes difficult to align both sides.
    > It would be easier if the vias where a little larger. I can't find a way
    to
    > define the vias diameter. Maybe somebody on the list would help me ?
    >
    > On the other hand, I made a library containing the BS2-IC and the BS2-SX.
    As
    > I've seen demands about that, I can post it as attachement, or send it to
    > personnal addresses. Let me know the best way to do that without creating
    > problems on the list...
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    > Phil.
    >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text in the Subject
    and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-21 20:26
    On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Jeff Boccaccio wrote:

    > Changing via dia. size is really easy. If the vias are placed during auto
    > route, which nobody uses by the way, you can easily change the diameter or
    > the drill size by highlighting the whole board with the group command. Then
    > click on change then on Diameter then to the diameter you want. Then take
    > your mouse and put it in the middle of the board and RIGHT CLICK. All the
    > vias will change to what you selected.


    Huh? I use autoroute/ripup all the time. The much easier to do it is to
    define the via size in the autoroute parameters ; it's right there. If
    it's already autorouted you can use ripup to get back to the virtual
    traces and re-autoroute it with the new via size.


    Sean T. Lamont, CTO / Chief NetNerd, Abstract Software, Inc. (ServNet)
    Seattle - Bellingham - Vancouver - Portland - Everett - Tacoma - Bremerton
    email: lamont@a... WWW: http://www.serv.net
    "...There's no moral, it's just a lot of stuff that happens". - H. Simpson
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-21 20:30
    I agree but I understood the note as being already to board level.

    Isn't Eagle just great?
    Original Message
    From: Sean T. Lamont .lost. <lamont@a...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 3:26 PM
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] To Eagle users


    > On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Jeff Boccaccio wrote:
    >
    > > Changing via dia. size is really easy. If the vias are placed during
    auto
    > > route, which nobody uses by the way, you can easily change the diameter
    or
    > > the drill size by highlighting the whole board with the group command.
    Then
    > > click on change then on Diameter then to the diameter you want. Then
    take
    > > your mouse and put it in the middle of the board and RIGHT CLICK. All
    the
    > > vias will change to what you selected.
    >
    >
    > Huh? I use autoroute/ripup all the time. The much easier to do it is to
    > define the via size in the autoroute parameters ; it's right there. If
    > it's already autorouted you can use ripup to get back to the virtual
    > traces and re-autoroute it with the new via size.
    >
    >
    > Sean T. Lamont, CTO / Chief NetNerd, Abstract Software, Inc. (ServNet)
    > Seattle - Bellingham - Vancouver - Portland - Everett - Tacoma - Bremerton
    > email: lamont@a... WWW: http://www.serv.net
    > "...There's no moral, it's just a lot of stuff that happens". - H. Simpson
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text in the Subject
    and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-21 20:33
    On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Jeff Boccaccio wrote:

    > I agree but I understood the note as being already to board level.

    Ok, point taken. I maintain that if you have already autorouted that you
    might not necessarily just want to expand the via size because you have
    the possibilty of getting uncomfortably close to other objects, and it's
    probably just easier to rip up the traces and re-autoroute with new via
    sizes, which gives you a new optimum placement given the larger vias.


    Sean T. Lamont, CTO / Chief NetNerd, Abstract Software, Inc. (ServNet)
    Seattle - Bellingham - Vancouver - Portland - Everett - Tacoma - Bremerton
    email: lamont@a... WWW: http://www.serv.net
    "...There's no moral, it's just a lot of stuff that happens". - H. Simpson
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-22 18:55
    Hi,

    Please could you send me the library that you made containing the BS2-IC?

    Regards,
    Jose Antonio



    At 19:50 20/06/01 +0200, you wrote:
    >Hi Stampers,
    >
    >I'm using Eagle Layout Editor for differents projects. As I make double
    >sided prints on my own, it's sometimes difficult to align both sides.
    >It would be easier if the vias where a little larger. I can't find a way to
    >define the vias diameter. Maybe somebody on the list would help me ?
    >
    >On the other hand, I made a library containing the BS2-IC and the BS2-SX. As
    >I've seen demands about that, I can post it as attachement, or send it to
    >personnal addresses. Let me know the best way to do that without creating
    >problems on the list...
    >
    >Thanks
    >
    >Phil.
    >
    >
    >
    >To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text in the Subject
    >and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-23 20:53
    > On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Jeff Boccaccio wrote:
    >
    > > Changing via dia. size is really easy. If the vias are placed during
    auto
    > > route, which nobody uses by the way, you can easily change the diameter
    or
    >
    >
    > Huh? I use autoroute/ripup all the time. The much easier to do it is to
    > define the via size in the autoroute parameters ; it's right there. If
    > it's already autorouted you can use ripup to get back to the virtual
    > traces and re-autoroute it with the new via size.
    >

    Agree ! I use autorouter also, even when I need a single side board. When
    90-95 % of the job is done, you just have to add some straps to finish the
    job. The last board I made took me only 1 hour to finish the routing (single
    sided). A full manual routing would have taken more than 4 hours, and lots
    of coffee !

    Thanks for your answer.

    Phil.
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-24 13:35
    When dealing with frequencies over 500 MHz auto routing just doesn't cut it.
    The router would never be smart enough to understand changing trace widths,
    when and where shapes need to change, isolated power planes, and signal
    integrity. Not to even mention the poor control over emissions. I have done
    countless experiments with this process and have learned how to
    strategically route boards to handle these issues and others. Fortunately, I
    own an LPKF router. This gives me the power to move from schematic to board
    level, to board routing, cutting and stuffing in less then an hour. I have
    better than 200 boards just experimenting with these issues. If you do high
    level RF engineering, part of the engineering is board management.There is
    no way out of that. It goes with the territory.
    Now if the board is pretty straight forward and dealing with lower
    frequencies I would have to say that auto route mode is very handy and saves
    time. Especially in typical multiple buss layout. But if you are doing high
    level work the time you save in auto route will work against you on multiple
    Rev's, time and of coarse money.
    As good as Eagle is, and don't get me wrong I love the program, auto route
    just makes poor decisions on traces and via's. You have to always put into
    the equation the cost factor for the board. When designing a board were 5 or
    10 thousand boards a month is not uncommon, board management can make a
    serious dent in boards cost and construction.

    Jeffrey A Boccaccio
    President
    InVisions Technology

    Original Message
    From: Philippe Derenne <derennep@s...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 3:53 PM
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] To Eagle users


    >
    >
    > > On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Jeff Boccaccio wrote:
    > >
    > > > Changing via dia. size is really easy. If the vias are placed during
    > auto
    > > > route, which nobody uses by the way, you can easily change the
    diameter
    > or
    > >
    > >
    > > Huh? I use autoroute/ripup all the time. The much easier to do it is to

    > > define the via size in the autoroute parameters ; it's right there. If
    > > it's already autorouted you can use ripup to get back to the virtual
    > > traces and re-autoroute it with the new via size.
    > >
    >
    > Agree ! I use autorouter also, even when I need a single side board. When
    > 90-95 % of the job is done, you just have to add some straps to finish the
    > job. The last board I made took me only 1 hour to finish the routing
    (single
    > sided). A full manual routing would have taken more than 4 hours, and lots
    > of coffee !
    >
    > Thanks for your answer.
    >
    > Phil.
    >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text in the Subject
    and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-25 12:44
    Sure:


    What Model do you have?
    What Kind of PCB Cad do you have?
    Has anyone made a custom Cat. file for you?
    One last question, what tools did you get with it?


    Original Message
    From: Johnny E. Bates <drjb@s...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 10:31 AM
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] To Eagle users


    > I recently purchased an LPKF router any chance of tutering me?
    >
    > Rusty Bates
    >
    Original Message
    > From: "Jeffrey A. Boccaccio" <jeff@i...>
    > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 7:35 AM
    > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] To Eagle users
    >
    >
    > > When dealing with frequencies over 500 MHz auto routing just doesn't cut
    > it.
    > > The router would never be smart enough to understand changing trace
    > widths,
    > > when and where shapes need to change, isolated power planes, and signal
    > > integrity. Not to even mention the poor control over emissions. I have
    > done
    > > countless experiments with this process and have learned how to
    > > strategically route boards to handle these issues and others.
    Fortunately,
    > I
    > > own an LPKF router. This gives me the power to move from schematic to
    > board
    > > level, to board routing, cutting and stuffing in less then an hour. I
    > have
    > > better than 200 boards just experimenting with these issues. If you do
    > high
    > > level RF engineering, part of the engineering is board management.There
    is
    > > no way out of that. It goes with the territory.
    > > Now if the board is pretty straight forward and dealing with lower
    > > frequencies I would have to say that auto route mode is very handy and
    > saves
    > > time. Especially in typical multiple buss layout. But if you are doing
    > high
    > > level work the time you save in auto route will work against you on
    > multiple
    > > Rev's, time and of coarse money.
    > > As good as Eagle is, and don't get me wrong I love the program, auto
    route
    > > just makes poor decisions on traces and via's. You have to always put
    into
    > > the equation the cost factor for the board. When designing a board were
    5
    > or
    > > 10 thousand boards a month is not uncommon, board management can make a
    > > serious dent in boards cost and construction.
    > >
    > > Jeffrey A Boccaccio
    > > President
    > > InVisions Technology
    > >
    > >
    Original Message
    > > From: Philippe Derenne <derennep@s...>
    > > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > > Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 3:53 PM
    > > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] To Eagle users
    > >
    > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > > On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Jeff Boccaccio wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > > Changing via dia. size is really easy. If the vias are placed
    during
    > > > auto
    > > > > > route, which nobody uses by the way, you can easily change the
    > > diameter
    > > > or
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Huh? I use autoroute/ripup all the time. The much easier to do it is
    > to
    > >
    > > > > define the via size in the autoroute parameters ; it's right there.
    If
    > > > > it's already autorouted you can use ripup to get back to the virtual
    > > > > traces and re-autoroute it with the new via size.
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > Agree ! I use autorouter also, even when I need a single side board.
    > When
    > > > 90-95 % of the job is done, you just have to add some straps to finish
    > the
    > > > job. The last board I made took me only 1 hour to finish the routing
    > > (single
    > > > sided). A full manual routing would have taken more than 4 hours, and
    > lots
    > > > of coffee !
    > > >
    > > > Thanks for your answer.
    > > >
    > > > Phil.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text in the
    > Subject
    > > and Body of the message will be ignored.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text in the
    Subject
    > and Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text in the Subject
    and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-25 15:21
    Cool:

    Have you done anything with the unit yet?
    ie make any boards or just played around. (thats hard not to do when you get
    it !)


    Original Message
    From: Johnny E. Bates <drjb@s...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 10:26 AM
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] To Eagle users


    > Protomat C30
    > EAGLE
    > ? CAT- To my knowledge no
    > I purchased the standard beginners toolkit.
    >
    > Thanks
    > Rusty
    >
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: "Jeff Boccaccio" <jeff@i...>
    > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 6:44 AM
    > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] To Eagle users
    >
    >
    > > Sure:
    > >
    > >
    > > What Model do you have?
    > > What Kind of PCB Cad do you have?
    > > Has anyone made a custom Cat. file for you?
    > > One last question, what tools did you get with it?
    > >
    > >
    > >
    Original Message
    > > From: Johnny E. Bates <drjb@s...>
    > > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 10:31 AM
    > > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] To Eagle users
    > >
    > >
    > > > I recently purchased an LPKF router any chance of tutering me?
    > > >
    > > > Rusty Bates
    > > >
    Original Message
    > > > From: "Jeffrey A. Boccaccio" <jeff@i...>
    > > > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > > > Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 7:35 AM
    > > > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] To Eagle users
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > > When dealing with frequencies over 500 MHz auto routing just doesn't
    > cut
    > > > it.
    > > > > The router would never be smart enough to understand changing trace
    > > > widths,
    > > > > when and where shapes need to change, isolated power planes, and
    > signal
    > > > > integrity. Not to even mention the poor control over emissions. I
    have
    > > > done
    > > > > countless experiments with this process and have learned how to
    > > > > strategically route boards to handle these issues and others.
    > > Fortunately,
    > > > I
    > > > > own an LPKF router. This gives me the power to move from schematic
    to
    > > > board
    > > > > level, to board routing, cutting and stuffing in less then an hour.
    I
    > > > have
    > > > > better than 200 boards just experimenting with these issues. If you
    do
    > > > high
    > > > > level RF engineering, part of the engineering is board
    > management.There
    > > is
    > > > > no way out of that. It goes with the territory.
    > > > > Now if the board is pretty straight forward and dealing with lower
    > > > > frequencies I would have to say that auto route mode is very handy
    and
    > > > saves
    > > > > time. Especially in typical multiple buss layout. But if you are
    doing
    > > > high
    > > > > level work the time you save in auto route will work against you on
    > > > multiple
    > > > > Rev's, time and of coarse money.
    > > > > As good as Eagle is, and don't get me wrong I love the program, auto
    > > route
    > > > > just makes poor decisions on traces and via's. You have to always
    put
    > > into
    > > > > the equation the cost factor for the board. When designing a board
    > were
    > > 5
    > > > or
    > > > > 10 thousand boards a month is not uncommon, board management can
    make
    > a
    > > > > serious dent in boards cost and construction.
    > > > >
    > > > > Jeffrey A Boccaccio
    > > > > President
    > > > > InVisions Technology
    > > > >
    > > > >
    Original Message
    > > > > From: Philippe Derenne <derennep@s...>
    > > > > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 3:53 PM
    > > > > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] To Eagle users
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > > On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Jeff Boccaccio wrote:
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > Changing via dia. size is really easy. If the vias are placed
    > > during
    > > > > > auto
    > > > > > > > route, which nobody uses by the way, you can easily change the
    > > > > diameter
    > > > > > or
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Huh? I use autoroute/ripup all the time. The much easier to do
    it
    > is
    > > > to
    > > > >
    > > > > > > define the via size in the autoroute parameters ; it's right
    > there.
    > > If
    > > > > > > it's already autorouted you can use ripup to get back to the
    > virtual
    > > > > > > traces and re-autoroute it with the new via size.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Agree ! I use autorouter also, even when I need a single side
    board.
    > > > When
    > > > > > 90-95 % of the job is done, you just have to add some straps to
    > finish
    > > > the
    > > > > > job. The last board I made took me only 1 hour to finish the
    routing
    > > > > (single
    > > > > > sided). A full manual routing would have taken more than 4 hours,
    > and
    > > > lots
    > > > > > of coffee !
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Thanks for your answer.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Phil.
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > > > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > > > > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text in the
    > > > Subject
    > > > > and Body of the message will be ignored.
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > > > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text in the
    > > Subject
    > > > and Body of the message will be ignored.
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text in the
    > Subject
    > > and Body of the message will be ignored.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text in the
    Subject
    > and Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text in the Subject
    and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-25 15:31
    I recently purchased an LPKF router any chance of tutering me?

    Rusty Bates
    Original Message
    From: "Jeffrey A. Boccaccio" <jeff@i...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 7:35 AM
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] To Eagle users


    > When dealing with frequencies over 500 MHz auto routing just doesn't cut
    it.
    > The router would never be smart enough to understand changing trace
    widths,
    > when and where shapes need to change, isolated power planes, and signal
    > integrity. Not to even mention the poor control over emissions. I have
    done
    > countless experiments with this process and have learned how to
    > strategically route boards to handle these issues and others. Fortunately,
    I
    > own an LPKF router. This gives me the power to move from schematic to
    board
    > level, to board routing, cutting and stuffing in less then an hour. I
    have
    > better than 200 boards just experimenting with these issues. If you do
    high
    > level RF engineering, part of the engineering is board management.There is
    > no way out of that. It goes with the territory.
    > Now if the board is pretty straight forward and dealing with lower
    > frequencies I would have to say that auto route mode is very handy and
    saves
    > time. Especially in typical multiple buss layout. But if you are doing
    high
    > level work the time you save in auto route will work against you on
    multiple
    > Rev's, time and of coarse money.
    > As good as Eagle is, and don't get me wrong I love the program, auto route
    > just makes poor decisions on traces and via's. You have to always put into
    > the equation the cost factor for the board. When designing a board were 5
    or
    > 10 thousand boards a month is not uncommon, board management can make a
    > serious dent in boards cost and construction.
    >
    > Jeffrey A Boccaccio
    > President
    > InVisions Technology
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: Philippe Derenne <derennep@s...>
    > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 3:53 PM
    > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] To Eagle users
    >
    >
    > >
    > >
    > > > On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Jeff Boccaccio wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > Changing via dia. size is really easy. If the vias are placed during
    > > auto
    > > > > route, which nobody uses by the way, you can easily change the
    > diameter
    > > or
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Huh? I use autoroute/ripup all the time. The much easier to do it is
    to
    >
    > > > define the via size in the autoroute parameters ; it's right there. If
    > > > it's already autorouted you can use ripup to get back to the virtual
    > > > traces and re-autoroute it with the new via size.
    > > >
    > >
    > > Agree ! I use autorouter also, even when I need a single side board.
    When
    > > 90-95 % of the job is done, you just have to add some straps to finish
    the
    > > job. The last board I made took me only 1 hour to finish the routing
    > (single
    > > sided). A full manual routing would have taken more than 4 hours, and
    lots
    > > of coffee !
    > >
    > > Thanks for your answer.
    > >
    > > Phil.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text in the
    Subject
    > and Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text in the Subject
    and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-26 15:26
    Protomat C30
    EAGLE
    ? CAT- To my knowledge no
    I purchased the standard beginners toolkit.

    Thanks
    Rusty


    Original Message
    From: "Jeff Boccaccio" <jeff@i...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 6:44 AM
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] To Eagle users


    > Sure:
    >
    >
    > What Model do you have?
    > What Kind of PCB Cad do you have?
    > Has anyone made a custom Cat. file for you?
    > One last question, what tools did you get with it?
    >
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: Johnny E. Bates <drjb@s...>
    > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 10:31 AM
    > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] To Eagle users
    >
    >
    > > I recently purchased an LPKF router any chance of tutering me?
    > >
    > > Rusty Bates
    > >
    Original Message
    > > From: "Jeffrey A. Boccaccio" <jeff@i...>
    > > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > > Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 7:35 AM
    > > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] To Eagle users
    > >
    > >
    > > > When dealing with frequencies over 500 MHz auto routing just doesn't
    cut
    > > it.
    > > > The router would never be smart enough to understand changing trace
    > > widths,
    > > > when and where shapes need to change, isolated power planes, and
    signal
    > > > integrity. Not to even mention the poor control over emissions. I have
    > > done
    > > > countless experiments with this process and have learned how to
    > > > strategically route boards to handle these issues and others.
    > Fortunately,
    > > I
    > > > own an LPKF router. This gives me the power to move from schematic to
    > > board
    > > > level, to board routing, cutting and stuffing in less then an hour. I
    > > have
    > > > better than 200 boards just experimenting with these issues. If you do
    > > high
    > > > level RF engineering, part of the engineering is board
    management.There
    > is
    > > > no way out of that. It goes with the territory.
    > > > Now if the board is pretty straight forward and dealing with lower
    > > > frequencies I would have to say that auto route mode is very handy and
    > > saves
    > > > time. Especially in typical multiple buss layout. But if you are doing
    > > high
    > > > level work the time you save in auto route will work against you on
    > > multiple
    > > > Rev's, time and of coarse money.
    > > > As good as Eagle is, and don't get me wrong I love the program, auto
    > route
    > > > just makes poor decisions on traces and via's. You have to always put
    > into
    > > > the equation the cost factor for the board. When designing a board
    were
    > 5
    > > or
    > > > 10 thousand boards a month is not uncommon, board management can make
    a
    > > > serious dent in boards cost and construction.
    > > >
    > > > Jeffrey A Boccaccio
    > > > President
    > > > InVisions Technology
    > > >
    > > >
    Original Message
    > > > From: Philippe Derenne <derennep@s...>
    > > > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > > > Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 3:53 PM
    > > > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] To Eagle users
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > > On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Jeff Boccaccio wrote:
    > > > > >
    > > > > > > Changing via dia. size is really easy. If the vias are placed
    > during
    > > > > auto
    > > > > > > route, which nobody uses by the way, you can easily change the
    > > > diameter
    > > > > or
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Huh? I use autoroute/ripup all the time. The much easier to do it
    is
    > > to
    > > >
    > > > > > define the via size in the autoroute parameters ; it's right
    there.
    > If
    > > > > > it's already autorouted you can use ripup to get back to the
    virtual
    > > > > > traces and re-autoroute it with the new via size.
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Agree ! I use autorouter also, even when I need a single side board.
    > > When
    > > > > 90-95 % of the job is done, you just have to add some straps to
    finish
    > > the
    > > > > job. The last board I made took me only 1 hour to finish the routing
    > > > (single
    > > > > sided). A full manual routing would have taken more than 4 hours,
    and
    > > lots
    > > > > of coffee !
    > > > >
    > > > > Thanks for your answer.
    > > > >
    > > > > Phil.
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > > > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text in the
    > > Subject
    > > > and Body of the message will be ignored.
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text in the
    > Subject
    > > and Body of the message will be ignored.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text in the
    Subject
    > and Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text in the Subject
    and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-26 21:48
    [font=arial,helvetica]Hi. I've been away from the computer lately, so dont know what this Eagle
    thing is all about. Could someone tell me what it is?[/font]
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