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Motor Torque Question — Parallax Forums

Motor Torque Question

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2001-06-21 13:46 in General Discussion
I found a motor in a catalog, and I have some questions as to the
specifications that the vendor lists.

The motor says: ( Mfg specs: 41.7 / 38.8 rpm with 80.5 oz-in load ). How
does the 80.5 oz-in load
correlate to the 41.7 / 38.8 rpm numbers ? I'm planning on using it to
drive the wheels for my mower-bot.

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-19 22:25
    At 3:46 PM -0500 6/19/01, Bryan Smith, you wrote about [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps]
    Motor Torque Question:

    >
    >The motor says: ( Mfg specs: 41.7 / 38.8 rpm with 80.5 oz-in load ). How
    >does the 80.5 oz-in load
    >correlate to the 41.7 / 38.8 rpm numbers ?


    80.5 oz-in is a torque and 'just' means that if the radius of the
    wheel on the motor shaft is R, then that wheel can exert a force of
    80.5/ 16R on the ground. The 16 changes the oz unit of force into the
    more common 'lb' (pound) of force. (welcome to the totally bonkers
    world of US units!

    A wheel with radius = 4 inches would be able to exert a force of a
    bit more than 1 pound when turning at a rate of about 40 rpm.

    Using the circumference of the 4 inch wheel (C = 2 pi R) tells you
    that it would move forward a distance of about 80 feet each minute
    or more than 1 foot per second.

    sounds like you might want to gear it down a bit or choose a tire
    smaller than R=4.
    --
    .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-
    \ / \ / \ N / \ C / \ S / \ S / \ M / \ / \ /
    `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-'
    Chuck Britton Education is what is left when
    britton@n... you have forgotten everything
    North Carolina School of Science & Math you learned in school.
    (919) 286-3366 x224 Albert Einstein, 1936
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-19 22:26
    I think what they are saying is that the motor will run a bit slower with a
    load. I assume this is a gearhead motor, no? I don't think these motors have
    enough power to do what you want.

    Original Message


    > I found a motor in a catalog, and I have some questions as to the
    > specifications that the vendor lists.
    >
    > The motor says: ( Mfg specs: 41.7 / 38.8 rpm with 80.5 oz-in load ). How
    > does the 80.5 oz-in load
    > correlate to the 41.7 / 38.8 rpm numbers ? I'm planning on using it to
    > drive the wheels for my mower-bot.
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-19 22:27
    Yes. This may mean that if working with a lighter load than specified
    the RPM may speed up and vice-versa.
    Another issue to consider is the maximum speed you intend for the robot.
    RPM x circumference of wheels = distance per minute.
    ACJacques

    Bryan Smith wrote:
    >
    > I found a motor in a catalog, and I have some questions as to the
    > specifications that the vendor lists.
    >
    > The motor says: ( Mfg specs: 41.7 / 38.8 rpm with 80.5 oz-in load ). How
    > does the 80.5 oz-in load
    > correlate to the 41.7 / 38.8 rpm numbers ? I'm planning on using it to
    > drive the wheels for my mower-bot.
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-20 03:14
    Does the 80.5 ounce load indicate if this weight were suspended on a
    lever one foot away from the motor's shaft that the motor would rotate
    this load at some given speed? One foot per second or maybe one radian
    per second, or maybe some where in the range of 41.7 / 38.8RPM?

    Regards,

    Leroy

    Rodent wrote:
    >
    > I think what they are saying is that the motor will run a bit slower with a
    > load. I assume this is a gearhead motor, no? I don't think these motors have
    > enough power to do what you want.
    >
    >
    Original Message
    >
    > > I found a motor in a catalog, and I have some questions as to the
    > > specifications that the vendor lists.
    > >
    > > The motor says: ( Mfg specs: 41.7 / 38.8 rpm with 80.5 oz-in load ). How
    > > does the 80.5 oz-in load
    > > correlate to the 41.7 / 38.8 rpm numbers ? I'm planning on using it to
    > > drive the wheels for my mower-bot.
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

    --

    *******************************************************
    * Leroy Hall *
    * 317 Cherokee Drive *
    * Loveland, Ohio - USA 45140-2404 *
    *******************************************************
    * Phone: (513) 697-7539 *
    * Cell : (513) 300-8632 *
    * Email: leroy@f... *
    * Home page URL: http://home.fuse.net/leroy/ *
    * Resume URL: http://home.fuse.net/leroy/resume.htm *
    *******************************************************
    * Leroy Hall *
    * 317 Cherokee Drive *
    * Loveland, Ohio - USA 45140-2404 *
    *******************************************************
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-20 03:31
    Don't throw gravity into this -- it will just confuse things. Imagine no
    gravity use a spring-scale to measure pull.

    The torque is relative to the length of the lever -- if you fixed an arm on
    the motor shaft one inch long, it would exert 80.5 ounces of pull on a
    spring scale while the motor rotated at the given speed. If the arm were
    longer, the pull would be proportionally less, but the torque would remain
    the same. This means smaller diameter wheels are gonna give you more power
    than larger ones.

    Original Message

    > Does the 80.5 ounce load indicate if this weight were suspended on a
    > lever one foot away from the motor's shaft that the motor would rotate
    > this load at some given speed? One foot per second or maybe one radian
    > per second, or maybe some where in the range of 41.7 / 38.8RPM?

    > > I think what they are saying is that the motor will run a bit slower
    with a
    > > load. I assume this is a gearhead motor, no? I don't think these motors
    have
    > > enough power to do what you want.
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-20 03:53
    At 9:31 PM -0500 6/19/01, Rodent, you wrote about Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps]
    Motor Torque Question:


    >Don't throw gravity into this -- it will just confuse things. Imagine no
    >gravity use a spring-scale to measure pull.
    >
    >The torque is relative to the length of the lever -- if you fixed an arm on
    >the motor shaft one inch long, it would exert 80.5 ounces of pull on a
    >spring scale while the motor rotated at the given speed. If the arm were
    >longer, the pull would be proportionally less, but the torque would remain
    >the same. This means smaller diameter wheels are gonna give you more power
    >than larger ones.

    Gravity is ok here.

    An ounce of pull is the weight of a 1 ounce object.

    A one inch radius wheel is a one inch lever. It could lift a 80.5 oz
    load ( 5 lbs) at the rated rpm. (from this you can figure the
    velocity of the lifting)

    POWER is Force X Velocity as well as being Voltage X Current.

    so changing lever lengths (wheel radius) will NOT change the POWER
    delivered but 'just' changes the FORCE and the VELOCITY at which this
    force acts.

    Power and Force are sometimes colloquially used interchangeably
    but I'm trying to be PC here. (Physics Correct)
    --
    .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-
    \ / \ / \ N / \ C / \ S / \ S / \ M / \ / \ /
    `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-'
    Chuck Britton Education is what is left when
    britton@n... you have forgotten everything
    North Carolina School of Science & Math you learned in school.
    (919) 286-3366 x224 Albert Einstein, 1936
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-20 06:04
    The only problem with gravity is that its only lifting the full weight when
    the load is suspended perpendicular to the ground. Not a good example for
    explaining motor torque.

    Original Message

    > >Don't throw gravity into this -- it will just confuse things. Imagine no
    > >gravity use a spring-scale to measure pull.
    > >
    > >The torque is relative to the length of the lever -- if you fixed an arm
    on
    > >the motor shaft one inch long, it would exert 80.5 ounces of pull on a
    > >spring scale while the motor rotated at the given speed. If the arm were
    > >longer, the pull would be proportionally less, but the torque would
    remain
    > >the same. This means smaller diameter wheels are gonna give you more
    power
    > >than larger ones.
    >
    > Gravity is ok here.
    >
    > An ounce of pull is the weight of a 1 ounce object.
    >
    > A one inch radius wheel is a one inch lever. It could lift a 80.5 oz
    > load ( 5 lbs) at the rated rpm. (from this you can figure the
    > velocity of the lifting)
    >
    > POWER is Force X Velocity as well as being Voltage X Current.
    >
    > so changing lever lengths (wheel radius) will NOT change the POWER
    > delivered but 'just' changes the FORCE and the VELOCITY at which this
    > force acts.
    >
    > Power and Force are sometimes colloquially used interchangeably
    > but I'm trying to be PC here. (Physics Correct)
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-20 13:07
    T |\
    I | \
    | \
    ____\_____
    N

    OK, class: The chart above is typical Torque (and current demand) of
    a typical DC motor, versus speed (N), at constant voltage.
    A responsible motor seller will tell us about TWO points on the line.
    Often we know "free rpm" at a given voltage; the motor hooked to
    battery with no output load (output torque is zero).
    Grab the shaft, speed goes down, torque and current increase. Stop
    the shaft ("stall"), you'll have max current flow and torque. Seller
    should give "stall torque" and "stall current". Buyer needs to size
    his speed control for the max stall torque current, if stalling is
    possible (mower stuck in a ditch), or use a speed control with some
    kind of current limiter (e.g., Allegro 3952).
    Typically, a DC motor has best efficiency, and is sized to run,
    around Nmax/2.

    The rating given below isn't clear- is this max speed and stall
    torque? Or actually a point on the line?
    Calibration point: Typical cordless screwdrivers will turn max of
    around 180 rpm (free speed), and give about 40 in-oz stall torque.
    These gearmotors are often used by folk who motorize GI Joe vehicles
    for R/C use (yup...).
    You need to decide how fast your Bot needs to go, and select an
    appropriate wheel diameter, which yields the needed output speed...
    which should be about half the free speed. The torque numbers below
    seem to be in the ballpark.
    Check jameco.com for a nice selection of gearmotors (search for dc
    motors)... or:
    http://jameco.com/Jameco/Products/ProdCT/p078.pdf, bottom of page.

    patmat


    --- In basicstamps@y..., Bryan Smith <bsmith@w...> wrote:
    > I found a motor in a catalog, and I have some questions as to the
    > specifications that the vendor lists.
    >
    > The motor says: ( Mfg specs: 41.7 / 38.8 rpm with 80.5 oz-in
    load ). How
    > does the 80.5 oz-in load
    > correlate to the 41.7 / 38.8 rpm numbers ? I'm planning on using
    it to
    > drive the wheels for my mower-bot.
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-20 14:06
    Thanks to all who have responded to my posting. Everyone has been helpful.

    >
    Original Message
    > From: Bryan Smith [noparse]/noparse]SMTP:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=dEPtyYr9x3VlvJqBQZNNMQ_VeY6EVN15RJ4W_yjveH5UWO3_TUSL4Exn0cCHewTUik2eXbHFmL8]bsmith@w...[/url
    > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 3:46 PM
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Motor Torque Question
    >
    > I found a motor in a catalog, and I have some questions as to the
    > specifications that the vendor lists.
    >
    > The motor says: ( Mfg specs: 41.7 / 38.8 rpm with 80.5 oz-in load ). How
    > does the 80.5 oz-in load
    > correlate to the 41.7 / 38.8 rpm numbers ? I'm planning on using it to
    > drive the wheels for my mower-bot.
    >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text in the Subject
    > and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-20 23:57
    [font=arial,helvetica]

    41.7 / 38.8RPM <
    Why two numbers are used? Is the second one the RPM's
    with load?



    [/font]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-21 13:46
    Probably just their tolerance on the no-load speed.
    patmat

    --- In basicstamps@y..., parkan197@a... wrote:
    >
    >
    > > 41.7 / 38.8RPM <
    Why two numbers are used? Is the second one
    the RPM's
    > > with load?
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