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mini doppler radar or ? — Parallax Forums

mini doppler radar or ?

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2001-08-01 15:59 in General Discussion
I have an application for a small speedometer on a canoe. I am working with
a couple of constraints:

#1. I need speed through the water so a GPS won't work.

#2. I need to be able to attach and detach it in a minute or so (nothing
permanent on the canoe).

My thinking is a mini doppler radar hanging on the gunwale looking forward
at, say, a 45% angle (like a police speed gun) that only needs a range of,
say, three feet.

I am also thinking about the possibility of a small camera looking down and
measuring the speed of the water passing the hull.

Since I have never worked with either of these technologies, I have no idea
whether either of these ideas are possible or practical. I know there a lot
of bright guys on this list. Any comments or suggestions would be
appreciated.

Jay

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-17 19:38
    > Since I have never worked with either of these technologies, I have
    no idea
    > whether either of these ideas are possible or practical. I know
    there a lot
    > of bright guys on this list. Any comments or suggestions would be
    > appreciated.

    Are you trying to track the speed of the boat you're in relative to
    the land, the speed of the water against the boat, the speed of the
    boat relative to the water, the speed of the water relative to the
    land, the speed of another boat relative to your boat, the speed of
    another boat relative to the land, the speed of another boat relative
    to the water around your boat, the speed of another boat relative to a
    stationary object such as a buoy, the speed of another boat relative
    to a buoy versus the speed of the water relative to the land, or the
    speed of a boy in a boat trying to escape his relatives?

    Eh, what are you trying to track?

    -Chilton
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-17 19:39
    > I have an application for a small speedometer on a canoe. I am
    working with
    > a couple of constraints:
    >
    If you're just looking for a speedometer, you could trail a
    'mini-torpedo' and have it track its speed through the water. That
    would be possible by measuring the speed of a tail rotor at the end of
    the torp, and having a stamp average out the rotations per minute over
    a period of time, then apply some mathematical formula I learned in
    the 6th grade and promptly forgot. That should do it, and it would be
    very portable (ie you could take your torpedo elsewhere).

    -Chilton
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-17 20:00
    That might work. Because of the paddles, I would have to trail it off the
    stern and transmit the speed 20 feet forward to a display...

    I will have to thimk about that for a bit...

    Jay

    Original Message
    From: chilton@t... [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=drCFSVXbIwgL4601l3rjTyafHEncy1WIhdcsU_WHk8-HQDne2IRLm3g_ChovxT_CD6jz2oCXuUg]chilton@t...[/url
    Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2001 1:00 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] mini doppler radar or ?


    > I have an application for a small speedometer on a canoe. I am
    working with
    > a couple of constraints:
    >
    If you're just looking for a speedometer, you could trail a
    'mini-torpedo' and have it track its speed through the water. That
    would be possible by measuring the speed of a tail rotor at the end of
    the torp, and having a stamp average out the rotations per minute over
    a period of time, then apply some mathematical formula I learned in
    the 6th grade and promptly forgot. That should do it, and it would be
    very portable (ie you could take your torpedo elsewhere).

    -Chilton

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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-17 21:32
    If you can hang something in the water, a simple device would be a
    paddle wheel with magnets in the paddles. Say 4 paddles, Then count
    pulses. Cheap and effective. Only let part of the paddel be
    effected by the flowing water and it will spin easily.

    google search gave me this....
    "paddle wheel flow sensor"

    http://www.fireresearch.com/paddle.htm



    --- In basicstamps@y..., "Jay Hanson" <j@q...> wrote:
    > I have an application for a small speedometer on a canoe. I am
    working with
    > a couple of constraints:
    >
    > #1. I need speed through the water so a GPS won't work.
    >
    > #2. I need to be able to attach and detach it in a minute or so
    (nothing
    > permanent on the canoe).
    >
    > My thinking is a mini doppler radar hanging on the gunwale looking
    forward
    > at, say, a 45% angle (like a police speed gun) that only needs a
    range of,
    > say, three feet.
    >
    > I am also thinking about the possibility of a small camera looking
    down and
    > measuring the speed of the water passing the hull.
    >
    > Since I have never worked with either of these technologies, I have
    no idea
    > whether either of these ideas are possible or practical. I know
    there a lot
    > of bright guys on this list. Any comments or suggestions would be
    > appreciated.
    >
    > Jay
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-18 04:53
    > I have an application for a small speedometer on
    a canoe.........

    I like the "torpedo" idea. Only drawback I see
    is....where you're going, are there any fish big
    enough to think the torpedo is lunch? One thought
    I had was a variable resistance stress sensor.
    These are strips of plastic with a resistive
    coating which would change value when flexed by
    the water going by. I'm not sure if they're water
    proof, but you'd probably want to bond it to a
    stiffer backing and stick that in the water.
    Calibration would be the only problem I see, but
    you'd have that with the torpedo, too. I forget
    who had these, maybe someone else on the list
    recalls. I'll try to find out and let you know.
    --Stu Wrenn
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-18 14:14
    35.00 @ westmarine.com No sense in reinventing the
    wheel. 10.00 for aluminum pole 4.00 for a c-clamp to
    mount to the boat

    Eric Haskins




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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-18 14:18
    I do not remember from the original post why GPS would not work .....
    Seems like it would be ideal.


    Dale Harwood [noparse][[/noparse] N4VFF ]

    internet> dale@h...

    ax.25> n4vff@n4vff.#cha.tn.usa.noam

    #include <std_disclaimer.h>
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-18 17:02
    Found it!
    The flex sensor I mentioned earlier is described at:
    http://www.imagesco.com/catalog/flex/FlexSensors.html

    --Stu
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-18 19:41
    The problems with these kinds of solutions are basically four:

    #1. It's not my boat. I can't mount anything permanently. We don't even
    know which canoe we are going to use until it's in the water.

    #2. I can't slow the boat down by dragging too much stuff through the water
    (although a little torpedo would be OK).

    #3. Six paddlers sweep both sides of the canoe in front of them. This
    disturbs the water flow and will destroy anything in the way of the paddles.
    The bow, stern, and about six inches next to each paddler is available.

    #4. The electronics must survive immersion in salt water (these canoes
    capsize quite a bit). Waterproof to a depth of, say, one foot would be all
    that was needed.

    I had toyed with the idea of a propeller before, but the immersion problem
    (machining, O rings, etc.) seemed to present quite a challenge. I do not
    have a lathe or milling machine.

    If a camera could peer out of a clear plastic window and estimate the speed
    of the passing water, then it would be a lot easier in some ways. But I
    suspect the processing demands would be horrendous.

    Jay

    Original Message
    From: Eric Haskins [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=gE_VPduYS5FElu0as1bLsLceVYAzIZQ7YFoU75uAhXmkG_S6qGsDpvd6SMzDZ5cZakUBsiO5Feyi6f8aGrlzng]wirelesstech71@y...[/url
    Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 3:14 AM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] mini doppler radar or ?


    35.00 @ westmarine.com No sense in reinventing the
    wheel. 10.00 for aluminum pole 4.00 for a c-clamp to
    mount to the boat

    Eric Haskins




    __________________________________________________
    Do You Yahoo!?
    Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more.
    http://buzz.yahoo.com/

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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-18 20:40
    This seems to be the most promising sensor so far... Any other ideas?

    Jay

    Original Message
    From: Stu Wrenn [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=iVa39fzCw_80_0txZAHL4j89qsec7XlpvqIDPoJG9FOyuF2xfl4TuBgiY8MyJAZMbSXTpQn28Im_ig]swrenn@z...[/url
    Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 6:03 AM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] mini doppler radar or ?


    Found it!
    The flex sensor I mentioned earlier is described at:
    http://www.imagesco.com/catalog/flex/FlexSensors.html

    --Stu


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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-18 22:05
    How about a "drag" measure. Drag any small thing behind the
    boat (doesn't need to be propellored) with an attached string
    to a device inside the boat. Measure the force of the drag
    from inside the boat, higher drag = faster through the water.
    you are really measuring the water pressure against the object
    as the boat moves forward...
    Just a thought.

    with enough thrust, pigs fly just fine.





    ---- On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Jay Hanson (j@q...) wrote:

    > The problems with these kinds of solutions are basically four:
    >
    > #1. It's not my boat. I can't mount anything permanently.
    We don't
    > even
    > know which canoe we are going to use until it's in the water.
    >
    > #2. I can't slow the boat down by dragging too much stuff
    through the
    > water
    > (although a little torpedo would be OK).
    >
    > #3. Six paddlers sweep both sides of the canoe in front of
    them. This
    > disturbs the water flow and will destroy anything in the way
    of the
    > paddles.
    > The bow, stern, and about six inches next to each paddler is
    available.
    >
    > #4. The electronics must survive immersion in salt water
    (these canoes
    > capsize quite a bit). Waterproof to a depth of, say, one
    foot would be
    > all
    > that was needed.
    >
    > I had toyed with the idea of a propeller before, but the
    immersion
    > problem
    > (machining, O rings, etc.) seemed to present quite a
    challenge. I do
    > not
    > have a lathe or milling machine.
    >
    > If a camera could peer out of a clear plastic window and
    estimate the
    > speed
    > of the passing water, then it would be a lot easier in some
    ways. But I
    > suspect the processing demands would be horrendous.
    >
    > Jay
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: Eric Haskins [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=5Wk6pqx79gf6UNo7SPGm_pwhFxDdAxycRHVAA34ajWdUZFk9m3UvUIZl2PaeYc0m30VxPiTfVrguHea2d-2SfA]wirelesstech71@y...[/url
    > Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 3:14 AM
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] mini doppler radar or ?
    >
    >
    > 35.00 @ westmarine.com No sense in reinventing the
    > wheel. 10.00 for aluminum pole 4.00 for a c-clamp to
    > mount to the boat
    >
    > Eric Haskins
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > __________________________________________________
    > Do You Yahoo!?
    > Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more.
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    >
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    > Subject
    > and Body of the message will be ignored.
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    >
    >
    >
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    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-18 22:14
    Don't you need to consider the direction and speed of the water flow around
    the boat, that is, the current?
    If you measured the boat movement vs the water speed in a kayak on water in
    a fast moving stream, you wouldn't get anywhere the correct real speed.

    At 05:05 PM 6/18/2001 -0400, you wrote:
    >How about a "drag" measure. Drag any small thing behind the
    >boat (doesn't need to be propellored) with an attached string
    >to a device inside the boat. Measure the force of the drag
    >from inside the boat, higher drag = faster through the water.
    >you are really measuring the water pressure against the object
    >as the boat moves forward...

    _________________________________
    Mike Walsh
    walsh@i...
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-18 22:39
    Not really. Speed through the water is the most meaningful I
    would think, but depends on the needs. Currents etc. do their
    thing vs. progress relative to land, but speed through the
    water is irrepective of wind,currents, etc...



    with enough thrust, pigs fly just fine.





    ---- On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Mike Walsh (walsh@c...) wrote:

    > Don't you need to consider the direction and speed of the
    water flow
    > around
    > the boat, that is, the current?
    > If you measured the boat movement vs the water speed in a
    kayak on water
    > in
    > a fast moving stream, you wouldn't get anywhere the correct
    real speed.
    >
    > At 05:05 PM 6/18/2001 -0400, you wrote:
    > >How about a "drag" measure. Drag any small thing behind the
    > >boat (doesn't need to be propellored) with an attached string
    > >to a device inside the boat. Measure the force of the drag
    > >from inside the boat, higher drag = faster through the water.
    > >you are really measuring the water pressure against the
    object
    > >as the boat moves forward...
    >
    > _________________________________
    > Mike Walsh
    > walsh@i...
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text
    in the
    > Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-18 22:41
    Keep in mind in a stream, the waves are standing - and the
    water moves- in the ocean, the waves move and the water stays
    still in comparison. (from my canoeing days)





    ---- On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Mike Walsh (walsh@c...) wrote:

    > Don't you need to consider the direction and speed of the
    water flow
    > around
    > the boat, that is, the current?
    > If you measured the boat movement vs the water speed in a
    kayak on water
    > in
    > a fast moving stream, you wouldn't get anywhere the correct
    real speed.
    >
    > At 05:05 PM 6/18/2001 -0400, you wrote:
    > >How about a "drag" measure. Drag any small thing behind the
    > >boat (doesn't need to be propellored) with an attached string
    > >to a device inside the boat. Measure the force of the drag
    > >from inside the boat, higher drag = faster through the water.
    > >you are really measuring the water pressure against the
    object
    > >as the boat moves forward...
    >
    > _________________________________
    > Mike Walsh
    > walsh@i...
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text
    in the
    > Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-18 23:03
    I can get speed over the bottom with a GPS. If compare the GPS with
    speed-through-the-water, then I can calculate currents (which can be a knot
    or more).

    Jay

    Original Message
    From: Mike Walsh [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=omOb8yzb-t_J7aNeCCQMWEQr5kpcE9jELPSI5dTDm8xPoR1d1K7icpkbnDOvFTjJv4oCAhjShuw947_g]walsh@c...[/url
    Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 11:14 AM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] mini doppler radar or ?


    Don't you need to consider the direction and speed of the water flow around
    the boat, that is, the current?
    If you measured the boat movement vs the water speed in a kayak on water in
    a fast moving stream, you wouldn't get anywhere the correct real speed.

    At 05:05 PM 6/18/2001 -0400, you wrote:
    >How about a "drag" measure. Drag any small thing behind the
    >boat (doesn't need to be propellored) with an attached string
    >to a device inside the boat. Measure the force of the drag
    >from inside the boat, higher drag = faster through the water.
    >you are really measuring the water pressure against the object
    >as the boat moves forward...

    _________________________________
    Mike Walsh
    walsh@i...


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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-18 23:17
    Hi,

    I am still a bit confused about what you really want to measure?
    You say you want to measure the amount of water passing the canoe.

    Scenario 1: in a river if you go with the flow (no paddling) you would
    measure zero amount.

    Scenario 2: in a river paddling downstream you would measure a positive
    amount while going faster than the water

    Scenario 3: in a river paddling upstream to keep the canoe 'on the spot',
    you would measure a positive amount also.

    So I do not see how the amount of passed water gives you any practical
    information about what is happening
    without additional info like upstream/downstream paddling etc.

    Please elaborate a bit more what you want to measure.

    Greetings peter
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-18 23:40
    > I had toyed with the idea of a propeller before, but the immersion problem
    > (machining, O rings, etc.) seemed to present quite a challenge. I do not
    > have a lathe or milling machine.

    Edmund Scientific sells a little plastic motor/prop. You could remove the
    battery and use the motor as a generator. Or you could replace the motor
    with some kind of sensor (optical, magnetic) and count the revolutions.
    Put your stamp in the plastic container. Water tight! If you need more
    than data logging, (ie display), you can drill a hole and silicon in a
    wire, or go high tech, use a wireless transmitter.

    I looked through the entire ES website, haven't found it. If you have one
    of their catalogs, it looks like a torpedo, red and white in color, with a
    suction cup on the side. I think it runs off of one or two AA batteries.

    > If a camera could peer out of a clear plastic window and estimate the
    > speed of the passing water, then it would be a lot easier in some ways.
    > But I suspect the processing demands would be horrendous.

    This is precisely what all the _new_ optical mice do. It was developed by
    an engineer at HP. (ie. Logitech, Microsoft and Kensignton. NOT the old
    Sun mice from Mouse Systems.) You can pick them up for $20 - $30.
    Warning. The mouse I have only works at a distance of about 1/4". This
    may be adjustable by using different optics and lighting. I have not tried
    this kind of modification.

    joshua
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-18 23:48
    Hi,

    >If this were for training I could see how this would be great, showing how
    >much work was being done.
    >They could be working there butts off and standing still just like a
    >exercise bike they have spedo's but don't go anywhere ??

    True, but my mentioned scenario's 2 and 3 could result in the same amount
    measered,
    while scenario 2 requires a lot less 'work' as gravity helps you.
    So I do need additional info to get the 'real' results.

    Greetings peter
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-18 23:56
    If this were for training I could see how this would be great, showing how
    much work was being done.
    They could be working there butts off and standing still just like a
    exercise bike they have spedo's but don't go anywhere ??

    Peter Verkaik wrote:
    >
    > Hi,
    >
    > I am still a bit confused about what you really want to measure?
    > You say you want to measure the amount of water passing the canoe.
    >
    > Scenario 1: in a river if you go with the flow (no paddling) you would
    > measure zero amount.
    >
    > Scenario 2: in a river paddling downstream you would measure a positive
    > amount while going faster than the water
    >
    > Scenario 3: in a river paddling upstream to keep the canoe 'on the spot',
    > you would measure a positive amount also.
    >
    > So I do not see how the amount of passed water gives you any practical
    > information about what is happening
    > without additional info like upstream/downstream paddling etc.
    >
    > Please elaborate a bit more what you want to measure.
    >
    > Greetings peter
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-19 00:24
    >I do not remember from the original post why GPS would not work
    >..... Seems like it would be ideal.

    The main reason is that GPS gives speed-over-bottom rather than
    speed-through-water. With both, I can calculate currents.

    Also, my GPS only gives speed once a second. I need faster updates (e.g.,
    10 hz) so I can, among other things, measure the stroke rate.

    Jay
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-19 00:29
    >>If a camera could peer out of a clear plastic window and estimate
    >>the speed of the passing water, then it would be a lot easier in
    >
    >This is precisely what all the _new_ optical mice do. It was
    >developed by an engineer at HP. (ie. Logitech, Microsoft and
    >Kensignton. NOT the old Sun mice from Mouse Systems.) You
    >can pick them up for $20 - $30. Warning. The mouse I have
    >only works at a distance of about 1/4". This may be adjustable
    >by using different optics and lighting. I have not tried
    >this kind of modification.

    GREAT IDEA! I hadn't thought about mice. The same concept extended to a
    longer range (say, two feet) and a different reflective surface...

    Jay
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-19 05:44
    I agree with Mike. Viscous drag is nonlinear in real-world appliations, and
    is not very reliable for estimating velocity. Been there, done that.

    Dennis

    Original Message
    From: Ken Ambrose [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=WNfTfekV09eHvPLChGXj7CpLEXswGdG7bg8qkJxHk7y_Dg4mYk7oMoFq61eyeXlN5tAinvsQe_A]kenzo@u...[/url
    Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 2:40 PM
    To: Mike Walsh
    Subject: Re: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] mini doppler radar or ?


    Not really. Speed through the water is the most meaningful I
    would think, but depends on the needs. Currents etc. do their
    thing vs. progress relative to land, but speed through the
    water is irrepective of wind,currents, etc...



    with enough thrust, pigs fly just fine.





    ---- On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Mike Walsh (walsh@c...) wrote:

    > Don't you need to consider the direction and speed of the
    water flow
    > around
    > the boat, that is, the current?
    > If you measured the boat movement vs the water speed in a
    kayak on water
    > in
    > a fast moving stream, you wouldn't get anywhere the correct
    real speed.
    >
    > At 05:05 PM 6/18/2001 -0400, you wrote:
    > >How about a "drag" measure. Drag any small thing behind the
    > >boat (doesn't need to be propellored) with an attached string
    > >to a device inside the boat. Measure the force of the drag
    > >from inside the boat, higher drag = faster through the water.
    > >you are really measuring the water pressure against the
    object
    > >as the boat moves forward...
    >
    > _________________________________
    > Mike Walsh
    > walsh@i...
    >
    >
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    >


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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-19 05:48

    Original Message
    From: Ken Ambrose [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=ZQEPg26rLbEKcCbqtX3Vui5Da25uZC8FsLz78AHLkXv-CiPiZPMIOfiMZqQlWsP_qYRixDTnyG4]kenzo@u...[/url
    Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 2:05 PM
    To: Jay Hanson
    Subject: Re: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] mini doppler radar or ?

    with enough thrust, pigs fly just fine.

    Ken,

    Thrust without guidance is called a free-fall trajectory. The result is
    called SPLAT [noparse]:)[/noparse] .

    Dennis
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-19 05:57
    Actually in the Air Force, an unguided missle is called said to
    have gone "ballistic", as in bullet...

    [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.





    ---- On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Dennis P. O'Leary
    (doleary@h...) wrote:

    >
    Original Message
    > From: Ken Ambrose [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=Gv4RvskFp1WsV45sO7YHCKGxgszjswLgNzjp5uwLE3KVCqNPif8HGwl7V-t-ukXH88pFRvmfxQ]kenzo@u...[/url
    > Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 2:05 PM
    > To: Jay Hanson
    > Subject: Re: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] mini doppler radar or ?
    >
    > with enough thrust, pigs fly just fine.
    >
    > Ken,
    >
    > Thrust without guidance is called a free-fall trajectory.
    The result is
    > called SPLAT [noparse]:)[/noparse] .
    >
    > Dennis
    >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed with. Text
    in the
    > Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-06-19 13:36
    Here is a link to a digital transducer that might meet your needs. Output
    is NMEA (like a GPS) which is easy to read, or pulse output, also easy to
    read. The transducer is minimally intrusive, and mounts easily on a
    temporary bracket.

    http://www.airmar.com/whatsnew/cs4500-1.html

    William Thompson

    Original Message
    From: Jay Hanson [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=uTWAoqaOIrVnt55FheOGQ7OGapmZ0LyaUV9B1nw4iVdOrjbpfQfqqzDusQYwEYmZPoL1]j@q...[/url
    Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 6:03 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] mini doppler radar or ?


    I can get speed over the bottom with a GPS. If compare the GPS with
    speed-through-the-water, then I can calculate currents (which can be a knot
    or more).

    Jay

    Original Message
    From: Mike Walsh [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=sMWwYnKs9M-kFw3REwD-B1usi_fCaLGFQB8g7xoCatfPNtLvgniSw8Zj_YkmvVPJFiuVt-DSvp8Mv6IU]walsh@c...[/url
    Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 11:14 AM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] mini doppler radar or ?


    Don't you need to consider the direction and speed of the water flow around
    the boat, that is, the current?
    If you measured the boat movement vs the water speed in a kayak on water in
    a fast moving stream, you wouldn't get anywhere the correct real speed.

    At 05:05 PM 6/18/2001 -0400, you wrote:
    >How about a "drag" measure. Drag any small thing behind the
    >boat (doesn't need to be propellored) with an attached string
    >to a device inside the boat. Measure the force of the drag
    >from inside the boat, higher drag = faster through the water.
    >you are really measuring the water pressure against the object
    >as the boat moves forward...

    _________________________________
    Mike Walsh
    walsh@i...


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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-08-01 15:59
    On 17 Jun 01, at 9:00, Jay Hanson <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

    > That might work. Because of the paddles, I would have to trail it off the
    > stern and transmit the speed 20 feet forward to a display...

    This may be too late...

    We had some EG&G sidescan units & recorders. The recorders had an
    input for something called a "speed log". There was a small device about
    the size of an egg, with an impellor (impeller?). I believe it had a magnet or
    2 & a reed switch, and just sent pulses back to the sidescan recorder. It
    had about 30 metres of coax cable & you just threw it over the side
    somewhere out of the wake (we used an outrigger pole) & plugged the
    other end into the recorder.

    The speed pulses were used to control the speed of the paper moving
    through the recorder. It seemed pretty accurate for our purposes, but
    could be calibrated to give better results I guess. I can't find anything on
    this particular model on the Internet, but doing a search on "speed log"
    turns up 37 matches - some of them might be ok. Of course if you want to
    get really technical you need a 2 axis device which means going to doppler
    or similar - getting more expensive & bulky. The impellor gave very little
    drag.

    Dave
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