Basicstamp as an ignition module?
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Posts: 46,084
It should operate that fast.
Think of the rpm of an engine. 3600 rpm means 60 revs per second
means 600ms per revolution. the stamp2sx will measure all the way
down to .8microsecs.
If you use optical bands and sensors on the flywheel, you could make
the band as long as you wanted and measure the time with rctime, and
do some math to calculate the advance. The band wouldn't even have to
be exactly on TDC. The longer the band takes to pass the sensor, the
slower the motor is running and the later you make the ignition fire.
(theoretical numbers here, ok?)
engine is turning 750RPM (idle) rctime gets a count of 5000. count
to 5000 then fire the ignition.
engine is turning 3600RPM (cruising) rctime gets a count of 1000.
count to 1000 (earlier than before) and fire the ignition.
This has not been tested but in theory (and if my math is correct(and
I didn't do very well in math in school)) then it should work. You
may have to play with the length of the band or at least the cut-off
location of the band so that it fires the ignition at or close to TDC
at low RPM.
If the engine is a 4 stroke, you could use the cam for ignition,
basically doubling the numbers, making the math easier.
Let me know if any of this has merit. (And if it actually works in
application)
Doug
> To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> From: "Tom Hastings" <bummer46@h...>
> Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 20:17:38 -0000
> Reply-to: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Basicstamp as an ignition module?
> Surprisingly, I haven't seen any applications of this sort in my
> searching.
>
> Is the stamp fast enough to read a timing impulse from a gasoline
> engine, then output a signal to the power transistor which fires teh
> ignition coil? I'm mostly interested in small engines such as 1 or
> two cylinder motorcycles, where the frequency of the firing event
> would be maximum 160/second, or more likely 60-70 per second.
>
> Other possible functions would be pulse timing to read rpm, then
> output timing adjustment, based on rpm, for timing advance.
>
> But the main question is: will it operate that fast? I'm beginning to
> think not, due to the absolute lack of such projects among the
> hundreds of titles I've seen.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Think of the rpm of an engine. 3600 rpm means 60 revs per second
means 600ms per revolution. the stamp2sx will measure all the way
down to .8microsecs.
If you use optical bands and sensors on the flywheel, you could make
the band as long as you wanted and measure the time with rctime, and
do some math to calculate the advance. The band wouldn't even have to
be exactly on TDC. The longer the band takes to pass the sensor, the
slower the motor is running and the later you make the ignition fire.
(theoretical numbers here, ok?)
engine is turning 750RPM (idle) rctime gets a count of 5000. count
to 5000 then fire the ignition.
engine is turning 3600RPM (cruising) rctime gets a count of 1000.
count to 1000 (earlier than before) and fire the ignition.
This has not been tested but in theory (and if my math is correct(and
I didn't do very well in math in school)) then it should work. You
may have to play with the length of the band or at least the cut-off
location of the band so that it fires the ignition at or close to TDC
at low RPM.
If the engine is a 4 stroke, you could use the cam for ignition,
basically doubling the numbers, making the math easier.
Let me know if any of this has merit. (And if it actually works in
application)
Doug
> To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> From: "Tom Hastings" <bummer46@h...>
> Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 20:17:38 -0000
> Reply-to: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Basicstamp as an ignition module?
> Surprisingly, I haven't seen any applications of this sort in my
> searching.
>
> Is the stamp fast enough to read a timing impulse from a gasoline
> engine, then output a signal to the power transistor which fires teh
> ignition coil? I'm mostly interested in small engines such as 1 or
> two cylinder motorcycles, where the frequency of the firing event
> would be maximum 160/second, or more likely 60-70 per second.
>
> Other possible functions would be pulse timing to read rpm, then
> output timing adjustment, based on rpm, for timing advance.
>
> But the main question is: will it operate that fast? I'm beginning to
> think not, due to the absolute lack of such projects among the
> hundreds of titles I've seen.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Comments
searching.
Is the stamp fast enough to read a timing impulse from a gasoline
engine, then output a signal to the power transistor which fires teh
ignition coil? I'm mostly interested in small engines such as 1 or
two cylinder motorcycles, where the frequency of the firing event
would be maximum 160/second, or more likely 60-70 per second.
Other possible functions would be pulse timing to read rpm, then
output timing adjustment, based on rpm, for timing advance.
But the main question is: will it operate that fast? I'm beginning to
think not, due to the absolute lack of such projects among the
hundreds of titles I've seen.
Thanks,
Tom
We may have to put our heads together on this one. I've been thinking about
a digital ignition for a couple of old bikes I have. Something that replaces
the points and advance unit.
Original Message
> Is the stamp fast enough to read a timing impulse from a gasoline
> engine, then output a signal to the power transistor which fires teh
> ignition coil? I'm mostly interested in small engines such as 1 or
> two cylinder motorcycles, where the frequency of the firing event
> would be maximum 160/second, or more likely 60-70 per second.
>
> Other possible functions would be pulse timing to read rpm, then
> output timing adjustment, based on rpm, for timing advance.
Rodent wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
> We may have to put our heads together on this one. I've been thinking about
> a digital ignition for a couple of old bikes I have. Something that replaces
> the points and advance unit.
>
>
Original Message
>
> > Is the stamp fast enough to read a timing impulse from a gasoline
> > engine, then output a signal to the power transistor which fires teh
> > ignition coil? I'm mostly interested in small engines such as 1 or
> > two cylinder motorcycles, where the frequency of the firing event
> > would be maximum 160/second, or more likely 60-70 per second.
> >
> > Other possible functions would be pulse timing to read rpm, then
> > output timing adjustment, based on rpm, for timing advance.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Rodent wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
> We may have to put our heads together on this one. I've been thinking about
> a digital ignition for a couple of old bikes I have. Something that replaces
> the points and advance unit.
>
>
Original Message
>
> > Is the stamp fast enough to read a timing impulse from a gasoline
> > engine, then output a signal to the power transistor which fires teh
> > ignition coil? I'm mostly interested in small engines such as 1 or
> > two cylinder motorcycles, where the frequency of the firing event
> > would be maximum 160/second, or more likely 60-70 per second.
> >
> > Other possible functions would be pulse timing to read rpm, then
> > output timing adjustment, based on rpm, for timing advance.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Sorry for the three reply's but it just keeps getting better
Rodent wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
> We may have to put our heads together on this one. I've been thinking about
> a digital ignition for a couple of old bikes I have. Something that replaces
> the points and advance unit.
>
>
Original Message
>
> > Is the stamp fast enough to read a timing impulse from a gasoline
> > engine, then output a signal to the power transistor which fires teh
> > ignition coil? I'm mostly interested in small engines such as 1 or
> > two cylinder motorcycles, where the frequency of the firing event
> > would be maximum 160/second, or more likely 60-70 per second.
> >
> > Other possible functions would be pulse timing to read rpm, then
> > output timing adjustment, based on rpm, for timing advance.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
sensors and drive injectors! 14:1 baby.
There is a real good do it yourself injection site that includes ignition
circuits:
http://www.diy-efi.org. It is more MC68000 oriented but the high level stuff
is there to give you good info to port it to pic or bs.
-erik
Original Message
From: L .Gaminde [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=Ykxleym2HfY_Qd1XVBcYdUp1NsQYrHItozxBDSrtK5WIYN4G-R7vSdc6NwrZdOb7S4v3WfSb4gmS_g]lgaminde@t...[/url
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 1:37 PM
To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Basicstamp as an ignition module?
http://www.picnpoke.com/projects/coil.html
Sorry for the three reply's but it just keeps getting better
Rodent wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
> We may have to put our heads together on this one. I've been thinking
about
> a digital ignition for a couple of old bikes I have. Something that
replaces
> the points and advance unit.
>
>
Original Message
>
> > Is the stamp fast enough to read a timing impulse from a gasoline
> > engine, then output a signal to the power transistor which fires teh
> > ignition coil? I'm mostly interested in small engines such as 1 or
> > two cylinder motorcycles, where the frequency of the firing event
> > would be maximum 160/second, or more likely 60-70 per second.
> >
> > Other possible functions would be pulse timing to read rpm, then
> > output timing adjustment, based on rpm, for timing advance.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
you.
Chris
Original Message
From: Tom Hastings <bummer46@h...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:17 AM
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Basicstamp as an ignition module?
> Surprisingly, I haven't seen any applications of this sort in my
> searching.
>
> Is the stamp fast enough to read a timing impulse from a gasoline
> engine, then output a signal to the power transistor which fires teh
> ignition coil? I'm mostly interested in small engines such as 1 or
> two cylinder motorcycles, where the frequency of the firing event
> would be maximum 160/second, or more likely 60-70 per second.
>
> Other possible functions would be pulse timing to read rpm, then
> output timing adjustment, based on rpm, for timing advance.
>
> But the main question is: will it operate that fast? I'm beginning to
> think not, due to the absolute lack of such projects among the
> hundreds of titles I've seen.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> There is a real good do it yourself injection site that includes
ignition
> circuits:
> http://www.diy-efi.org. It is more MC68000 oriented but the high
level stuff
> is there to give you good info to port it to pic or bs.
=========
Thanks Eric,
I wasn't able to find the site, but it's apparently moved to:
http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/diy_efi/
however this URL timed out on me each time tonight. I have heard of
the group before, didn't remember it or know where it was tho'.
Tom
> http://www.picnpoke.com/projects/coil.html
>
> Sorry for the three reply's but it just keeps getting better
Thanks for the input...looks like it's not going to be as simple as I
thought.<g>
>
> Rodent wrote:
> >
> > Tom,
> >
also, from Rodent:
> > We may have to put our heads together on this one. I've been
thinking about
> > a digital ignition for a couple of old bikes I have. Something
that replaces
> > the points and advance unit.
Something like an SR500, I bet. With a bad $600 black box.(or
whatever outrageous amount they cost).
Tom
> >
> >
Original Message
> >
> > > Is the stamp fast enough to read a timing impulse from a
gasoline
> > > engine, then output a signal to the power transistor which
fires teh
> > > ignition coil? I'm mostly interested in small engines such as
1 or
> > > two cylinder motorcycles, where the frequency of the firing
event
> > > would be maximum 160/second, or more likely 60-70 per second.
> > >
> > > Other possible functions would be pulse timing to read rpm, then
> > > output timing adjustment, based on rpm, for timing advance.
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> http://www.picnpoke.com/projects/coil.html
>
> Sorry for the three reply's but it just keeps getting better
Thanks for the input...looks like it's not going to be as simple as I
thought.<g>
>
> Rodent wrote:
> >
> > Tom,
> >
also, from Rodent:
> > We may have to put our heads together on this one. I've been
thinking about
> > a digital ignition for a couple of old bikes I have. Something
that replaces
> > the points and advance unit.
Something like an SR500, I bet. With a bad $600 black box.(or
whatever outrageous amount they cost).
Tom
> >
> >
Original Message
> >
> > > Is the stamp fast enough to read a timing impulse from a
gasoline
> > > engine, then output a signal to the power transistor which
fires teh
> > > ignition coil? I'm mostly interested in small engines such as
1 or
> > > two cylinder motorcycles, where the frequency of the firing
event
> > > would be maximum 160/second, or more likely 60-70 per second.
> > >
> > > Other possible functions would be pulse timing to read rpm, then
> > > output timing adjustment, based on rpm, for timing advance.
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I went a head and bulild an injector controller by reading engine speed and
and Intake manifold pressure. My next step is to build an ignition module.
>From: "Tom Hastings"
>Reply-To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
>To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Basicstamp as an ignition module?
>Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 20:17:38 -0000
>
>Surprisingly, I haven't seen any applications of this sort in my
>searching.
>
>Is the stamp fast enough to read a timing impulse from a gasoline
>engine, then output a signal to the power transistor which fires teh
>ignition coil? I'm mostly interested in small engines such as 1 or
>two cylinder motorcycles, where the frequency of the firing event
>would be maximum 160/second, or more likely 60-70 per second.
>
>Other possible functions would be pulse timing to read rpm, then
>output timing adjustment, based on rpm, for timing advance.
>
>But the main question is: will it operate that fast? I'm beginning to
>think not, due to the absolute lack of such projects among the
>hundreds of titles I've seen.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Tom
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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This subject has indeed come up before on the STAMP list many years ago.
If I remember correctly, the general consensus was that a STAMP
was not deemed reliable. The main concern was that you wouldn't want
the unit to fail while you were operating the vehicle, perhaps inducing
a life threatening situation.
>Tom I was alos shocked to find out that there were no such projects.
>
>I went a head and bulild an injector controller by reading engine speed and
>
>and Intake manifold pressure. My next step is to build an ignition module.
>
> >From: "Tom Hastings"
> >Reply-To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> >To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Basicstamp as an ignition module?
> >Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 20:17:38 -0000
> >
> >Surprisingly, I haven't seen any applications of this sort in my
> >searching.
> >
> >Is the stamp fast enough to read a timing impulse from a gasoline
> >engine, then output a signal to the power transistor which fires teh
> >ignition coil? I'm mostly interested in small engines such as 1 or
> >two cylinder motorcycles, where the frequency of the firing event
> >would be maximum 160/second, or more likely 60-70 per second.
> >
> >Other possible functions would be pulse timing to read rpm, then
> >output timing adjustment, based on rpm, for timing advance.
> >
> >But the main question is: will it operate that fast? I'm beginning to
> >think not, due to the absolute lack of such projects among the
> >hundreds of titles I've seen.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Tom
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
Beau Schwabe IC Mask Designer
National Semiconductor Network Products Division
500 Pinnacle Court, Suite 525 Mail Stop GA1 Norcross, GA 30071
There are many other uses for engines besides propelling a people carrying vehicle, such as R/C airplanes, generators, water pumps, etc...
Original Message
From: Beau Schwabe [noparse]/noparse][url=mailto:bschwabe@atlanta.nsc.com]mailto:bschwabe@atlanta.nsc.com[/url
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 6:49 AM
To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Basicstamp as an ignition module?
At 12:51 PM 4/3/01 +0000, you wrote:
This subject has indeed come up before on the STAMP list many years ago.
········ If I remember correctly, the general consensus was that a STAMP
was not deemed reliable.· The main concern was that you wouldn't want
the unit to fail while you were operating the vehicle, perhaps inducing
a life threatening situation.
> Why dont you use a compiler ?
============
I need a little more info...your post doesn't include which post
you're replying to..
Tom
Compile your basic programs and program the PICs directly.
Compiled / programmed pics run hundreds of times faster than stamps.
Regards,
Darren
I can read the engine speed and Manifold pressure. All· I need is a pulse at TDC and BTDC.
Say I got a pulse at TDC. Say the engine is at 3000rpm. One cycle is 20ms.
The pulse is recieved at tdc. If the Map value for 3000rpm and atmopsheric pressure is 15 degrees BTDC. The counter value can be calculated as
(180- 15)/180 * 10 = 9ms
Using a programmable interval timer where a count of 1 = 0.031ms· then
the program can calculate a count of· 290 to be move to the interval timer.
complete equation = ((180- 15)/180 * 10)/0.031
·························· = ((180-Ignition Timing)/180 * 60/engine speed)/period of clock
The tdc trigger trigger the counter into counting. The output of theinterval timer goes low for the specified count. When it reaches zero it output goes high and this cuase the spark in the coil..
The btdc trigger prepares another counter/or the same for the piston on the compression stroke.
The ignition timing can therefore be placed on a 3D map of rpm versus pressure.
Question, what can be used to provide a rising edge trigger?????????????????
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engine application.
-erik
Original Message
From: Tom Hastings [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=M7zmvuZ9vNVuM4U4WkcmcML-cZEj7EfDsa9gxnyEqQslGXG_OUVFszzAr1Q-PTYj5k9QAabQlQ-G]bummer46@h...[/url
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 8:08 PM
To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Basicstamp as an ignition module?
--- In basicstamps@y..., "erik" <erikj@n...> wrote:
> There is a real good do it yourself injection site that includes
ignition
> circuits:
> http://www.diy-efi.org. It is more MC68000 oriented but the high
level stuff
> is there to give you good info to port it to pic or bs.
=========
Thanks Eric,
I wasn't able to find the site, but it's apparently moved to:
http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/diy_efi/
however this URL timed out on me each time tonight. I have heard of
the group before, didn't remember it or know where it was tho'.
Tom
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Original Message
From: fernando hood [noparse][[/noparse]mailto:hoodey@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 5:01 PM
To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
Cc: hoodey@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Basicstamp as an ignition module?
My fifth injector controller could be used as an ignition module by making a few adjustments.
I can read the engine speed and Manifold pressure. All· I need is a pulse at TDC and BTDC.
Say I got a pulse at TDC. Say the engine is at 3000rpm. One cycle is 20ms.
The pulse is recieved at tdc. If the Map value for 3000rpm and atmopsheric pressure is 15 degrees BTDC. The counter value can be calculated as
(180- 15)/180 * 10 = 9ms
Using a programmable interval timer where a count of 1 = 0.031ms· then
the program can calculate a count of· 290 to be move to the interval timer.
complete equation = ((180- 15)/180 * 10)/0.031
·························· = ((180-Ignition Timing)/180 * 60/engine speed)/period of clock
The tdc trigger trigger the counter into counting. The output of theinterval timer goes low for the specified count. When it reaches zero it output goes high and this cuase the spark in the coil..
The btdc trigger prepares another counter/or the same for the piston on the compression stroke.
The ignition timing can therefore be placed on a 3D map of rpm versus pressure.
Question, what can be used to provide a rising edge trigger?????????????????
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>From: "erik"
>Reply-To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Basicstamp as an ignition module?
>Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 12:52:59 -0700
>
>How many cylinders is the engine for these calculations?
>
Original Message
> From: fernando hood [noparse][[/noparse]mailto:hoodey@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 5:01 PM
> To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
> Cc: hoodey@hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Basicstamp as an ignition module?
>
>
> My fifth injector controller could be used as an ignition module by making
>a few adjustments.
>
> I can read the engine speed and Manifold pressure. All I need is a pulse
>at TDC and BTDC.
>
> Say I got a pulse at TDC. Say the engine is at 3000rpm. One cycle is 20ms.
>
> The pulse is recieved at tdc. If the Map value for 3000rpm and atmopsheric
>pressure is 15 degrees BTDC. The counter value can be calculated as
>
> (180- 15)/180 * 10 = 9ms
>
> Using a programmable interval timer where a count of 1 = 0.031ms then
>
> the program can calculate a count of 290 to be move to the interval
>timer.
>
> complete equation = ((180- 15)/180 * 10)/0.031
>
> = ((180-Ignition Timing)/180 * 60/engine
>speed)/period of clock
>
> The tdc trigger trigger the counter into counting. The output of
>theinterval timer goes low for the specified count. When it reaches zero it
>output goes high and this cuase the spark in the coil..
>
> The btdc trigger prepares another counter/or the same for the piston on
>the compression stroke.
>
> The ignition timing can therefore be placed on a 3D map of rpm versus
>pressure.
>
> Question, what can be used to provide a rising edge
>trigger?????????????????
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
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