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Voltage regulators

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2004-01-28 14:26 in General Discussion
try 78L05, low dropout version of 7805

Original Message
From: Pat Matthews <patmat2350@a...> [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=vW_4Sm-DTScqywAqFiAxXpebW7x5Zbbw5dQaFQSQPbf_HnFN4WfFRnEGqm743ItuG8GeGaZ5nvNA4w]patmat2350@a...[/url
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 12:19 PM
To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Voltage regulators


I think I need a primer on v reg's.
Just discovered that my generic 1A 7805's need >7.5v to output 5v.
I'm dealing with 7.2 and 6.0 v battteries, but need clean 5v for
certain components... and > 0.1A capacity.
What should I be looking for?
Thx, Pat M


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Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-12-21 04:18
    I think I need a primer on v reg's.
    Just discovered that my generic 1A 7805's need >7.5v to output 5v.
    I'm dealing with 7.2 and 6.0 v battteries, but need clean 5v for
    certain components... and > 0.1A capacity.
    What should I be looking for?
    Thx, Pat M
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-12-21 04:24
    What you want is a low drop out regulator. The LM2940 should do the
    trick - 1A, with a 6V input. Less if you are taking less than 1A.

    http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM2940.pdf

    Al Williams
    AWC
    * NEW: PAK-VIa - Read PS/2 keyboards or mice -- double the buffer, lower
    current consumption.
    http://www.al-williams.com/awce/pak6.htm




    >
    Original Message
    > From: Pat Matthews <patmat2350@a...> [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=7TLUCHcCI-ceD2On5sDJ17oq0OPYpREf2QDdWgO4hVeWwGFVTQNwcUqlBigyaH_Fg1Fu_noyYGQ]patmat2350@a...[/url
    > Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 10:19 PM
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]JUNK] [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Voltage regulators
    >
    >
    > I think I need a primer on v reg's.
    > Just discovered that my generic 1A 7805's need >7.5v to output 5v.
    > I'm dealing with 7.2 and 6.0 v battteries, but need clean 5v for
    > certain components... and > 0.1A capacity.
    > What should I be looking for?
    > Thx, Pat M
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
    > Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-12-21 05:01
    Parallax uses an LM2940 regulator, which is a 1 amp low-dropout regulator in
    the same package as a 7805. You do need to use the filtering suggested in
    the documentation as these things can go to lala land and drop out of
    regulation and get hot with out it. There are lower current versions of this
    as well which are a bit cheaper. I believe both Mouser and Digi-Key sell
    them. Here is the spec sheet.

    http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM2940.pdf

    Original Message

    > I think I need a primer on v reg's.
    > Just discovered that my generic 1A 7805's need >7.5v to output 5v.
    > I'm dealing with 7.2 and 6.0 v battteries, but need clean 5v for
    > certain components... and > 0.1A capacity.
    > What should I be looking for?
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2002-12-21 05:02
    Dang, Al beat me to the punch.

    Original Message

    > What you want is a low drop out regulator. The LM2940 should do the
    > trick - 1A, with a 6V input. Less if you are taking less than 1A.
    >
    > http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM2940.pdf
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-02 16:39
    I'm trying to understand voltage regulators and think I may be close. But
    the capacitors still confuse me. I've looked at some 5 volt circuits with
    the 7805 and they all seem to use different values for the capacitors.

    What does the capacitor do in these circuits and what is the impact of higher
    and lower values?

    thanks

    bob


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-02 18:47
    First, you have two sides to the regulator -- the input
    side, and the output side.

    The input side just needs to hold enough steady
    voltage to stay above the regulator's 'drop-out'
    voltage -- 10 uF cap typical -- even
    as the unregulated input voltage has lots of
    'ripple'. There are rule-of-thumb books for
    what the size of the input cap should be,
    based on ripple and amount of current
    to be drawn through the regulator.

    Output Side:

    First, you need to realize that the regulator is acting
    like a variable resistor -- any voltage over the rated
    voltage out is dropped in the regulator.

    Next, you need to realize that digital circuits have
    a very 'noisy' use of VCC (+5V). When you switch lots
    of gates simultaneously, there is a rush of current to
    support this, so for a short while (a 'transient')
    a larger amount of current is needed than average.

    Next, large capacitors are good for holding lots of
    charge (to support the current transient) BUT they
    don't have very good high frequency response, which
    means the beginning of the transient may not be
    well supported.

    Small capacitors have very good high frequency
    response, but then they run out of charge for longer
    transients.

    The best balance (on the regulator output side)
    is maintained when a large electrolytic
    (1 to 10 to 100 uF) capacitor is put in
    parallel with a small (.1 to .01 uf) capacitor.

    The actual values depend on what the designer expected
    in terms of transient current draw, and what
    rule-of-thumb book he read last, and what other
    'decoupling capacitors' (.1 uF for each TTL chip) are
    on the board.

    So: On the input, large capacitors support lots of
    current (with the limit being how much heat the
    regulator can dissipate before it goes into thermal
    shutdown). On the output, a small cap handles the
    start of transients, while the large cap allows
    larger/longer transients.

    Also: Large value capacitors tend to be physically
    large -- and above a certain value they aren't getting
    you anything, so you want the smallest value that will
    work.

    Too small of an input capacitor, and your regulator
    can't regulate -- input noise shows up on your output.
    Too small of an output capacitor, and when you have
    a sudden current demand (switch gates, motor starts)
    your voltage drops, and you get a reset.

    The 7805 literature should have the 'rules-of-thumb'
    mentioned above.

    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, eclecticrr@A... wrote:
    > I'm trying to understand voltage regulators and think I may be
    close. But
    > the capacitors still confuse me. I've looked at some 5 volt
    circuits with
    > the 7805 and they all seem to use different values for the
    capacitors.
    >
    > What does the capacitor do in these circuits and what is the impact
    of higher
    > and lower values?
    >
    > thanks
    >
    > bob
    >
    >
    > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-02 21:21
    Instead of a LM7805, consider a LM2940T-5. The 7805 requires
    about 2 volts to operate, so you must supply it with at least 7 volts.
    The 2940 requires only 0.3 volts to operate, so it can supply 5
    volts from a 5.3 volt (6 volt) supply. The 2940 is called a low
    dropout voltgae regulator. Both the 7805 and 2940 come in a
    TO220 form factor.

    Paul
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-02 23:54
    Another thing to worry about with the input capacitor.

    The rectifier needs to be big enough to handle the inrush current while the
    cap charges up, from the power down state.

    I run Stamp II's from 7805 regulators in very noisy industrial environments.
    I use a 2.5 VA 8 volt transformer, a 1 amp Dip Bridge Rectifier, a 3,300 uf
    input cap and a 300 uf output cap. The data sheets on the 7805 suggests the
    min capacitance on the output be 300 uf to prevent the regulator from
    oscillating.
    This has worked well with a Stamp II, a few digital chips and 16 Solid State
    I/O modules.

    Alan Bradford
    Plasma Technologies



    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-03 20:45
    Excellent. I did not mention the 'drop-out voltage'
    earlier -- but linear regulators (7805, 2940, etc)
    will only work if they are dropping a certain minimal
    amount of voltage -- and the more voltage they drop,
    the more heat they generate and the more power they
    waste (as heat). Below the minimum drop-out
    (7 volts for 7805) they cease regulating
    (it keeps at least 2 volts across itself).

    So, 'low dropout regulators' (like the 2940) were
    made which don't require such large drop-out
    voltage. 0.3 is VERY low. This solves several
    problems:
    1. You can use a 6-volt stack of batteries.
    2. Very little of your battery current is lost
    in the regulator.
    3. You can use more of the range of your
    batteries as they discharge (and lose
    voltage).

    Back to Capacitors: a battery source needs NO
    input capacitor, as a battery looks like a
    really, really good capacitor already.

    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, <verhap@o...> wrote:
    > Instead of a LM7805, consider a LM2940T-5. The 7805 requires
    > about 2 volts to operate, so you must supply it with at least 7
    volts.
    > The 2940 requires only 0.3 volts to operate, so it can supply 5
    > volts from a 5.3 volt (6 volt) supply. The 2940 is called a low
    > dropout voltgae regulator. Both the 7805 and 2940 come in a
    > TO220 form factor.
    >
    > Paul
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-04 02:32
    one thing about capacitors, typically they are used to attenuate
    frequencies as well as handle the load from current draw.

    also, when thinking of a voltage regulator as similar to a variable
    resistor, you get the same property and that is power. if you are
    feeding it with a voltage 5 times higher than the output (ie : 24 vdc
    supply with 5vdc regulated) you will be dumping a LOT of heat !

    Staging 24 > 18 > 12 > 5 will spread the heat out, but you will still
    be duming the same watts. that is one downfall of the little guys.

    Dave



    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, eclecticrr@A... wrote:
    > I'm trying to understand voltage regulators and think I may be
    close. But
    > the capacitors still confuse me. I've looked at some 5 volt
    circuits with
    > the 7805 and they all seem to use different values for the
    capacitors.
    >
    > What does the capacitor do in these circuits and what is the impact
    of higher
    > and lower values?
    >
    > thanks
    >
    > bob
    >
    >
    > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-05-06 17:24
    The capacitors provide 2 primary functions.

    1. They provide current for that very short length of time that it
    takes for the regulator to react to changes in load conditions.
    2. They provide stability. Many of the regulators will be unstable
    unless they have capacitors nearby.

    Now, that being said, there is a minimum amount of capacitance necessary
    to achieve stability. Unless you are looking at the notes from the
    manufacturer, you will likely see lots of different values. I generally
    use 10 uF on the input and the output.

    Note that in some instances I will use a 10 uF tantalum capacitor AND a
    0.1 uF ceramic. The tantalum takes care of the low frequency stuff (and
    provides stability) and the ceramic takes care of the higher frequency
    stuff.

    In general, so long as you have more capacitance than is suggested by
    the manufacturer for stability, any amount of capacitance will work<G>.

    Note that some of the three terminal regulators (like the 7805) like to
    see a minimum current drawn from them. It's hidden in the notes
    somewhere. So, I put a led on the output. This gives the minimum
    current draw, and is a great troubleshooting aid<G>.

    Make sense?

    Original Message
    From: eclecticrr@A... [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=ng_IzeWpK55TiUbnPRsNHaAD_DH8v3bnTJz_DLtrXfENYt3L7VK3tk45rG8c0dFi3h5OmaDGNykCNNMn]eclecticrr@A...[/url
    Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 11:39 AM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] voltage regulators


    I'm trying to understand voltage regulators and think I may be close.
    But
    the capacitors still confuse me. I've looked at some 5 volt circuits
    with
    the 7805 and they all seem to use different values for the capacitors.

    What does the capacitor do in these circuits and what is the impact of
    higher
    and lower values?

    thanks

    bob


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


    To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
    and Body of the message will be ignored.


    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-01-27 16:00
    I have decided that for my current measuring application I will use a
    200 milli-volt external reference. This will give a full 100 mv
    bi-polar range. Then for the voltage sources (0 to 5 volts) I will
    use the internal reference.

    My next question is: Does anyone know of a precision 5 volt regulator
    that I can use to power the TLC2543 Vdd and divider chain for the 200
    mv reference? Something in the 1% regulation range would be adequate.
    Bu using such a regulator I would feel better about the results.

    Russ
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-01-28 06:27
    Hi Russ,

    The National LM2950 (fixed 5v) and LM2951 (adjustable) are almost
    reference quality voltage regulators. The LM2951 is very nice, if
    you put a 10k pot in series with its internal voltage divider, you
    can trim it to make a fine 5.120 volt power supply, which makes the
    resolution of the ADC 1.25 millivolts per bit. Or as you suggest,
    divide it down to make a 200mv reference.

    -- Tracy




    >I have decided that for my current measuring application I will use a
    >200 milli-volt external reference. This will give a full 100 mv
    >bi-polar range. Then for the voltage sources (0 to 5 volts) I will
    >use the internal reference.
    >
    >My next question is: Does anyone know of a precision 5 volt regulator
    >that I can use to power the TLC2543 Vdd and divider chain for the 200
    >mv reference? Something in the 1% regulation range would be adequate.
    > Bu using such a regulator I would feel better about the results.
    >
    >Russ
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-01-28 14:26
    Thanks, the LM2951 sounds like it will do nicely. I found the TI
    UA723 which claims 0.1 mV/V precision for the 5 to 12 volt range. It
    too is fine-tuneable.

    Russ

    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, Tracy Allen <tracy@e...> wrote:
    > Hi Russ,
    >
    > The National LM2950 (fixed 5v) and LM2951 (adjustable) are almost
    > reference quality voltage regulators. The LM2951 is very nice, if
    > you put a 10k pot in series with its internal voltage divider, you
    > can trim it to make a fine 5.120 volt power supply, which makes the
    > resolution of the ADC 1.25 millivolts per bit. Or as you suggest,
    > divide it down to make a 200mv reference.
    >
    > -- Tracy
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > >I have decided that for my current measuring application I will use a
    > >200 milli-volt external reference. This will give a full 100 mv
    > >bi-polar range. Then for the voltage sources (0 to 5 volts) I will
    > >use the internal reference.
    > >
    > >My next question is: Does anyone know of a precision 5 volt regulator
    > >that I can use to power the TLC2543 Vdd and divider chain for the 200
    > >mv reference? Something in the 1% regulation range would be adequate.
    > > Bu using such a regulator I would feel better about the results.
    > >
    > >Russ
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