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Big Dot-Matrix LEDs / Mechanical Flip-Flop Signs — Parallax Forums

Big Dot-Matrix LEDs / Mechanical Flip-Flop Signs

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2001-01-26 13:02 in General Discussion
Hello,

We're planning out our booth for the Embedded Systems Conference in April
(San Francisco). The Parallax booth is *entirely* BASIC Stamp-controlled.
Everything from the 25 demos to the lighting, air circulation, and display.
In the land of 32-bit DSPs and expensive compilers it's great to find that
there's a place where you can press buttons, drive robots, and program
microcontrollers without needing a team of engineers. If you have ever
wanted to
talk to Parallax people or see the new stuff, this is the place. Plus, we're
there to see you. Free tickets will be available from our web site. That's
the marketing part of my message.

The reason I write is that our logo sign will be BASIC Stamp-controlled.
We've thought about using large Liteon LEDs, but unless we build an entire
array with every possible dot occupied we'd only build our logo which limits
what we could show on such a sign. The total dimensions of this illuminated
sign is about 1' x 6'. Before we commit to such a design, I'd like to know
if you have any better ideas and sources for the LED part.

For example, where can I find big dot-matrix LEDs that are intended to be
stacked to be a bigger size (we'd use Max 7219s to control them)? What about
huge Hitachi-compatible LED signs - like the type you've seen in banks or
airports. Or, how about a mechanical gizmo that flip-flops between red and
black dots -- sorta like the old airport or train station signs that show
departure info?

I've seen some panels from Noritake, but they are very expensive.

Sources, ideas?

Thanks!

Ken Gracey, Parallax
In January we'll introduce two ideas to put your BASIC Stamp
"on the net" to send/receive e-mail and data for web pages
Keep watch at www.parallaxinc.com for details
(916) 624-8333 ~ fax (916) 624-8003

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-01-25 19:53
    Ken,
    I have had great luck with the folks at Marktech
    Optoelectronics http://www.marktechopto.com/
    They have been very generous with their time and samples for large array
    project we have done in the past.
    Good luck.
    Mike

    At 11:30 AM 1/25/2001 -0800, you wrote:
    >Hello,
    >
    >We're planning out our booth for the Embedded Systems Conference in April
    >(San Francisco). The Parallax booth is *entirely* BASIC Stamp-controlled.
    >Everything from the 25 demos to the lighting, air circulation, and display.
    >In the land of 32-bit DSPs and expensive compilers it's great to find that
    >there's a place where you can press buttons, drive robots, and program
    >microcontrollers without needing a team of engineers. If you have ever
    >wanted to
    >talk to Parallax people or see the new stuff, this is the place. Plus, we're
    >there to see you. Free tickets will be available from our web site. That's
    >the marketing part of my message.
    >
    >The reason I write is that our logo sign will be BASIC Stamp-controlled.
    >We've thought about using large Liteon LEDs, but unless we build an entire
    >array with every possible dot occupied we'd only build our logo which limits
    >what we could show on such a sign. The total dimensions of this illuminated
    >sign is about 1' x 6'. Before we commit to such a design, I'd like to know
    >if you have any better ideas and sources for the LED part.
    >
    >For example, where can I find big dot-matrix LEDs that are intended to be
    >stacked to be a bigger size (we'd use Max 7219s to control them)? What about
    >huge Hitachi-compatible LED signs - like the type you've seen in banks or
    >airports. Or, how about a mechanical gizmo that flip-flops between red and
    >black dots -- sorta like the old airport or train station signs that show
    >departure info?
    >
    >I've seen some panels from Noritake, but they are very expensive.
    >
    >Sources, ideas?
    >
    >Thanks!
    >
    >Ken Gracey, Parallax
    >
    >In January we'll introduce two ideas to put your BASIC Stamp
    >"on the net" to send/receive e-mail and data for web pages
    >Keep watch at www.parallaxinc.com for details
    >(916) 624-8333 ~ fax (916) 624-8003
    >

    _________________________________
    Mike Walsh
    walsh@i...
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-01-25 20:10
    At 11:30 AM 1/25/01 -0800, Ken Gracey wrote:

    >For example, where can I find big dot-matrix LEDs that are intended to be
    >stacked to be a bigger size (we'd use Max 7219s to control them)? What about
    >huge Hitachi-compatible LED signs - like the type you've seen in banks or
    >airports. Or, how about a mechanical gizmo that flip-flops between red and
    >black dots -- sorta like the old airport or train station signs that show
    >departure info?

    Several people make the flip dot sign modules - Ferranti Packard makes the
    ones we used to use but the patents expired a while back and now there are
    several other manufacturers. You will also need row and column drivers
    appropriate for the electrical requirements of the modules which in turn
    depend upon the physical size of the modules.

    The modules we used to use are 18" tall and consist of 35 dots (5 columns x
    7 rows) addressed in a X-Y-Y arrangement. Each coil has 2 diodes
    associated with it, with each diode going to a separate Y buss - one buss
    for flipping the coil one way, the other buss for flipping the coil the
    other way. Its pretty easy to drive - I used plus and minus 18 Vdc feeding
    the drivers. F-P says to pulse each coil for a specific amount of time,
    but my driver controller board just monitored coil current and terminated
    the pulse once the current exceeded 6 Amps (F-P's recommended minimum
    current was 5A). Worked like a charm - the controller was all CMOS 4XXX
    stuff and the micro (in a separate box) was a RCA 1802. But a stamp would
    have no problems talking to my controller card - all you need is 3 bits for
    the row address, 6 or 7 bits for the column address, and 1 bit for the dot
    polarity (on or off). I'm pretty sure that other driver / controller cards
    are similar.

    I still have some of that stuff kicking around - we haven't built it for 10
    years or so but still get asked to service it once in a while (yep - some
    it is still out there working!). But there are probably US suppliers that
    might be closer to you.

    Let me know if I can help in any way.

    dwayne



    Dwayne Reid <dwayner@p...>
    Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA
    (780) 489-3199 voice (780) 487-6397 fax

    Celebrating 17 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2001)

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
    Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address.
    This message neither grants consent to receive unsolicited
    commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email.
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-01-25 20:36
    Sorry to bust in - but you may want to conatct Steve at Revelation
    Engineering in Bozeman, MT. R.E. fabricates the huge LED Video panels that
    are used in places like Las Vegas & NY's Times Square. I have stood in front
    of a 10 or 12 ft high by what seemed like 30 ft. wide panel while it was
    being tested, and it is awesome! Steve, et al, have probably become familiar
    with every type of light emitting device on the planet in the development of
    their product. They are friendly folks and seem willing to share info.
    Sorry, but I don't know their web site or Email.

    >
    Original Message
    > From: MIKE WALSH [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=7_bUjM1Klkz919QDtMBdV5G_3zKvPet_STzmtlsapaCFTlwXTjfXdU2rIR1fKS-FnA_7HQTnuA]walsh@c...[/url
    > Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 2:54 PM
    > To: basicstamps@egroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Big Dot-Matrix LEDs / Mechanical Flip-Flop
    > Signs
    >
    >
    > Ken,
    > I have had great luck with the folks at Marktech
    > Optoelectronics http://www.marktechopto.com/
    > They have been very generous with their time and samples for
    > large array
    > project we have done in the past.
    > Good luck.
    > Mike
    >
    > At 11:30 AM 1/25/2001 -0800, you wrote:
    > >Hello,
    > >
    > >We're planning out our booth for the Embedded Systems
    > Conference in April
    > >(San Francisco). The Parallax booth is *entirely* BASIC
    > Stamp-controlled.
    > >Everything from the 25 demos to the lighting, air
    > circulation, and display.
    > >In the land of 32-bit DSPs and expensive compilers it's
    > great to find that
    > >there's a place where you can press buttons, drive robots,
    > and program
    > >microcontrollers without needing a team of engineers. If you
    > have ever
    > >wanted to
    > >talk to Parallax people or see the new stuff, this is the
    > place. Plus, we're
    > >there to see you. Free tickets will be available from our
    > web site. That's
    > >the marketing part of my message.
    > >
    > >The reason I write is that our logo sign will be BASIC
    > Stamp-controlled.
    > >We've thought about using large Liteon LEDs, but unless we
    > build an entire
    > >array with every possible dot occupied we'd only build our
    > logo which limits
    > >what we could show on such a sign. The total dimensions of
    > this illuminated
    > >sign is about 1' x 6'. Before we commit to such a design,
    > I'd like to know
    > >if you have any better ideas and sources for the LED part.
    > >
    > >For example, where can I find big dot-matrix LEDs that are
    > intended to be
    > >stacked to be a bigger size (we'd use Max 7219s to control
    > them)? What about
    > >huge Hitachi-compatible LED signs - like the type you've
    > seen in banks or
    > >airports. Or, how about a mechanical gizmo that flip-flops
    > between red and
    > >black dots -- sorta like the old airport or train station
    > signs that show
    > >departure info?
    > >
    > >I've seen some panels from Noritake, but they are very expensive.
    > >
    > >Sources, ideas?
    > >
    > >Thanks!
    > >
    > >Ken Gracey, Parallax
    > >
    > >In January we'll introduce two ideas to put your BASIC Stamp
    > >"on the net" to send/receive e-mail and data for web pages
    > >Keep watch at www.parallaxinc.com for details
    > >(916) 624-8333 ~ fax (916) 624-8003
    > >
    >
    > _________________________________
    > Mike Walsh
    > walsh@i...
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-01-25 23:53
    Ken,
    How about a full-size lighted Parallax message blimp floating around the
    exhibit hall?
    Dennis

    Original Message
    From: Ken Gracey [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=FsP-EduE81rrdW-20CcSVsB3O4VBteQcxsJc60YeAmuDNbIMbsJkX5XtM1xgoKtqnOil8jJtiN-Q2JV2jhY0]kgracey@p...[/url
    Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 11:30 AM
    To: basicstamps@egroups.com
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Big Dot-Matrix LEDs / Mechanical Flip-Flop Signs

    We're planning out our booth for the Embedded Systems Conference in April
    (San Francisco). The Parallax booth is *entirely* BASIC Stamp-controlled.
    Everything from the 25 demos to the lighting, air circulation, and display.
    <deleted>
    Sources, ideas?
    Ken Gracey, Parallax
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-01-26 01:03
    "How about a full-size lighted Parallax message blimp floating around the
    exhibit hall?"

    That sounds awesome!!!!!

    Original Message
    From: Dennis P. O'Leary <doleary@h...>
    To: basicstamps@egroups.com <basicstamps@egroups.com>
    Date: Thursday, January 25, 2001 4:36 PM
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Big Dot-Matrix LEDs / Mechanical Flip-Flop Signs


    >Ken,
    >How about a full-size lighted Parallax message blimp floating around the
    >exhibit hall?
    >Dennis
    >
    >
    Original Message
    >From: Ken Gracey [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=VY2vKAevV-E06XtSrIccPc6chPowdSnZmrDm0ZSHgvooU6OKufs7OEvkt0h3_1gZcz9b22vGrlZpNiAwBw]kgracey@p...[/url
    >Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 11:30 AM
    >To: basicstamps@egroups.com
    >Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Big Dot-Matrix LEDs / Mechanical Flip-Flop Signs
    >
    >We're planning out our booth for the Embedded Systems Conference in April
    >(San Francisco). The Parallax booth is *entirely* BASIC Stamp-controlled.
    >Everything from the 25 demos to the lighting, air circulation, and display.
    ><deleted>
    >Sources, ideas?
    >Ken Gracey, Parallax
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-01-26 01:41
    >For example, where can I find big dot-matrix LEDs that are intended to be
    >stacked to be a bigger size (we'd use Max 7219s to control them)?
    >Sources, ideas?


    Hi Ken,

    I've picked up surplus matrix displays for experimentation in the
    past from Electronic Goldmine. <http://www.goldmine-elec.com>.
    Looking at their current catalog... I see they have an 8x8
    red-green-orange matrix 1.5" square (Liteon LTP14188A-01, Goldmine
    part#G1597) at $2.49 each, or 100 of them for $200. Let's see, a 1
    foot by 6 foot sign would take 8x8x6=384 of them. (And keep an
    intern busy for weeks, wiring it up!) The catalog has several other
    types too. They will surely not look quite as impressive as the new
    generation displays, but hey, it's what you say on it that counts!

    There is also the light-stick idea, like the project Scott Edwards
    did for a N&V article a few years back. The message is displayed by
    a time-muxed PIC (SX) chip as the light-stick swings around,
    appearing to be floating in mid-air. It could be brighter, 3-color,
    with today's leds.

    -- Tracy Allen
    http://www.emesystems.com
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-01-26 13:02
    Hi Ken

    I've Emailed Photos outside the group as I don't know if atachments
    work in the
    group.

    If just spent the last 6 months working on and building my own large
    LED
    displays.

    If this is what your looking for let me now and I'll give more
    details.

    PS item 1, is also a scrolling display with a few effects- (this is
    all done with 1 BS2sx controlling) - TIME/TEMP/Graphics/20
    messages/user input via radio

    Item 1

    240mm(9.5") x 240mm(9.5") PCB - DOTMATRIX
    holds 256 LEDS driven from 1 MAX7219 on board
    Supply 6v to 15v AC or DC

    Board can also hold
    BS2/BSsx
    DS1302 with super cap
    Radio Reciever
    Keyboard interface
    Temperature
    Atomic Clock Reciever

    Boards can be diasy chained together without showing a gap in the
    array
    The idea was to have 1 PCB housing a BS2sx and RTC etc, then X number
    of PCB
    chained together with only the MAX on board.

    We have a display using 2 rows of 7 PCBs -(19" high x 6' 8" long) -
    16 dots
    x 56 dots - 3584 LEDS - about 4Amps @ 6 vdc
    We also had a 4 row of 7 PCBs -(3' 2" high x 6' 8" long) - 32 x 56
    dots -
    7168 LEDS
    Each LED was 4200 mcd, (very bright for sunlight viewing)

    Item 2

    150mm (6") x 200mm (8") - STARBURST

    holds 64 LEDS driven from 1 MAX7219 on board
    Supply 6v to 15v AC or DC

    Board can also hold
    BS2/BSsx

    Boards can be diasy chained together without showing a gap in the
    array
    The idea was to have 1 PCB housing a BS2sx , then X number of PCB
    chained
    together with only the MAX on board.

    We have a display using 1 rows of 16 PCBs - 16 characters - 1024 LEDS

    Item 3

    Various 7 Segment PCB's
    Upto 420mm (16" high)
    Holding doulbe rows of LEDS



    Kind Regards

    Chris Hill BEng
    Director
    Instrument Installations Ltd

    --- In basicstamps@y..., "Ken Gracey" <kgracey@p...> wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > We're planning out our booth for the Embedded Systems Conference in
    April
    > (San Francisco). The Parallax booth is *entirely* BASIC Stamp-
    controlled.
    > Everything from the 25 demos to the lighting, air circulation, and
    display.
    > In the land of 32-bit DSPs and expensive compilers it's great to
    find that
    > there's a place where you can press buttons, drive robots, and
    program
    > microcontrollers without needing a team of engineers. If you have
    ever
    > wanted to
    > talk to Parallax people or see the new stuff, this is the place.
    Plus, we're
    > there to see you. Free tickets will be available from our web site.
    That's
    > the marketing part of my message.
    >
    > The reason I write is that our logo sign will be BASIC Stamp-
    controlled.
    > We've thought about using large Liteon LEDs, but unless we build an
    entire
    > array with every possible dot occupied we'd only build our logo
    which limits
    > what we could show on such a sign. The total dimensions of this
    illuminated
    > sign is about 1' x 6'. Before we commit to such a design, I'd like
    to know
    > if you have any better ideas and sources for the LED part.
    >
    > For example, where can I find big dot-matrix LEDs that are intended
    to be
    > stacked to be a bigger size (we'd use Max 7219s to control them)?
    What about
    > huge Hitachi-compatible LED signs - like the type you've seen in
    banks or
    > airports. Or, how about a mechanical gizmo that flip-flops between
    red and
    > black dots -- sorta like the old airport or train station signs
    that show
    > departure info?
    >
    > I've seen some panels from Noritake, but they are very expensive.
    >
    > Sources, ideas?
    >
    > Thanks!
    >
    > Ken Gracey, Parallax
    >
    > In January we'll introduce two ideas to put your BASIC Stamp
    > "on the net" to send/receive e-mail and data for web pages
    > Keep watch at www.parallaxinc.com for details
    > (916) 624-8333 ~ fax (916) 624-8003
    >
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