Converting to PIC chips...
I know this question has been asked (many times) before, but I can't seem to
find it in any of my old forum emails. So I'll ask again. It seems that
parallax has increased the price of stamps again, which puts them out of my
price range (give the hobbiest a _real_ price break, not just one that
uninflates the current price!). For the price of 5 BSIIs, I think I could
buy a PIC programmer/software. Just one minor detail: what
programmer/software do I need, and what chips will it program? I don't mind
learning assembly, in fact I think I would enjoy it. I just need some
cheap, good software that can program a wide varaiety of PICs. I was
looking in the Digi-Key catalog and it has millions of PICs (I can't figure
out the difference between most of them, except some of EPROM(meaning?) and
some are OTP (one-time programmable?). If I can get a reprogrammable PIC
that runs at 20mhz with a decent amount of program space for $10, that is a
little better than a $45 OEM stamp... I seem to remember people reffering
to a PIC programmer, and I take that to mean an assembly that you plug the
chip into to program (if it isn't, please explain). I found some software
in Digi-Key that costs $200, called PICSTART Plus Programmer. It says it is
a complete package, including a sample PIC chip. Is this a good choice (I
would like something cheaper, but if this is as good as it gets...)
Oh, one more question: what does the Xtal/RC mean in the "Oscillator Type
External" column of the PIC chip listings? Do all the chips require an
external oscillator? And if I am going to ask that, perhaps someone could
direct me to a website that says what all the little abbreviations mean
(like DIP, SSOP, SOIC, etc). Maybe this is too complicated for me, but it
would really make sense to have 5 of these in a robot instead of 5 stamps.
Which reminds me of another question [noparse]:)[/noparse] Can these things to serin/serout
like a stamp? I need a way of getting the 5 chips in my robot to talk to
the "brain" master chip.
Thanks ahead of time...
______________________________________________
FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
find it in any of my old forum emails. So I'll ask again. It seems that
parallax has increased the price of stamps again, which puts them out of my
price range (give the hobbiest a _real_ price break, not just one that
uninflates the current price!). For the price of 5 BSIIs, I think I could
buy a PIC programmer/software. Just one minor detail: what
programmer/software do I need, and what chips will it program? I don't mind
learning assembly, in fact I think I would enjoy it. I just need some
cheap, good software that can program a wide varaiety of PICs. I was
looking in the Digi-Key catalog and it has millions of PICs (I can't figure
out the difference between most of them, except some of EPROM(meaning?) and
some are OTP (one-time programmable?). If I can get a reprogrammable PIC
that runs at 20mhz with a decent amount of program space for $10, that is a
little better than a $45 OEM stamp... I seem to remember people reffering
to a PIC programmer, and I take that to mean an assembly that you plug the
chip into to program (if it isn't, please explain). I found some software
in Digi-Key that costs $200, called PICSTART Plus Programmer. It says it is
a complete package, including a sample PIC chip. Is this a good choice (I
would like something cheaper, but if this is as good as it gets...)
Oh, one more question: what does the Xtal/RC mean in the "Oscillator Type
External" column of the PIC chip listings? Do all the chips require an
external oscillator? And if I am going to ask that, perhaps someone could
direct me to a website that says what all the little abbreviations mean
(like DIP, SSOP, SOIC, etc). Maybe this is too complicated for me, but it
would really make sense to have 5 of these in a robot instead of 5 stamps.
Which reminds me of another question [noparse]:)[/noparse] Can these things to serin/serout
like a stamp? I need a way of getting the 5 chips in my robot to talk to
the "brain" master chip.
Thanks ahead of time...
______________________________________________
FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
Comments
writes:
find it in any of my old forum emails. ·So I'll ask again. ·It seems that
parallax has increased the price of stamps again, which puts them out of my
price range (give the hobbiest a _real_ price break, not just one that
uninflates the current price!). ·For the price of 5 BSIIs, I think I could
buy a PIC programmer/software. ·Just one minor detail: what
programmer/software do I need, and what chips will it program? ·I don't mind
learning assembly, in fact I think I would enjoy it. ·I just need some
cheap, good software that can program a wide varaiety of PICs. ·I was
looking in the Digi-Key catalog and it has millions of PICs (I can't figure
out the difference between most of them, except some of EPROM(meaning?) and
some are OTP (one-time programmable?). ·If I can get a reprogrammable PIC
that runs at 20mhz with a decent amount of program space for $10, that is a
little better than a $45 OEM stamp... ·I seem to remember people reffering
to a PIC programmer, and I take that to mean an assembly that you plug the
chip into to program (if it isn't, please explain). ·I found some software
in Digi-Key that costs $200, called PICSTART Plus Programmer. ·It says it is
a complete package, including a sample PIC chip. ·Is this a good choice (I
would like something cheaper, but if this is as good as it gets...)
Oh, one more question: what does the Xtal/RC mean in the "Oscillator Type
External" column of the PIC chip listings? ·Do all the chips require an
external oscillator? ·And if I am going to ask that, perhaps someone could
direct me to a website that says what all the little abbreviations mean
(like DIP, SSOP, SOIC, etc). ·Maybe this is too complicated for me, but it
would really make sense to have 5 of these in a robot instead of 5 stamps.
Which reminds me of another question [noparse]:)[/noparse] ·Can these things to serin/serout
like a stamp? ·I need a way of getting the 5 chips in my robot to talk to
the "brain" master chip.
Thanks ahead of time...
If you're willing to go as far as you indicate with PICs, why not save
yourself the learning curve and buy OEM chip sets (micro, EE and resonator)
from Parallax? ·Like with PICs, you'd have to build your own circuit, but
you'd get the ease of PBASIC and a better price than the Stamp modules.
You'd also get Parallax's support.
Keep in mind that Parallax is a business and there are costs associated with
keeping the doors open, new products in development and tech support folks on
the phone. [/font]
> will it program?
Have you considered the Ubicom (formerly Scenix) SX's? I have been using
them for some time, and really like using them. They're reprogrammable in
circuit, and using a product such as Parallax's SX Key, you can even debug
your program at full speed, in circuit. The SXs all have the ability to
execute one instruction per click cycle, giving 20ns execution at 50 Mhz.
As I recall, there are 75Mhz versions, and I thought I had heard of 100Mhz
versions at one time. Check out http://www.ubicom.com for details. Ubicom
also has a programmer of their own, but I've not used it. I got started
with the Parallax SX-Key several years ago, and have used it since.
A basic circuit with an SX doesn't even need an external oscillator
(although the internal clock is not generally considered stable enough for
precision timing such as required for serial i/o). My basic circuit
consists of an SX, a 50 Mhz Murata resonator, a resistor on MCLR, and
another on RTCC, and finally a reset switch on MCLR. You can configure the
whole works for about $10. For just a little more, add an inexpensive 7805
style regulator (note the 78L05 can't product enough current to run your
circuit AND the SX-Key at the same time, so I usually don't use the low
power version), a couple of filter capacitors and a full-wave rectifier, and
you have a circuit which can accept AC up to 25V (make sure you put a heat
sink on the rectifier if you go that high) or DC up to 35V (also make sure
you use filter capacitors rated for this voltage, if you go that high).
After you have a basic circuit, however, then you have to work for a long
time with the software side. It's no longer as easy as saying SEROUT ...
since there is no SEROUT command in Assembly. That's up to you to provide.
Fortunately, there are massive write-ups and articles on how to do that.
Once you have a library of routines, it's just a matter of implementing them
in each of the applications you work on.
I'm currently working on a routine which will read Dallas DS-1820's. The
board I've made has connections for 8 one-wire interfaces, each which
_could_ handle an entire one-wire network, but for ease, I'll probably just
put a single device on each bus. I'm now to the software part. Where
Parallax has just introduced a stamp which has a ONEWIRE command, I have to
write mine by hand, dealing with all the timing details, etc.
Hope all that helps.
-- Mitch
Fritz
Original Message
From: "Yanroy" <yanroy@u...>
To: "BASIC Stamp Forum" <basicstamps@egroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 10:58 AM
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Converting to PIC chips...
> I know this question has been asked (many times) before, but I can't seem
to
> find it in any of my old forum emails. So I'll ask again. It seems that
> parallax has increased the price of stamps again, which puts them out of
my
> price range (give the hobbiest a _real_ price break, not just one that
> uninflates the current price!). For the price of 5 BSIIs, I think I could
> buy a PIC programmer/software. Just one minor detail: what
> programmer/software do I need, and what chips will it program? I don't
mind
> learning assembly, in fact I think I would enjoy it. I just need some
> cheap, good software that can program a wide varaiety of PICs. I was
> looking in the Digi-Key catalog and it has millions of PICs (I can't
figure
> out the difference between most of them, except some of EPROM(meaning?)
and
> some are OTP (one-time programmable?). If I can get a reprogrammable PIC
> that runs at 20mhz with a decent amount of program space for $10, that is
a
> little better than a $45 OEM stamp... I seem to remember people reffering
> to a PIC programmer, and I take that to mean an assembly that you plug the
> chip into to program (if it isn't, please explain). I found some software
> in Digi-Key that costs $200, called PICSTART Plus Programmer. It says it
is
> a complete package, including a sample PIC chip. Is this a good choice (I
> would like something cheaper, but if this is as good as it gets...)
>
> Oh, one more question: what does the Xtal/RC mean in the "Oscillator Type
> External" column of the PIC chip listings? Do all the chips require an
> external oscillator? And if I am going to ask that, perhaps someone could
> direct me to a website that says what all the little abbreviations mean
> (like DIP, SSOP, SOIC, etc). Maybe this is too complicated for me, but it
> would really make sense to have 5 of these in a robot instead of 5 stamps.
> Which reminds me of another question [noparse]:)[/noparse] Can these things to serin/serout
> like a stamp? I need a way of getting the 5 chips in my robot to talk to
> the "brain" master chip.
>
> Thanks ahead of time...
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
> Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
>
>
>
>
for dos and windows,
you can also buy the me labs compiler you write the program like you were
writing for stamps when your done
you compile the program the compiler creates a hex file you take the hex
file and load it to a pic using the programmer.
also check out the melabs meloader for 14.00 us you can buy a 16f877 pic
with a bootloader in it so you dont need a programmer good way to go if you
wan't to try it.
here are some site for you to look at.
www.melabs.com
www.elproducts.com
www.rentron.com
good luck have fun
vic
Original Message
From: Yanroy <yanroy@u...>
To: BASIC Stamp Forum <basicstamps@egroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 7:58 AM
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Converting to PIC chips...
> I know this question has been asked (many times) before, but I can't seem
to
> find it in any of my old forum emails. So I'll ask again. It seems that
> parallax has increased the price of stamps again, which puts them out of
my
> price range (give the hobbiest a _real_ price break, not just one that
> uninflates the current price!). For the price of 5 BSIIs, I think I could
> buy a PIC programmer/software. Just one minor detail: what
> programmer/software do I need, and what chips will it program? I don't
mind
> learning assembly, in fact I think I would enjoy it. I just need some
> cheap, good software that can program a wide varaiety of PICs. I was
> looking in the Digi-Key catalog and it has millions of PICs (I can't
figure
> out the difference between most of them, except some of EPROM(meaning?)
and
> some are OTP (one-time programmable?). If I can get a reprogrammable PIC
> that runs at 20mhz with a decent amount of program space for $10, that is
a
> little better than a $45 OEM stamp... I seem to remember people reffering
> to a PIC programmer, and I take that to mean an assembly that you plug the
> chip into to program (if it isn't, please explain). I found some software
> in Digi-Key that costs $200, called PICSTART Plus Programmer. It says it
is
> a complete package, including a sample PIC chip. Is this a good choice (I
> would like something cheaper, but if this is as good as it gets...)
>
> Oh, one more question: what does the Xtal/RC mean in the "Oscillator Type
> External" column of the PIC chip listings? Do all the chips require an
> external oscillator? And if I am going to ask that, perhaps someone could
> direct me to a website that says what all the little abbreviations mean
> (like DIP, SSOP, SOIC, etc). Maybe this is too complicated for me, but it
> would really make sense to have 5 of these in a robot instead of 5 stamps.
> Which reminds me of another question [noparse]:)[/noparse] Can these things to serin/serout
> like a stamp? I need a way of getting the 5 chips in my robot to talk to
> the "brain" master chip.
>
> Thanks ahead of time...
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
> Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
>
>
>
I've found Peter Anderson's site very helpful.
http://www.phanderson.com/
Yanroy wrote:
>
> I know this question has been asked (many times) before, but I can't seem to
> find it in any of my old forum emails. So I'll ask again. It seems that
> parallax has increased the price of stamps again, which puts them out of my
> price range (give the hobbiest a _real_ price break, not just one that
> uninflates the current price!). For the price of 5 BSIIs, I think I could
> buy a PIC programmer/software. Just one minor detail: what
> programmer/software do I need, and what chips will it program? I don't mind
> learning assembly, in fact I think I would enjoy it. I just need some
> cheap, good software that can program a wide varaiety of PICs. I was
> looking in the Digi-Key catalog and it has millions of PICs (I can't figure
> out the difference between most of them, except some of EPROM(meaning?) and
> some are OTP (one-time programmable?). If I can get a reprogrammable PIC
> that runs at 20mhz with a decent amount of program space for $10, that is a
> little better than a $45 OEM stamp... I seem to remember people reffering
> to a PIC programmer, and I take that to mean an assembly that you plug the
> chip into to program (if it isn't, please explain). I found some software
> in Digi-Key that costs $200, called PICSTART Plus Programmer. It says it is
> a complete package, including a sample PIC chip. Is this a good choice (I
> would like something cheaper, but if this is as good as it gets...)
>
> Oh, one more question: what does the Xtal/RC mean in the "Oscillator Type
> External" column of the PIC chip listings? Do all the chips require an
> external oscillator? And if I am going to ask that, perhaps someone could
> direct me to a website that says what all the little abbreviations mean
> (like DIP, SSOP, SOIC, etc). Maybe this is too complicated for me, but it
> would really make sense to have 5 of these in a robot instead of 5 stamps.
> Which reminds me of another question [noparse]:)[/noparse] Can these things to serin/serout
> like a stamp? I need a way of getting the 5 chips in my robot to talk to
> the "brain" master chip.
>
> Thanks ahead of time...
>
> ______________________________________________
> FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
> Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
it will program the object files that you get out of the MPASM software
from Microchip.
I have the Picstart plus, and it's real nice. Professional piece.
Mark
At 08:22 AM 1/14/01 -0500, you wrote:
>This mirrors my current stage too.
>
>I've found Peter Anderson's site very helpful.
>http://www.phanderson.com/
>
>Yanroy wrote:
>>
>> I know this question has been asked (many times) before, but I can't
seem to
>> find it in any of my old forum emails. So I'll ask again. It seems that
>> parallax has increased the price of stamps again, which puts them out of my
>> price range (give the hobbiest a _real_ price break, not just one that
>> uninflates the current price!). For the price of 5 BSIIs, I think I could
>> buy a PIC programmer/software. Just one minor detail: what
>> programmer/software do I need, and what chips will it program? I don't
mind
>> learning assembly, in fact I think I would enjoy it. I just need some
>> cheap, good software that can program a wide varaiety of PICs. I was
>> looking in the Digi-Key catalog and it has millions of PICs (I can't figure
>> out the difference between most of them, except some of EPROM(meaning?) and
>> some are OTP (one-time programmable?). If I can get a reprogrammable PIC
>> that runs at 20mhz with a decent amount of program space for $10, that is a
>> little better than a $45 OEM stamp... I seem to remember people reffering
>> to a PIC programmer, and I take that to mean an assembly that you plug the
>> chip into to program (if it isn't, please explain). I found some software
>> in Digi-Key that costs $200, called PICSTART Plus Programmer. It says
it is
>> a complete package, including a sample PIC chip. Is this a good choice (I
>> would like something cheaper, but if this is as good as it gets...)
>>
>> Oh, one more question: what does the Xtal/RC mean in the "Oscillator Type
>> External" column of the PIC chip listings? Do all the chips require an
>> external oscillator? And if I am going to ask that, perhaps someone could
>> direct me to a website that says what all the little abbreviations mean
>> (like DIP, SSOP, SOIC, etc). Maybe this is too complicated for me, but it
>> would really make sense to have 5 of these in a robot instead of 5 stamps.
>> Which reminds me of another question [noparse]:)[/noparse] Can these things to serin/serout
>> like a stamp? I need a way of getting the 5 chips in my robot to talk to
>> the "brain" master chip.
>>
>> Thanks ahead of time...
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
>> Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
>
Engineering lab. The Epic costs about 1/3 of the PICStart and I find it
easier to use and faster to program. If I were to do it again I would not
buy the PICStart.
Tim
[noparse][[/noparse]Denver, CO]
>
> There are many pic programmers out there, main thing is to make sure that
> it will program the object files that you get out of the MPASM software
> from Microchip.
>
> I have the Picstart plus, and it's real nice. Professional piece.
>
> Mark
>
> At 08:22 AM 1/14/01 -0500, you wrote:
> >This mirrors my current stage too.
> >
> >I've found Peter Anderson's site very helpful.
> >http://www.phanderson.com/
> >
> >Yanroy wrote:
> >>
> >> I know this question has been asked (many times) before, but I can't
> seem to
> >> find it in any of my old forum emails. So I'll ask again. It
> seems that
> >> parallax has increased the price of stamps again, which puts
> them out of my
> >> price range (give the hobbiest a _real_ price break, not just one that
> >> uninflates the current price!). For the price of 5 BSIIs, I
> think I could
> >> buy a PIC programmer/software. Just one minor detail: what
> >> programmer/software do I need, and what chips will it program? I don't
> mind
> >> learning assembly, in fact I think I would enjoy it. I just need some
> >> cheap, good software that can program a wide varaiety of PICs. I was
> >> looking in the Digi-Key catalog and it has millions of PICs (I
> can't figure
> >> out the difference between most of them, except some of
> EPROM(meaning?) and
> >> some are OTP (one-time programmable?). If I can get a
> reprogrammable PIC
> >> that runs at 20mhz with a decent amount of program space for
> $10, that is a
> >> little better than a $45 OEM stamp... I seem to remember
> people reffering
> >> to a PIC programmer, and I take that to mean an assembly that
> you plug the
> >> chip into to program (if it isn't, please explain). I found
> some software
> >> in Digi-Key that costs $200, called PICSTART Plus Programmer. It says
> it is
> >> a complete package, including a sample PIC chip. Is this a
> good choice (I
> >> would like something cheaper, but if this is as good as it gets...)
> >>
> >> Oh, one more question: what does the Xtal/RC mean in the
> "Oscillator Type
> >> External" column of the PIC chip listings? Do all the chips require an
> >> external oscillator? And if I am going to ask that, perhaps
> someone could
> >> direct me to a website that says what all the little abbreviations mean
> >> (like DIP, SSOP, SOIC, etc). Maybe this is too complicated
> for me, but it
> >> would really make sense to have 5 of these in a robot instead
> of 5 stamps.
> >> Which reminds me of another question [noparse]:)[/noparse] Can these things to
> serin/serout
> >> like a stamp? I need a way of getting the 5 chips in my robot
> to talk to
> >> the "brain" master chip.
> >>
> >> Thanks ahead of time...
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________
> >> FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
> >> Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Engineering lab. The Epic costs about 1/3 of the >PICStart and I find it
easier to use and faster to program. If >I were to do it again I would not
buy the PICStart.
>
>Tim
>[noparse][[/noparse]Denver, CO]
That confused me quite a bit until I went back to the ME labs website and
looked at the Epic again. It is a programmer that you attach to a PIC to
program, right? And it is ALSO a program writer/downloader? Do I need to
buy anything other than an Epic to write programs for PICs? If I could get
a compete setup for $100, that sounds like a really good deal. The other
stuff I have been looking at is $200 and needs all kinds of weird stuff.
I have also been looking at the SX Blitz from parallax, and that looks good,
although I have been unable to check out the SX chips to see if the are
something I want (I didn't bother to intall acrobat reader on my new
computer because I plan to install the acrobat writer when I get around to
it...). The way I understand it, the Blitz is a complete setup for $70 but
doesn't have any debugging capability. I would rather use PICs if I can get
the stuff for only $30 more...
The whole PIC memory erase thing is confusing me too. The OTP can't be
erased, I get that. The EPROM can be erased with ultraviolet light??? That
seems odd. And the FLASH are electronically eraseable (just like a stamp,
i.e. d/l new program to replace the current one)?
Thanks for letting me occupy your time.
______________________________________________
FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
And the SX.
> The EPROM can be erased with ultraviolet light???
That's right ... don't forget the cost of an eraser if you go this way.
Also make sure you have 3-4 of each PIC you want to program, since it's a
_real_ pain to make a couple of changes to your code, then have to wait 5-15
minutes for the PIC to erase in a UV eraser before you can program it.
Never fails, about 1/2 way through the programming process, you realize
there is another code change you'd like to make and the process starts all
over again. Oh yeah, don't forget, you have to remove the PIC from the
circuit to erase it, unless you can figure a way to make your entire circuit
fit into a UV eraser <g>.
Don't get me wrong, Microchip makes a number of ICP (in-circuit
programmable) devices, I just like the SX's speed.
-- Mitch
writes:
<< yanroy@u... (Yanroy) >>
UNSUBSCRIBE.....NOW.....
unsubscribe instructions. This works much better than waving your fist
ineffectually at a mail server that doesn't care anyway. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
g.
On Tue, 16 Jan 2001 shirmel@a... wrote:
> unsubscribe!!!!!!!!!! now.....
>
>
>
>
starter chip is the 16F84 (or the newer A revision of it). They are about
$4 - $5 each and have 18 pins. They will do everything a BS2 will and more
as they have a timer and interrupts along with some eeprom non-volatile
memory.
The Epic programmer includes the software to download a hex file into the
PIC, but no the software to actually generate the hex file. For that you
need a compiler. If you want to try one for free you can go to
www.letbasic.com and download their basic compiler. The full version is only
$75 or so. The files either the shareware version of the full version
generate can then be put into the PIC using the EPIC. Another place to look
to get started low cost is Professor Andersons site (
http://www.phanderson.com/PIC/picstart.html ). He has a PIC programmer you
build on a breadboard for about $10 and is one of the least expensive
sources of PICs I have found.
Please contact me off list at timg@k... if you have more
questions as I don't want to be promoting PICs on the Basic Stamp list.
Tim
[noparse][[/noparse]Denver, CO]
> >I have the PICStart Plus from Microchip and an Epic Pocket Plus
> >from Micro
> Engineering lab. The Epic costs about 1/3 of the >PICStart and I find it
> easier to use and faster to program. If >I were to do it again I would not
> buy the PICStart.
> >
> >Tim
> >[noparse][[/noparse]Denver, CO]
>
> That confused me quite a bit until I went back to the ME labs website and
> looked at the Epic again. It is a programmer that you attach to a PIC to
> program, right? And it is ALSO a program writer/downloader? Do I need to
> buy anything other than an Epic to write programs for PICs? If I
> could get
> a compete setup for $100, that sounds like a really good deal. The other
> stuff I have been looking at is $200 and needs all kinds of weird stuff.
>
> I have also been looking at the SX Blitz from parallax, and that
> looks good,
> although I have been unable to check out the SX chips to see if the are
> something I want (I didn't bother to intall acrobat reader on my new
> computer because I plan to install the acrobat writer when I get around to
> it...). The way I understand it, the Blitz is a complete setup
> for $70 but
> doesn't have any debugging capability. I would rather use PICs
> if I can get
> the stuff for only $30 more...
>
> The whole PIC memory erase thing is confusing me too. The OTP can't be
> erased, I get that. The EPROM can be erased with ultraviolet
> light??? That
> seems odd. And the FLASH are electronically eraseable (just like a stamp,
> i.e. d/l new program to replace the current one)?
>
> Thanks for letting me occupy your time.