BS2 vs. Other PICs
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Posts: 46,084
Basic Micro has a great line of products and the tech support is outstandingthey have 2 basic compilers that are basic stamp compatable Pic n' Basicand Pic n' Basic Pro they also sell development boards and programmerstheir web page is www.basicmicro.com
Peter Anderson sells PIC's and other components at great service andprices his web page is at http://www.phanderson.com/ordering.html he hasthe PIC16F872-I/SP for $3.50 it has 22 I/O lines 5 of which can be configuredas 10 bit A/D, 2k Flash memory and more.
Good Luck
Peter Anderson sells PIC's and other components at great service andprices his web page is at http://www.phanderson.com/ordering.html he hasthe PIC16F872-I/SP for $3.50 it has 22 I/O lines 5 of which can be configuredas 10 bit A/D, 2k Flash memory and more.
Good Luck
Message: 10·· Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 17:53:38 -0000·· From: gliebetronics@hotmail.comSubject: BS2 vs. Other PICsInstead, I was wondering what type of PIC would be good to use as a
CHEAP replacement to the BS2.· I also have no idea how to·program anything other than (the really EZ to program) PBasic.· Is it·possible to make a program in PBasic and convert it into the language·a normal PIC (with no intrepeter) would understand?· One more thing;·If I get a pile of $8 PIC chips, I will need a programmer.· What is·the cheapest programming hardware that I could get for different·kinds of PICs?Thanks!·· -Dan
Comments
BS2. I am getting tired of designing all my projects so that the BS2
can be remoced, reprogrammed, and placed in the next project. I want
to be able to dedicate it to single projects but I am not going to
buy a bunch of Stamps for every thing I build. That would be way too
expensive. Instead, I was wondering what type of PIC would be good
to use as a CHEAP replacement to the BS2. I also have no idea how to
program anything other than (the really EZ to program) PBasic. Is it
possible to make a program in PBasic and convert it into the language
a normal PIC (with no intrepeter) would understand? One more thing;
If I get a pile of $8 PIC chips, I will need a programmer. What is
the cheapest programming hardware that I could get for different
kinds of PICs?
Thanks!
-Dan
gliebetronics@hotmail.com writes:
BS2. ·I am getting tired of designing all my projects so that the BS2
can be remoced, reprogrammed, and placed in the next project. ·I want
to be able to dedicate it to single projects but I am not going to
buy a bunch of Stamps for every thing I build. ·That would be way too
expensive. ·Instead, I was wondering what type of PIC would be good
to use as a CHEAP replacement to the BS2. ·I also have no idea how to
program anything other than (the really EZ to program) PBasic. ·Is it
possible to make a program in PBasic and convert it into the language
a normal PIC (with no intrepeter) would understand? ·One more thing;
If I get a pile of $8 PIC chips, I will need a programmer. ·What is
the cheapest programming hardware that I could get for different
kinds of PICs?
If you're going to go to that much trouble and don't know anything about PIC
programming anyway, you might consider buying OEM chips from Parallax. ·If
you buy your quantity needs up front, you'll get a decent break on the price.
·No, not $8, but then you won't have to buy a programmer either...[/font]
> I've never programmed any other microcontroller other than my single
> BS2. I am getting tired of designing all my projects so that the BS2
> can be remoced, reprogrammed, and placed in the next project. I want
> to be able to dedicate it to single projects but I am not going to
> buy a bunch of Stamps for every thing I build. That would be way too
> expensive.
Many folks get themselves to this position, and begin to explore programming
PIC's or
other microprocessors directly.
>
>Instead, I was wondering what type of PIC would be good
> to use as a CHEAP replacement to the BS2.
There are a good number of PIC processors available, some of them are
electrically erasable (similar to the Basic Stamp), and others that are
either considered OTP (One Time Programmable) or UV (Ultra Violet Light
Erasable)
parts.
A very popular low cost processor is the 16F84, which offers 12 I/O lines and is
Electrically reprogrammed.
>I also have no idea how to
> program anything other than (the really EZ to program) PBasic. Is it
> possible to make a program in PBasic and convert it into the language
> a normal PIC (with no intrepeter) would understand?
There are Basic Compilers available for PIC's that do a real nice job
of converting PBasic code or something very much like it, and
producing a file that you directly load into a PIC for execution.
A good website to go visit is http://www.melabs.com
MicroEngineering Labs also sells a real nice PIC programmer, as well.
(Please note, the only affiliation I have with MELabs is that of being a
customer.)
MELabs also offers a number of prototyping boards to ease the process.
I have been very happy with their support, and I'm sure others may
comment on their favorite suppliers as well.
I have also used products from Dontronics (www.dontronics.com)
and enjoy them as well.
> One more thing;
> If I get a pile of $8 PIC chips, I will need a programmer. What is
> the cheapest programming hardware that I could get for different
> kinds of PICs?
> Thanks!
> -Dan
>
There are a number of low cost programmers available, some you actually build
yourself, and others you buy, as both of the websites above show.
The bottom line is you'll invest some dollars on the front end, for a compiler,
programmer, etc; and will save money in the longer run. Keep in mind you'll
need
to provide suport hardware to run the PIC, like a crystal or ceramic resonator,
brown out
detection and power reset circuits, making it a little more expensive to use
than the
Stamp.
For my projects, I often use the Stamp as the prototype, and program a PIC for
the final
circuit. I will, however, build directly with a Stamp if I do not feel the need
to
recreate the circuit again, such as a "one of a kind" application.
Best Regards
Jim
>
>
>
flatpack with .0125" pin spacings. After you hook up the power and put a
pullup resistor on the MCLR_ and RTCC and X1 inputs you make a 4-pin header
that will connect to the programmer. The cheapest that I know of is the
SX-Blitz available from JAmeco electronics for about $50.00. The software to
run the Blitz is available from the Ubicom website. The will run like that
at 4mhz using an internal oscillator. They can be clocked at 100mhz with an
external clock that must be disconnected during programming. The programming
is ISP which means that you will not have to take your SX out of the circuit
to use. The trouble of soldering them in is well worth the effort; you can't
find a faster microcontroller. Regards - Keith Causey
> Dan; (and group)
> > I've never programmed any other microcontroller other than my single
> > BS2. I am getting tired of designing all my projects so that the BS2
> > can be remoced, reprogrammed, and placed in the next project. I want
> > to be able to dedicate it to single projects but I am not going to
> > buy a bunch of Stamps for every thing I build. That would be way too
> > expensive.
>
> Many folks get themselves to this position, and begin to explore
programming PIC's or
> other microprocessors directly.
>
> >
> >Instead, I was wondering what type of PIC would be good
> > to use as a CHEAP replacement to the BS2.
>
> There are a good number of PIC processors available, some of them are
> electrically erasable (similar to the Basic Stamp), and others that are
> either considered OTP (One Time Programmable) or UV (Ultra Violet Light
Erasable)
> parts.
>
> A very popular low cost processor is the 16F84, which offers 12 I/O lines
and is
> Electrically reprogrammed.
>
> >I also have no idea how to
> > program anything other than (the really EZ to program) PBasic. Is it
> > possible to make a program in PBasic and convert it into the language
> > a normal PIC (with no intrepeter) would understand?
>
> There are Basic Compilers available for PIC's that do a real nice job
> of converting PBasic code or something very much like it, and
> producing a file that you directly load into a PIC for execution.
>
> A good website to go visit is http://www.melabs.com
>
> MicroEngineering Labs also sells a real nice PIC programmer, as well.
>
> (Please note, the only affiliation I have with MELabs is that of being a
> customer.)
>
> MELabs also offers a number of prototyping boards to ease the process.
>
> I have been very happy with their support, and I'm sure others may
> comment on their favorite suppliers as well.
>
> I have also used products from Dontronics (www.dontronics.com)
> and enjoy them as well.
>
> > One more thing;
> > If I get a pile of $8 PIC chips, I will need a programmer. What is
> > the cheapest programming hardware that I could get for different
> > kinds of PICs?
> > Thanks!
> > -Dan
> >
>
> There are a number of low cost programmers available, some you actually
build
> yourself, and others you buy, as both of the websites above show.
>
> The bottom line is you'll invest some dollars on the front end, for a
compiler,
> programmer, etc; and will save money in the longer run. Keep in mind
you'll need
> to provide suport hardware to run the PIC, like a crystal or ceramic
resonator, brown out
> detection and power reset circuits, making it a little more expensive to
use than the
> Stamp.
>
> For my projects, I often use the Stamp as the prototype, and program a PIC
for the final
> circuit. I will, however, build directly with a Stamp if I do not feel
the need to
> recreate the circuit again, such as a "one of a kind" application.
>
> Best Regards
>
> Jim
>
>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> .
> e the circuit again, such as a "one of a kind" application.
>
> Best Regards
>
> Jim
>
>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> .
I ran into the same problem, wanting to "box up" completed projects. I
purchased the PicBasic Pro compiler, Epic programmer, and Zipper in-circuit
module from
http://www.elproducts.com/ You can save a few bucks by building your own
programmer, but I didn't think it was worth the bother. PicBasic Pro has
LCD support built in, which is often very handy.
I spent ~$300, but it is well worth it in the long run.
Bruce Reynolds at http://rentron.com/ is now selling similar packages.
Both sellers provide excellent support and are a pleasure to deal with.
Both sites have lots of info on using PICS for Stamp projects.
I still use BS2 Stamps for development, but just as often start right out
with PicBasic. The 16F84 is most often buried in projects, but you can also
program micros with onboard A/D converters.
Good luck,
Ray McArthur
Original Message
From: <gliebetronics@h...>
To: <basicstamps@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 12:53 PM
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] BS2 vs. Other PICs
> I've never programmed any other microcontroller other than my single
> BS2. I am getting tired of designing all my projects so that the BS2
> can be remoced, reprogrammed, and placed in the next project. I want
> to be able to dedicate it to single projects but I am not going to
> buy a bunch of Stamps for every thing I build. That would be way too
> expensive. Instead, I was wondering what type of PIC would be good
> to use as a CHEAP replacement to the BS2. I also have no idea how to
> program anything other than (the really EZ to program) PBasic. Is it
> possible to make a program in PBasic and convert it into the language
> a normal PIC (with no intrepeter) would understand? One more thing;
> If I get a pile of $8 PIC chips, I will need a programmer. What is
> the cheapest programming hardware that I could get for different
> kinds of PICs?
> Thanks!
> -Dan
> I am getting tired of designing all my projects so that the BS2 can be
> remoced, reprogrammed, and placed in the next project. I want to be able
> to dedicate it to single projects but I am not going to buy a bunch of
> Stamps for every thing I build. That would be way too expensive.
> Instead, I was wondering what type of PIC would be good to use as a CHEAP
> replacement to the BS2. I also have no idea how to program anything other
> than (the really EZ to program) PBasic. Is it possible to make a program
> in PBasic and convert it into the language a normal PIC (with no
> intrepeter) would understand? One more thing; If I get a pile of $8 PIC
> chips, I will need a programmer. What is the cheapest programming
> hardware that I could get for different kinds of PICs? Thanks!
One way to economize -as long as you don't mind a little soldering-
is with our new Stamp Stack II and Stamp Stack II-SX Kits. These
kits use genuine Parallax interpreter chips and have everything on
one 1.5" x 3" PC board: BS2 (or SX), serial connector, reset
switch, regulator,and access to the ATN line.
As a bonus, they are polarity protected so you can't blow them-up
by accidentally reversing the polarity (an LED show when you've
got it right). Stamp Stacks can mount directly onto any solderless
breadboard for quick prototyping, and are cheap enough to be used
in a dedicated project.
Right now, you even get a FREE serial cable with each kit:
http://www.hvwtech.com/stampstack.htm
Mark Hillier, VE6HVW
President, HVW Technologies Inc.
Canadian Distributors of Parallax Products and other Neat Stuff
Tel: +403-730-8603 Fax: +403-730-8903
NEWLY RENOVATED web site: http://www.hvwtech.com
same commands as bs1 aaaand bs2· then you compile and through the file into a pic wwith a programmer and your done.
if you don't want to buy a programmer look into the boot loader ,chips after you do from 2 to 5 chips the savings from stamps to pics will be enough to pay for the compiler .
www.elproducts.com
www.rentron.com
www.melabs.com
there are many others
they also have the picbasiclist you can join.
good luck.
Original Message
From: jonwms@aol.com
To: basicstamps@egroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 11:51 AM
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] BS2 vs. Other PICs
[font=arial,helvetica]In a message dated 1/3/01 11:55:41 AM Central Standard Time,
gliebetronics@hotmail.com writes:
BS2. ·I am getting tired of designing all my projects so that the BS2
can be remoced, reprogrammed, and placed in the next project. ·I want
to be able to dedicate it to single projects but I am not going to
buy a bunch of Stamps for every thing I build. ·That would be way too
expensive. ·Instead, I was wondering what type of PIC would be good
to use as a CHEAP replacement to the BS2. ·I also have no idea how to
program anything other than (the really EZ to program) PBasic. ·Is it
possible to make a program in PBasic and convert it into the language
a normal PIC (with no intrepeter) would understand? ·One more thing;
If I get a pile of $8 PIC chips, I will need a programmer. ·What is
the cheapest programming hardware that I could get for different
kinds of PICs?
If you're going to go to that much trouble and don't know anything about PIC
programming anyway, you might consider buying OEM chips from Parallax. ·If
you buy your quantity needs up front, you'll get a decent break on the price.
·No, not $8, but then you won't have to buy a programmer either... [/font]
"Homebrew Basic Stamp" http://www.phanderson.com/ $21 for the first
and $19 after that. This price is for the chips (same as are used in
the Parallax OEM Basic Stamp II) and components only. Professor
Anderson recommends using a solderless breadboard for mounting, which
may work in some cases and not others. I built one on a solderless
breadboard and another on a 2"x2.5" protoboard using wire wrap.
I have no affiliation with Professor Anderson other than being a
satisfied customer. He gives very good service and has great prices.
Original Message
From: <gliebetronics@h...>
To: <basicstamps@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 11:53 AM
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] BS2 vs. Other PICs
> I've never programmed any other microcontroller other than my single
> BS2. I am getting tired of designing all my projects so that the BS2
> can be remoced, reprogrammed, and placed in the next project. I want
> to be able to dedicate it to single projects but I am not going to
> buy a bunch of Stamps for every thing I build. That would be way too
> expensive. Instead, I was wondering what type of PIC would be good
> to use as a CHEAP replacement to the BS2. I also have no idea how to
> program anything other than (the really EZ to program) PBasic. Is it
> possible to make a program in PBasic and convert it into the language
> a normal PIC (with no intrepeter) would understand? One more thing;
> If I get a pile of $8 PIC chips, I will need a programmer. What is
> the cheapest programming hardware that I could get for different
> kinds of PICs?
> Thanks!
> -Dan
>
>
>
>
To: basicstamps@egroups.com
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 20:03:31 +0000
>MicroEngineering Labs also sells a real nice PIC programmer, as well.
After building two PIC programmers and neither of them working, I plumped
for MEL's Epic programmer (bought from Crownhill here in the UK). Worked
first time.
--
Regards, Derryck
/ The Cheshunt Computer Club /
/ The essential for your Atari /
/ Monthly meetings /
/ http://www.cix.co.uk/~derryck /
decided to go to jameco and geta few of these:
Jameco #145111 PIC16F84-04/P 18 Flash 4MHz 1K x 14 68B 13 i/o lines ...
$5.95
Jameco #14592 CY4 4.0MHz 20pf MCS-40/MC6802,8,9/CDP1802 ...
$0.79
This crystal will work fine right?
I've got some money to spend and figure it will be worth it in the long run
to get the PicBasic Pro Compiler ($249) and the EPic Programmer ($59.95)
You guys are right' It's expensive at first but I think I will learn a lot
from this. After the initial cost, the PICs are dirt cheap. I WILL still
use my beloved BS2 for prototyping but I will use PICs whenever possible in
my finished "boxed" projects. Thanks.
-Dan
>
Original Message
> From: <gliebetronics@h...>
> To: <basicstamps@egroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 11:53 AM
> Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] BS2 vs. Other PICs
>
>
> > I've never programmed any other microcontroller other than my single
> > BS2. I am getting tired of designing all my projects so that the BS2
> > can be remoced, reprogrammed, and placed in the next project. I want
> > to be able to dedicate it to single projects but I am not going to
> > buy a bunch of Stamps for every thing I build. That would be way too
> > expensive. Instead, I was wondering what type of PIC would be good
> > to use as a CHEAP replacement to the BS2. I also have no idea how to
> > program anything other than (the really EZ to program) PBasic. Is it
> > possible to make a program in PBasic and convert it into the language
> > a normal PIC (with no intrepeter) would understand? One more thing;
> > If I get a pile of $8 PIC chips, I will need a programmer. What is
> > the cheapest programming hardware that I could get for different
> > kinds of PICs?
> > Thanks!
> > -Dan
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
ceramic resonators with all PICs at:
http://www.rentron.com/PicBasic/PBP.htm
Email me before you place an order, and I'll include a FREE
PIC16F84A-20/P with 20MHz resonator, and PicMate Pro editor
on 3 1/2" floppy for free as well....
Regards,
Bruce
webmaster@r...
http://www.rentron.com
Original Message
From: "Gliebe-Tronics" <gliebetronics@h...>
To: <basicstamps@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] BS2 vs. Other PICs
>
> WOW, thanks all for the advice. I've taken it all into consideration and
> decided to go to jameco and geta few of these:
>
> Jameco #145111 PIC16F84-04/P 18 Flash 4MHz 1K x 14 68B 13 i/o lines ...
> $5.95
> Jameco #14592 CY4 4.0MHz 20pf MCS-40/MC6802,8,9/CDP1802 ...
> $0.79
> This crystal will work fine right?
>
> I've got some money to spend and figure it will be worth it in the long run
> to get the PicBasic Pro Compiler ($249) and the EPic Programmer ($59.95)
> You guys are right' It's expensive at first but I think I will learn a lot
> from this. After the initial cost, the PICs are dirt cheap. I WILL still
> use my beloved BS2 for prototyping but I will use PICs whenever possible in
> my finished "boxed" projects. Thanks.
>
> -Dan
>
>
> >
Original Message
> > From: <gliebetronics@h...>
> > To: <basicstamps@egroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 11:53 AM
> > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] BS2 vs. Other PICs
> >
> >
> > > I've never programmed any other microcontroller other than my single
> > > BS2. I am getting tired of designing all my projects so that the BS2
> > > can be remoced, reprogrammed, and placed in the next project. I want
> > > to be able to dedicate it to single projects but I am not going to
> > > buy a bunch of Stamps for every thing I build. That would be way too
> > > expensive. Instead, I was wondering what type of PIC would be good
> > > to use as a CHEAP replacement to the BS2. I also have no idea how to
> > > program anything other than (the really EZ to program) PBasic. Is it
> > > possible to make a program in PBasic and convert it into the language
> > > a normal PIC (with no intrepeter) would understand? One more thing;
> > > If I get a pile of $8 PIC chips, I will need a programmer. What is
> > > the cheapest programming hardware that I could get for different
> > > kinds of PICs?
> > > Thanks!
> > > -Dan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
That crystal should work fine, but you usually have to also add ~20 pf caps
from each crystal terminal to gnd. Also, the case is physically large. Use
a crystal when you need accurate timing as in a timing loop, but otherwise
the ceramic resonators are cheaper, smaller, and more convenient since they
have the caps to gnd built-in. The low profile crystals will save room when
you must use a crystal. Some people have had trouble getting the PIC to
oscillate with resonators and prefer crystals, but I never had the problem.
Ray McArthur
Original Message
From: Gliebe-Tronics <gliebetronics@h...>
To: <basicstamps@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] BS2 vs. Other PICs
>
> WOW, thanks all for the advice. I've taken it all into consideration and
> decided to go to jameco and geta few of these:
>
> Jameco #145111 PIC16F84-04/P 18 Flash 4MHz 1K x 14 68B 13 i/o lines
...
> $5.95
> Jameco #14592 CY4 4.0MHz 20pf MCS-40/MC6802,8,9/CDP1802 ...
> $0.79
> This crystal will work fine right?
i,m sure you won't b sorry,
have fun
victor
Original Message
From: Gliebe-Tronics <gliebetronics@h...>
To: <basicstamps@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] BS2 vs. Other PICs
>
> WOW, thanks all for the advice. I've taken it all into consideration and
> decided to go to jameco and geta few of these:
>
> Jameco #145111 PIC16F84-04/P 18 Flash 4MHz 1K x 14 68B 13 i/o lines
...
> $5.95
> Jameco #14592 CY4 4.0MHz 20pf MCS-40/MC6802,8,9/CDP1802 ...
> $0.79
> This crystal will work fine right?
>
> I've got some money to spend and figure it will be worth it in the long
run
> to get the PicBasic Pro Compiler ($249) and the EPic Programmer ($59.95)
> You guys are right' It's expensive at first but I think I will learn a lot
> from this. After the initial cost, the PICs are dirt cheap. I WILL still
> use my beloved BS2 for prototyping but I will use PICs whenever possible
in
> my finished "boxed" projects. Thanks.
>
> -Dan
>
>
> >
Original Message
> > From: <gliebetronics@h...>
> > To: <basicstamps@egroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 11:53 AM
> > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] BS2 vs. Other PICs
> >
> >
> > > I've never programmed any other microcontroller other than my single
> > > BS2. I am getting tired of designing all my projects so that the BS2
> > > can be remoced, reprogrammed, and placed in the next project. I want
> > > to be able to dedicate it to single projects but I am not going to
> > > buy a bunch of Stamps for every thing I build. That would be way too
> > > expensive. Instead, I was wondering what type of PIC would be good
> > > to use as a CHEAP replacement to the BS2. I also have no idea how to
> > > program anything other than (the really EZ to program) PBasic. Is it
> > > possible to make a program in PBasic and convert it into the language
> > > a normal PIC (with no intrepeter) would understand? One more thing;
> > > If I get a pile of $8 PIC chips, I will need a programmer. What is
> > > the cheapest programming hardware that I could get for different
> > > kinds of PICs?
> > > Thanks!
> > > -Dan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>