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A real quickie — Parallax Forums

A real quickie

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2000-10-19 14:57 in General Discussion
What about a resistor divider ? It is the simplest but not isolated.
AC Jacques

Chris Loiacono wrote:
>
> Help!
>
> Can someone show me how to get a 120V 60Hz line down to 10V 60Hz or less
> with few components?
> I want to use the line frequency on a stamp input. Actually, 10VAC would be
> perfect.
>
> C'mon - someone's gotta be able to figure this out with your eyes closed....

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2000-10-17 16:19
    In a message dated 10/17/00 10:14:45 AM Central Daylight Time,
    chris01@t... writes:

    > Can someone show me how to get a 120V 60Hz line down to 10V 60Hz or less
    > with few components? I want to use the line frequency on a stamp input.
    > Actually, 10VAC would be perfect.
    >
    > C'mon - someone's gotta be able to figure this out with your eyes closed....

    How about a small transformer and a half-wave rectifer (diode, i.e., 1N4001)?
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2000-10-17 16:28
    A transformer.

    Tim
    [noparse][[/noparse]Denver, CO]


    > Help!
    >
    > Can someone show me how to get a 120V 60Hz line down to 10V
    > 60Hz or less
    > with few components?
    > I want to use the line frequency on a stamp input. Actually,
    > 10VAC would be
    > perfect.
    >
    > C'mon - someone's gotta be able to figure this out with your
    > eyes closed....
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2000-10-17 17:18
    Help!

    Can someone show me how to get a 120V 60Hz line down to 10V 60Hz or less
    with few components?
    I want to use the line frequency on a stamp input. Actually, 10VAC would be
    perfect.

    C'mon - someone's gotta be able to figure this out with your eyes closed....
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2000-10-17 17:26
    Thanks, but...
    I forgot to say - no inductors - The circuit I'm controlling requires that
    there's no phase shift....

    Original Message
    From: jonwms@a... [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=yE_hO8AxwP5Nl29D-WQ5tjBcNstlw-4akq7OPKhcpPG8yMDymlC3XVUi3JJT-OwnHdMNvJXuIg]jonwms@a...[/url
    Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 10:19 AM
    To: basicstamps@egroups.com
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] A real quickie


    In a message dated 10/17/00 10:14:45 AM Central Daylight Time,
    chris01@t... writes:

    > Can someone show me how to get a 120V 60Hz line down to 10V 60Hz or less
    > with few components? I want to use the line frequency on a stamp input.
    > Actually, 10VAC would be perfect.
    >
    > C'mon - someone's gotta be able to figure this out with your eyes
    closed....

    How about a small transformer and a half-wave rectifer (diode, i.e.,
    1N4001)?
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2000-10-17 19:48
    ok, then how about a diode bridge (or half bridge) followed by a resistor
    divider?
    if you're only using it for timing you an use large resistor values..

    Jason

    Chris Loiacono wrote:

    > Thanks, but...
    > I forgot to say - no inductors - The circuit I'm controlling requires that
    > there's no phase shift....
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: jonwms@a... [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=FQQ_oPrpVqA29f_PKdqXt7YHz4C3fv9JQUyjUhIwKo9OJXEaeS3VGQVKnqor7cAfUgCRPIgg]jonwms@a...[/url
    > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 10:19 AM
    > To: basicstamps@egroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] A real quickie
    >
    > In a message dated 10/17/00 10:14:45 AM Central Daylight Time,
    > chris01@t... writes:
    >
    > > Can someone show me how to get a 120V 60Hz line down to 10V 60Hz or less
    > > with few components? I want to use the line frequency on a stamp input.
    > > Actually, 10VAC would be perfect.
    > >
    > > C'mon - someone's gotta be able to figure this out with your eyes
    > closed....
    >
    > How about a small transformer and a half-wave rectifer (diode, i.e.,
    > 1N4001)?
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2000-10-17 20:50
    You SHOULD have some isolation from the 120V !!

    A resistor divider is ok, but use it to power an opto-isolator instead of
    directly to a Stamp pin...

    100K 2.2K
    120V AC >----/\/\--o---/\/\---o----< 120V AC
    | 1N4001 |
    o----|<----o
    | OPTO-LED |
    o---->|----o

    //

    E (OPTO-NPN) C---< +10V (from Supply) ...See Note:
    |
    o--/\/\
    < GND
    | 4.7K
    o
    > Output (60Hz 10V DC)


    Note:
    Use a +5V supply if you are connecting the Output (above) directly
    to an I/O pin.


    >ok, then how about a diode bridge (or half bridge) followed by a resistor
    >divider?
    >if you're only using it for timing you an use large resistor values..
    >
    >Jason
    >
    >Chris Loiacono wrote:
    >
    > > Thanks, but...
    > > I forgot to say - no inductors - The circuit I'm controlling requires that
    > > there's no phase shift....
    > >
    > >
    Original Message
    > > From: jonwms@a... [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=l1oNwSpIf2do7dkNAE3PyCyJDkPncC0IJMtDvBBYfn61Ivtced8pJ1jSYqCZ6QNohMbsItKg]jonwms@a...[/url
    > > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 10:19 AM
    > > To: basicstamps@egroups.com
    > > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] A real quickie
    > >
    > > In a message dated 10/17/00 10:14:45 AM Central Daylight Time,
    > > chris01@t... writes:
    > >
    > > > Can someone show me how to get a 120V 60Hz line down to 10V 60Hz or less
    > > > with few components? I want to use the line frequency on a stamp input.
    > > > Actually, 10VAC would be perfect.
    > > >
    > > > C'mon - someone's gotta be able to figure this out with your eyes
    > > closed....
    > >
    > > How about a small transformer and a half-wave rectifer (diode, i.e.,
    > > 1N4001)?

    Beau Schwabe IC Mask Designer
    National Semiconductor Network Products Division
    500 Pinnacle Court, Suite 525 Mail Stop GA1 Norcross, GA 30071
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2000-10-17 22:54
    Chris:
    Beau is right...you must isolate from the line to prevent shocks and smoke.
    His optocoupler looks good. A cheap Radio Shack transformer could also be
    used. If the transformer has a constant load, the phase shift is fixed and
    could be corrected in software.

    Ray McArthur
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2000-10-18 20:52
    Optocoupler is also a good way

    With cap this optocoupler could be a sensor to detect 120V in another project

    In theese to ways you got insulation.
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2000-10-18 22:40
    Well, it's back to the board for me anyway......
    I got a nice 8V chopped AC wave, then tried to input it into a pair of
    comparators (339's), one inverted. The outputs in series should send a pulse
    at the zero cross. For some unknown reason, when I tie the AC into the
    inputs, it's as if they are being sinked away. I tried making current at
    different tolerable amounts, but to no avail.

    I'll try the opto circuit next. Does the transistor output provide an analog
    signal, or am I missing something?

    Chris

    Original Message
    From: Ray McArthur [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=KN_TojkJVsS7dvthJ9h4AefkEPF_9J_rHNUUAdUc3XQbWaL3YvcrYUiFYnnXTBCj1IT5J1dUjhThxSA13nNr]rjmca@u...[/url
    Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 4:55 PM
    To: basicstamps@egroups.com
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] A real quickie


    Chris:
    Beau is right...you must isolate from the line to prevent shocks and smoke.
    His optocoupler looks good. A cheap Radio Shack transformer could also be
    used. If the transformer has a constant load, the phase shift is fixed and
    could be corrected in software.

    Ray McArthur
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2000-10-18 23:39
    At 04:40 PM 10/18/00 -0500, you wrote:
    >Well, it's back to the board for me anyway......
    >I got a nice 8V chopped AC wave, then tried to input it into a pair of
    >comparators (339's), one inverted. The outputs in series should send a pulse
    >at the zero cross. For some unknown reason, when I tie the AC into the
    >inputs, it's as if they are being sinked away. I tried making current at
    >different tolerable amounts, but to no avail.
    >
    >I'll try the opto circuit next. Does the transistor output provide an analog
    >signal, or am I missing something?
    >
    >Chris
    >
    >
    Original Message
    >From: Ray McArthur [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=nuRyVHKQF_tXpY9BJ_kQxLNwLX3uMBphLJz9_xlgV00zgCPO4bq6OJ_MO8QfcnvbrcVPs7DpJSl2Hw]rjmca@u...[/url
    >Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 4:55 PM
    >To: basicstamps@egroups.com
    >Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] A real quickie
    >
    >
    >Chris:
    >Beau is right...you must isolate from the line to prevent shocks and smoke.
    >His optocoupler looks good. A cheap Radio Shack transformer could also be
    >used. If the transformer has a constant load, the phase shift is fixed and
    >could be corrected in software.
    >
    >Ray McArthur


    Ahh, see, now it makes sense why you didn't want the phase to be out of
    phase. [noparse]:o[/noparse])

    Without isolation, the AC act's like an antenna towards the 339's -- Not
    Good. [noparse]:o[/noparse](
    If you use two OPTO-Couplers (PS2502-2 from Digi-Key -- I think is a Dual?)
    and a few resistors (four) you can do this with isolation and without using
    339's

    (2) OPTO-LED-1 (1)
    o
    |<
    o
    | |
    47K | 4.7K | 47K
    120V AC >----/\/\--o----/\/\----o--/\/\----< 120V AC
    | |
    | OPTO-LED-2 |
    o
    >|
    o
    (3) (4)


    (5) (7) (6) (8)
    GND >
    o----o o----o---> Output (...goes High at ZERO)
    |
    | 4.7K
    o--/\/\--> +5V

    Note: (1),(2),(3), ... (8) Equals the pin number on the Dual OPTO-Isolator


    (1) - Anode LED 1
    (2) - Cathode LED 1
    (3) - Anode LED 2
    (4) - Cathode LED 2
    (5) - Emitter Transistor 2
    (6) - Collector Transistor 2
    (7) - Emitter Transistor 1
    (8) - Collector Transistor 1

    Beau Schwabe IC Mask Designer
    National Semiconductor Network Products Division
    500 Pinnacle Court, Suite 525 Mail Stop GA1 Norcross, GA 30071
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2000-10-19 14:57
    Beautiful! (no pun intended) I had taken a couple of MOC3010's out of their
    drawer, and believe it or not, was thinking similarly for a few brief
    moments. Then for some reason, I got dumb again, and put them away. The dual
    opto chip is perfect! just a handful of resistors & modest current too!

    I consider myself in your debt Beau, Thanks

    Chris

    Original Message
    From: Beau Schwabe [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=0lGm8Xf_7ZpZzrL79MPB0Qm0NFhDP1wk8gdk_rvN1ReqQzVPrmSsxK_aumH9gQkWQjDtho_i9WpBLoHasP2QZA]bschwabe@a...[/url
    Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 5:39 PM
    To: basicstamps@egroups.com
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] A real quickie


    At 04:40 PM 10/18/00 -0500, you wrote:
    >Well, it's back to the board for me anyway......
    >I got a nice 8V chopped AC wave, then tried to input it into a pair of
    >comparators (339's), one inverted. The outputs in series should send a
    pulse
    >at the zero cross. For some unknown reason, when I tie the AC into the
    >inputs, it's as if they are being sinked away. I tried making current at
    >different tolerable amounts, but to no avail.
    >
    >I'll try the opto circuit next. Does the transistor output provide an
    analog
    >signal, or am I missing something?
    >
    >Chris
    >
    >
    Original Message
    >From: Ray McArthur [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=kWQkpeNUBl0e3D2v0fkiFuvFYt-IaTI2HdeBVl6ikOGN9E17xs5uK2QsrF-2hwaBypdmuudzx4FNAWWn_A]rjmca@u...[/url
    >Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 4:55 PM
    >To: basicstamps@egroups.com
    >Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] A real quickie
    >
    >
    >Chris:
    >Beau is right...you must isolate from the line to prevent shocks and smoke.
    >His optocoupler looks good. A cheap Radio Shack transformer could also be
    >used. If the transformer has a constant load, the phase shift is fixed and
    >could be corrected in software.
    >
    >Ray McArthur


    Ahh, see, now it makes sense why you didn't want the phase to be out of
    phase. [noparse]:o[/noparse])

    Without isolation, the AC act's like an antenna towards the 339's -- Not
    Good. [noparse]:o[/noparse](
    If you use two OPTO-Couplers (PS2502-2 from Digi-Key -- I think is a Dual?)
    and a few resistors (four) you can do this with isolation and without using
    339's

    (2) OPTO-LED-1 (1)
    o
    |<
    o
    | |
    47K | 4.7K | 47K
    120V AC >----/\/\--o----/\/\----o--/\/\----< 120V AC
    | |
    | OPTO-LED-2 |
    o
    >|
    o
    (3) (4)


    (5) (7) (6) (8)
    GND >
    o----o o----o---> Output (...goes High at ZERO)
    |
    | 4.7K
    o--/\/\--> +5V

    Note: (1),(2),(3), ... (8) Equals the pin number on the Dual OPTO-Isolator


    (1) - Anode LED 1
    (2) - Cathode LED 1
    (3) - Anode LED 2
    (4) - Cathode LED 2
    (5) - Emitter Transistor 2
    (6) - Collector Transistor 2
    (7) - Emitter Transistor 1
    (8) - Collector Transistor 1

    Beau Schwabe IC Mask Designer
    National Semiconductor Network Products Division
    500 Pinnacle Court, Suite 525 Mail Stop GA1 Norcross, GA 30071
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