PCBs - Questions about drilling

Archiver

Homemade PCB's seems to be a very popular topic
lately. I guess I'm not the only one who is itching to
take the plunge. I'm knee deep in bird-nest-like bread
boards and downright scary looking point-to-point
soldered projects on perfboard. It's time for me to get
back into making PCB's, the modern way. Out go the
sharpie marker and rub on transfers, and in comes the
laser printer, transparencies, and presensitized copper
clad.

Enough rambling...let me get to my questions......

What sort of drilling setups are you PCB-literate folks using?
I've got a bench-top 1/3 HP, 5-speed drill press (Chinese, $54
delivered, typical crude Harbor Freight boat anchor). The run-out
alone makes it impractical to use with those tiny (brittle) carbide
bits. So I'm looking for a replacement. Has anybody here used
the small drill-press setup that Jameco sells? How about one of
the Dremel drill stands? Any other equipment suggestions? Thanks
guys.

Steve

Archiver

> What sort of drilling setups are you PCB-literate folks using?
> I've got a bench-top 1/3 HP, 5-speed drill press (Chinese, $54
> delivered, typical crude Harbor Freight boat anchor). The run-out
> alone makes it impractical to use with those tiny (brittle) carbide
> bits. So I'm looking for a replacement. Has anybody here used
> the small drill-press setup that Jameco sells? How about one of
> the Dremel drill stands? Any other equipment suggestions? Thanks
> guys.

I use the $35 drill press stand from Dremel. I get my carbide bits from
Kepro when I order presentsitized boards.

Paul

Archiver

> the small drill-press setup that Jameco sells? How about one of
> the Dremel drill stands? Any other equipment suggestions? Thanks

Bingo ... I have the Dremel drill stand and tool. Works great with all
bits, but I prefer the ones with the 1/8" shank.

-- Mitch

P.S. http://www.mcmaster.com has NEW carbide drill bits with 1/8" shank for
something like $8 each. They have no minimum order and their shipping
appears to be actual shipping, not some inflated shipping AND HANDLING fee.
I know they're more expensive than some of the surplus ones you can find,
but the price still seems reasonable for what you're getting.

Archiver

I really like the dremel setup, but I wish the work surface was a bit
smoother.. I'm thinking of replacing it with something that will make it
easier to slide the board across

Jason Lavoie



PicProgrammer@a... wrote:

> Homemade PCB's seems to be a very popular topic
> lately. I guess I'm not the only one who is itching to
> take the plunge. I'm knee deep in bird-nest-like bread
> boards and downright scary looking point-to-point
> soldered projects on perfboard. It's time for me to get
> back into making PCB's, the modern way. Out go the
> sharpie marker and rub on transfers, and in comes the
> laser printer, transparencies, and presensitized copper
> clad.
>
> Enough rambling...let me get to my questions......
>
> What sort of drilling setups are you PCB-literate folks using?
> I've got a bench-top 1/3 HP, 5-speed drill press (Chinese, $54
> delivered, typical crude Harbor Freight boat anchor). The run-out
> alone makes it impractical to use with those tiny (brittle) carbide
> bits. So I'm looking for a replacement. Has anybody here used
> the small drill-press setup that Jameco sells? How about one of
> the Dremel drill stands? Any other equipment suggestions? Thanks
> guys.
>
> Steve

Archiver

> I really like the dremel setup, but I wish the work surface was a bit
> smoother.. I'm thinking of replacing it with something that
> will make it
> easier to slide the board across
>
> Jason Lavoie

Here, here.
When ever I drill, it leaves dark markings on the PCB. I've since covered
the drill surface with a sheet of plain paper. Afterwards I punched a hole
in the center. This has made drilling 100% better.

Paul

Archiver

>
> What sort of drilling setups are you PCB-literate folks using?
> I've got a bench-top 1/3 HP, 5-speed drill press (Chinese, $54
> delivered, typical crude Harbor Freight boat anchor). The run-out
> alone makes it impractical to use with those tiny (brittle) carbide
> bits. So I'm looking for a replacement. Has anybody here used
> the small drill-press setup that Jameco sells? How about one of
> the Dremel drill stands? Any other equipment suggestions? Thanks
> guys.

Also bench drills are a bit slow. You want high speed for carbide. That
Jameco unit looks the same as one I picked up at a r/c swap. It too has
some bad runout. The Dremel would be your best bet. I have even seen a
project to CNC it(the newer type).

Archiver

Hi Steve,



I too use a Harbor Freight drill press. I bought mine for about
$39.00 about 15 years ago. It still works great. I also bought a
hobby press from them with a 1/10 hp motor but have not used it as
yet. If I move up it'll be to a Dremel.

I use the tiny pin thick drills to drill all my holes. I start with
a 0.016" dia drill and drill everything.
Then I use a larger drill for the holes that need it. I use a
special holder for the tiny shaft, and I don't use the huge 1/8
shaft : ) drills. Since my biggest problem in lining up the holes
for the BS2, and since I use a prom carrier, I don't really run
into
a big problem from the holes being slightly out of line. (which they
routinely are). Resistors and caps are never a problem.

If you've been following these threads, then you probably know I
use
the laser transfer method. One comment about it is that I would only
recommend it for thick traces, no traces between leads, and I would
only consider it for single sided boards. One benefit from a more
open layout is that you can come back and add a few resistors or a
cap here and there, or even a whole RC circuit if you don't mind
a
few wires over your traces.

I've attached a simple (partial) circuit that I had done,
obviously
showing the Stamp part. This worked well for my laser/transfer
method. As you can see, the traces are thick and none are run
between the pins of the Stamp or the op-amps.

(From eGroups, go to Files then TRACES.GIF I couldn't figure out
how to put the link here.)

If you are doing a prototype, this would be a simple start. If your
design is tight with traces between leads, consider having it made or
do the UV process. It's tedious to mark up tiny traces and if
you
miss, the board may be junk.

I too have really enjoyed this thread and it may be one of the most
commented set of threads in this group. I certainly learned a lot
from everybody who contributed and I'm looking forward to the
December article on the UV method.

Dave



--- In basicstamps@egroups.com, PicProgrammer@a... wrote:
>
> Homemade PCB's seems to be a very popular topic
> lately. I guess I'm not the only one who is itching to
> take the plunge. I'm knee deep in bird-nest-like bread
> boards and downright scary looking point-to-point
> soldered projects on perfboard. It's time for me to get
> back into making PCB's, the modern way. Out go the
> sharpie marker and rub on transfers, and in comes the
> laser printer, transparencies, and presensitized copper
> clad.
>
> Enough rambling...let me get to my questions......
>
> What sort of drilling setups are you PCB-literate folks using?
> I've got a bench-top 1/3 HP, 5-speed drill press (Chinese, $54
> delivered, typical crude Harbor Freight boat anchor). The run-out
> alone makes it impractical to use with those tiny (brittle) carbide
> bits. So I'm looking for a replacement. Has anybody here used
> the small drill-press setup that Jameco sells? How about one of
> the Dremel drill stands? Any other equipment suggestions? Thanks
> guys.
>
> Steve

Archiver

Steve & Dave,
You might want to check the "Small-Hole Driller" attachment from
McMaster-Carr. This device has a 1/2" shank that goes right into your drill
press chuck. It will give you very good "touch" with small drills. I've
been using it for year with great success.
Check part # 3100A45 on their site http://www.mcmaster.com/.
good luck,
Mike


At 08:03 PM 10/5/00 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi Steve,
>
>
>
>I too use a Harbor Freight drill press. I bought mine for about
>$39.00 about 15 years ago. It still works great. I also bought a
>hobby press from them with a 1/10 hp motor but have not used it as
>yet. If I move up it'll be to a Dremel.
>
>I use the tiny pin thick drills to drill all my holes. I start with
>a 0.016" dia drill and drill everything.
>Then I use a larger drill for the holes that need it. I use a
>special holder for the tiny shaft, and I don't use the huge 1/8
>shaft : ) drills. Since my biggest problem in lining up the holes
>for the BS2, and since I use a prom carrier, I don't really run
>into
>a big problem from the holes being slightly out of line. (which they
>routinely are). Resistors and caps are never a problem.
>
>If you've been following these threads, then you probably know I
>use
>the laser transfer method. One comment about it is that I would only
>recommend it for thick traces, no traces between leads, and I would
>only consider it for single sided boards. One benefit from a more
>open layout is that you can come back and add a few resistors or a
>cap here and there, or even a whole RC circuit if you don't mind
>a
>few wires over your traces.
>
>I've attached a simple (partial) circuit that I had done,
>obviously
>showing the Stamp part. This worked well for my laser/transfer
>method. As you can see, the traces are thick and none are run
>between the pins of the Stamp or the op-amps.
>
>(From eGroups, go to Files then TRACES.GIF I couldn't figure out
>how to put the link here.)
>
>If you are doing a prototype, this would be a simple start. If your
>design is tight with traces between leads, consider having it made or
>do the UV process. It's tedious to mark up tiny traces and if
>you
>miss, the board may be junk.
>
>I too have really enjoyed this thread and it may be one of the most
>commented set of threads in this group. I certainly learned a lot
>from everybody who contributed and I'm looking forward to the
>December article on the UV method.
>
>Dave
>
>
>
>--- In basicstamps@egroups.com, PicProgrammer@a... wrote:
> >
> > Homemade PCB's seems to be a very popular topic
> > lately. I guess I'm not the only one who is itching to
> > take the plunge. I'm knee deep in bird-nest-like bread
> > boards and downright scary looking point-to-point
> > soldered projects on perfboard. It's time for me to get
> > back into making PCB's, the modern way. Out go the
> > sharpie marker and rub on transfers, and in comes the
> > laser printer, transparencies, and presensitized copper
> > clad.
> >
> > Enough rambling...let me get to my questions......
> >
> > What sort of drilling setups are you PCB-literate folks using?
> > I've got a bench-top 1/3 HP, 5-speed drill press (Chinese, $54
> > delivered, typical crude Harbor Freight boat anchor). The run-out
> > alone makes it impractical to use with those tiny (brittle) carbide
> > bits. So I'm looking for a replacement. Has anybody here used
> > the small drill-press setup that Jameco sells? How about one of
> > the Dremel drill stands? Any other equipment suggestions? Thanks
> > guys.
> >
> > Steve

_________________________________
Mike Walsh

Archiver

In a message dated 10/5/00 11:34:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
miked@t... writes:

<< Also bench drills are a bit slow. You want high speed for carbide. >>

That's yet another problem with the big press. With 3100 RPM max it
is fine for general woodworking/metalworking chores. But when you get
down to size #60 bits, drilling into FRP, I believe the optimum drilling
speed is closer to 30,000 RPM than 3,000 RPM.

<<The Dremel would be your best bet. I have even seen a
project to CNC it(the newer type). >>

Was that the HobbyCNC set of plans? One of these days, one
of these days. ((((drool))))

Steve

Archiver

In a message dated 10/5/00 4:13:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
davemucha@j... writes:

<< I use the tiny pin thick drills to drill all my holes. I start with
a 0.016" dia drill and drill everything. >>

A number #78 drill in a Harbor Freight drill press??? You are one
brave man, Dave! ;-) Are you using carbide bits?

<<If your design is tight with traces between leads, consider
having it made or do the UV process.>>

That's the process I've decided to go with. I was looking at the
Dyna Art system, but the whole setup cost more than I was
willing to spend for the low volume of boards I'll be making. Nice
system, though.

The PNP film looked very promising too, but results among users
seemed to be pretty hit or miss. Is that the product you are using, Dave?

Steve

Archiver

Thanks for the tip, Mike. What a nifty gadget. There might
be some hope for the old press after all! [noparse]:)[/noparse]

Steve

<< You might want to check the "Small-Hole Driller" attachment from
McMaster-Carr. This device has a 1/2" shank that goes right into your drill
press chuck. It will give you very good "touch" with small drills. I've
been using it for year with great success.
Check part # 3100A45 on their site http://www.mcmaster.com/. >>

Archiver

Hi Steve,

Yes a #78 drill bit all high speed steel. I don't mind if a one
dollar drill breaks, but breaking a 7 dollar carbide is hard to
swallow. I had purchased a Radio Shack hand drill and removed the
drill bit holder, threw it in my drill chuck and
drilled away. I find if my holes are withing about 0.02
everything fits well, and that's not hard to do by eye.

I typicaly use removable labels I buy at the wholesale club. They
cost abnout 8 dollars for 25 labels and so far I haven't had a
problem.

If you looked at the gif I posted in the 'files' area you
can see why this works for me. really wide traces, no close lines
etc.

Dave



--- In basicstamps@egroups.com, PicProgrammer@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 10/5/00 4:13:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> davemucha@j... writes:
>
> << I use the tiny pin thick drills to drill all my holes. I start
with
> a 0.016" dia drill and drill everything. >>
>
> A number #78 drill in a Harbor Freight drill press??? You are one
> brave man, Dave! ;-) Are you using carbide bits?
>
> <<If your design is tight with traces between leads, consider
> having it made or do the UV process.>>
>
> That's the process I've decided to go with. I was looking at the
> Dyna Art system, but the whole setup cost more than I was
> willing to spend for the low volume of boards I'll be making. Nice
> system, though.
>
> The PNP film looked very promising too, but results among users
> seemed to be pretty hit or miss. Is that the product you are using,
Dave?
>
> Steve

Archiver

>
> <<The Dremel would be your best bet. I have even seen a
> project to CNC it(the newer type). >>
>
> Was that the HobbyCNC set of plans? One of these days, one
> of these days. ((((drool))))
>
I think it was at Dan Mauch's site. It used drawer slides for the table.