Solenoids and X10
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Posts: 46,084
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm new to electronics, but do have
extensive background in programming...
2 Questions...
I've have a BSII (with the Board of Education) and have read the manual
v1.9, the full stamps in class book, and the full robotics book. In almost
everyone of these books it says that the BSII can be used to control servos,
motors or solenoids, as long as you use some protective circuitry to isolate
it from the stamps pin. But it doesn't give any examples of what is needed
to do this. I'm working on a project in which I'm currently using servos (I
had the examples for servo circuits). Most of what I'm using them for is
simple latch releases. I would love to switch over to using solenoids for
this, but don't know how to properly hook them up. I haven't bought any yet
but I was thinking of getting some from All Electronics
(www.allelectronics.com), cat #SOL-61, 8V (6-8V) 16 ohm coil.
If someone could show me how to hook one of these up it would help a lot.
Also in the books I have noticed that the BSII can send X10 signals. It
does say that you have to buy a special adapter from X10 that plugs into the
wall, and you run phone cord from it to the stamp. I really would like the
ability to use the X10 system, but I need it to be wireless. I have thought
of using 2 BSII with the RX/TX modules but the cost just doesn't justify the
effect. But I was thinking today... X10 has a wireless transmitter that
plugs into the serial port of the computer (from the firecracker kit). I
was wondering if I plugged this into the stamp, if it would work? I think
there is a strong possibility it would. Although, it may not be able to use
the actual X10 command from the stamp, I may have to just send the command
as a serial out communication. X10 has, on their web site (www.x10.com),
the spec for writing the code for communication with this transmitter.
Since the transmitter is powered by the port on the PC, can it be powered by
the port on the X10? Has anyone tried this? What is your opinion of
whether or not it will work?
Thanks for everything!
Shawn
extensive background in programming...
2 Questions...
I've have a BSII (with the Board of Education) and have read the manual
v1.9, the full stamps in class book, and the full robotics book. In almost
everyone of these books it says that the BSII can be used to control servos,
motors or solenoids, as long as you use some protective circuitry to isolate
it from the stamps pin. But it doesn't give any examples of what is needed
to do this. I'm working on a project in which I'm currently using servos (I
had the examples for servo circuits). Most of what I'm using them for is
simple latch releases. I would love to switch over to using solenoids for
this, but don't know how to properly hook them up. I haven't bought any yet
but I was thinking of getting some from All Electronics
(www.allelectronics.com), cat #SOL-61, 8V (6-8V) 16 ohm coil.
If someone could show me how to hook one of these up it would help a lot.
Also in the books I have noticed that the BSII can send X10 signals. It
does say that you have to buy a special adapter from X10 that plugs into the
wall, and you run phone cord from it to the stamp. I really would like the
ability to use the X10 system, but I need it to be wireless. I have thought
of using 2 BSII with the RX/TX modules but the cost just doesn't justify the
effect. But I was thinking today... X10 has a wireless transmitter that
plugs into the serial port of the computer (from the firecracker kit). I
was wondering if I plugged this into the stamp, if it would work? I think
there is a strong possibility it would. Although, it may not be able to use
the actual X10 command from the stamp, I may have to just send the command
as a serial out communication. X10 has, on their web site (www.x10.com),
the spec for writing the code for communication with this transmitter.
Since the transmitter is powered by the port on the PC, can it be powered by
the port on the X10? Has anyone tried this? What is your opinion of
whether or not it will work?
Thanks for everything!
Shawn
Comments
A simple way to drive a solenoid is to use a logic-level mosfet and
protection diode. Your solenoid will draw ~ 0.5 amp. An IRL510 hexfet and
a 1N4001 diode should work fine. Both parts are available from Digikey,
(and elsewhere). Ground the fet source, connect a 470 to 1K 1/8 watt
resistor from Stamp pin to fet gate. Connect one solenoid lead to +8 volts,
and the other lead to fet drain. Connect the diode across the solenoid,
cathode to +8V side. Don't forget to connect the 8 volt supply negative to
Stamp gnd. When the Stamp pin is high, the solenoid will be energized.
Many users omit the resistor, but the resistor provides some protection to
the Stamp as well as inhibiting oscillations of the fet. I know nothing
about the X10 stuff.
Good luck,
Ray McArthur
> I've have a BSII (with the Board of Education) and have read the manual
> v1.9, the full stamps in class book, and the full robotics book. In
almost
> everyone of these books it says that the BSII can be used to control
servos,
> motors or solenoids, as long as you use some protective circuitry to
isolate
> it from the stamps pin. But it doesn't give any examples of what is
needed
> to do this. I'm working on a project in which I'm currently using servos
(I
> had the examples for servo circuits). Most of what I'm using them for is
> simple latch releases. I would love to switch over to using solenoids for
> this, but don't know how to properly hook them up. I haven't bought any
yet
> but I was thinking of getting some from All Electronics
> (www.allelectronics.com), cat #SOL-61, 8V (6-8V) 16 ohm coil.
>
> If someone could show me how to hook one of these up it would help a lot.
>
got clobbered by all the recent viruses.
Anyway, I've been studying the data sheet for the IRF640 Hexfet Power MOSfet
for some time now and don't quite get it, if anyone can explain it in terms
of a transistor it might help. It looks the gate controls it, but there is
not too much info about the gate on the data sheets, what I gather so far is
that I apply 4 to 6 volts to the gate I should be able to control 200 volts
at 18 amps, but I can't figure out how much current should be applied to the
gate.
I was thinking about controlling a pretty good sized solenoid with it.
Also, in taking apart other's power controlling electronic boxes I've
noticed that some run the wires right across the heat sinks on these power
mosfets, and the wire looks a little burnt, they're black where they touch
the heat sink. Is this acceptable wiring procedure or is it just a sign the
devices has been over loaded?
Thank you,
Mark
Original Message
From: rjmca <rjmca@w...>
To: basicstamps@egroups.com <basicstamps@egroups.com>
Date: Friday, July 07, 2000 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Solenoids and X10
>Shawn:
>A simple way to drive a solenoid is to use a logic-level mosfet and
>protection diode. Your solenoid will draw ~ 0.5 amp. An IRL510 hexfet and
>a 1N4001 diode should work fine. Both parts are available from Digikey,
>(and elsewhere). Ground the fet source, connect a 470 to 1K 1/8 watt
>resistor from Stamp pin to fet gate. Connect one solenoid lead to +8
volts,
>and the other lead to fet drain. Connect the diode across the solenoid,
>cathode to +8V side. Don't forget to connect the 8 volt supply negative to
>Stamp gnd. When the Stamp pin is high, the solenoid will be energized.
>Many users omit the resistor, but the resistor provides some protection to
>the Stamp as well as inhibiting oscillations of the fet. I know nothing
>about the X10 stuff.
>
>Good luck,
>Ray McArthur
>
>> I've have a BSII (with the Board of Education) and have read the manual
>> v1.9, the full stamps in class book, and the full robotics book. In
>almost
>> everyone of these books it says that the BSII can be used to control
>servos,
>> motors or solenoids, as long as you use some protective circuitry to
>isolate
>> it from the stamps pin. But it doesn't give any examples of what is
>needed
>> to do this. I'm working on a project in which I'm currently using servos
>(I
>> had the examples for servo circuits). Most of what I'm using them for is
>> simple latch releases. I would love to switch over to using solenoids
for
>> this, but don't know how to properly hook them up. I haven't bought any
>yet
>> but I was thinking of getting some from All Electronics
>> (www.allelectronics.com), cat #SOL-61, 8V (6-8V) 16 ohm coil.
>>
>> If someone could show me how to hook one of these up it would help a lot.
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Shawn
Original Message
From: rjmca [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=f14Vi36HH0GzV4i3uV1bpdfk6bIOBZ_49b9GL-dFH2A3kVf6equTB_1TJvbr5sV_v70Ixb2HgV9zd1w]rjmca@w...[/url
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 12:16 PM
To: basicstamps@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Solenoids and X10
Shawn:
A simple way to drive a solenoid is to use a logic-level mosfet and
protection diode. Your solenoid will draw ~ 0.5 amp. An IRL510 hexfet and
a 1N4001 diode should work fine. Both parts are available from Digikey,
(and elsewhere). Ground the fet source, connect a 470 to 1K 1/8 watt
resistor from Stamp pin to fet gate. Connect one solenoid lead to +8 volts,
and the other lead to fet drain. Connect the diode across the solenoid,
cathode to +8V side. Don't forget to connect the 8 volt supply negative to
Stamp gnd. When the Stamp pin is high, the solenoid will be energized.
Many users omit the resistor, but the resistor provides some protection to
the Stamp as well as inhibiting oscillations of the fet. I know nothing
about the X10 stuff.
Good luck,
Ray McArthur
> I've have a BSII (with the Board of Education) and have read the manual
> v1.9, the full stamps in class book, and the full robotics book. In
almost
> everyone of these books it says that the BSII can be used to control
servos,
> motors or solenoids, as long as you use some protective circuitry to
isolate
> it from the stamps pin. But it doesn't give any examples of what is
needed
> to do this. I'm working on a project in which I'm currently using servos
(I
> had the examples for servo circuits). Most of what I'm using them for is
> simple latch releases. I would love to switch over to using solenoids for
> this, but don't know how to properly hook them up. I haven't bought any
yet
> but I was thinking of getting some from All Electronics
> (www.allelectronics.com), cat #SOL-61, 8V (6-8V) 16 ohm coil.
>
> If someone could show me how to hook one of these up it would help a lot.
>
The gate of that Mosfet looks essentially like a capacitor of ~2000 pf. For
low speed apps like solenoid switching, you can regard it as an open
circuit. Mosfets are turned on by the gate-source voltage, not current,
i.e., "field-effect" devices. There is a good discussion in the May issue
of Nuts & Volts magazine by Ray Marston. They have online archives. What
voltage and current does your solenoid need? The IRF640 data sheet
indicates that you need at least 7 volts on the gate for good turn-on at
even a few amps. This means that you probably should not count on driving
it directly from a Stamp pin unless drain current is below 2 amps; with 10
volts on the gate, it can easily switch 10 amps. The logic-level Mosfets
are better suited for direct Stamp control.
Don't be misled by the 200V/18 amp rating. It means that the device can
withstand 200V if the current is not too high. Likewise, it can conduct 18
amps if the voltage is not too high. The allowable drain voltage/current
combinations are determined by power calculations.
It is not good practice to run wires across a hot heat sink. If the heat
sink got hot enough to burn insulation, I would suspect that the device was
overstressed or inadequately cooled.
Hope this long-winded mail is useful,
Ray McArthur
> Anyway, I've been studying the data sheet for the IRF640 Hexfet Power
MOSfet
> for some time now and don't quite get it, if anyone can explain it in
terms
> of a transistor it might help. It looks the gate controls it, but there is
> not too much info about the gate on the data sheets, what I gather so far
is
> that I apply 4 to 6 volts to the gate I should be able to control 200
volts
> at 18 amps, but I can't figure out how much current should be applied to
the
> gate.
..snip..
>But I was thinking today... X10 has a wireless transmitter that
>plugs into the serial port of the computer (from the firecracker kit). I
>was wondering if I plugged this into the stamp, if it would work? I think
>there is a strong possibility it would. Although, it may not be able to use
>the actual X10 command from the stamp, I may have to just send the command
>as a serial out communication. X10 has, on their web site (www.x10.com),
>the spec for writing the code for communication with this transmitter.
>Since the transmitter is powered by the port on the PC, can it be powered by
>the port on the X10? Has anyone tried this? What is your opinion of
>whether or not it will work?
>
>
>Thanks for everything!
>
>Shawn
>
Shawn:
It certainly will work if you choose to go this way. The firecracker
module will work just fine off Stamp logic voltages. In fact, it probably
prefers them as I've heard that the processor inside is a PIC. I have
sample code at http://www.erols.com/scarfone/firecrck.bs2. I am currently
seeking more of these cool toys as they are by far the cheapest and easiest
way I've found to do wireless X-10 from Stamps/PICs.
Good luck.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
73 de KG4EXY
I don't think you could ever be too long winded, at least in your replies to
me
Original Message
From: rjmca <rjmca@w...>
To: basicstamps@egroups.com <basicstamps@egroups.com>
Date: Friday, July 07, 2000 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Solenoids and X10
>Mark:
>The gate of that Mosfet looks essentially like a capacitor of ~2000 pf.
For
>low speed apps like solenoid switching, you can regard it as an open
>circuit. Mosfets are turned on by the gate-source voltage, not current,
>i.e., "field-effect" devices. There is a good discussion in the May issue
>of Nuts & Volts magazine by Ray Marston. They have online archives. What
>voltage and current does your solenoid need? The IRF640 data sheet
>indicates that you need at least 7 volts on the gate for good turn-on at
>even a few amps. This means that you probably should not count on driving
>it directly from a Stamp pin unless drain current is below 2 amps; with 10
>volts on the gate, it can easily switch 10 amps. The logic-level Mosfets
>are better suited for direct Stamp control.
>
>Don't be misled by the 200V/18 amp rating. It means that the device can
>withstand 200V if the current is not too high. Likewise, it can conduct 18
>amps if the voltage is not too high. The allowable drain voltage/current
>combinations are determined by power calculations.
>
>It is not good practice to run wires across a hot heat sink. If the heat
>sink got hot enough to burn insulation, I would suspect that the device was
>overstressed or inadequately cooled.
>
>Hope this long-winded mail is useful,
>Ray McArthur
>
>> Anyway, I've been studying the data sheet for the IRF640 Hexfet Power
>MOSfet
>> for some time now and don't quite get it, if anyone can explain it in
>terms
>> of a transistor it might help. It looks the gate controls it, but there
is
>> not too much info about the gate on the data sheets, what I gather so far
>is
>> that I apply 4 to 6 volts to the gate I should be able to control 200
>volts
>> at 18 amps, but I can't figure out how much current should be applied to
>the
>> gate.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I don't think you could ever be too long winded in your replies, at least to
me.
I think I understand these things pretty good now, at least enough to be
dangerous, as they say.
I haven't picked out a solenoid yet, I figure once I get the electronics
straight, choosing the solenoid is the easy part. Actually my pipe dream is
to replace an air cylinder with a solenoid. I've never made any automation
equipment but who knows, anyway air cylinders are so very (ear hurting)
noisy and this is becoming a very big issue on the shop floor that I'm
thinking solenoids will be the future.
At any rate, couldn't I run the IR640 with the Zetex 455?
Whilst my email was down, I got a neat little air solenoid working in
conjunction with the Zetex 455, Humpheys p/n: H010E1-1 air valve, 25 bucks,
for 0-100 psi, very small, a little bit smaller than an engineering eraser,
2 hz max, you can use hook up stuff from PISCO (that is one neato catalog),
what's really interesting are their vacuum generators, they run off 0 to 100
air (shop air).
Thanks again!
Mark
Original Message
From: rjmca <rjmca@w...>
To: basicstamps@egroups.com <basicstamps@egroups.com>
Date: Friday, July 07, 2000 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Solenoids and X10
>Mark:
>The gate of that Mosfet looks essentially like a capacitor of ~2000 pf.
For
>low speed apps like solenoid switching, you can regard it as an open
>circuit. Mosfets are turned on by the gate-source voltage, not current,
>i.e., "field-effect" devices. There is a good discussion in the May issue
>of Nuts & Volts magazine by Ray Marston. They have online archives. What
>voltage and current does your solenoid need? The IRF640 data sheet
>indicates that you need at least 7 volts on the gate for good turn-on at
>even a few amps. This means that you probably should not count on driving
>it directly from a Stamp pin unless drain current is below 2 amps; with 10
>volts on the gate, it can easily switch 10 amps. The logic-level Mosfets
>are better suited for direct Stamp control.
>
>Don't be misled by the 200V/18 amp rating. It means that the device can
>withstand 200V if the current is not too high. Likewise, it can conduct 18
>amps if the voltage is not too high. The allowable drain voltage/current
>combinations are determined by power calculations.
>
>It is not good practice to run wires across a hot heat sink. If the heat
>sink got hot enough to burn insulation, I would suspect that the device was
>overstressed or inadequately cooled.
>
>Hope this long-winded mail is useful,
>Ray McArthur
>
>> Anyway, I've been studying the data sheet for the IRF640 Hexfet Power
>MOSfet
>> for some time now and don't quite get it, if anyone can explain it in
>terms
>> of a transistor it might help. It looks the gate controls it, but there
is
>> not too much info about the gate on the data sheets, what I gather so far
>is
>> that I apply 4 to 6 volts to the gate I should be able to control 200
>volts
>> at 18 amps, but I can't figure out how much current should be applied to
>the
>> gate.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At any rate, couldn't I run the IR640 with the Zetex 455?
You sure could, but a cheap old 2N2219 or 2222 would suffice.
Regards,
Ray McArthur
>Hi Ray:
>
>I don't think you could ever be too long winded in your replies, at least to
>me.
>
>I think I understand these things pretty good now, at least enough to be
>dangerous, as they say.
>
>I haven't picked out a solenoid yet, I figure once I get the electronics
>straight, choosing the solenoid is the easy part. Actually my pipe dream is
>to replace an air cylinder with a solenoid. I've never made any automation
>equipment but who knows, anyway air cylinders are so very (ear hurting)
>noisy and this is becoming a very big issue on the shop floor that I'm
>thinking solenoids will be the future.
>
>At any rate, couldn't I run the IR640 with the Zetex 455?
Just for the record, there are many nice CMOS logic-level MOSFETs made
today. I suspect Tracy or Beau can mention some manufacturers.
>Whilst my email was down, I got a neat little air solenoid working in
>conjunction with the Zetex 455, Humpheys p/n: H010E1-1 air valve, 25 bucks,
>for 0-100 psi, very small, a little bit smaller than an engineering eraser,
>2 hz max, you can use hook up stuff from PISCO (that is one neato catalog),
You BET !
>what's really interesting are their vacuum generators, they run off 0 to 100
>air (shop air).
>
>Thanks again!
>
>Mark
Regards,
Bruce Bates