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Stamp controlled model boat — Parallax Forums

Stamp controlled model boat

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2000-04-30 14:53 in General Discussion
While staring into the icy waters of my pool, I was inspired to create a
really small controllable boat, or maybe several.. I am not very
knowledgeable in the area of acoustics, I know that sound travels better in
water, but I don't know to what extent frequency changes over distance, or
if it does. I know that temperature gradients effect sound. Here is what I
have in mind: A small boat with a hydrophone in the bottom. A stamp on
board reads a frequency from the hydro and responds accordingly, I am
thinking of using 4 frequncies to start with (Left,Right,Forward and
Reverse) maybe later include offsets of those 4 to get proportional control.
(Thats the beauty of the stamp) I thought of using DTMF, but would rather
use sounds that are not so audible. The range between the boat and
transmitter will always be less than 30 feet, the pool is only 7ft at the
deep end. The transmitter will also implement a stamp.

Please offer any thoughts or ideas on the concept. Specifically about the
sound thing.

Chris

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2000-04-30 04:15
    Chris,

    I just did an underwater project and am using RS-232. You can make it do
    anything you want using that. I'd skip the DTMF.

    The only thing that you have to worry about when doing this is turning the
    sound into digital information the stamp can read. To do this you need a
    data slicer arrangement using a comparator. Also you need a bandpass
    filter.

    On the transmitter side, you need to have a resonant transducer that you can
    pulse on and off accordingly to make up the RS-232.

    I've just outlined some basics.....but why not use RF ? Sounds to me like
    you are building a submarine [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    Better yet, take a swim in that pool and cool off [noparse]:)[/noparse] Isn't it summer time
    there yet?

    David


    Original Message
    From: Chris Parasida <parasida@r...>
    To: <basicstamps@egroups.com>
    Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 7:56 PM
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Stamp controlled model boat


    > While staring into the icy waters of my pool, I was inspired to create a
    > really small controllable boat, or maybe several.. I am not very
    > knowledgeable in the area of acoustics, I know that sound travels better
    in
    > water, but I don't know to what extent frequency changes over distance, or
    > if it does. I know that temperature gradients effect sound. Here is what
    I
    > have in mind: A small boat with a hydrophone in the bottom. A stamp on
    > board reads a frequency from the hydro and responds accordingly, I am
    > thinking of using 4 frequncies to start with (Left,Right,Forward and
    > Reverse) maybe later include offsets of those 4 to get proportional
    control.
    > (Thats the beauty of the stamp) I thought of using DTMF, but would rather
    > use sounds that are not so audible. The range between the boat and
    > transmitter will always be less than 30 feet, the pool is only 7ft at the
    > deep end. The transmitter will also implement a stamp.
    >
    > Please offer any thoughts or ideas on the concept. Specifically about the
    > sound thing.
    >
    > Chris
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2000-04-30 14:01
    Dave, what frequencies did you use for your rs232, and what baud rate did
    you manage to get. What I learn from doing the sound based communication
    will be used later in a submersible robot. I always try to build projects
    that I can use for other projects.

    On your project, did you find that your receiver passed the same frequency
    that you sent? For example; If your RS232 transmittion was modulated at
    15khz, was your band pass filter set up to pass the same frequency?

    R/C Cars and Planes using RF is one of my other hobbies. By the time I get
    all the necessary parts for RF into the boat, it will be too big and cost
    too much. I have plenty of Stamps and I can use PICs once it works with the
    stamp.

    I live in Rochester New York, and at this time of year, the night time
    temps are around 40°f and days are getting near 60°f. My hand goes numb if
    I put it in the water for more than a few seconds. So I am guessing that it
    is still too cold for a swim. [noparse];)[/noparse]


    Original Message
    From: David Covick [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=Gf2tecUvO6-CvK2mjP83J-uGvEgl505LeJpHiNKoneK2iDOCUw0ZtozXwZqQk6fAGpRwclVR]dac@w...[/url
    Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 11:16 PM
    To: basicstamps@egroups.com
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Stamp controlled model boat


    Chris,

    I just did an underwater project and am using RS-232. You can make it do
    anything you want using that. I'd skip the DTMF.

    The only thing that you have to worry about when doing this is turning the
    sound into digital information the stamp can read. To do this you need a
    data slicer arrangement using a comparator. Also you need a bandpass
    filter.

    On the transmitter side, you need to have a resonant transducer that you can
    pulse on and off accordingly to make up the RS-232.

    I've just outlined some basics.....but why not use RF ? Sounds to me like
    you are building a submarine [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    Better yet, take a swim in that pool and cool off [noparse]:)[/noparse] Isn't it summer time
    there yet?

    David


    Original Message
    From: Chris Parasida <parasida@r...>
    To: <basicstamps@egroups.com>
    Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 7:56 PM
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Stamp controlled model boat


    > While staring into the icy waters of my pool, I was inspired to create a
    > really small controllable boat, or maybe several.. I am not very
    > knowledgeable in the area of acoustics, I know that sound travels better
    in
    > water, but I don't know to what extent frequency changes over distance, or
    > if it does. I know that temperature gradients effect sound. Here is what
    I
    > have in mind: A small boat with a hydrophone in the bottom. A stamp on
    > board reads a frequency from the hydro and responds accordingly, I am
    > thinking of using 4 frequncies to start with (Left,Right,Forward and
    > Reverse) maybe later include offsets of those 4 to get proportional
    control.
    > (Thats the beauty of the stamp) I thought of using DTMF, but would rather
    > use sounds that are not so audible. The range between the boat and
    > transmitter will always be less than 30 feet, the pool is only 7ft at the
    > deep end. The transmitter will also implement a stamp.
    >
    > Please offer any thoughts or ideas on the concept. Specifically about the
    > sound thing.
    >
    > Chris
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2000-04-30 14:53
    Chris,

    The frequency has to be the mechanical resonance of the transmitting
    transducer. This can be just about anything.....in my case it was about
    39 kHz. What I did was program a PIC 12C671 to operate at this frequency
    while it monitored one other pins for its high or low state. The 12C671 has
    a built in 4 MHz oscillator. This was its only function. Then the stamp
    sends RS-232 to the 12C671. I calculated that the maximum baud rate I could
    get away with was 2400 baud....to be safe I am running it at 1200
    baud...which is plenty fast for most simple control situations.
    I also built a high power amplifier for running the transducer that includes
    a resonant impedance matched transformer and mosfet switcher and driver.

    The receiver needs a 39 kHz bandpass filter because, just like RF, there is
    a lot
    of noise in the ocean from boats, mammals, etc.........and the intermittent
    noise can't be
    interfering with the data, which is not the most important...but the fact
    that it can "block" the data from your receiver totally.

    I designed the bandpass filter using SPICE and the pass band is about 7 kHz
    at -3db.

    This system works for 100+ meters. My depth requirement is less than this.

    The parts for this may be not any lighter/smaller than a RF system.

    New York.....ahhhhh, this is the temp reason [noparse]:)[/noparse]
    You may have to invest in a wet suit so you can play with your submersible
    [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    David


    Original Message
    From: Chris Parasida <parasida@r...>
    To: <basicstamps@egroups.com>
    Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 6:01 AM
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Stamp controlled model boat


    > Dave, what frequencies did you use for your rs232, and what baud rate did
    > you manage to get. What I learn from doing the sound based communication
    > will be used later in a submersible robot. I always try to build projects
    > that I can use for other projects.
    >
    > On your project, did you find that your receiver passed the same frequency
    > that you sent? For example; If your RS232 transmittion was modulated at
    > 15khz, was your band pass filter set up to pass the same frequency?
    >
    > R/C Cars and Planes using RF is one of my other hobbies. By the time I
    get
    > all the necessary parts for RF into the boat, it will be too big and cost
    > too much. I have plenty of Stamps and I can use PICs once it works with
    the
    > stamp.
    >
    > I live in Rochester New York, and at this time of year, the night time
    > temps are around 40°f and days are getting near 60°f. My hand goes numb
    if
    > I put it in the water for more than a few seconds. So I am guessing that
    it
    > is still too cold for a swim. [noparse];)[/noparse]
    >
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: David Covick [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=36-lTuuP7DCy9sRsUAmsMleWrXjDEEmjICKQ2zv4bZwBdu1dUPdFT6Qp1u6SmZzxy15-zvw]dac@w...[/url
    > Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 11:16 PM
    > To: basicstamps@egroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Stamp controlled model boat
    >
    >
    > Chris,
    >
    > I just did an underwater project and am using RS-232. You can make it do
    > anything you want using that. I'd skip the DTMF.
    >
    > The only thing that you have to worry about when doing this is turning the
    > sound into digital information the stamp can read. To do this you need a
    > data slicer arrangement using a comparator. Also you need a bandpass
    > filter.
    >
    > On the transmitter side, you need to have a resonant transducer that you
    can
    > pulse on and off accordingly to make up the RS-232.
    >
    > I've just outlined some basics.....but why not use RF ? Sounds to me like
    > you are building a submarine [noparse]:)[/noparse]
    >
    > Better yet, take a swim in that pool and cool off [noparse]:)[/noparse] Isn't it summer time
    > there yet?
    >
    > David
    >
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: Chris Parasida <parasida@r...>
    > To: <basicstamps@egroups.com>
    > Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 7:56 PM
    > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Stamp controlled model boat
    >
    >
    > > While staring into the icy waters of my pool, I was inspired to create a
    > > really small controllable boat, or maybe several.. I am not very
    > > knowledgeable in the area of acoustics, I know that sound travels better
    > in
    > > water, but I don't know to what extent frequency changes over distance,
    or
    > > if it does. I know that temperature gradients effect sound. Here is
    what
    > I
    > > have in mind: A small boat with a hydrophone in the bottom. A stamp on
    > > board reads a frequency from the hydro and responds accordingly, I am
    > > thinking of using 4 frequncies to start with (Left,Right,Forward and
    > > Reverse) maybe later include offsets of those 4 to get proportional
    > control.
    > > (Thats the beauty of the stamp) I thought of using DTMF, but would
    rather
    > > use sounds that are not so audible. The range between the boat and
    > > transmitter will always be less than 30 feet, the pool is only 7ft at
    the
    > > deep end. The transmitter will also implement a stamp.
    > >
    > > Please offer any thoughts or ideas on the concept. Specifically about
    the
    > > sound thing.
    > >
    > > Chris
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
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