Solar/battery bell : defeat
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Posts: 46,084
Dear Stamp list,
Well... I admit defeat; I am taking Premena's earlier solution. Both due
to time pressures and a reluctant belief in the K.I.S.S. method I am
ditching the solar power option and embracing the telephone wire suggestion.
I am going to use the SN75176 chip to communicate and use the cable to
supply power to a system that relies on a 6V battery and the LT1121CS8 power
regulator... I have never used telephone wire to feed power (over long
distances)... what should I know? Do I simply, like, run DC power over a
cable? say 12 volts? How many amps?
Castle Bell
bell
sound detector 100 meters servo 100 meters
power supply
slave I
etc, etc, etc
'master stamp' battery
o
o
\ |
Where each slave: \ o
o |
6.9v \ | | 6V battery
12+ o----LT1121
o
o | |
| __|__ | | |
cable | _______ | | === | |
+ ________| | |--Vdd-| B | 4.7 uF | |
A ---
|SN75176|----0-| S | | | |
B
|_______|----1-| 2 | | | |
_
| | |-2
servo BELL |
| | /--atn-|_____| | | |
| | \ | | | |
| | /3Kohm | | | |
| | | | | | |
12- o
o--o
o
o | |
/ \ | |
/ o
o |
/ |
o
o
I am keeping Tracy Allen's wise and helpful 'star' configuration to help
avoid resets created by the servo, although it may be over-kill as the
battery should always be at full power now that it has a steady supply of
power.
I hope this works! The last two weeks have been a real solar panel hell!
Yours Truly
Paul
Paul Ramirez Jonas
451 Broome Street #9W
New York NY 10013
Tel/fax 212.941.9941
Mobile 917.744.2530
email prjnyc@m...
>From: s premena <premzee@j...>
>To: prjnyc@M...
>Subject: Solar/battery bell issues.1
>Date: Thu, Mar 9, 2000, 06:16 PM
>
>Hi Paul, I really like your 'into the distance bell'
>project and am going to make some "radical" suggestions
>for actualization.
>
>Consider using _telephone wire strung between bell_ locations.
>This could carry both power and ringing instructions. Either
>2 wire or more... with this setup you can have batteries
>and regulators at each bell and charge them from the
>wires in between ringing times.
>
>Complications from radio frequency interference become
>less and you only need one power supply and control station
>with each bell location as a slave. Naturally it depends on
>terrain as to the practicality of the telephone wire - main
>problems are usually lightning and tree falls. These are
>also to be considered with individual solar power supplies.
>The voltage and current on the wires is not dangerous in
>this setup. [noparse][[/noparse]low current for long time - batteries handling
>the high current rings]. Copper weld telephone wire is
>pretty cheap and durable; probably leave it on the ground
>for the winter [noparse][[/noparse]depends on circumstances...].
>
>Another thought. _Use less bells, perhaps 3_, and adjust
>ringing stroke and timing to simulate fading along a line.
>This would take some adjustment but would sound pretty
>good except for wind effects which would be hard to
>duplicate but most people wouldn't discern.
>
>Depending on how programmable you want the bell sequences
>you can likely just do it with delay timers not needing
>a micro controller. You can make some complicated timers
>just using 555s or LM3914s with feedback from its outputs.
>
>If you use a 2 wire system [noparse][[/noparse]either RF linked or hard wired]
>and can control both strike time and intensity of strike from
>one location this will greatly facilitate fine tuning the
>sounds you want rather than fixing the sound in each
>unit [noparse][[/noparse]it gets pretty tiring walking 1/2 mile to tune up
>the end unit! :-) ].
>
>If you haven't seen the I2C protocol for two wire stuff you
>might find that useful.
>
>One of my favorite sounds is the "han" which is a carved
>wooden 'gong' hit with a mallet. I called them 'toks' before
>I knew their proper name as that's the sound. In practice
>two hans are used with some distance between and one is hit
>and then the other answers some time later. As time gets
>closer to call people to gather the hit and echo are closer
>and closer together. A very beautiful and communicative effect.
>
>I hope these comments are useful rather than confusing and
>hope your project works - it sounds [noparse][[/noparse]<g>] wonderful.
>
>Best wishes with it, premena
>
>________________________________________________________________
>YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
>Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
>Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
Well... I admit defeat; I am taking Premena's earlier solution. Both due
to time pressures and a reluctant belief in the K.I.S.S. method I am
ditching the solar power option and embracing the telephone wire suggestion.
I am going to use the SN75176 chip to communicate and use the cable to
supply power to a system that relies on a 6V battery and the LT1121CS8 power
regulator... I have never used telephone wire to feed power (over long
distances)... what should I know? Do I simply, like, run DC power over a
cable? say 12 volts? How many amps?
Castle Bell
bell
sound detector 100 meters servo 100 meters
power supply
slave I
etc, etc, etc
'master stamp' battery
o
o
\ |
Where each slave: \ o
o |
6.9v \ | | 6V battery
12+ o----LT1121
o
o | |
| __|__ | | |
cable | _______ | | === | |
+ ________| | |--Vdd-| B | 4.7 uF | |
A ---
|SN75176|----0-| S | | | |
B
|_______|----1-| 2 | | | |
_
| | |-2
servo BELL |
| | /--atn-|_____| | | |
| | \ | | | |
| | /3Kohm | | | |
| | | | | | |
12- o
o--o
o
o | |
/ \ | |
/ o
o |
/ |
o
o
I am keeping Tracy Allen's wise and helpful 'star' configuration to help
avoid resets created by the servo, although it may be over-kill as the
battery should always be at full power now that it has a steady supply of
power.
I hope this works! The last two weeks have been a real solar panel hell!
Yours Truly
Paul
Paul Ramirez Jonas
451 Broome Street #9W
New York NY 10013
Tel/fax 212.941.9941
Mobile 917.744.2530
email prjnyc@m...
>From: s premena <premzee@j...>
>To: prjnyc@M...
>Subject: Solar/battery bell issues.1
>Date: Thu, Mar 9, 2000, 06:16 PM
>
>Hi Paul, I really like your 'into the distance bell'
>project and am going to make some "radical" suggestions
>for actualization.
>
>Consider using _telephone wire strung between bell_ locations.
>This could carry both power and ringing instructions. Either
>2 wire or more... with this setup you can have batteries
>and regulators at each bell and charge them from the
>wires in between ringing times.
>
>Complications from radio frequency interference become
>less and you only need one power supply and control station
>with each bell location as a slave. Naturally it depends on
>terrain as to the practicality of the telephone wire - main
>problems are usually lightning and tree falls. These are
>also to be considered with individual solar power supplies.
>The voltage and current on the wires is not dangerous in
>this setup. [noparse][[/noparse]low current for long time - batteries handling
>the high current rings]. Copper weld telephone wire is
>pretty cheap and durable; probably leave it on the ground
>for the winter [noparse][[/noparse]depends on circumstances...].
>
>Another thought. _Use less bells, perhaps 3_, and adjust
>ringing stroke and timing to simulate fading along a line.
>This would take some adjustment but would sound pretty
>good except for wind effects which would be hard to
>duplicate but most people wouldn't discern.
>
>Depending on how programmable you want the bell sequences
>you can likely just do it with delay timers not needing
>a micro controller. You can make some complicated timers
>just using 555s or LM3914s with feedback from its outputs.
>
>If you use a 2 wire system [noparse][[/noparse]either RF linked or hard wired]
>and can control both strike time and intensity of strike from
>one location this will greatly facilitate fine tuning the
>sounds you want rather than fixing the sound in each
>unit [noparse][[/noparse]it gets pretty tiring walking 1/2 mile to tune up
>the end unit! :-) ].
>
>If you haven't seen the I2C protocol for two wire stuff you
>might find that useful.
>
>One of my favorite sounds is the "han" which is a carved
>wooden 'gong' hit with a mallet. I called them 'toks' before
>I knew their proper name as that's the sound. In practice
>two hans are used with some distance between and one is hit
>and then the other answers some time later. As time gets
>closer to call people to gather the hit and echo are closer
>and closer together. A very beautiful and communicative effect.
>
>I hope these comments are useful rather than confusing and
>hope your project works - it sounds [noparse][[/noparse]<g>] wonderful.
>
>Best wishes with it, premena
>
>________________________________________________________________
>YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
>Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
>Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
Comments
>Dear Stamp list,
>
>Well... I admit defeat; I am taking Premena's earlier solution. Both due
>to time pressures and a reluctant belief in the K.I.S.S. method I am
>ditching the solar power option and embracing the telephone wire suggestion.
> I am going to use the SN75176 chip to communicate and use the cable to
>supply power to a system that relies on a 6V battery and the LT1121CS8 power
>regulator... I have never used telephone wire to feed power (over long
>distances)... what should I know? Do I simply, like, run DC power over a
>cable? say 12 volts? How many amps?
Just some random thoughts -
SKIP DC all together - too much line loss. I'd look at ~48 volts AC at the
head
end although in telephone use the ring voltage DO exceed that. Generally
(true) telephone wire is rated at 48 volts for NEC [noparse][[/noparse]US regulatory body]
purposes - more
than anything else. If you can find 18 gauge {AWG all] stranded or solid
inexpensively, GREAT. Otherwise 24/26 gauge will probably have to do. The
larger
the gauge (smaller gauge numbers) the greater the current you can safely pass
through it.
At the load end use a 6 x 1 (line:load) transformer and a full wave bridge
for approx. 6.5 volts DC or so at the load end. A 3-leg DC regulator can be
used
to adjust your final voltages.
Make sure the capacity of the transformer exceeds any load you will put on
it, and
fuse the primaries AND secondaries, as well. The secondary current limiting
is a
load consideration, and the primary current limiting is a fire
consideration - in
case the windings should happen to short out. In all cases, do not exceed the
capacity of the transmission line ("telephone wire"). 18 gauge can safely
be used
at 3-5 amps, and smaller gauges only smaller currents. Thus, my
recommendation for
18 gauge wire.
With the 6:1 reduction in line voltage at the transformer, you will enjoy a
1:6 increase in ampacity on the load side. Thus 1 amp at 48 volts at the
head end will
net approx. 6 amps at ~6.5 amps at the load side. I have just guessed at
the copper
voltage drop, but measurment will dictate the actual results. All math done
quickly
in my head, and is thus imperfect and approximate.
Have fun !
Regards,
Bruce